Gotta say IL2 is nice in VR...but get the right kind of VR!

[seafireliv]

I wasn`t a big fan of the idea of VR, but decided to try it a while back. Made the mistake of getting the Vive VR. Despite my research it`s surprising how mute people can be about something when they don`t want to admit it`s not quite as good as it sounds. Now Vive is `kinda` good the very first time you try it, but even then you notice the problems with the visuals. It`s like being a short-sighted guy who forgot his glasses in a dream. Not good enough in my view.

 

I got a friend to try it and first thing he said never having tried VR before was,, "Why is it so blurry?" This was after I set his pd and all.

 

I would say if you want a good Vr for the price, get the Rift S. Don`t worry about sound, use your own headphones, oh and make sure your pd isn`t too low.

 

The Rift S is what I expected the VIVE to be in clarity. I can honestly say that it is now, VR is begionning to come into it`s own and is finally worth it for flight simming... although with some caveats. Getting into an I16 and flying is finally superlative! Taking off and landing seems easier too.

[Toots_LeGuerre]

Thank you for the advice.

I'm saving my pennies.

[R3animate]

8 hours ago, seafireliv said:

I wasn`t a big fan of the idea of VR, but decided to try it a while back. Made the mistake of getting the Vive VR. Despite my research it`s surprising how mute people can be about something when they don`t want to admit it`s not quite as good as it sounds. Now Vive is `kinda` good the very first time you try it, but even then you notice the problems with the visuals. It`s like being a short-sighted guy who forgot his glasses in a dream. Not good enough in my view.

 

I got a friend to try it and first thing he said never having tried VR before was,, "Why is it so blurry?" This was after I set his pd and all.

 

I would say if you want a good Vr for the price, get the Rift S. Don`t worry about sound, use your own headphones, oh and make sure your pd isn`t too low.

 

The Rift S is what I expected the VIVE to be in clarity. I can honestly say that it is now, VR is begionning to come into it`s own and is finally worth it for flight simming... although with some caveats. Getting into an I16 and flying is finally superlative! Taking off and landing seems easier too.

 

You're absolutely right -- the Rift S is significantly better than the gen1 Vive.... that being said, we're talking about a headset that's almost 3 years old vs a new one. The Odyssey+ is also a big contender. That being said... I'm just going to wait out the Index availability in Canada ;).

 

Edit; oh, and more importantly yes-- nothing beats VR for immersion. I pretty well only use the headset as often as I do because of IL-2. Even Elite Dangerous didn't keep me this interested for this long :).

Edited July 10, 2019 by R3animate

[40plus]

Valve index will replace my Vive when the time comes. For gen 1, Vive was king but it's definitely long in the tooth these days.

 

Can't bring myself to give money to Facebook so rift is permanently off the table.

21 minutes ago, R3animate said:

 

Edit; oh, and more importantly yes-- nothing beats VR for immersion. I pretty well only use the headset as often as I do because of IL-2. Even Elite Dangerous didn't keep me this interested for this long :).

 

 

100% agree with these statements too.

[-332FG-Buddy]

Lol I'll probably get laughed at but I sold my VIVE cause I liked using my PSVR (trinus) better

[simfan2015]

I would really love havoing the opportunity to even just for a while be able to test the new Primax 8K with IL-2.

I'm dreaming it to be an out-of-this-world (yet quite expensive) experience !

[seafireliv]

8 hours ago, pfrances said:

Valve index will replace my Vive when the time comes. For gen 1, Vive was king but it's definitely long in the tooth these days.

 

Can't bring myself to give money to Facebook so rift is permanently off the table.

 

 

100% agree with these statements too.

The original reason I went for the Vive over the Oculus was because I don`t like Facebook either! Thankfully, they don`t force you onto Facebook and I hope it remains that way, cos i`ll drop the Oculus if they do.

 

9 hours ago, R3animate said:

 

You're absolutely right -- the Rift S is significantly better than the gen1 Vive.... that being said, we're talking about a headset that's almost 3 years old vs a new one. The Odyssey+ is also a big contender. That being said... I'm just going to wait out the Index availability in Canada ;).

 

Edit; oh, and more importantly yes-- nothing beats VR for immersion. I pretty well only use the headset as often as I do because of IL-2. Even Elite Dangerous didn't keep me this interested for this long :).

 

I was late to the Vive, very late. But I`m still frankly shocked at just how bad the vision is.

3 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

I would really love havoing the opportunity to even just for a while be able to test the new Primax 8K with IL-2.

I'm dreaming it to be an out-of-this-world (yet quite expensive) experience !

I`d like the Pimax too. That fov and res is great. But I can see now that in about 5 years, these things will be smaller allow the same or greater fov, have better visuals and be even cheaper.

 

My only worry, is what will they require of us to use it? But perhaps I worry too much.

 

I appreciate all the comments.

Edited July 10, 2019 by seafireliv

[Herne]

I went from CV1 to Rift S. I found it to be a significant enough difference to make the upgrade worthwhile, but if you are dipping your toe into VR for IL2 I think from a value point of view it is currently unbeatable.

 

Having said that I know nothing about the mixed reality options and their price point. 

[danielprates]

17 hours ago, seafireliv said:

It`s like being a short-sighted guy who forgot his glasses in a dream

 

Lmao

[Georgio]

Over a year in with my CV1, still loving it and still can't see a worthwhile upgrade that would give me the same wow factor as the first 5 minutes in VR.

I know the Rift S would be a small upgrade, but I'll wait for that major upgrade...

[Wolferl_1791]

4 hours ago, Georgio said:

Over a year in with my CV1, still loving it and still can't see a worthwhile upgrade that would give me the same wow factor as the first 5 minutes in VR.

I know the Rift S would be a small upgrade, but I'll wait for that major upgrade...

 

Same here. My 3 year old computer and 3 year old Vive can still give me wow moments. Unfortunately, by the time the proper next generation of HMDs will come out, my PC will be 3+x years old. I have no doubt that my next HMD will have at least 4 times the number of pixels, the problem is "will my future PC be able to handle that"? I sincerely doubt it. 

[PatrickAWlson]

I currently have theRift CV1.  For me the only realistic option money wise would be the Rift S and I have trouble justifying the expenditure.

 

[Thad]

Salutations VR advocates.

 

I have been interested in, watching and reading about, the VR experience and equipment for years. I was and still am (but less) reluctant to go VR.

 

Why? 

 

I am a graphics whore. I simply will not sacrifice great game visuals for VR. I was determined to wait until VR equipment improved in the visual presentation aspect. 

 

I do not regret that decision. VR equipment performance has improved and it will probably continue to improve.

 

My computer is almost five years old now. I will seriously consider going VR when I purchase a new computer.

 

Thanks for all of your insights and comments. 

 

[PatrickAWlson]

@Thad My three (now 4) year old computer could not handle VR with a 960 graphics card.  I had to upgrade to 1080 to get something really good out of it.  I will also say that the resolution is nowhere near a high quality monitor (talking Rift CV1).  It would be hard for me to recommend a VR headset to you.

 

I would, however, recommend that you try it (after you upgrade your computer).  The Rift S is really only a few bucks more than my RIft CV1 and is definitely an upgrade.  That would probably be the most economical target.  If you have money to spare then check out the Primax andIndex.  If you don't like return it.  The implementation of VR in BoX is fantastic.  

[Thad]

Thanks Pat. 

[Izel]

On 7/9/2019 at 12:26 PM, seafireliv said:

 It`s like being a short-sighted guy who forgot his glasses in a dream. Not good enough in my view.

 

Lol! 

 

Sorry to spoil your analogy; being a  short-sighted guy and frequent lucid.dreamer, I can vouch that  shortsightedness is not carried to the dream world - In my dreams my sight is crystal clear.  =D

[RedeyeStorm]

The only thing to keep in mind with Rift S is your IPD. If yours falls within the great median of 63/64 you are golden with the Rift S. Mine is 70 so the Rift S would not work for me (my conclusion after reading posts on thos and other simforums and youtube video reviews). To bad for me.

[seafireliv]

1 hour ago, [Pb]RedeyeStorm said:

The only thing to keep in mind with Rift S is your IPD. If yours falls within the great median of 63/64 you are golden with the Rift S. Mine is 70 so the Rift S would not work for me (my conclusion after reading posts on thos and other simforums and youtube video reviews). To bad for me.

 

My PD is 65. Works perfect. Also I have worked in an opticians for some years. I personally measured many patients pds from children to adults.  The "great median of 63/64` "means nothing. Don`t listen to that. You are either 63 to 64 or not. Even if you`re slightly off your PD by one you`ll still see fine in most cases unless you`re very sensitive.  The pd goes from 58 to 72. If you fall within that you`re fine.

 

I personally don`t like the auto pd (it can be manually set in the software but still only goes from 58-72) because it doesn`t cater to very high or very low PDs. I have seen adults with 55 pd and those with higher than 75! It should be manual so all can use it, but I hear the way the lenses on the Rift S work is different.

Edited July 10, 2019 by seafireliv

[Herne]

3 hours ago, [Pb]RedeyeStorm said:

The only thing to keep in mind with Rift S is your IPD. If yours falls within the great median of 63/64 you are golden with the Rift S. Mine is 70 so the Rift S would not work for me (my conclusion after reading posts on thos and other simforums and youtube video reviews). To bad for me.

 

IPD 67 and its clear as a bell so to speak

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Herne

[=475FG=_DAWGER]

3 hours ago, seafireliv said:

 

My PD is 65. Works perfect. Also I have worked in an opticians for some years. I personally measured many patients pds from children to adults.  The "great median of 63/64` "means nothing. Don`t listen to that. You are either 63 to 64 or not. Even if you`re slightly off your PD by one you`ll still see fine in most cases unless you`re very sensitive.  The pd goes from 58 to 72. If you fall within that you`re fine.

 

I personally don`t like the auto pd (it can be manually set in the software but still only goes from 58-72) because it doesn`t cater to very high or very low PDs. I have seen adults with 55 pd and those with higher than 75! It should be manual so all can use it, but I hear the way the lenses on the Rift S work is different.

I am outside the 58 to 72 range and have no problems with my Rift S.

 

VR is fabulous. IL2 VR implementation, not so much. Not optimized by any stretch and the wonky cockpit limits are incredibly annoying.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

9 hours ago, =475FG=DAWGER said:

the wonky cockpit limits are incredibly annoying.

 

They were greatly improved in the German planes especially in the forward movement. I have not retested bombers recently but I am much happier with them now than how they used to be.

 

What problem are you still having with cockpit limits?

[dburne]

Fully agree on the Rift S. I think it often gets overlooked for some of the more expensive upcoming headsets.
 

I will say I was  very disappointed when Oculus revealed the Rift S and originally planned on not ordering it. Then temptation got me as it got

closer to release day and I placed order with Amazon - as I am Prime member knew I could return it within 30 days.

It turned out to be better than I had expected. I use Klipsch earbuds so the sound is very good for me.

Big bump in image clarity with same performance I was getting in Rift CV1. IL-2 is gorgeous with it. As are many of my other Oculus Touch games I enjoy.

Edited July 11, 2019 by dburne

[Trooper117]

I think the astronomic price of some of these things is a total rip off... if the developers of VR want the thing to really take off they should lower the bloody price range.

At the moment it's a gimmicky niche within a niche for people with money.

Did they truly think the masses would flock to it and be stupid enough to throw money at it?

I've got news for them... the 'masses' simply can't afford it. 

[Elem]

14 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

I've got news for them... the 'masses' simply can't afford it. 

Oh really?...

https://www.viar360.com/virtual-reality-market-size-2018/

[Trooper117]

Yes really... the biggest seller is for consoles. Do you play your flight simulators on play station then?

Perhaps I should have stated that I'm talking from a flight sim enthusiasts point of view... my bad.

And I do get it, VR users are all over it and won't be convinced to play or buy any other game that does not support VR, blah blah blah, we hear the same threat every other day in multiple threads.

But do tell me why, that as it's so astoundingly good why every swinging dick who is a flight sim junkie does not own one?

[Talon_]

31 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

I think the astronomic price of some of these things is a total rip off... if the developers of VR want the thing to really take off they should lower the bloody price range.

At the moment it's a gimmicky niche within a niche for people with money.

Did they truly think the masses would flock to it and be stupid enough to throw money at it?

I've got news for them... the 'masses' simply can't afford it. 

 

Rift S is cheaper than a new phone or TV, about the same price as two decent monitors which should really be the standard for any gaming PC. Same price as IL-2 BoM, BoS, BoK, BoBp and FC combined which I see you own.

 

4 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

 But do tell me why, that as it's so astoundingly good why every swinging dick who is a flight sim junkie does not own one?

 

My squad, Red Flight, run the Combat Box MP server and almost all of us fly in VR.

 

There's some argument to be made that VR makes you less competitive as you have to turn all the way around in your seat to check six and it can be harder to ID hostiles, however those of us who aren't into the IL-2 MLG scene much prefer the massively increased immersion and realism of sitting inside the plane in a 3D world over looking at our computer monitor like we were filling out a spreadsheet.

 

And for the detractors who say long range spotting and ID is impossible - this was my first sortie in the Rift S. Went up in multiplayer on KOTA and came back with 4 kills in 8 minutes.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Talon_

[PainGod85]

44 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

I think the astronomic price of some of these things is a total rip off... if the developers of VR want the thing to really take off they should lower the bloody price range.

At the moment it's a gimmicky niche within a niche for people with money.

Did they truly think the masses would flock to it and be stupid enough to throw money at it?

I've got news for them... the 'masses' simply can't afford it. 

 

I find it funny statements like these creep up in a time where you can get a perfectly viable set of VR goggles for 400€, but top of the line GPUs cost you considerably north of 1000€, with 'affordable' GPU prices still in the rage of 600€.

[Trooper117]

Oh my god, here we go... yes I own the flight sim stuff, guess what? I didn't buy them all at once, because I would not be able to afford to!

I can only afford one monitor, my pc is about 8 years old.

I don't own a new phone, or TV and never have done, I get my daughters hand me downs.

I have a low paid part time job, I'm retired as well...

Where on earth do you get it that just because I own all the games I should be able to afford everything 'as standard'...

 

As I said, VR at the moment is for people who have an adequate disposable income... Jesus!

[PainGod85]

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

I think the astronomic price of some of these things is a total rip off... if the developers of VR want the thing to really take off they should lower the bloody price range.

At the moment it's a gimmicky niche within a niche for people with money.

Did they truly think the masses would flock to it and be stupid enough to throw money at it?

I've got news for them... the 'masses' simply can't afford it. 

 

18 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

Oh my god, here we go... yes I own the flight sim stuff, guess what? I didn't buy them all at once, because I would not be able to afford to!

I can only afford one monitor, my pc is about 8 years old.

I don't own a new phone, or TV and never have done, I get my daughters hand me downs.

I have a low paid part time job, I'm retired as well...

Where on earth do you get it that just because I own all the games I should be able to afford everything 'as standard'...

 

As I said, VR at the moment is for people who have an adequate disposable income... Jesus!

 

Emphasis mine. I suppose I don't have to tell you 'people with money' implies something completely different than 'people who have an adequate disposable income'.

Nobody's arguing VR and its associated equipment requirements are 'cheap'. We're arguing it's affordable if you really want it.

Edited July 11, 2019 by PainGod85

[Talon_]

5 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

As I said, VR at the moment is for people who have an adequate disposable income... Jesus!

 

56 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

I've got news for them... the 'masses' simply can't afford it. 

 

Non-sequitur

[Trooper117]

As explained, I should have stated I was talking from a flight sim enthusiasts point of view... (you did read that didn't you?)

And again, can you answer why the majority of flight simmers do not own a VR set? (as it seems to be so affordable)

[Talon_]

1 minute ago, Trooper117 said:

As explained, I should have stated I was talking from a flight sim enthusiasts point of view... (you did read that didn't you?)

And again, can you answer why the majority of flight simmers do not own a VR set? (as it seems to be so affordable)

 

In my experience those who have a fast enough PC do. 80% of the quite extensive list of guys I fly with, do so in VR.

[Herne]

3 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

 

 

As I said, VR at the moment is for people who have an adequate disposable income... Jesus!

 

I think that is true for any hobby. 

Some flight simmers do go to some quite extraordinary lengths though to maximise their immersion. We've all seen some quite incredible sim pits, icarus 180 projectors and the like. When putting VR into this kind of context I find it to be extremely good value.

I think over time the tech will get better, and probably more affordable. I pre - ordered a virpil grip, extensions, and mounts with base recently. Crazy money just for a stick. Damn thing is costing in excess of 600 euros. I'm buying it for one reason only.  The DCS spit is a POS when flown with the saitek x55 and I'm hoping this virpil setup, can turn that around. I'll also use it for IL2, but I've always been quite happy with the x55 in IL2 to this point.

I justify the expense to myself, in that if I was not doing this, I would probably be scratching the itch with real world flying which as we all know, is Far more expensive, for far less hours of overall entertainment. In VR though, I find it to be very almost as satisfying. 

TLDR: VR put next to other FS gadgets, widgets, or peripherals, is I think pretty reasonable for the immersion it provides.

 

[=475FG=_DAWGER]

I was a flat earth guy a few years ago. I traveled all the time and flew online using a laptop connected to hotel TV's. I carried my HOTAS with me.

 

I retired from travelling for a living and decided to build a gaming PC.

 

After dropping $2500 into my Christmas present to myself I found myself wanting  $1500 monitor to really take advantage of my new machine. I was going to wait a few months to restock the play money kitty and take the plunge but I had a beautiful 4K machine connected to my 1080p TV.

 

VR seemed like a cheap way to play with my new toy until a new monitor was feasible.

 

Oculus CV1 changed my entire attitude. It was as close to real flying sensation as I had ever been in any simulation, including multi-million dollar full motion commercial simulators.

 

My first hop I did a low level split S in DCS and got the exact same feeling in the pit of my stomach that such a maneuver would generate in a real aircraft. Hooked ever since.

 

This is something that people without extensive flying experience in the real world don't quite get in VR. I find guys who did it for real find VR to be amazing. Guys who don't have the benefit of that comparison are not nearly as impressed with VR.

 

I now have 2 CV1's gathering dust and a Rift S I use every day and I still haven't equaled the $1500 I wanted to drop on a 4K monitor. My machine is still hooked up to the same 1080p TV.

 

The bottom line is that VR is CHEAPER than top of the line 4K if you choose one or the other. You need the same machine for either. A VR HMD is a relatively small percentage of the total outlay for a modern, high power gaming rig.

[BlueHeron]

I was only able to justify getting the Rift S because I quickly sold my CV1 for a good price.

 

However, CV1 always felt borderline unacceptable to me because of heavy screen door effect making everything look kind of obscured.  This is so drastically improved with Rift S that I'm finally enjoying VR without reservation and it feels great!  The only thing I dislike about Rift S is it doesn't work in a dark room, so no flying after the Missus goes to bed.

 

BTW, my IPD is 67 and I get excellent clarity.

[Stoopy]

7 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

I think the astronomic price of some of these things is a total rip off... if the developers of VR want the thing to really take off they should lower the bloody price range.

At the moment it's a gimmicky niche within a niche for people with money.

Did they truly think the masses would flock to it and be stupid enough to throw money at it?

I've got news for them... the 'masses' simply can't afford it. 

 

Yeah! And this whole "Rock and Roll" thing these crazy kids are into these days, is nothing but a FAD!!!!

?

[Talon_]

4 hours ago, BlueHeron said:

I was only able to justify getting the Rift S because I quickly sold my CV1 for a good price.

 

However, CV1 always felt borderline unacceptable to me because of heavy screen door effect making everything look kind of obscured.  This is so drastically improved with Rift S that I'm finally enjoying VR without reservation and it feels great!  The only thing I dislike about Rift S is it doesn't work in a dark room, so no flying after the Missus goes to bed.

 

BTW, my IPD is 67 and I get excellent clarity.

 

You can hook up a cheap IR lamp to throw light around the room and it'll work in total visible light darkness ?

[BlueHeron]

49 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

You can hook up a cheap IR lamp to throw light around the room and it'll work in total visible light darkness ?

 

On it, but they're surprisingly hard to find.  Ordered one on amazon, but it will take a month to arrive from China!

[Karost]

my first VR is pimax4k that was suck the next one is htc vive  and I mod lens  and l lucky it is better then standard.

I looking for a next gen VR  in next 10 months ( saving budget )  I like to share my advice to the one who going to buy your first VR 

when you research to find your right VR ....  Do not believe video  that capture from monitor  try to search video that capture

direct from VR lens  and  compare  from difference source. 

I like this guy he nail it  ...

 

 

here is from my htc vive mod lens   which still not perfect to spot  a  dot in distance.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Karost

[DD_Arthur]

Thats pretty impressive Karost

 

Is there a zoom function fir VR in DCS?  If so, I haven't found it yet