Albatros D.Va overheating message and engine failure

[J2_Jakob]

I've been flying the Albatros D.Va extensively lately and one thing bugs me. In combat, I have been running mostly full throttle and rad fully open, dogfighting the Camels/Dolphins on the deck, so you know the drill - mostly low speed scissors, gain speed for a few seconds, then again - some form of low speed evasion, prophanging etc. 

I'm keeping an eye on the thermometer and it's looking good - about 70 - 80° C.

Suddenly I get technochat message 'engine overheating'! (The in-game thermometer is still well below the red line!) If I continue running full throttle for a few more minutes and throw the crate about in the same manner, the technochat will eventually say 'engine damaged' and immediately after that the engine stops dead with 'engine failure' message.

 

So I tried to test this further in QM. Right after take-off I forced the Albie into a tight climbing turn almost at stall-speed and held it there for some time to somehow simulate the low-speed conditions of a prolonged dogfight.

Speed: ~70km/h

Temp: 80° C

At ~5 minutes the technochat 'overheating' message pops up.

At ~7 minutes the RPM needle starts spiking.

At ~11 minutes the engine conks out. Final altitude: 500m, temp: 86° C. No steam coming out whatsoever.

 

Maybe it's something for Mr. @AnPetrovich to look at?

[Cacodemon96]

While flying Albie I think I got engine overheat messega around 60-70C. That really bugged be, because in ROF such overheating wasn't the case. When I was introducing my friend to ROF couple months ago I forgot to mention radiator and he was flying for good 10 minutes with rads closed.

[J2_Bidu]

I confirm the same strange behavior.

[Raptorattacker]

Me too. The self - same thing happened with me in a late - night Quick Mission last night. I thought it was just me being a bit tired and forgetting to do something so I broke off from the fight, opened the rad wide (100%) and brought the throttle right down and drifted for a while. The temp warning went away and I got back into the thick of it again and just left the rad where it was and  seemed to be okay. NO overheating symptoms of billowing and disturbing looking smoke though...

[6FG_Big_Al]

I can confirm the same thing. I played with her on the tank map and after some time I had constant overheating warnings. The only way to avoid it was to throttle back.  
Good thing I'm not the only one, I thought it would be so and i´m just too stupid to fly this bird.

 

[BMA_West]

Same here from the first day trying to play target for the SE5 guys.

Had to land on their airfield so got me a glass or 2 of their wine )))

[JG1_Vonrd]

Same / same

[J2_Trupobaw]

Same

[BMA_Hellbender]

On 6/22/2019 at 12:11 AM, J2_Jakob said:

So I tried to test this further in QM. Right after take-off I forced the Albie into a tight climbing turn almost at stall-speed and held it there for some time to somehow simulate the low-speed conditions of a prolonged dogfight.

Speed: ~70km/h

Temp: 80° C

At ~5 minutes the technochat 'overheating' message pops up.

At ~7 minutes the RPM needle starts spiking.

At ~11 minutes the engine conks out. Final altitude: 500m, temp: 86° C. No steam coming out whatsoever.

 

Maybe it's something for Mr. @AnPetrovich to look at?

 

As we discussed over private messages (I was out this weekend and couldn't do any further tests), my theory is that it's some leftover code from 1.034 which expects the Albatros' IAS at sea level to be around 180km/h. Since the engine is not getting the same airflow, even with radiator full open, it overheats.

 

Or I could be completely wrong and it was like that before 1.034 and I just don't remember it correctly.

[SP1969]

Did the Albatros have an issue with oil surge?

 

I have no technical knowledge in regard to the engine, but I do recall that back in the days of hillclimbing a Mini with a bored out and supercharged A series, I had a  baffle and pickup pipe added to stop this happening.

 

It strikes me that the symptoms described would be the same - the damage is caused when the surge takes place - such as when undertaking a high g turn, but only becomes terminal shortly afterwards.

 

Total guess. 

[BMA_West]

8 hours ago, J5_Hellbender said:

…..

Or I could be completely wrong and it was like that before 1.034 and I just don't remember it correctly.

 

You remember the ROF Alb D Va right Bender, there was not such a problem before the 1.034 patch;

 

Just funny no testers are chiming in on this?

Edited June 24, 2019 by West

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

1 hour ago, J5_Hellbender said:

 

Or I could be completely wrong and it was like that before 1.034 and I just don't remember it correctly.

 

The only plane I experienced this with pre patch was the Brandenburg.

[J2_Jakob]

 

[J2_Trupobaw]

[kramer]

On 6/22/2019 at 12:11 AM, J2_Jakob said:

I've been flying the Albatros D.Va extensively lately and one thing bugs me. In combat, I have been running mostly full throttle and rad fully open, dogfighting the Camels/Dolphins on the deck, so you know the drill - mostly low speed scissors, gain speed for a few seconds, then again - some form of low speed evasion, prophanging etc. 

I'm keeping an eye on the thermometer and it's looking good - about 70 - 80° C.

Suddenly I get technochat message 'engine overheating'! (The in-game thermometer is still well below the red line!) If I continue running full throttle for a few more minutes and throw the crate about in the same manner, the technochat will eventually say 'engine damaged' and immediately after that the engine stops dead with 'engine failure' message.

 

So I tried to test this further in QM. Right after take-off I forced the Albie into a tight climbing turn almost at stall-speed and held it there for some time to somehow simulate the low-speed conditions of a prolonged dogfight.

Speed: ~70km/h

Temp: 80° C

At ~5 minutes the technochat 'overheating' message pops up.

At ~7 minutes the RPM needle starts spiking.

At ~11 minutes the engine conks out. Final altitude: 500m, temp: 86° C. No steam coming out whatsoever.

 

It's sad how this whole /technochat/ grew into the game. In RoF we just looked at thermometers or steam and everyone was ok. Now it is gamey. What is the point of looking at the steam or even taking thermometer on board if there is this chat.

Thanks for investigating the issue @J2_Jakob

[BMA_Hellbender]

48 minutes ago, kramer said:

What is the point of looking at the steam or even taking thermometer on board if there is this chat.

 

It’s a staple of the IL-2 games, no way around it. I’d prefer more technochat for the WWI planes in order to match the WWII planes, to be honest, especially for the engine start sequence.

[US103_Baer]

Can technochat be turned off by server operators? It's so arcadey

[kramer]

8 minutes ago, US103_Baer said:

Can technochat be turned off by server operators? It's so arcadey

 

Especially in RoF servers there was nothing like that and people were happy estimating their parameters by in cockpit gauges, radiator steam, airplane bahaviour, thermometers and so on. And all the systems were the same. At least there should be an option for the more realistic servers. In this one particular regard FC is a step back from RoF.

[J2_Trupobaw]

That's simply not true. In RoF there was plenty of HUD elements giving state of throttles, mixture levers, radiators, altitude throttle etc that's missing from BOX and replaced by technochat.

(Not to mention all these people using vision-blocking head mounted displays - mercifully absent in RoF. A chat saying what was the button  you've blindly hit must be very helpful when you can't see controls through monitor on your face).

Edited July 2, 2019 by J2_Trupobaw

[US103_Baer]

4 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

That's simply not true. In RoF there was plenty of HUD elements giving state of throttles, mixture levers, radiators, altitude throttle etc that's missing from BOX and replaced by technochat.
 

 

Right but server ops can turn them off for 'expert' servers. Proved a good solution didn't it?

[J2_Trupobaw]

No, they cannot. You can turn off the speed/RPM HUD gauges in ROF, but not throttle / mixture / radiator position / compass gauges. Exactly like what we have in BoX.

Edited July 2, 2019 by J2_Trupobaw

[kramer]

55 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Exactly like what we have in BoX.

 

Exactly like we have in BoX?

So what indicated engine overheating in RoF realistic servers? Cockpit thermometer and steam coming from the radiator. No artificial help.

 

And what indicates engine overheating in FC?  "Engine Overheat" arcade message...

So it was not exactly like we have in BoX. Unfortunately. No need to care about gauges in FC. In fact thermometer only makes you heavier in FC, no  point having it.

 

And RoF's throttle / mixture / radiator position were and are ok for people without good controlers. They are not arcade cheats. Artificial helpers like engine overheat, engine damage, running out of fuel, not optimal mixture, cooling system or oil system hit, elevator damaged, gun overheat and so on. What is even the point of this helpers in realistic servers?

[6FG_Big_Al]

Of course you can fly without everything. Just disable the Interface (default "i") and the HuD (default "h") and you can fly without any indication/warning or percentage.

[TG-55Panthercules]

1 hour ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

No, they cannot. You can turn off the speed/RPM HUD gauges in ROF, but not throttle / mixture / radiator position / compass gauges. Exactly like what we have in BoX.

 

I don't understand this comment.  I never used any HUD gauges in RoF, so I'm sure it must be possible to turn them off in RoF (not sure if the servers can force them off in MP, as I never played much MP except during beta testing, but the player could certainly turn them off on their own screens).  Are we saying that the technochat crap can't be turned off by the players in FC now?  (I'm away from my RoF/BoX PC and can't check ATM).

[303_Bies]

In russian forum devs wrote they want to get rid of mandatory technochat eventually. I don't have the quote. Throttle, mix, rpm positions are not cheats. The helpers added after RoF with damages, overheatings fuel state and so on, they should be an option for server admin.

[J2_Trupobaw]

2 minutes ago, kramer said:

 

And RoF's throttle / mixture / radiator position were and are ok for people without good controlers. They are not arcade cheats. Artificial helpers like engine overheat, engine damage, running out of fuel, not optimal mixture, cooling system or oil system hit, elevator damaged, gun overheat and so on. What is even the point of this helpers in realistic servers?

The point is, they come in the same package at throttle/mixture/radiator position. Which can't be turned off server-side. And which are necessary because out of two cthrottle quadrants on the market, Saitek is spiking crap where, after you apply the zones, positions of physical levers tell you nothing of position of in-cockpit levers, and CH levers have so short throw you can't tell much from their positions.

[303_Bies]

5 minutes ago, TG-55Panthercules said:

 

I don't understand this comment.  I never used any HUD gauges in RoF, so I'm sure it must be possible to turn them off in RoF (not sure if the servers can force them off in MP, as I never played much MP except during beta testing, but the player could certainly turn them off on their own screens).  Are we saying that the technochat crap can't be turned off by the players in FC now?  (I'm away from my RoF/BoX PC and can't check ATM).

 

At this moment full technochat with all helpers is available in every server and server admins can't restrict it, even partially. And some of them, i.e. TAW admins want to disable technochat in their servers but they are not able to do that.

 

I've made a topic about this sitation in Suggestions:

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Bies

[TG-55Panthercules]

29 minutes ago, Bies said:

 

At this moment full technochat with all helpers is available in every server and server admins can't restrict it, even partially. And some of them, i.e. TAW admins want to disable technochat in their servers but they are not able to do that.

 

Ahhh - thanks - now I understand this discussion is about server-side options for MP.  As long as the player can decide not to use them, I'm fine (I wouldn't use them in MP even if the servers allowed them, but that's just me). I think it would be nice for server operators to have that option, but since I don't really do MP I'll bow out and let those with more MP knowledge and interest duke it out here.

Edited July 2, 2019 by TG-55Panthercules

[J2_Trupobaw]

I agree with Bies that technochat should be split into controls feedback "what is my throttle set to?" which should be always on,  and plane feedback ("Adjust your mixture") which should be controllable by server ops.

With multitude of planes and doubled controls, plane feedback is useful simply to see what controls the planee your friends dregged you into has. I'm always moving all levers and checking technochat in new plane to see which levers do anything (how many readiators do I have, and are thy lever controlled or 110 style?).

Edited July 2, 2019 by J2_Trupobaw

[zwarteeend]

Yes, control instruments positions like throttle or mixture can stay, they don't give me an advantage.

 

But helpers overheats and similar, which were absent in Rise of Flight, have to be regulated by server because they are not realistic and provide immense advantage in fight and awareness.

[J2_Trupobaw]

In RoF overheat control was done via regular (non techno) chat... "How do I start my engine" and "Albie, radiator" are probably two most often used phrases there.

[zwarteeend]

Yes, this interaction was awesome.

[J2_Bidu]

4 hours ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

In RoF overheat control was done via regular (non techno) chat... "How do I start my engine" and "Albie, radiator" are probably two most often used phrases there.

 

The third probably being "Press B"...

 

Well, I always thought most guys smoking their albies around might not see that there is a chat and/or didn't speak english.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

18 hours ago, J2_Bidu said:

 

The third probably being "Press B"...

 

 

I have a little familiarity with this.

[Field-Ops]

Could be a better modeling of thermodynamics on different parts of the engine? I mean the Fw190 in BoX also has a temp gauge that will tell you that you are within normal operating range but the cylinder heads might actually be hotter than normal. Without there being a thermometer directly on the cylinder heads the only signs of an overheat are slight fluctuation in the RPM gauge (you also get overhead warning if you have technochat messages on). You can lower throttle to save the engine as damage does not occur unless you remain in that state for about a minute. Once RPM's return to normal you can push your engine again. usually it happens when you are at high throttle settings but maintain a low airspeed. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Field-Ops

[J2_Bidu]

42 minutes ago, Field-Ops said:

Could be a better modeling of thermodynamics on different parts of the engine? I mean the Fw190 in BoX also has a temp gauge that will tell you that you are within normal operating range but the cylinder heads might actually be hotter than normal. Without there being a thermometer directly on the cylinder heads the only signs of an overheat are slight fluctuation in the RPM gauge (you also get overhead warning if you have technochat messages on). You can lower throttle to save the engine as damage does not occur unless you remain in that state for about a minute. Once RPM's return to normal you can push your engine again. usually it happens when you are at high throttle settings but maintain a low airspeed. 

 

Whatever it is it's happening in DVa alone, and killing it. Something must be done...

[J2_Jakob]

Whatever it is, it's happening even when flying level at top speed, no need to be in a low speed / high RPM configuration.

 

Albie simply won't fly at full throttle below 500m for more than 10 minutes.

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

5 hours ago, J2_Jakob said:

Albie simply won't fly at full throttle below 500m for more than 10 minutes.

 

Is it a bug or possibly related to this......

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by J5_Baeumer

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

After overheat I was unable to cool down Alb DV  , the thermometer temp was below red line , there were no steam ,just techno chat warning message and after some time it ended in engine seizure.

[J2_Jakob]

2 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

After overheat I was unable to cool down Alb DV  , the thermometer temp was below red line , there were no steam ,just techno chat warning message and after some time it ended in engine seizure.

 

I am able to cool it down everytime. Usually going for 1200 RPM (around "80%" throttle) while flying level. The techno-chat message goes away after cca 1 minute of flying in this configuration. Try it...

 

 

6 hours ago, J5_Baeumer said:

Is it a bug or possibly related to this......

 

I don't know. I am not technically savvy when it comes to engines of any kind. ?‍♂️

What I tested yesterday was flying at 250m, straight and level, full throttle, fully open rad, with max. time compression, over Stalingrad summer map. No other aircraft in FC shows this behaviour. You can fly them all "balls to the wall" for 15 minutes without a problem. The Albie being the only exception. Whether flying @ full throttle all the time is historical or not I'll leave to the experts to judge. (I have my doubts there, but who am I to say...)

I only want consistent behaviour. Let all overheat or fix the Alb. That's all.