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Game version 3.101 discussion: Me 262 A, T-34-76 UVZ 1943, Albatros D.Va, S.E.5a

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3 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

what is the gas temperature?

gas temperature was zero and after Shift E rapidly rised ro red level and engines started to burn.

I will try again when I have time.

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8 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

I tried that and the engines strarted to burn

 

Was your throttle at idle?

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1 minute ago, Jansgi said:

 

Was your throttle at idle?

yes

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13 hours ago, 325TH_SPEKTRE76 said:

Failed to Update 4x already.

 

That happened to me a few times in the past. After multiple attempts, I realized that my firewall was blocking the updater. An odd one as it had updated previously with zero issues and the updater had been white-listed in my firewall. Worth a check anyhow, if you haven't already done so.

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You must have to be within the windmill start envelope to be able to airstart successfully. They said something about below 3000 meters I think.

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2 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Gielow said:

You must have to be within the windmill start envelope to be able to airstart successfully. They said something about below 3000 meters I think.

I was at 1-2K alt

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3 minutes ago, pfrances said:

 

After playing last night I have to say the VR issue with the propeller and motion-smoothing has not been fixed for me.

 

It appeared to be OK at first but when I fire the guns in the Albatross the issue still exists. In fact I think I'm seeing more artifacts like that in game now. It's still early and I need to do more tests but I was getting the same shimmering effect on things like wheel spokes and such.

 

HTC Vive, 1080ti

 

As you know, the reprojection feature basically injects additional frames to increase overall smoothness. However, it can't predict for the rotating motion, only a linear one. Therefore it works great for objects moving across the field of view and not changing their direction much, but not the ones that move in a more complex way like rotating. Rotating objects cause visual artifacts because the inserted frames are wrong for them.

 

The only sure ways to get rid of this are either to disable reprojection (not possible for everyone because of increased hardware demands) or get rid of high-contrast fast rotating objects, as most VR games do. Problem is, the propellers are exactly such objects - darker blades moving against the brighter sky. So we have minimized the visual artifacts in most cases, but in some of them, they might still be visible depending on the lighting, propeller speed and framerate.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

yes

Just for clarification, throttle must be at cut off position (0%), not idle (which would be 15%).

 

Restarting should work fine with throttle at 0% and when below 4000 meters and while flying around 300 kph. Then slowly increase throttle to idle (15%), then stop injecting. Temperatures might still be a bit high at first, but the engines shouldn't start burning.

Edited by Matt

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40 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

Thats how its in CloD, and it gets boring realy fast, if they decide to go for more manual key pressing i hope they have sence and have E as automatic start, and other manual keys (where some other key then E start engine) at same time available on any difficulty, so player then can select if he wonts to do manual start for 467th time, or just use E and wait for automatic, no need for separating this by diff settings so players who like game of pressing keys can play on same server with players who like to just flying game.

 

For now what they did is not so dramatic, but i dont like the way it goes, on lagg i need to start with E and go 100% mix and then ~15-25% trottle and it will start, for Spit9 or P-47 i just need to press E and go 100% mix, didnt try rest... why is this adition nessecary i dont know is me moving mix to 100% after pressing E somehow more imerseve then just pressing E, lol no its just one more unneccesary thing i now need to do before i can take of, and when i do 100+ sorties per month ill fast get frustrated with this uneccesary adition, and i have no options as server is deciding what starting method i should use

 

 

Well if you do 100+ sorties per month then this indicates that you don't fly in a very realistic manner anyways which means that you  are going to fly on less realistic servers in which case this feature shouldn't concern you much!

 

And if this "complex" starting procedure scares off people who fly 100+ missions I guess this is a plus for every server that try to model proper air war ;)

No offense,

cheers

 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, JG4_Sputnik said:

 

 

Well if you do 100+ sorties per month then this indicates that you don't fly in a very realistic manner anyways which means that you  are going to fly on less realistic servers in which case this feature shouldn't concern you much!

 

And if this "complex" starting procedure scares off people who fly 100+ missions I guess this is a plus for every server that try to model proper air war ;)

No offense,

cheers

 

 

 

 

 

LFMAO

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30 minutes ago, Sneaksie said:

 

As you know, the reprojection feature basically injects additional frames to increase overall smoothness. However, it can't predict for the rotating motion, only a linear one. Therefore it works great for objects moving across the field of view and not changing their direction much, but not the ones that move in a more complex way like rotating. Rotating objects cause visual artifacts because the inserted frames are wrong for them.

 

The only sure ways to get rid of this are either to disable reprojection (not possible for everyone because of increased hardware demands) or get rid of high-contrast fast rotating objects, as most VR games do. Problem is, the propellers are exactly such objects - darker blades moving against the brighter sky. So we have minimized the visual artifacts in most cases, but in some of them, they might still be visible depending on the lighting, propeller speed and framerate.

 

Thanks for the explanation Sneaksie. I'll fiddle with my settings and see if I can improve it on my rig. I have enough horsepower to run without reprojection it's just slightly smoother with it enabled.

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Bump:

22 hours ago, DerSheriff said:

21. AI guns and tanks aim in a more realistic way, there is a slight fire delay after aiming and before re-engaging;

 

can you quickly elaborate on this?

is this only for tanks or is this for AI bomber gunners as well?

 

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3 hours ago, JG27_Kornezov said:

 

Now I will have according to you to make airplane procedures too. If some like it, others don't. The "E" key is perfectly fine. All those procedures are a huge time sink unless you are after fully simulated plane but then go to DCS.

No, we prefer this half way procedure and does not want to go on DCS. By the way, you can go to War Thunder, it is fine for you.

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1 minute ago, III./SG77-G_Feldges said:

Bump:

 

 

No, it is only for ground AI for now.

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22 minutes ago, JG4_Sputnik said:

 

 

Well if you do 100+ sorties per month then this indicates that you don't fly in a very realistic manner anyways which means that you  are going to fly on less realistic servers in which case this feature shouldn't concern you much!

 

And if this "complex" starting procedure scares off people who fly 100+ missions I guess this is a plus for every server that try to model proper air war ;)

No offense,

cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

Being at 7K with a Lagg and 23mm HE is not realistic even if he were to only fly 30 sorties a month 😅😅😅

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, CCG_Pips said:

No, we prefer this half way procedure and does not want to go on DCS. By the way, you can go to War Thunder, it is fine for you.

 

I am perfectly aware that some like as much procedures as they can get. But some including me do not like it. After doing that for 100 times it will become repetitive and boring. The best compromise is to make it a player made option not on server side. Everyone will be happy.
I flew War Thunder as well, I have some very good memories.

Edited by JG27_Kornezov
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1 hour ago, Voidhunger said:

gas temperature was zero and after Shift E rapidly rised ro red level and engines started to burn.

I will try again when I have time.

You have to watch the gas temperatures very carefully if the aircraft is not fitted with the fuel regulating value. Very small throttle increases until you get within a decent gas temperature range. Too much input on restart and the engines will just catch on fire.

  

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19 minutes ago, JG27_Kornezov said:

 

I am perfectly aware that some like as much procedures as they can get. But some including me do not like it. After doing that for 100 times it will become repetitive and boring. The best compromise is to make it a player made option not on server side. Everyone will be happy.
I flew War Thunder as well, I have some very good memories.

Regardless, it doesn't sound like its all that much different right now for most planes. The auto start pre-patch already moves the engine controls to the correct settings for you, meaning its not really a difference in time required at all. Its just that you have to move them rather than the computer. I don't think its really any more boring than pressing E, and probably doesn't take up that much more time. Now, if we have to do a full startup procedure, that gets ridiculous pretty quick. We'll all run out of keybinds and HOTAS settings really quickly, and its been stated over and over again that clickpits are not going to be a thing, so fully manual startups will remain pretty impractical.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, JG4_Sputnik said:

is me moving mix to 100% after pressing E somehow more imerseve then just pressing E

 

Well....yes. At least I would argue its more immersive, especially when it highlights some of the differences between airplanes and their operating procedures. But it is bores you, or perhaps you find it overly-tedious sure.

 

As for me, 3 seconds to adjust mixtures etc at the beginning of a sortie (where I may very well spend a half hour without seeing anyone) is easily worth it. 

Edited by Cpt_Cool
Original quote was CountZero btw, not Sputnik.

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2 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

You have to watch the gas temperatures very carefully if the aircraft is not fitted with the fuel regulating value. Very small throttle increases until you get within a decent gas temperature range. Too much input on restart and the engines will just catch on fire.

  

 

That's right.  You have to be very careful on air starts.  Even modern engines computers cannot handle the entire process. It would be great if someone has the jumo 004 air start envelope and limitations to share here. 

 

Screenshot_2019-06-11-15-38-07-1.png.030e4dfa713cdfa73b0df47130b934f7.png

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One more advance in this great simulator, -But in my opinion there is little progress for the virtual Reality, those of us who do it still ask for a higher zoom, which we only get with 3dmigoto a Mod ... and this is a job of the developers - Another point is the clouds, the contacts disappear when they are placed in front of the clouds. this is still not fixed ... and it is something that we suffer constantly.

 

- 1 insufficient VR

-1 Clouds error

+1 Me 262

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, TP_Silk said:

The trouble here is that we are now at the mercy of mp server admins with regard to what THEY want to see rather than what WE want to do

 

This should be a player option, not a server option.

If you don't want to play by the servers rules either join a different server or play by yourself. Shall we make GPS player selected as well? I loath having to actually look at the ground while I fly,  should be able to have GPS on regardless of server settings. See how nonsensical that is? This is the same arguments people the very few made against technochat being serverside which we are still waiting on. "I don't want the server to decide how I play the game". That's crap. If you don't want that then stick to singleplayer.

 

I say bring on more complicated engine starts, love the 262 startup.

Edited by JgonRedcorn

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I managed to get the beautiful Me262 one time in the air in a few hours trying. I love the whole manual start procedure but I am not a "gamer". I have spend a lot of time racing around the airfield to practice taxi (I am new to IL-2 and to planes, I started IL-2 with Tank Crew) All crashes where simply because I ran out of runway. The one time that worked was a runway that went suddenly down at the end. The plane dropped a bit but I could pull up gear fast enough and get the plane up before it hit the water. I loved it. It climbs very fast. What runways are long and flat enough ?

 

I love the improvements regarding the tanks. Can not wait so see more. Is there a chance we get more manual motor management some day (like manual shifting) and joystick aim ?

 

For me as a beginner (regarding planes) the hardest thing, and less sim-like, is the use of a keyboard and learn all those key combinations, is there any chance we get mouse controlled switches someday ? I already look at the switches/levers to see what they do if I use the keyboard, so it would save a lot of time if I could mouse operate them.  I then can use that time to do full manual control starts 😁. (and no, I do not need to go to DCS because I already have tried that, I prefer IL-2)

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1 hour ago, JgonRedcorn said:

If you don't want to play by the servers rules either join a different server or play by yourself...

 

Engine startups don't affect gameplay - just have the startup time the same period of time regardless of how you do it.  GPS and technochat do affect gameplay.  Not very good examples really.

 

For what its worth, in a mp server I'd rather have engine start simplified, GPS off and technochat disabled.  I'll live with it though, just like I live with TIR giving a big advantage etc etc etc.

 

von Tom

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@JgonRedcorn not the same thing at all and you know it. This game has been functioning perfectly fine without this up until now, so why would they change it? I respect that you have your opinion about start-up procedures, so how about you be civil and respect my view equally?

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Well done developers. What a huge accomplishment! The Schwalbe is such a beauty: the Citroën DS of airplanes!

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7 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

Thats how its in CloD, and it gets boring realy fast, if they decide to go for more manual key pressing i hope they have sence and have E as automatic start, and other manual keys (where some other key then E start engine) at same time available on any difficulty, so player then can select if he wonts to do manual start for 467th time, or just use E and wait for automatic, no need for separating this by diff settings so players who like game of pressing keys can play on same server with players who like to just flying game.

 

For now what they did is not so dramatic, but i dont like the way it goes, on lagg i need to start with E and go 100% mix and then ~15-25% trottle and it will start, for Spit9 or P-47 i just need to press E and go 100% mix, didnt try rest... why is this adition nessecary i dont know is me moving mix to 100% after pressing E somehow more imerseve then just pressing E, lol no its just one more unneccesary thing i now need to do before i can take of, and when i do 100+ sorties per month ill fast get frustrated with this uneccesary adition, and i have no options as server is deciding what starting method i should use

Completely agree.  I have limited time to fly, so added complexities which take more time are frustrating as hell.

2 hours ago, JgonRedcorn said:

If you don't want to play by the servers rules either join a different server or play by yourself. Shall we make GPS player selected as well? I loath having to actually look at the ground while I fly,  should be able to have GPS on regardless of server settings. See how nonsensical that is? This is the same arguments people the very few made against technochat being serverside which we are still waiting on. "I don't want the server to decide how I play the game". That's crap. If you don't want that then stick to singleplayer.

 

I say bring on more complicated engine starts, love the 262 startup.

All true.  Guess I'll have to ultimately give this sim a miss, leave it to all the geeks out there who like to pretend they are really flying, which of course, they are not.  Never mind, plenty more fish in the sea if that's the way to go.

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7 hours ago, Sneaksie said:

 

 As you know, the reprojection feature basically injects additional frames to increase overall smoothness. However, it can't predict for the rotating motion, only a linear one. Therefore it works great for objects moving across the field of view and not changing their direction much, but not the ones that move in a more complex way like rotating. Rotating objects cause visual artifacts because the inserted frames are wrong for them.

 

Many thanks for the explanation. I understand that this include all kind of "ASW and the like" technologies (Oculus ASW, Valve-SteamVR Motion Smoothing, Pimax Smart-Smoothing, etc)

 

Perhaps the reprojection term is not correctly used when we refer to ASW-like tech, but everybody use that term.

https://uploadvr.com/reprojection-explained/

 

I have just tested the Pimax5K+ with Smart-Smoothing and the propeller glitch is almost gone, although there are many other side effects around that make no worth to activate it. 

Perhaps Oculus ASW 2.0 works better.

Thank you anyway for looking at VR details. BTW: A bit more of Zoom in VR will be welcomed. 

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1 hour ago, remer said:

All true.  Guess I'll have to ultimately give this sim a miss, leave it to all the geeks out there who like to pretend they are really flying, which of course, they are not.  Never mind, plenty more fish in the sea if that's the way to go.

 

You're giving up a whole lot if you find it that hard to either use one of the options that allows for a simplified engine startup or simply just remembering to put mixture and rpm at 100% before engine start.

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16 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

You're giving up a whole lot if you find it that hard to either use one of the options that allows for a simplified engine startup or simply just remembering to put mixture and rpm at 100% before engine start.

I’m trying to figure out how people who use CEM find this to be a bridge too far? Draw the line at moving a lever before engine start rather than after I guess.

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19 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

You're giving up a whole lot if you find it that hard to either use one of the options that allows for a simplified engine startup or simply just remembering to put mixture and rpm at 100% before engine start.

 

Yep - that was quite a silly post by the R-man.

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11 hours ago, Sneaksie said:

 

70. All aircraft: when starting or shutting down the engine with all three difficulty options "Cruise control", "Throttle auto limit" and "Engine auto control" turned off you need to move the engine controls during the startup or shutdown procedure yourself;

 

Just enable either of these difficulty options and the startup is automatic.

Where does one find the above difficulty options? I have looked but have not had any success,

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2 hours ago, remer said:

All true.  Guess I'll have to ultimately give this sim a miss, leave it to all the geeks out there who like to pretend they are really flying, which of course, they are not.  Never mind, plenty more fish in the sea if that's the way to go.

Bye !! 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Taxman said:

Where does one find the above difficulty options? I have looked but have not had any success,

its in custom difficulty settings on right side, but if you play online on server then this is decided for you by server host so you cant do mutch there.

 

this type of changes done clearly by people who dont play online make me concerne for how air marshal will look or if it wil be of any use to MP guys when its done by SP guys, why not have key E as auto start on all settings and for ppl who like to press keys once a week when they bather to play this game have some other key for their manual engine starts, why make this conected to difficulty settings, is just poor judgment, it looks more like bug then new future

Edited by 77.CountZero
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Posted (edited)

Thanks 77.Count, got it figured out, thanks to your help I was looking in the wrong place☹️.

Edited by Taxman
Added text

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I had a lot of fun just sitting in the parking are trying to get the engines started.  Especially love the boomy ‘THRUM’ when a jumo ignites with my ‘subwoofer’ headphones.

 

The default RShift-E for the igniters made for some awkward finger-yoga while moving the throttle up, changed it to LShift-E and it made things much easier.  Don’t think there were ever any jets with a blip switch lol

 

Super fantastic job on the 262, thank you!  It was my first level2 model, painted the bottom gloss blue after seeing it was blue (should have been a vey light sky blue). Love flying around in it.  I think the FM feels just like a heavy, high wing loading twin engine swept plane would.  It is very nicely maneuverable at certain speeds, but pulling out of dives gets hairy sometimes! Especially love using it to bomb ships.  With the fold out gunsight trying to plant a couple of 250kg’s onto the deck of a ship, diving at high speed with a bunch of tracers flying by you get a definite star wars/death star trench run.w

 

I think the starting procedure is great.  I can see why the devs added it, as it was part of the development of the plane to make air starts possible.  I think the controls change is nice too, more like ROF and cancels confusion between actual and sim setting.  Have a starter engine to push (for wwi aircraft I wish we could one day finally have a guy pulling the prop and yelling ‘contact’) would be sufficient to me to make the startup feel ‘immersive.’. I don't see why they couldn't just allow people who really want to edit a text file or something to map all of the various in game switches and magnetos and valves since they’re already modeled, without cluttering up options, but I’d hate to have to memorize every single operation to start motors, it’s enough to do a few basic things and leave the rest to automation and technospeak with the ‘E’ key.

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14 hours ago, Sneaksie said:

 

As you know, the reprojection feature basically injects additional frames to increase overall smoothness. However, it can't predict for the rotating motion, only a linear one. Therefore it works great for objects moving across the field of view and not changing their direction much, but not the ones that move in a more complex way like rotating. Rotating objects cause visual artifacts because the inserted frames are wrong for them.

 

The only sure ways to get rid of this are either to disable reprojection (not possible for everyone because of increased hardware demands) or get rid of high-contrast fast rotating objects, as most VR games do. Problem is, the propellers are exactly such objects - darker blades moving against the brighter sky. So we have minimized the visual artifacts in most cases, but in some of them, they might still be visible depending on the lighting, propeller speed and framerate.

 

I wonder if the change in propeller contrast could be dependent on if the option "VR HMD" is selected? Because I rather miss this feature in the 2D screen where the prop was more visible. 

 

Just a suggestion. 

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17 hours ago, spartan85 said:

The new start up with the 262 had me a DCS feel to it :)    Not to compare but it felt like I had responsibilities for the ship.  I know the ground crew would be upset if I got it wrong.. 

Oh btw... what are the holes on the aft port side of the 262?   Is it ventilation for the radio??

I believe those are the flare tubes!

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