Cold starts

[Murleen]

Hi all,

 

Apologies for being quiet recently, have been mega busy. I have a little coding time available now, so I was wondering if anyone has tried out the cold start test build of PWCG, and if so, is there any feedback or are there any issues to look in to?

 

[Semor76]

Yup. Quoted myself here from another thread:

 

I did a fresh install of PWCG (the one with the cold start option) but cant create a new career.

 

"No service found for id=10102"

 

Error log is attached.

PWCGErrorLog(1).txt

Edited April 18, 2019 by Semor76

[RedeyeStorm]

Hello Murleen,

 

I haven't been able to try it but I like the idea.

[Murleen]

On 4/19/2019 at 12:29 AM, Semor76 said:

Yup. Quoted myself here from another thread:

 

I did a fresh install of PWCG (the one with the cold start option) but cant create a new career.

 

"No service found for id=10102"

 

Error log is attached.

PWCGErrorLog(1).txt 14.17 kB · 0 downloads

 

I think that's caused because the cold start exe is based off 5.0.5 of PWCG, and the data files are from 5.1.3.

 

Try this zip: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gE8kjaTHHrQ_yL9kKJ1XjyS7mRv814hy/view?usp=sharing

 

With a campaign, set the "Always air starts" option in "Mission Limits" under "Advanced Config" to 2 to enable the cold starts.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Murleen

[Semor76]

Thanks Murleen, but when I set Always air starts to on, I start in the air and not cold & dark on the ground.

[Murleen]

Sorry, missed out an important detail - set "Always Air Start" to 2

[spamRoast]

Hi @Murleen, I tried the cold start download that's at http://www.pwcampaignmanager.com/pwcgbos/web/PWCGBoS.php, but I got the same "No service found for id=10102" error above.

 

I then tried the link you added above, set my planes to all of them except the U2VS and Ju 52, set the "Always Air Start" option to 2, but when I click "Mission" I get an error saying "No payload for u2vs". I don't own that plane and have deselected it, so I'm not sure why I'm getting that error.

I was trying a campaign in Kuban with II./Sch.G.1.

I attached the error log. Any thoughts?

PS - I'm not sure if you're helping to code on PWCG, but it sounded like it from what you said in this thread. I'm familiar (enough) with Java if you need any hands.

PWCGErrorLog.txt

Edited April 21, 2019 by terrible_pilot

[PatrickAWlson]

FYI, I am deep into V6 at  this point, which is a major overhaul.  I would not put too much work into V5 modifications.  Murleen: if you want you can see the V6 branch.  Still very much a work in progress.

[spamRoast]

51 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

FYI, I am deep into V6 at  this point, which is a major overhaul.  I would not put too much work into V5 modifications.  Murleen: if you want you can see the V6 branch.  Still very much a work in progress.

Hi @PatrickAWlson, I just PM'd you about possibly helping out with PWCG. If you need the extra hands I'd love to help! But no problem if you've got all the help you need.

Edited April 21, 2019 by terrible_pilot

[Semor76]

Testet the C&D feature with a Stuka campaign. Unfortunately, all planes disappeard one by one after rolling to the runway threshold.

 

 

Stuka Land MissionAnalysis.txt

Edited April 22, 2019 by Semor76

[Murleen]

10 hours ago, Semor76 said:

Testet the C&D feature with a Stuka campaign. Unfortunately, all planes disappeard one by one after rolling to the runway threshold.

 

 

Stuka Land MissionAnalysis.txt 577 B · 2 downloads

 

That's really odd - can you post the .mission file?

20 hours ago, terrible_pilot said:

Hi @Murleen, I tried the cold start download that's at http://www.pwcampaignmanager.com/pwcgbos/web/PWCGBoS.php, but I got the same "No service found for id=10102" error above.

 

I then tried the link you added above, set my planes to all of them except the U2VS and Ju 52, set the "Always Air Start" option to 2, but when I click "Mission" I get an error saying "No payload for u2vs". I don't own that plane and have deselected it, so I'm not sure why I'm getting that error.

I was trying a campaign in Kuban with II./Sch.G.1.

I attached the error log. Any thoughts?

PS - I'm not sure if you're helping to code on PWCG, but it sounded like it from what you said in this thread. I'm familiar (enough) with Java if you need any hands.

PWCGErrorLog.txt 3.95 kB · 1 download

 

Looks like I still had the wrong data file version - I've updated the zip file now, try again: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gE8kjaTHHrQ_yL9kKJ1XjyS7mRv814hy

[spamRoast]

1 hour ago, Murleen said:

Looks like I still had the wrong data file version - I've updated the zip file now, try again: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gE8kjaTHHrQ_yL9kKJ1XjyS7mRv814hy

 

Thanks, @Murleen. I'll give that a shot next time I'm on.

Edited April 22, 2019 by terrible_pilot

[Semor76]

Thanks again Murleen. Will give it a go and report back asap.

 

Edit:

Now it works!  I used your test pilot for this. All Laggs are taxi crash free to the runway. You cant immagine the smile on my face. This is one of the best features for PWCG ever.

 

I will try other planes. Hope all goes well.

 

Cheers

Edited April 22, 2019 by Semor76

[Semor76]

@Murleen

 

Small suggestion: It´s possible to ad a delay between each AI engine start sequence?  Let´s say 3-5 seconds? It looks a bit weird if all AI´s fire up their engines at the same time.

[Columbar]

OMG!!! That´s PERFECT! 

On Anapa airfield with FW190 works perfectly!!! WAAAW!

 

That is big step forward in immersion. Thanks a lot! 

 

I am going to test another airplanes and airfields. 

 

again - thank you very much.

[PatrickAWlson]

@Murleen???

[Murleen]

10 hours ago, Semor76 said:

@Murleen

 

Small suggestion: It´s possible to ad a delay between each AI engine start sequence?  Let´s say 3-5 seconds? It looks a bit weird if all AI´s fire up their engines at the same time.

 

I don't think so - the AI start up when the leader is given a take off command, so they all start at the same time.

[Columbar]

One note:

 

It is quite difficult when you lead flight to find the way to begining of runway on grass airfields e.g. Krasnoarmyenskayas airfield on Kuban map. It happens that I have to followed my squad mates instead i lead them.  ?

Maybe more training will help ?

Edited April 25, 2019 by Columbar

[spamRoast]

1 hour ago, Columbar said:

One note:

 

It is quite difficult when you lead flight to find the way to begining of runway on grass airfields e.g. Krasnoarmyenskayas airfield on Kuban map. It happens that I have to followed my squad mates instead i lead them.  ?

Maybe more training will help ?

 

This probably won't be much help, but IIRC there was someone/somewhere/something on this forum (don't remember) that had a top down view of all the map's airfields so that you could navigate them. It was especially useful for MP I think, but it applies to this case too. I'm not sure where it is but you might be able to find it if you search the forum.

Edited April 25, 2019 by terrible_pilot

[Murleen]

15 hours ago, Columbar said:

One note:

 

It is quite difficult when you lead flight to find the way to begining of runway on grass airfields e.g. Krasnoarmyenskayas airfield on Kuban map. It happens that I have to followed my squad mates instead i lead them.  ?

Maybe more training will help ?

 

Agreed, it's a lot easier on paved runways where you can follow the taxiway. If anyone has any good suggestions on ways to make the taxi paths more obvious, I'm happy to give it a go.

[dburne]

Thought I might give the Cold Start version a try now.

I assume I will always need to be the flight lead for this to work properly?

[Semor76]

50 minutes ago, dburne said:

Thought I might give the Cold Start version a try now.

I assume I will always need to be the flight lead for this to work properly?

Nope. It works from every position. I never be the flight leader, I didn´t like it and the AI have no problems finding their way to the runway and line up correctly.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Semor76
typo(s)

[dburne]

1 minute ago, Semor76 said:

Nope. It works from every position. I never be the flight leader, I didn´t like it and the AI taxi have no problems finding their way to the runway and line up correctly.

 

Ah good to know, thanks!

Off to give this a try.

Wow, I was the 4th in the flight - taxiing to the runway in my Spit Mk Vb and it was awesome! I just followed flight all way to runway and worked great.

 

Ran into a problem after that though, and not quite sure what to make of it.

Went to takeoff  my engine rpm cut way back, I observed the throttle and it was full forward as it should be, but engine just kept cutting way back.

Could not get enough for a run and take off.

Never quite seen anything like this before, any ideas?

[dburne]

Ok gave it a second try, and realized my throttle rpm was full back.

Gave her full forward and all was well, take off went fine and had a great mission.

 

This is fun!

[Murleen]

I actually had trouble with cold starts and the spitfire - I found the AI would taxi much quicker than I could, so the planes behind me would crash into my rudder.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Murleen said:

I actually had trouble with cold starts and the spitfire - I found the AI would taxi much quicker than I could, so the planes behind me would crash into my rudder.

 

I have done two missions , so far no trouble at all.

On one a wingman had trouble getting his engine started, he finally got it and taxied on but we had to wait

a short bit for him to catch up on the runway before we go the clearance to take off lol.

[spamRoast]

On 4/24/2019 at 2:04 AM, Semor76 said:

@Murleen

 

Small suggestion: It´s possible to ad a delay between each AI engine start sequence?  Let´s say 3-5 seconds? It looks a bit weird if all AI´s fire up their engines at the same time.

On 4/24/2019 at 12:36 PM, Murleen said:

I don't think so - the AI start up when the leader is given a take off command, so they all start at the same time.

 

2 hours ago, dburne said:

I have done two missions , so far no trouble at all.

On one a wingman had trouble getting his engine started, he finally got it and taxied on but we had to wait

a short bit for him to catch up on the runway before we go the clearance to take off lol.

 

I'm curious what the trouble was with the engine getting started. I wonder if that trouble could be used as a hacky way to delay the start times between AI planes so that it seems a little more realistic. I'm just throwing ideas around but do you have any thoughts on that, @Murleen?

[Murleen]

4 minutes ago, terrible_pilot said:

 

 

I'm curious what the trouble was with the engine getting started. I wonder if that trouble could be used as a hacky way to delay the start times between AI planes so that it seems a little more realistic. I'm just throwing ideas around but do you have any thoughts on that, @Murleen?

 

I'm not sure what's happening there - I'd never seen this behaviour before, but then I saw it happen just now where the #2 plane in formation didn't start his engine with the others, but then started up later. I guess the devs may have added some random effect where the engine won't always start first time, but I'm not aware of any way mission designers could control this.

[Semor76]

31 minutes ago, Murleen said:

 

I'm not sure what's happening there - I'd never seen this behaviour before, but then I saw it happen just now where the #2 plane in formation didn't start his engine with the others, but then started up later. I guess the devs may have added some random effect where the engine won't always start first time, but I'm not aware of any way mission designers could control this.

You´re right. I have this more than enough when I start the engine from a complete C&D situation. Over the time I automaticly open the throttle a bit more right after the engine starts.

[dburne]

On 4/24/2019 at 3:36 PM, Murleen said:

 

I don't think so - the AI start up when the leader is given a take off command, so they all start at the same time.

 

Hmm I am pretty sure with the Spit Campaign I am flying, the AI start their engines sequentially rather than at the same time.

I have only done couple of missions, will be doing more today so I will double check this.

 

 

[dburne]

4 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Hmm I am pretty sure with the Spit Campaign I am flying, the AI start their engines sequentially rather than at the same time.

I have only done couple of missions, will be doing more today so I will double check this.

 

 

 

Nope I was incorrect, the other three did start their engines at the same time.

[dburne]

@Murleen

 

Having great fun with the Cold Start option in my Spit 57th GIAP Campaign, thanks so much for all your efforts on this!

 

I had one mission where I think I got too close to the plane in front of me on the runway for takeoff and we never got takeoff clearance, restarted it and did fine on the next 

attempt. I just need to be careful with my positioning.

Hoping this can get permanently implemented into PWCG at some point as an option for our missions.

 

It definitely adds to the immersion !

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by dburne

[Columbar]

 

On 4/26/2019 at 10:45 AM, Murleen said:

 

Agreed, it's a lot easier on paved runways where you can follow the taxiway. If anyone has any good suggestions on ways to make the taxi paths more obvious, I'm happy to give it a go.

 

Maybe put some fire along taxi paths or only on turn points of taxi paths. 

 

Is it difficult to make this? 

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by Columbar

[Murleen]

2 hours ago, Columbar said:

 

 

Maybe put some fire along taxi paths or only on turn points of taxi paths. 

 

Is it difficult to make this? 

 

 

It would certainly be possible, but it'd need a lot of testing, and we'd need to make sure fires were disabled when away from the airfield to avoid having a performance impact. My concerns are that this doesn't feel very realistic - I doubt there was a line of fires around a grass airfield (in daytime) for planes to follow. This would also probably look odd on paved airfields, and PWCG currently doesn't distinguish between grass and paved airfield.s

[dburne]

Getting an error now when clicking on my current Campaign in PWCG Cold Start version.

 

Edit: Never mind, I needed to request leave due to injury. All taken care now.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by dburne

[dburne]

Just wanted to state again how much I appreciate this Murleen.

I am 15 missions into my Cold Start campaign now, and it has been working flawless for me so far.

It really adds a nice element of immersion, and is currently only way I am flying PWCG.

I love starting engine and taxiing to the runway!

 

Thanks again for all your efforts on this, hoping it continues on in future versions of PWCG!

[Semor76]

Found some issues with Bombers & co.

 

Seems like the bigger the plane, the AI have more problems to taxi to the runway.

 

Try it out. Put 8-10 He-111,Ju,88´s etc on a mission, let them cold start and taxi to the runway.  50% chance they get stuck or it takes more than 20 min till they reached the runway threshold.

 

 

[Murleen]

On 5/4/2019 at 5:10 PM, dburne said:

Just wanted to state again how much I appreciate this Murleen.

I am 15 missions into my Cold Start campaign now, and it has been working flawless for me so far.

It really adds a nice element of immersion, and is currently only way I am flying PWCG.

I love starting engine and taxiing to the runway!

 

Thanks again for all your efforts on this, hoping it continues on in future versions of PWCG!

 

Glad to hear you like it!

6 hours ago, Semor76 said:

Found some issues with Bombers & co.

 

Seems like the bigger the plane, the AI have more problems to taxi to the runway.

 

Try it out. Put 8-10 He-111,Ju,88´s etc on a mission, let them cold start and taxi to the runway.  50% chance they get stuck or it takes more than 20 min till they reached the runway threshold.

 

 

 

Can you post some example mission files where you see problems? I'll see if there's anything I can tweak in the generation.

[dburne]

On 4/25/2019 at 1:00 PM, Columbar said:

One note:

 

It is quite difficult when you lead flight to find the way to begining of runway on grass airfields e.g. Krasnoarmyenskayas airfield on Kuban map. It happens that I have to followed my squad mates instead i lead them.  ?

Maybe more training will help ?

 

What I am doing:

I fly with difficulty on Custom.

Allow Spectators. This will allow exterior views.

When dropped into airfield before I un-pause, I go to exterior view and pan around and look for the runway flag.

Whichever end it is on is the end I taxi to, back into cockpit and un-pause to begin the mission.

If the flag is not on the end closest to me, I know it is on the other end.

 

[spamRoast]

9 hours ago, dburne said:

 

What I am doing:

I fly with difficulty on Custom.

Allow Spectators. This will allow exterior views.

When dropped into airfield before I un-pause, I go to exterior view and pan around and look for the runway flag.

Whichever end it is on is the end I taxi to, back into cockpit and un-pause to begin the mission.

If the flag is not on the end closest to me, I know it is on the other end.

 

^ Good idea for quick fix.

I mentioned earlier that I saw some things about airfield layouts somewhere on the forum, but I didn't remember where I saw them (it was awhile ago and alcohol may have been involved lol). But after a quick search for "airfield maps" I found the thread below. It looks like a user created a third party android app re: maps but I didn't read the whole thread. It still looks to be active though, and maybe there's an iOS version now (not sure).

There's also this site https://il2map.info/ that allows you to zoom into the fields. Either of those ideas might allow people to have the map on another monitor or device so they can see the airfield layouts as they play.

Just a couple thoughts. There might be other tools out there too.