Pe-2 impossible to land on 1 engine

[il2crashesnfails]

I have tried many times to land the pe-2 with 1 engine and I always crash, can the more experienced please tell what I'm doing wrong.

 

 

[wombatBritishBulldogs]

To much flap !Got to keep speed up with plenty of stable rudder and power even if you hit the deck fast 

[il2crashesnfails]

31 minutes ago, wombatBritishBulldogs said:

To much flap !Got to keep speed up with plenty of stable rudder and power even if you hit the deck fast 

 

Yes, I was stalling at the end. would you keep second engine at full?

[JonRedcorn]

26 minutes ago, il2crashesnfails said:

 

Yes, I was stalling at the end. would you keep second engine at full?

You need to keep the engine at whatever speed maintains flight. I'd check the proper landing speed for the plane and try and keep it there. Need to trim that bad boy out that things all over the place.

[il2crashesnfails]

3 minutes ago, 392FS_Jred said:

You need to keep the engine at whatever speed maintains flight. I'd check the proper landing speed for the plane and try and keep it there. Need to trim that bad boy out that things all over the place.

Yeah, sure was I had to let go of rudder to try and feather the prop ?

 

Have you found the pe-2 harder to fly single engine then others like the bf-110?

[wombatBritishBulldogs]

Yes kill the motor throttle  once on the deck a rolling out 

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

1 minute ago, il2crashesnfails said:

Yeah, sure was I had to let go of rudder to try and feather the prop ?

 

Have you found the pe-2 harder to fly single engine then others like the bf-110?

The 110 is a breeze to fly on one engine if you feather the prop of the damaged engine. The G2 has a lot more power so its even easier than the E2.

[JonRedcorn]

Honestly without even feathering anything the 110 is pretty easy to fly.

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

 

2 minutes ago, 392FS_Jred said:

Honestly without even feathering anything the 110 is pretty easy to fly.

 

Agreed... not sure why its easier than the PE2 .... maybe some of the brainy guys on here can enlighten us. Power to weight ratio perhaps?

[JonRedcorn]

4 minutes ago, =EXPEND=DendroAspis said:

 

 

Agreed... not sure why its easier than the PE2 .... maybe some of the brainy guys on here can enlighten us. Power to weight ratio perhaps?

Think the 110's a bit smaller than the pe2 as well. Could definitely be right in that.

[unreasonable]

Try turning off the other engine.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

OK: Here you are, with a Go Around and everything. She definetly isn't a Dog (But my Mic is)

Transcript: Follow the Technochat, and I talk a lot about being gentle and keeping the Ball Centered)

0:25 Straight Flight

2:00 Approach

3:25 Touch and Go

4:25 Flying a shortened Pattern

6:30 Final Approach and Landing

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[il2crashesnfails]

15 hours ago, 392FS_Jred said:

Think the 110's a bit smaller than the pe2 as well. Could definitely be right in that.

yeah i think the 110 is alot lighter could be wrong though

[[CPT]Crunch]

Something was off with your asymmetrical flaps, the missing one should have produced a fatal roll moment once down.  Looked like no effect at all.  

 

Shut the engine completely off and experience the full drag, than see how much of a dog it really is.  As a general rule a unfeathered prop will produce drag equivalent to an extra wing.

 

 

[SOLIDKREATE]

Did you feather the prop?   (Ctrl + F)

 

Also close the radiators and oil coolers on that side. Use 1% flap too. And trim her out.

Edited December 1, 2018 by 392FS_SPEKTRE76

[il2crashesnfails]

3 hours ago, 392FS_SPEKTRE76 said:

Did you feather the prop?   (Ctrl + F)

 

Also close the radiators and oil coolers on that side. Use 1% flap too. And trim her out.

 

I did press ctrl f. I had full flap so that was incorrect, maybe why i stalled onto the runway

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Nah, overall it should have been OK, but he just came in too slow. 

[JonRedcorn]

4 hours ago, il2crashesnfails said:

 

I did press ctrl f. I had full flap so that was incorrect, maybe why i stalled onto the runway

You have to select the dead engine first in this case it would have been engine 1, I don't think it works if you have a running engine selected.

[=AVG77=FenderbirdX]

Pe2 can not feather prop.

Normal glide slope for pe2 should never be performed with more than 30% flap.

Give that a try and you should have better results.

[FTC_Passion]

18 hours ago, [TWB]fenderbird said:

Pe2 can not feather prop.

Normal glide slope for pe2 should never be performed with more than 30% flap.

Give that a try and you should have better results.

Fenderbird is correct. Prop cannot be feathered. You can pull the RPM back before the engine fully cuts out. Seems to lessen drag. You also had had flaps out too much.

Edited December 2, 2018 by 6./ZG76_Passion

[il2crashesnfails]

9 hours ago, [TWB]fenderbird said:

Pe2 can not feather prop.

Normal glide slope for pe2 should never be performed with more than 30% flap.

Give that a try and you should have better results.

 

That's good to know saves me wasting time trying to feather. Geez, at the end I had 100% full flaps ?

I think you are right if i had less flaps maybe gone alot better

 

[Haza]

I never land with flaps with one engine out and just come in that bit faster and usually with a slightly higher AoA.  I usually land with no flaps as you are never sure if you will have equal symmetry with the flaps, as usually for me an engine out by enemy engagement, usually takes out flap(s) out as well, although I notice that one flap is missing from the good "engine side" rather than the stopped engine side!

 

Therefore, on twin engines, my rule is one engine out, no flaps!

 

Regards

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

8 hours ago, il2crashesnfails said:

 

That's good to know saves me wasting time trying to feather. Geez, at the end I had 100% full flaps ?

I think you are right if i had less flaps maybe gone alot better

 

The 45° of Flaps are really good for very steep Approaches, but in General the Pe-2s Landing Capabilities are Endless. It literally can be landed almost vertically. 

All you have to remember is that she likes Speed. 

 

 

[Bullets]

From that height and speed you could have had both engines at 0% and glided down with no issue, as others have stated the problem was too much flaps which caused your airspeed to drop massively as you were on final which normally would require more thrust but seeing as you couldn't do that without spinning out it just increased your rate of decent too much that you couldn't pull up enough without stalling! 

[il2crashesnfails]

16 hours ago, Bullets said:

From that height and speed you could have had both engines at 0% and glided down with no issue, as others have stated the problem was too much flaps which caused your airspeed to drop massively as you were on final which normally would require more thrust but seeing as you couldn't do that without spinning out it just increased your rate of decent too much that you couldn't pull up enough without stalling! 

 

yeah, I forgot you need alot of power with full flaps at slow speeds. Next time probably wont  use any flaps at all and come in fast.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Use a little, 15° should suffice and help with the roundout. 

Or just do it vertically. No engine Power needed at all, as demonstrated.

[Bilbo_Baggins]

Could someone please explain why this machine was even designed with such a large degree of flap extension if you only use 30% to land it?

 

RGDS

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

1 hour ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

Could someone please explain why this machine was even designed with such a large degree of flap extension if you only use 30% to land it?

 

The real question is, why ANY OTHER plane was even designed when they had this flying tank pilot kill machine

Edited December 4, 2018 by =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

Step 1. Pray, boil a chicken under the full moon and dance around the flames.

 

Joking aside, the Pe-2 is a bit heavier than the 110 so it tends to lose speed quickly after cutting/losing power. Don't forget to trim your rudder 100% towards the good engine. Keep your speed up til you know you have the runway made, and try to be a tad high. Chop throttle on the good engine and flare. No flaps (I don't deploy flaps, because if they are damaged as well, and deploy asymmetrically, you waste a ton of precious energy trying correct during the most critical phase of flight), or if you must, minimal. As has been stated, feather dead prop (very important), close rads on dead engine.

 

Its not impossible, just more difficult than the 110. Hell, I've landed the 110 with 1 engine, half my tail, canopy gone, and one jammed aileron.

[il2crashesnfails]

On 12/4/2018 at 6:22 PM, Bilbo_Baggins said:

Could someone please explain why this machine was even designed with such a large degree of flap extension if you only use 30% to land it?

 

RGDS

that's a good question i usually extend to 100% but hve been told that is too much, so why have so much flaps?

[DD_Perfesser]

Wasn't designed as a bomber. Original concept was a long range escort fighter for strategic bombers IIRC.

 

Says in the specs not to use more than 70% flap (35 degrees)  on landing.

Edited December 8, 2018 by DD_Perfesser

[Lusekofte]

It was a pig to fly. This FM is the one I think is spot on. You can not simulated heavy controls, but in this case they almost have. No matter how many planes this Sim get , I think this will remain my favorite. One can say a lot about defensive guns, but the rest is just fantastic

Edited December 8, 2018 by LuseKofte

[il2crashesnfails]

19 hours ago, DD_Perfesser said:

Wasn't designed as a bomber. Original concept was a long range escort fighter for strategic bombers IIRC.

 

Says in the specs not to use more than 70% flap (35 degrees)  on landing.

 

 

If it was designed as a fighter why bother with the extra seat?

[unreasonable]

On 12/4/2018 at 3:22 PM, Bilbo_Baggins said:

Could someone please explain why this machine was even designed with such a large degree of flap extension if you only use 30% to land it?

 

RGDS

 

According to Gordon's book on Soviet Air Power the designers did not anticipate quite how bad the handling would be at low speed and high AoA during landing. Full flaps makes that much worse.  It was a very new design; hardly the only type to exhibit unexpected behaviour once it was actually flying. 

 

 

2 hours ago, il2crashesnfails said:

 

 

If it was designed as a fighter why bother with the extra seat?

 

Pilot, navigator/equipment operator and gunner. Long range escort not having the same demands as short range interception.  Most Bf110 variants went with the gunner doubling up on other duties, same for the Beaufighter. The Mosquito went without a gunner but always needed a navigator/operator in it's fighter role.  Presumably the Soviets thought that having a dedicated extra crewman was advisable, given their training standards, and worth the loss of payload the extra weight entailed.

[DD_Perfesser]

Quote

Could someone please explain why this machine was even designed with such a large degree of flap extension if you only use 30% to land it?

When you design a wing to fly fast meaning low drag(and we can all agree that it is) the more you need lift enhancing devices at the low speed part of flight to keep landing speeds reasonable.

I think there's some confusion here, some people are talking degrees of flap and others percent. 70% is 35 degrees. While I don't know the exact number we can guess that  100% flap is about 50 degrees of flap deployment.  Not an unreasonable number if you were trying to do a steep decent to landing. Why the extra capability?  Dunno. Do you use them when dive bombing with the air brakes?

There has to be a good reason, the consequences of getting it wrong IRL are pretty catastrophic.

But as in many cases, the PE2 requires a slightly different technique due to it's design. Flap deployment is also coupled to elevator trim.

While full flap may be OK in a steep decent to keep the speed reasonable as soon as you flare to land you exceed the stall angle.

I suggest that after setting the elevator full nose up trim for landing you then trim the airplane for landing speed using flap deployment.

If your approach is a little fast, a bit more flap, too slow... raise the flaps a few degrees.

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by DD_Perfesser

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Easy
1 engine landing..
No Flaps
Steep Decent Land at 220-240kph..
Roll to stop with brakes Easy.
Just like landing 2 engines without flaps no different except the yaw.

keep in mind in this "sim" you can land pe2 and 110 at 300kph and still brake to stop just fine

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by =TBAS=Sshadow14

[Motherbrain]

Pe-2 is deceptively tricky to land. It's so easy and enjoyable to fly in almost every other way.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

4 hours ago, Motherbrain said:

Pe-2 is deceptively tricky to land. It's so easy and enjoyable to fly in almost every other way.

Pitty it dont have the leading edge slats like 110 that allow much higher AoA at slower speeds.

Pe2 tip stall at 150m really wakes you up ?


TBH for both 110 and pe2 single engine landing i recommend No engine dead stick landings.
Come in high and fast shut down good engine (clean up trims for smooth no engine glide in)
also as you only have 1 chance to land we tend to make it our best landing ?

 

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by =TBAS=Sshadow14

[Raptorattacker]

@6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann That's fantastic! How the hell d'you manage to land, with one engine, controlling the plane AND play the organ in your local Cathedral so excellently??!!

@il2crashesnfails The main problem with your landing is DEFINITELY 'overflapping'!! You can't feather on that unit, by the way! 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Raptorattacker

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

8 hours ago, Raptorattacker said:

@6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann That's fantastic! How the hell d'you manage to land, with one engine, controlling the plane AND play the organ in your local Cathedral so excellently??!!

@il2crashesnfails The main problem with your landing is DEFINITELY 'overflapping'!! You can't feather on that unit, by the way! 

Can't tell wether ironic or flattery.  I choose flattery, because I like being flattened.