Editor subtitles not appearing solutions

[adler_1]

hi,

I have loads of subtiltes that wont appear in missions and yet they did previously for the set action , how do you trouble shoot this glitch in editor ,  solutions pls ?  

[Thad]

I doubt that it has anything to do with editor problems.

 

Find one that does work correctly. Note how it is set up and duplicate it as required. ?

[Gambit21]

There is no current problem with the editor logic and subtitles.

Post a mission file.

[adler_1]

hello

there is only one subtitle  MCU option , the linkage being by target from a timer or a message from an object , if that does'nt work while others do what is the solution ? 

example 1) bombers destroy targets , declare so in the left bottom side of the  HUD but the messages wont appear , yet they used to .

example 2) declaration that enemy in area from checker wont appear yet red marker from area attack command in area starts .

example 3)  same as example 1 ground object destroyed but message wont appear but used to .

another point i want to mention is the subtitle set up sometimes changes when the mission is  played again . what was true and false is not the same .

example 4)if i duplicate a mission for various reasons many set ups  corrupt and becomes useless .  

Edited October 12, 2018 by dog1

[Gambit21]

Do you actually want help or not?

If you do post a mission file - the end.

[Thad]

I just checked some of my mission subtitle messages. They are working correctly. There is nothing wrong with the editor. 

[adler_1]

THAD

I'm not saying something is wrong with the editor , why wont some off mine appear is all i want to know ? what are the solutions or alternatives to forcing a message to appear if any ? a message must appear , so if it does'nt why ? why will one connected message appear and not another ? for example a message from the same MCU will declare the second message but miss the first message  .

[Gambit21]

Post.......a.......mission........

6 minutes ago, dog1 said:

THAD

I'm not saying something is wrong with the editor , why wont some off mine appear is all i want to know ?

 

 

You don't want to know that badly, or you'd help us help you by posting a file.

[adler_1]

GAMBIT21 

Here is the file , i repeat the problems

1)Message object destroyed does not appear  but has in the past ,i have the same issue with other missions .

2) When enemy in area the light goes back to yellow ie from attack area red to WP yellow shortly after dogfight starts . When the fight time is over the WP does move to next WP correctly .

3)returning to base before mission ends IE before light blue marker appears at landing area and i do land the plane , it will sink into the runway .

4) i have not tested the landing off all 3 fighters as a condition to have  declared the mission a success , pls take a look at my MCU's set up on the airfield if you think it should work with the counter in between landing and mission objective . names are correctly inserted in complex trigger .

5) why doesnt the player pilot appear sometimes .

6) the area attack command is repeating itself even though set for 1 time with disactivator .

7) i have tried  the mission again and my plane goes into the runway and disappears when landed !!!

? i have made a video of the landing issue and phantom pilot . Also you will see the red marker going to yellow prematurely . also the declaration that the train was hit on the lower left off the cockpit but no message above . I am uploading to youtube  .link 

FILE TO bos.rar

Edited October 12, 2018 by dog1

[Gambit21]

Full day of work ahead - I’ll look later.

For the moment, you can help yourself.

 

Create a simple mission with a trigger/subtitle and see if it fires. If it doesn’t, you’re doing something fundamentally wrong. If so, post this test mission.

 

If it works, then what did you do differently. I don’t have time to play test.

I’ll open in the editor later if no one else gets there first.

 

For now, make a simple mission on a small map and test your logic.

[adler_1]

i'll wait till someone tells me why the plane has no pilot and it buries into the runway , the same mission had a pilot and was landing normally on that runway , no test can simulate that . I am under the impression that the Editor corrupts existing missions , especially when you copy them . this is happening time and time again .   Take your time  and looking forward to some constructive solutions to the above list . 

Edited October 12, 2018 by dog1

[Thad]

40 minutes ago, dog1 said:

I am under the impression that the Editor corrupts existing missions , especially when you copy them . this is happening time and time again .   Take your time  and looking forward to some constructive solutions to the above list . 

If that is indeed the case... rather than copy a mission... save as under a different name and see if the same corruption occurs.

 

I have no idea why your pilots don't appear. That is odd. Are you running any mods? If so, try deactivating them.

 

Generally, I try to keep things as simple as I can during my mission making (being a simple person) and I test things all along the way. If I add or change things and something messes up... I can go back into the editor and delete or correct the change, (I keep notes of major changes). This makes it easier to get the mission working the way I want all along the way and avoids a lot of confusion later.

[Gambit21]

Some notes...I don't have time to play test, but here is what I see so far.

 

First, you do not need to activate/place a timer for a complex trigger. It's unique in that it's active all on it's own as long as the  "enabled" box is checked.

If you want you can uncheck this box, and use an "activate" MCU when you want it to activate, otherwise it's already active.

 

Second, for the complex trigger you don't need to use all those filters, the object name list is enough.

You don't need country or scripts unless you need those for some reason. In other words if you want the trigger to work for EVERY 109e, then go ahead and use that box.

In that case, you wouldn't need to use the object names list.

 Object name only for your purpose.

 

Third...Your "target destroyed" subtitle is set for "Allies T", yet your player is Axis. There's no way that subtitle was ever working/visible for Axis aircraft.

 

Fourth - in the past copy/pasting a complex trigger would cause it to bug out and no longer work.

I don't know if this is the case any longer, but I'm in the long standing habit of always grabbing a new one instead of copy/paste.

 

Fifth, you need to organize your mission logic better.

Put things in groups, Player AC, Enemy AC, etc. Even if all the AC are in a group together, at least have all the map object in a separate group.

Makes things easier later, trust me. My work is fastidious, and I when I look at say a generated mission from the career...it's horrific.

Your find for a simple mission like this, but as you gain ability and things get more complex, you need to be organized.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[adler_1]

THAD GAMBIT21

First thank you for your time and interest in helping me out . I have understood well the above points . Below are my comments .

1) i thought the train being targeted is allies so i considered it to be as such . I did not use the logic as axis attacking allies . Have to change my logic.

2) Complex trigger understood .

3) i did not know that in this sim you must group in the mission building . Never did that in CFS2 and IL2 which did not have this feature . I will have to start learning how this works within the mission and not adding files to group files or else it will really get complicated filling wise . My map objects are grouped totally independent of the mission set up , no mixing . However i do create an identity for the object i want to hit from the group if its the case in the mission . Dynamic objects are added in the mission such as planes and trains so far and i am mastering them well . 

4)I'm waitting to know from you 3 things

A) why is there no pilot sometimes . The only mod i have is the german voices enhancement which is not a mod . The order messages have disappeared though .

B) Why in this mission the plane started going under the runway on landing , it wasnt doing it previously when i was setting it up . Pls reffer to video .

C). Why in your opinion there is interference with the command attack red marker switching to yellow WP marker during the 5mn attack period ? this has been happening to  3 off my similar missions so far .

have a nice day

Edited October 13, 2018 by dog1

[Gambit21]

That's about all I can manage for now...lots of balls in the air.

[adler_1]

How do you set the following :

Player  kills 1-2-3 enemy planes as condition for mission success  before releasing next WP if possible . or where can i read how its done ?

where can i read about group forming in mission building ? not scenery object building .

Edited October 13, 2018 by dog1

[Gambit21]

Every enemy plane reports "on killed" to its own counter set to 1.

Each of those counters feeds into a single counter set to 3.

That counter to desired waypoint.

[adler_1]

i set up just one to test , aircraft to counter set as 1 , message to counter killed , counter to next counter set as 1 , linked to players WP , player WP to message set as allies true axis false .  i then tried true true and reverse false true but no subtitle appears .

[=RS=Stix_09]

6 hours ago, dog1 said:

How do you set the following :

Player  kills 1-2-3 enemy planes as condition for mission success  before releasing next WP if possible . or where can i read how its done ?

where can i read about group forming in mission building ? not scenery object building .

This guide covers counters and groups and gives examples on how to use them. "Forum topic: Prangster's IL-2 BoS Mission Building Guide"

If you have already done this you should review it again. (I'd def go through his tutorials)

I found minor errors in the guide and could see ways to improve on what he did , but its well written and very useful, even if its dated and uses an older editor.

(tip delete the .msnbin files in the tutorial missions before you open the mission files in the editor, as you want the new editor to recompile them.)

 

I'm currently learning how to build missions,but I have a programming background so I understand basic principles and as Gambit said you need to create groups (kinda like functions in programming ), it simplifies the editor layout and makes troubleshooting far easier. The other thing is you want to only activate objects as encountered (and deactivate when not needed) as much as possible , it will reduce load on computers running the mission, you don't want to turn on all object at mission start if you don't need to , especially AI objects , can put a lot of load on computer (also covered in Prangster's guide).

 

I had a look at your mission file and its far more complex than it needs to be , because a lot stuff is not defined in groups. The other advantage of groups is once they are debugged and working well, you can reuse them again (so again less chance for mistakes).

 

This section "IL-2 Sturmovik Mission Editor and Multiplayer Server Manual" also a must read, and good reference material.

 

Like I said I'm still a beginner when it comes to building missions, but having training in any form of programming , many of the principles apply here just as well.

Another programming principle is "divide and conqueror ", get stuff working in simpler and smaller blocks, then link them together. As Thad said keep it as simple as possible.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Stix_09

[adler_1]

STIX 

I have both manuals , not one of Prangsters simple starter missions worked for me so i stopped referring to it . Just yesterday i tried opening in missions the files he recommends to study but both are corrupted and dont open in Editor . I'll read it again specially the counter functions you mention. and grouping mission objects which i dont know anything about . i only know static scenery groups so far . 

Edited October 13, 2018 by dog1

[=RS=Stix_09]

On 10/13/2018 at 11:07 PM, dog1 said:

STIX 

I have both manuals , not one of Prangsters simple starter missions worked for me so i stopped referring to it . I'll read it again specially the counter functions you mention. and grouping mission objects which i dont know anything about . i only know static scenery groups so far . 

Ya it used an older editor (and based on older game engine version) , and there was some changes made to the names of some things (read about it somewhere). Pretty sure if you delete the .msnbin files the editor recreates them

 

(one of the main changes was CheckEntities -> CheckPlanes) see Complex trigger - Upcoming changes

 

The editor actually loads these compiled files rather then the .mission (txt files) if it sees them, because it uses the game engine to run (hence why you can only run editor or game , but not at the same time). That's my understanding. It takes longer to open mission files the first time until it compiles them.

 

The other thing is unless you are running dserver to play his tutorials you need to create them as single player missions to test them (that is also mentioned in his guide , part 5 testing)

EDIT:It's my understanding that it is now possible to host multiplayer missions directly in game without running a separate dserver program. This is nice for testing purposes.

 

They really should update that guide section considering its a pinned topic, as this not helping new people learn to create missions.

(I'll make a  post in that topic I think about it)

Edited October 31, 2018 by Stix_09
Update

[adler_1]

GAMBIT21 STIX

this works from Prangsters section 3.9 , i tried with one kill so far . just tested with 4 aircraft and subtitle appears .

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by dog1

[Gambit21]

13 hours ago, dog1 said:

i set up just one to test , aircraft to counter set as 1 , message to counter killed , counter to next counter set as 1 , linked to players WP , player WP to message set as allies true axis false .  i then tried true true and reverse false true but no subtitle appears .

 

Don't know what to tell you.

Hook it up correctly and it works.

[adler_1]

GAMBIT21

the above works as stated  . I have tested with multiple targets and works well .

[Gambit21]

Beside the point, but I’m glad you have a solution.

[WWSitttingDuck]

curious. when the subtitles failed, did you also not get a briefing (assuming there was one in there to begin with)....

[Gambit21]

Subtitle MCU logic is not tied to the briefing in any way.

[WWSitttingDuck]

no, but if the briefing is gone, and the subtitles are gone, it points to a bad list file.......

 

which is why I asked.....

[Gambit21]

I see...thanks.

[Thad]

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 6:07 AM, dog1 said:

STIX 

I have both manuals , not one of Prangsters simple starter missions worked for me so i stopped referring to it . Just yesterday i tried opening in missions the files he recommends to study but both are corrupted and dont open in Editor . I'll read it again specially the counter functions you mention. and grouping mission objects which i dont know anything about . i only know static scenery groups so far . 

 

Salutations,

 

I have been meaning to respond to your comments dog1 for some time. You are completely incorrect in regards to Pranksters' guide. If there are any problems they lie with you and not his manual.

 

I just spent several hours working my way through Prankster's Mission Building Manual again. I created all of the groups entailed as instructed. Guess what? Everything worked as it should. Afterwards I saved the resultant mission as a Single Player with a Fw 190 set as the 'player' , used a different mission name and placed it in my missions folder. I started the game and guess what again? Just guess. Surprise, the mission ran just fine. How about that?

 

As the manual states, the original tutorial missions templates are meant to be placed in the Multiplayer/Dogfight folder and they are set as a Deathmatch. That's why you can't load it from within the game as a normal SP mission. 

 

There are a few minor errors in this aged manual such a map coordinates from apparently an older map and a town name being different than listed in the manual, but despite its' age, the manual stands up pretty well.

 

Thanks again Prankster for your Mission Building Manual.

Get busy updating it. ?

[adler_1]

It is the duty of the developer off the sim to produce a comprehensive tutorial encompassing all aspects off the sim with updates over the years when necessary . Why do you have to wait for tom dick and harry to release whatever and when they wish maybe forgetting to add that this works with this patch and this does'nt work with that one all depending on the weather and your luck ?

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

Really? From what I have observed, you can't or won't use the tutorial already made available to you. What makes you think you would use another?

 

Il2 is a work in progress. It is constantly growing and improving. Along with that growth and improvement comes changes... some fundamental that make old missions and ways of doing things obsolete. That is the price paid for progress in the growth of the simulation.

 

You seem to want everything done for you without learning the basics yourself even with the aids currently available. You have disparaged a current mission building manual by saying it is out of date and doesn't work. I have proven you wrong.  If others can use it and learn mission building basics with it, (me), so can you.

 

I don't mean to be overly critical. I want to encourage you to learn how to build basic missions to your hearts content. I have gone out of my way as have others many times to help you. 

[=RS=Stix_09]

I have agree with Thad on this one. It covers this stuff pretty well. There is so much useful info in pranksters guide and the "IL-2 Sturmovik Mission Editor and Multiplayer Server Manual"

 

I did have a few issues with Prankster's guide but using the other guide I was able to work out the problems. Not only do they explain how to do it they also give a lot of tips on how to make missions that are clearer and easier to read and troubleshoot.

 

I've also looked at some other people missions to see how they did things and it was evident they were either made before the guides were made or  without reading these guides after they were made, and to be honest they are a difficult to follow , mainly because of poor grouping.

 

These guides really are excellent and it's definitely worth the time to follow them. In the long run, particularly as your  missions  get more complicated they will make even more of a difference. I've also picked up several gems that would have cost me enormous amounts of time otherwise. (like creating a scenery group using the developer templates of all the structures for each map I did not know existed)

 

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by Stix_09
typo

[=RS=Stix_09]

I just completed my first mission , after a lot of bug testing , pretty happy with result, uses a lot of the stuff from the guides (including some of the very useful) code snippets.

 

I also came across this mission from Sketch, looks quite well written and its also based on principles from the guides (pretty evident when you look at it , if you have been through the guides). Its called Supply Runner .

 

Will give some idea how your missions should look dog.

 

And this is my mission(single player) that I made to help me understand the guides. It's called Bomber Hunter, and its pretty fun 30-40 mins on small Lapino map. It's somewhat simpler , but still has many of the "complex" element groups from the guide(defense switch, effects sustainer, etc) , good enough for learning from.

 

Here is a quick in game description

 

 

 

Bomber Hunter.zip

Edited October 31, 2018 by Stix_09

[JimTM]

16 hours ago, Stix_09 said:

I just completed my first mission , after a lot of bug testing , pretty happy with result, uses a lot of the stuff from the guides (including some of the very useful) code snippets.

 

...

 

I'm mostly a MP fan, but I enjoyed flying your SP mission.

 

Here's a couple of (early) observations:

• Consider reducing the size of waypoint 1. I barely got off the ground when the yellow waypoint icon appeared and quickly disappeared, because I had reached the waypoint. I suggest that you make it the size of the other waypoints.
• General Tip: Arrange MCUs to avoid confusing overlap of links. E.g., In group "Count Bf110 Destroyed", the output target link from counter "OUT" (id: 1463) lines up with an incoming target link from timer T2 (id: 1456) and continues out to timer "Mission Failure" (id: 1464). At first, it looked as if "OUT" had no output since the outgoing arrow was far away. It looked as if the output target link to "Mission Failure" was coming from timer T2.

 

Cheers!  

Edited November 1, 2018 by JimTM

[=RS=Stix_09]

Thanks, I value your feedback.

 

I made wp 1 zone big on purpose  , but I think you are right its a little too large.

I made your suggested changes also so that link is not obscured (I missed that).

 

I also just updated it to winter map (November should be winter)  and later in the day so its almost dark near the end of mission , (takeoff at sunset ) and added bonfires to light runway with a zone detect so I can see them light up on approach.

 

Gives it a really nice scenic feel.

 

I'm going to make some coop missions next , then do some multiplayer ones too.

 

And thanks also for that awesome guide, its very good. I would have been lost without it.

 

[adler_1]

STICKS-09 

i downloaded both missions and will disect them .Pls upload the improved mission you mention above .

[=RS=Stix_09]

Bomber Hunter-V2.0.zip

 

OK here you go. Also has minor bug  fix in mission logic.

[adler_1]

STIX

I did not understand the purpose of the mission supply runner other than maybe an exercise in delivery , courrier style , logistics maybe , nothing to do with military mission planing . pls explain .

In Bomber hunter there are many MCU's not appearing at trigger points , just  lines going in all directions . Are they hidden for some reason ? 

Edited November 1, 2018 by dog1

[=RS=Stix_09]

On 11/1/2018 at 5:45 PM, dog1 said:

STIX

I did not understand the purpose of the mission supply runner other than maybe an exercise in delivery , courrier style , logistics maybe , nothing to do with military mission planing . pls explain .

In Bomber hunter there are many MCU's not appearing at trigger points , just  lines going in all directions . Are they hidden for some reason ? 

 

I could not get supply runner working (also an older game version), I don't have the Ju52, so maybe it has some issues, forget about that one. You could also ask the author for supply runner. (I mainly suggested it from an editor/how mission should look perspective)

 

Regarding Bomber Hunter :

Its probably in  a group that is not set active or similar. You would have to be specific , give me some Item id's like in JimTM's post above.

(try "reset working group", make sure you have no filters set and then tick these items in menu)

That should allow all items to show. (some links are across two different groups) You can also look at properties for an item to see where its the output links go to (but not the inputs) You also may need to look at the guide for that particular MCU some use events and reports (purple and blue links)

 

When you have a group set as working (ie Set group as Working) only items in that group show (that's what makes groups very useful , it hides other stuff).

 

On a different note. This is what I do when building missions: Others may have some suggestions for what they recommend also when using the editor in addition to the guides????

I'd certainly be interested.

 

Spoiler

Some suggestions on building missions (Additional to the guide)
    Most important read the guides first. Don't try and build a working full size mission until you have done this.
    While you work though the guides build mini missions to help you understand stuff. If you do not do this (and try to skip ahead)( you will create a lot more headache for yourself down the line and make missions that will be harder to troubleshoot.
    
Building a full mission: (once you are confident with the above)    
    Build all the static scenery first and make it into a group. (I import all the static templates for the map I'm working on to make this process faster.How to do this is covered in the guide.) This group is only for aesthetics, never put any logic in anything in this group.(it is another black box , with no input or output: See next)
    
    This idea comes from computer programming, and its based on a principle called information hiding. You make black boxes. The black box has an input and an output (but its internals are hidden). This makes coding much easier.  In the editor the way we can apply this is with smart use of grouping, and although it is somewhat clunky it still applies (you can also have groups within groups, ie a black box within a black box). 

    In the scenery group give names to any relevant areas like a city or airport that are an important part of your mission (but never active). For everything else in the group just leave with the generic names. You can always delete stuff from this group at any point or give meaningful names as required. I suggest to leave deletion  until the end of the mission build as you may decide you want to include it in the mission at some point, or remove it from the scenery group and make it active (next point).
    
    If anything in this scenery group is "active" in the mission , remove it from scenery and put it into a relevant group. By active I mean it plays a part in the mission (like a factory target with logic), these should be part of another group and not the scenery (aesthetic stuff only).
    
    Example I had a hangar that was in an airport and was part of the target for one of the factions. I had a smoke effect done on it if it was damaged, (I used an OnDamaged event trigger to start this), So I removed this block object  from the scenery group and made it part of the  "Soviet Target Bf110s" group. (Objects can trigger events). This makes troubleshooting much easier as all related things are grouped together (next point)
       
    I like to also have only 1 'Mission Begin MCU' item which I keep in the main top level group and set it's targets as I build the mission. This makes troubleshooting much easier. Also be careful with the use of the complex trigger MCU, as it can function as a begin mission MCU to (I like use the Begin MCU to activate these as required). Give meaningful names to related items, again this makes troubleshooting easier (see next)

 

With timer triggers: make the time part of the name (ie "Fly home: T 5m1s" = 5 minutes  1 second) , It saves a lot of time in troubleshooting. Just don't forget to update if you change the time Do similar with other MCU's as required.
    

    
    
   

    
   

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2018 by Stix_09