Would like to see an option to have the choice of females pilots ?

[GOZR 71]

You must be a sad person at the moment. Please lets not argue and lets this thread be for what it is, You can tell if you are for or against it , In the other hand you can start your own thread about been negative about it or what ever idea you may have or not but do not pollute mine and you will never see me being negative to your.

 

Thank you greatly for understanding.

Edited February 4, 2014 by GOZR

[J2_Trupobaw 896]

Yes Trupobaw ,   Same thing were said during WW1 or WW2. I think we need to start changing this mentality.

"But making a model would be a waste of developers time on less-than-pressing matter."

Why not break this old macho image and making a 3D pilot can be made by members. better to implement it while things are not yet set like a rock and part of the project list. But this would be a great exemplary for the future Sim to come and not as a mod. Anyway I will not argue but to me it is important.

 

 

http://youtu.be/4uObDK4gslU

777 are integrating quality user-made content into Rise of Flight every so often; if some members makes alternative 3d pilots, they may end up as part of one of official game updates. No need to make a poll and discuss shape of game to come, just announce the project and look for cooperators  . 

 

I see it is important to you, to the extent that people not agreeing with you risks getting labeled as macho, sexualising or diminishing female pilots (will you call me anti-American - or anti-British -  if I say we don't need lend-lease planes, too? Anti-democratic, maybe? ). Perhaps we should make more effort to separate discussions with fellow pilots from personal windmill crusades?

Edited February 4, 2014 by Trupobaw

[GOZR 71]

to the extent that people not agreeing with you risks getting labeled as macho, sexualising or diminishing female pilots 

It's simple to give a smart opinion with out been disrespectful and constructive.

For the 777 integrating quality user made content I think this is great idea, thank you. Lets see if it is the same apply for IL2 with a word from developers.

Edited February 4, 2014 by GOZR

[LLv44_Mprhead 228]

After reading this thread, few things comes to mind. First, I am still somewhat opposed to having German female combat pilots. I kinda like my historical simulations historical. Second, as long as there is no avatar for pilot, this matters little. Third, I think it would be cool idea to introduce Po-2 as flyable aircraft for VVS with single player campaign having female pilot as protagonist.

[GOZR 71]

Interesting point about the IL2's and their tail gunners.

 

http://militaryanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/04/tail-gunner.html

 

and.

Women Military Pilots of World War II: A History with Biographies of American, British, Russian and German Aviators

http://books.google.com/books?id=oBIi6ezWZ0IC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[LukeFF 6273]

I really think this can bring new comers, new souls and a great tribute to so many courageous women we lost during the war.

 

Funny, I can recall plenty of females playing the original IL2, and there never ever were female pilot models or avatars in that game. That, and I'm of the same opinion as others here - it's a feature you would hardly ever notice, outside of choosing your pilot name and avatar picture when setting up a pilot career (assuming things in BOS will be like they are in ROF). It's not like, when I'm zooming past an enemy plane at 600 km/h, I'm going to notice the gender of the pilot, nor would I even really care. 

[Volkoff 188]

I have read arguments on various sides of the issue. Personally, I am absolutely for the inclusion of female pilots, for both sides, as an option for players. Now, I may be mistaken, but I haven't noticed any posts from our female community members. I am wondering, what sorts of views and positions our female community members hold, with regard to this issue?   MJ

Edited February 5, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[FlatSpinMan 817]

He wouldn't have to be so 'sanctimonious' if so many if the dissenting replies weren't so dismissive. If you think it's a low priority, that's one thing, but if you just type 'Who cares?' or similar, then it's quite natural to respond as GOZR did.

 

By the way, what exactly is sanctimonious about posting the details of combat pilots who happened to be women?

[unreasonable 3160]

He wouldn't have to be so 'sanctimonious' if so many if the dissenting replies weren't so dismissive. If you think it's a low priority, that's one thing, but if you just type 'Who cares?' or similar, then it's quite natural to respond as GOZR did.

 

By the way, what exactly is sanctimonious about posting the details of combat pilots who happened to be women?

I was quite happy to let GOZR to have the last word even with his cheap personal insults since he has decided that he owns the thread, but since a moderator asks, the answer of course nothing, as should be obvious if you had noticed that my comment was not attached to his list of heroines but to this:

 

"Hard to believe what some of you are writing. In the real world women are one of the toughest and fantastic pilots.

Plz do not need to sexualise or diminish what female pilot are and need a serious respect from Virtual pilots . I really think this can bring new comers, new souls and a great tribute to so many courageous women we lost during the war."

 

I think we should all remember that we are not attending some kind of remembrance service here, we are playing a game where the goal is to sneak up behind people unseen and shoot them in the back. I fail to see how this is a tribute to anybody or what respect has to do with it. You see this kind of moralizing often in flight sim forums with the exaggerated expressions of respect for those who served, etc. And then everyone goes back to enjoying the virtual killing. Nauseating hypocrisy.

[GOZR 71]

Unreasonable, There is no personal insults I really do not wish anything negative to anyone, I like posts with debates but no to argue negatively, If you feel insulted I do apology, this is not my attention at all. Everyone has a very different opinion in this matter. I'm taking IL2 series as for an example of learning experience, Many members here did learn a lot about aircraft and History and this keep a live this passion for ww2 era aircraft and many other subjects. When Piloting Yak-9's or MiG-15 in the early 90's it was very rare to find someone here that knew what it was and what those fantastic aircraft were able to do even in a real situation people didn't like it much and frequently approach us with a very negative attitude. To import Russian MiG-15 that fought in Korea and we had to paint them in Chinese colors. I constated around me young and older people passionate starting to know much more about Japanese/German/French and Russian aircraft and actually I can say now  that the IL2 series from the original did made a big impact. Lots of people could now talk about fighting dogfight and share many questions and feeling with the real pilots. So I do believe that IL2 is a great media via it's simulation and virtual pilot to continue this knowledge of History from many people across the world .. Sometime youth learn better via a virtual media. We need the women side of unknown History and IL2/ RoF/ DCS are great catalysts.

I may be rough sometimes, English is not my first language.  

Edited February 5, 2014 by GOZR

[unreasonable 3160]

GOZR no problem, lets leave it at that and move on constructively.

[GOZR 71]

+1

[Filanciu 1]

vote yes but I think that only the Russian side must have female pilots

1°remind the world the courage of these girls

2° for historical mission

[Rivet 48]

However the RAF had women who ferried planes from the factories to the respective squadrons afaik. 

 

Yes, that was the ATA (Air Transport Auxiliary) 1939 - 1945.  More info and stories here:  http://airtransportauxiliary.com/

 

My mother was in the WAAF and applied for the ATA but was refused because she was an inch too short to meet the minimum height requirement. She worked her way up from the plotting room to RT operator and finally earning her sparks to become wireless operator.

 

Voted yes  for women pilots.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Rivet

[GOZR 71]

Rivet, Yes awesome !

[Rivet 48]

Thanks GOZR.

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer 175]

Funny, I can recall plenty of females playing the original IL2, and there never ever were female pilot models or avatars in that game. 

 

Zuti made some nice female pilot skins for IL2. For BoS, really only the face would need much attention, the body figure would need minimal work, perhaps scale it down 5% or so, any body shape differences would be obscured by the flight suit. I don't think we realistically are talking about a major project.

[Charlo-VR 160]

Zuti made some nice female pilot skins for IL2. For BoS, really only the face would need much attention, the body figure would need minimal work, perhaps scale it down 5% or so, any body shape differences would be obscured by the flight suit. I don't think we realistically are talking about a major project.

 

Maybe Elephant, who made some new pilots for ROF, will also be interested and available for this project. 

 

Charlo

[GOZR 71]

Awesome!

[johncage 87]

777 are integrating quality user-made content into Rise of Flight every so often; if some members makes alternative 3d pilots, they may end up as part of one of official game updates. No need to make a poll and discuss shape of game to come, just announce the project and look for cooperators  . 

 

I see it is important to you, to the extent that people not agreeing with you risks getting labeled as macho, sexualising or diminishing female pilots (will you call me anti-American - or anti-British -  if I say we don't need lend-lease planes, too? Anti-democratic, maybe? ). Perhaps we should make more effort to separate discussions with fellow pilots from personal windmill crusades?

Not exactly true, there have been some high quality content, not everyone is selected due to difficulty and other factors.

 

This just another rehash of the "community will fix it" argument that is so virulent in sim games.

 

if it needs to be properly made, it has to be made by devs.

 

i support this realistic and so often lacking feature of sim games.

 

 

 

Maybe Elephant, who made some new pilots for ROF, will also be interested and available for this project. 

 

Charlo

Those are reskins, everyone can make them. Making female models will require remodeling, not just retexture

 

 

Zuti made some nice female pilot skins for IL2. For BoS, really only the face would need much attention, the body figure would need minimal work, perhaps scale it down 5% or so, any body shape differences would be obscured by the flight suit. I don't think we realistically are talking about a major project.

 

again, that is a q/a or quality issue. some people are fine with reskin, but i don't think they are acceptable, quality wise. i'd rather a serious attempt be made or no attempt at all. party why i think dev assistant and support on this matter is crucial. if it's community made, i am behind it and will provide necessary work in texture and modeling. i have such experience.

Edited March 5, 2014 by johncage

[Dormouse 4]

Hard to believe what some of you are writing.  In the real world women are one of the toughest and fantastic pilots.

Plz do not need to sexualise or diminish what female pilot are and need a serious respect from Virtual pilots . I really think this can bring new comers, new souls and a great tribute to so many courageous women we lost during the war.

 

Thank you.

Indeed. Pe2 female crew routinely flew night raids overcoming considerable physical requirements of the plane, for real, including dying. Two pennies humor drenched with cheap beer from individuals who consider a challange to play a videogame seems displaced.

[=69.GIAP=ALEXEJ 0]

You forgot one thing:

I'd like to have female gunners on the sovjet planes as well.

Edited April 7, 2014 by =69.GIAP=ALEXEJ

[Stray 74]

This is simplier than many of you think.

 

Instead of fooling around with selecting different pilot for yourself with each flight, this option should be enabled when registering with BoS: select your pilot's sex.

 

It is a historical fact women were active pilots  in WW2. It is also a fact women fly 1946 and this.

 

We have a female in our squad, I know she'd be happy to fly here as a girl.

 

In 1946 there is a female pilot template: easy fix applying your face on and voila, job done. Many men fly 1946 wth their faces on their pilots, too.

 

I vote yes.

[HeavyCavalrySgt 202]

Yes, afaik only the Soviets had female combat pilots. However the RAF had women who ferried planes from the factories to the respective squadrons afaik. 

 

Yeah, that looks like a ferry pilot in the Mustang too.  No markings, very clean airplane.

 

I wonder if ferrying could get dull if the aircraft you were ferrying was a Mustang or a Thunderbolt

[FuriousMeow 1079]

Has anyone bothered to gather information from the individuals that would care about this, like actual women? Not what you think they would like but an actual statement by a few would be nice to actually determine it.

 

Of course it really would only look different from a facial viewpoint, the VVS flight suits are so bulky and were actually flight suits for men in the VVS that there is no physical differences except for in some face skinning textures and bone structure - and some height differences but that is a negligeable point since there are no pilot models varying from 5'7" to 5'11" even for "men."

 

Just simply having a female model will gain a 0% more interest in actually attracting women to play this game, they either care about this genre or they don't. I'm serious, no woman is going to go "oh joy a female pilot model, now I'm interested in playing flying games!" anymore than the "Hello Kitty" skins attracted teenage girls to the Il-2 series. Now men who like to play as women but that's a whole different, and creepy, topic - there's apparently a very large group of those individuals based on Planetside and DayZ. I understand some men (boys more likely) play as women because the models are smaller and thusly harder to target/hit, but don't expect that here as there is still a giant airplane surrounding the pilot model that is the first thing to be shot.

Edited April 9, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[FlatSpinMan 817]

How do you know that potential to play as woman won't attract more women? Look, I don't expect it to make a huge difference, but personally, any game where I can select a character more similar to myself than some generic, default 'hero' makes a big difference. Also, it's a fact that in the VVS particularly, women did fly planes in combat, so why not allow someone to simulate that?

[Stray 74]

@FuriousMeow:

 

I don't think this issue is meant to attract female pilots to the sim, just give them an option to fly as one.

 

I know personally two women that fly 1946, one of them is my squaddie. Many more in the game, I guarantee that.

 

PS: most pretentious forum signature award is yours

[LukeFF 6273]

Choose a female name for your pilot. Done. Do you really think that a pilot could tell or would even care that the pilot opposing them was a woman? 

How do you know that potential to play as woman won't attract more women? Look, I don't expect it to make a huge difference, but personally, any game where I can select a character more similar to myself than some generic, default 'hero' makes a big difference. Also, it's a fact that in the VVS particularly, women did fly planes in combat, so why not allow someone to simulate that?

 

Playing fight sims for as long as I have done has taught me that the genre was, is, and always will be male-dominated. Adding a female pilot model isn't going to suddenly change that, any more than adding a female ATC voice would. 

[FuriousMeow 1079]

How do you know that potential to play as woman won't attract more women? Look, I don't expect it to make a huge difference, but personally, any game where I can select a character more similar to myself than some generic, default 'hero' makes a big difference. Also, it's a fact that in the VVS particularly, women did fly planes in combat, so why not allow someone to simulate that?

 

Because it won't. The pilot models were very much neutral in the Il-2 series. I created a Homer Simspon pilot, that didn't attract any fans of The Simpsons. And clearly the only different will be facial features, the flight suits were designed for men and so will be bulky and zero female form will show through.

 

The VVS information I know, that's why I focused on the VVS flight suits because they were the only air force to have female combat pilots - but really the only different will be facial features and height. The hair would be tucked away in their flight cap, the female form completely hidden under a flight suit developed for men, so just facial features are left that will never be seen except in screenshots and even then it will be quite difficult to spot unless it's the pilot hanging in their chute.

 

 

@FuriousMeow:

 

PS: most pretentious forum signature award is yours

 

Okay. I have my system info in there for bug reports so I don't have to repeat it. The Confirmed Kill readme was my first online air combat game/sim, and comparatively BoS is a walk in the park. Kind of like old geezers "back in my day we had to walk in ten feet of snow with thirty inches of ice in our frostbitten bare feet up hills both ways for seven majilion miles to get to school!"

Edited April 12, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Feathered_IV 6952]

Voted Yes. I don't mind if I cannot make a female identity for my VVS pilot, but I very much do want to hear them on the radio, fly with them or have them in my crew. They were there. Get over it.

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer 175]

Yes Trupobaw ,   Same thing were said during WW1 or WW2. I think we need to start changing this mentality.

"But making a model would be a waste of developers time on less-than-pressing matter."

Why not break this old macho image and making a 3D pilot can be made by members. better to implement it while things are not yet set like a rock and part of the project list. But this would be a great exemplary for the future Sim to come and not as a mod. Anyway I will not argue but to me it is important.

 

 

http://youtu.be/4uObDK4gslU

 

It would also be a nice possibility for getting the users involved with the product. User participation = good.

[Dormouse 4]

Funny how some can scream murder for the wrong position of a gauge in a dial and how briely the option to reproduce a female pilot (who served in real combat) can be dismissed.

[sturmkraehe 213]

Actually there is also quite an important argument in favour of this (which will do no harm to anybody as long as he/she is not forced to fly one female model):

 

Movie makers may have a vivid interest in having female pilot models - in particular for the scenario depicted in BoS.

[Robs 6]

I would only fly with female pilots if they were in the game

[Jade_Monkey 3764]

The only reason I said no is because they already have plenty of things to work on and this has no impact on the game at all. If the game was polished and needed no more improvements then i would gladly vote yes but that is not the case.

 

also, we only spend 0.1% of the time looking at the other pilots and it's hard to tell if they are male or female with the hat and goggles anyways.

[Dormouse 4]

I would only fly with female pilots if they were in the game

You are, what did you think, that males are genetically superior sim gamers? That you want it be represented, seen the rolling smiley, is a solid argument for NOT representing female pilots in the game :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Volkoff 188]

Funny how some can scream murder for the wrong position of a gauge in a dial and how briely the option to reproduce a female pilot (who served in real combat) can be dismissed.

 

+1 Yes. Women did fly and fight in combat and they belong in the cockpits and crews of VVS planes.  MJ

Edited May 24, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[Volkoff 188]

I can't see how this would take more than about an afternoon to accomplish.

Modify the model to give it a more feminine shape.

New texture to give her female features.

Add a dropdown box, in the same area in the interface as the skin selection, to choose male or female pilot.

 

Bingo, everyone is happy!

 

That would be fantastic. Finding ways to represent, include, and celebrate the contributions of women in the history of flight, be it in times of peace or in times of war, is a win win. This is the perfect opportunity to look for ways to include the representation of women in a combat flight sim, too. Women actually were pilots and crews in VVS aeroplanes and did fight in the air war over Stalingrad.  MJ

Edited May 24, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[StarLightSong 21]

Yakety Yak, don't talk back.

 

Ok, let's face it, we're yakety yaking on a forum. 

The "Devs" are working, B$##$s deep in code, it's like planning a moon launch, they won't easily be swayed from their assigned tasks by our musings and "wouldn't it be cool"s.

 

  They seem pretty focused on their timeline.

 

So no worry or need to stifle "innovation", "dream up dream up and fill your cup" - Neil Young.

 

So we can suggest anything we want (I'm going to think about some wants, always interested in micropayments, multiple audience appropriateness - from music and film work ).

 

Maybe something new will come of our meanderings.

I pop into other sim's forums and look at their wants, surprisingly similar at times.

 

Bringing something new to the table may be necessary in this Console dominated era.

A bit of gender equality could be part of that- particularly when historically accurate.

 

I think the production team know they've got to get a polished film into theaters before talking sequel, TV rights, action figures, soundtracks, video games- wait that's us.

 

Enjoying the interplay of ideas.

 

Immersion and quirkiness can really bring an app closer to the audience.

 

all your base are belong to us

 

[Krause 16]

I would love to see female pilots. Just a great detail to have in consideration tbh

Edited June 9, 2014 by Krause