2080 and 2080 Ti

[von_Tom]

First reviews are out and are all pretty positive though they all say the things are flippin' expensive.

 

If anyone gets one delivered in the next day or two, please share your thoughts on how it affects the fps in VR in IL2.

 

Ta

 

von Tom

[=ILS=_ppph]

 @Jason_Williams It would be really cool if the new technology (DLSS) with Nvidia 20 series can be added to the game. I am not sure how much it would impact or improve the VR experience, but it would work out quite well for a lot of us not matter what method he is playing on.

[dburne]

No idea when my EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra that I pre-ordered will be here, since it is a custom PCB may take longer I suppose.

[=ILS=_ppph]

I think we would have to be patient here for the VR review on this, but you should be able to source some information on  some websites (like youtube) for this matter. I think the DLSS is the only new gadget that is brought in by the new graphic cards in a meaningful way. (It can be added on with reasonable cost? ) On the other hand ray tracing can not even run at 1080p at 60 frames per sec.  Also NVLINK is the way to go as well depending on its review if you do want the best experience.

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by III./JG5_ppph

[Alonzo]

I think we shouldn't expect any game engine upgrades to take account of these new cards. DLSS in particular is really speculative for a game like this. It's such niche tech that I find it pretty unlikely the IL2 developers would spend time to incorporate it, unless it's as simple as flipping a switch in-engine. I'm basically evaluating the RXT cards as higher horsepower versions of existing cards -- do they have the rendering grunt to support IL2 at 90fps at particular graphics settings? 

 

The biggest overhaul that IL2 needs to perform better is to be less CPU limited -- the VR scaling spreadsheet shows just how crazy your CPU needs to be, and even on my own 8086k @ 5ghz I can measure a significant difference for each extra 100mhz I give the game. I find that looking at the 0.1% low rather than overall average FPS is actually the best measure, because the hard 90 cap means that rigs will asymptotically approach 90 average.

 

All that said, I am absolutely on tenterhooks waiting for someone with IL2 to install one of these new cards and give us some comparative numbers vs the previous generation.

[dburne]

The new Nvidia drivers are out for the RTX cards- 411.63.

VR is mentioned also in the driver notes.

 

Says compatible with previous cards also, may get gutsy and try these. If I get a tracking number on my new card very soon though I may hold off.

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by dburne

[Alonzo]

2 minutes ago, dburne said:

If I get a tracking number on my new card very soon though I may hold off.

 

Which card did you order?

[dburne]

Just now, Alonzo said:

 

Which card did you order?

 

EVGA RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra.

[dburne]

Looks like the 2080 Ti's are showing some nice VR benchmark increases over the 1080 Ti's

https://hothardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-rtx-performance-and-overclocking?page=4

 

Of course remains to be seen what they do for us for combat flight sims in VR.

 

 

"The Turning-based GeForce RTX cards performed very well in our VR Marks tests as well. The GeForce RTX 2080 Ti obliterated every other card we tested and sits alone at the top of the heap, followed by the various RTX 2080 cards, which outpaced the Titan Xp by about 10%."
 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by dburne

[BeastyBaiter]

Gamers Nexus is showing the GTX 2080 = the GTX 1080 Ti across the board, which is problem given the 2080 costs around $200 more and runs hotter (thus more noise). The 2080 Ti is definitely around 25% faster than the 1080 Ti, but at roughly double the price, I'm not sure how meaningful that is.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by BeastyBaiter

[Wulfen]

9 minutes ago, BeastyBaiter said:

Gamers Nexus is showing the GTX 2080 = the GTX 1080 Ti across the board, which is problem given the 2080 costs around $200 more and runs hotter (thus more noise). The 2080 Ti is definitely around 25% faster than the 1080 Ti, but at roughly double the price, I'm not sure how meaningful that is.

Hence why Nvidia were extremely quiet on benchmarks while dazzling people with bells and whistles that by the time they are the norm, the 2080, 2080ti etc. will be outdated by a new release. Best to skip the 20 series I think.

It`s the CV2 that we need asap with a better FOV and foveated rendering taking the load of the gpu.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Wulfen

[chiliwili69]

9 minutes ago, Wulfen said:

Best to skip the 20 series I think.

It`s the CV2 that we need asap with a better FOV and foveated rendering taking the load of the gpu.

 

Agreed. For the Pimax 8K-X we will need more than 25% more delivered by 2080ti.

Regarding CV2, don´t hold your breath. The Rifters as been excluded from the live sessions of Oculus Connect next monday. Only mobile stuff will watch live stream. This a clue about waht you could expect for OC. Oculus forgot their roots!

[dburne]

4 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Agreed. For the Pimax 8K-X we will need more than 25% more delivered by 2080ti.

Regarding CV2, don´t hold your breath. The Rifters as been excluded from the live sessions of Oculus Connect next monday. Only mobile stuff will watch live stream. This a clue about waht you could expect for OC. Oculus forgot their roots!

 

Rifters will be able to watch OC5 in Rift Core 2.0 beta with embedded dash panels.

While we may or may not get any solid info at OC5, we have seen the Half Dome prototype and know what they are working towards. So I do not think they are leaving PC-VR behind, maybe just not getting to the next gen as soon as we all would like.

Edited September 19, 2018 by dburne

[chiliwili69]

Just to be clear: For the Rift/Vive with a 1080 you will never be bottlenecked by GPU in IL-2 VR.

For the VivePro/Odyssey with a 1080Ti you will never be bottlenecked by GPU in IL-2 VR.

For Pimax5K+/8K we need to test them, but apparently a 1080Ti could be OK for normal FOV.

3 minutes ago, dburne said:

Rifters will be able to watch OC5 in Rift Core 2.0 beta with embedded dash panels.

 

Then these news are false:

https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-connect-vr-livestreams-coming-to-gear-vr-and-go-but-rift-users-get-left-out/

Edited September 19, 2018 by chiliwili69

[Wulfen]

2 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Agreed. For the Pimax 8K-X we will need more than 25% more delivered by 2080ti.

Regarding CV2, don´t hold your breath. The Rifters as been excluded from the live sessions of Oculus Connect next monday. Only mobile stuff will watch live stream. This a clue about waht you could expect for OC. Oculus forgot their roots!

Oculus are working on the tech, we have seen how far they have come, but it will be 2019 before we see it. As for the Pimax 8k X, I`m not convinced re the quality or tech and will let others jump into that pool. The rift has proven well built and delivered on what it promised as a Gen 1 unit. I`ll wait for the Gen 2 version, the 20 series are way overpriced for their performance and just look best avoided until the tech has matured and reduced in price with the next series.

[dburne]

5 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

Just to be clear: For the Rift/Vive with a 1080 you will never be bottlenecked by GPU in IL-2 VR.

For the VivePro/Odyssey with a 1080Ti you will never be bottlenecked by GPU in IL-2 VR.

For Pimax5K+/8K we need to test them, but apparently a 1080Ti could be OK for normal FOV.

 

Then these news are false:

https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-connect-vr-livestreams-coming-to-gear-vr-and-go-but-rift-users-get-left-out/

 

More Ways to Watch
We’ll host 2D livestreams of the keynotes and esports events on a number of channels. You can watch the live keynotes on the Oculus Facebook page, while fb.gg/vrleague is your one-stop shop for all things esports. If you own a Rift and are running the Rift Core 2.0 beta, put those embedded Dash panels to good use and invite some friends over to watch our live OC5 coverage in VR with a Group Hang-Out!
We’ll also share recordings of even more OC5 content including tech talks, panels, and more on our YouTube channel—be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss a beat.

8 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

Just to be clear: For the Rift/Vive with a 1080 you will never be bottlenecked by GPU in IL-2 VR.

For the VivePro/Odyssey with a 1080Ti you will never be bottlenecked by GPU in IL-2 VR.

For Pimax5K+/8K we need to test them, but apparently a 1080Ti could be OK for normal FOV.

 

 

Pretty sure my new 2080 Ti GPU will not be a bottleneck either...

[TP_Merlin]

It's looking like 5K + is the one to go for, there are only 400 x 8Kx due to be produced. MRTV maxed out the Super sampling and still stands by his initial review. Sweviver says same except for IL2 BoS due to LoD at distance for id of aircraft.

[Wulfen]

7 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

Just to be clear: For the Rift/Vive with a 1080 you will never be bottlenecked by GPU in IL-2 VR.

For the VivePro/Odyssey with a 1080Ti you will never be bottlenecked by GPU in IL-2 VR.

For Pimax5K+/8K we need to test them, but apparently a 1080Ti could be OK for normal FOV.

 

Then these news are false:

https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-connect-vr-livestreams-coming-to-gear-vr-and-go-but-rift-users-get-left-out/

I wouldn`t watch on the rift even if it was an option, just let me know when the CV2 is released. 

[chiliwili69]

3 minutes ago, Wulfen said:

I wouldn`t watch on the rift even if it was an option

Me too but I will watch OC just in monitor just to know what they say about the PC guys.

I am a true lover of the Rift but I want to experience myself with the new Pimax 8K (or perhaps 5K+). The large FOV must be a game changer.

If the Pimax convince me then I will sell my Rift. If not I will sell the Pimax. Loosing money, perhaps, but in VR I prefer to trust in my own impressions.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

47 minutes ago, BeastyBaiter said:

Gamers Nexus is showing the GTX 2080 = the GTX 1080 Ti across the board, which is problem given the 2080 costs around $200 more and runs hotter (thus more noise).

Not to mention that it has less VRAM. I know that that rarely matters in gaming, but when it does, it’s a major headache.

[Wulfen]

5 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

Me too but I will watch OC just in monitor just to know what they say about the PC guys.

I am a true lover of the Rift but I want to experience myself with the new Pimax 8K (or perhaps 5K+). The large FOV must be a game changer.

If the Pimax convince me then I will sell my Rift. If not I will sell the Pimax. Loosing money, perhaps, but in VR I prefer to trust in my own impressions.

I hope it works out well for you and you come back to us with a good review, it will be appreciated. Competition is good for VR, so the more units on offer the better.

[BeastyBaiter]

4 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

Not to mention that it has less VRAM. I know that that rarely matters in gaming, but when it does, it’s a major headache.

 

That is a big concern I have. DCS maxes out the 11GB my 1080 Ti has, I strongly suspect DCS will be among the games where the 1080 Ti actually beats the 2080. I'm sure the 2080 Ti is faster, but as said, given the huge price increase for a fairly modest performance increase (and same amount of VRAM), it simply isn't justifiable.

 

In regards to maxing out your GPU in BoX in VR. It absolutely can be done. I run SS at 1.3 because anything above that will max my 1080 Ti at times and drop it below 90 fps.

[Alonzo]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Looks like the 2080 Ti's are showing some nice VR benchmark increases over the 1080 Ti's

https://hothardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-rtx-performance-and-overclocking?page=4

 

Of course remains to be seen what they do for us for combat flight sims in VR.

 

It's an interesting benchmark but I'd be really curious how it maps to real games. Someone was saying (maybe on Discord) that IL2 doesn't do single pass stereo, which is an optimization for VR, and that benchmark likely does do all the fancy optimization stuff... I get why the IL2 devs used OpenVR/SteamVR as their target platform, but it always makes me worry that there isn't a native Oculus version, since it shaves precious milliseconds off your render times and IL2 needs all the help it can get.

[Wulfen]

I`d hazard a guess that the majority of VR users here are rift owners, it seems a tad crazy that Il2 devs don`t give us the native option. There are plenty of software tricks to improve VR performance but games devs feel it not worth their time. For flight and driving sim devs, it really should be a priority.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Wulfen

[dburne]

21 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

It's an interesting benchmark but I'd be really curious how it maps to real games. Someone was saying (maybe on Discord) that IL2 doesn't do single pass stereo, which is an optimization for VR, and that benchmark likely does do all the fancy optimization stuff... I get why the IL2 devs used OpenVR/SteamVR as their target platform, but it always makes me worry that there isn't a native Oculus version, since it shaves precious milliseconds off your render times and IL2 needs all the help it can get.

 

Yeah I so wish we had native Oculus support for this sim. Pretty sure it would really help it gain some traction with the Rift users also. There are quite a few that I feel that don't really consider it for that reason. I would not even have Steam but for having to use Steam VR for this sim.

 

Oculus is pretty much ahead of everyone now in the number of units sold from what I understand.

 

[=ILS=_ppph]

I am still very much looking forward to seeing your benchmarks on the BOX as it only mentioned roughly 25-35% performance gain on the new 2080TI compared to 1080TI. @dburne

[von_Tom]

 

This comparison seems much more helpful to me especially as I am going from a 1080.  Across the board the 2080Ti appears to give double or near to double fps improvements and if that translates to VR then I'll be very happy:

 

 

 

von Tom

[chiliwili69]

One thing I don´t understand is why they don´t overlap the four trendlines in a chart and don´t make us following the changing numbers...

 

In any case, this is for a game which is bottlenecked by GPU. This is not the case of IL-2 in VR where the bottleneck is CPU. So no benefit at all from 20 series for IL-2 VR.

23 hours ago, BeastyBaiter said:

I run SS at 1.3 because anything above that will max my 1080 Ti at times and drop it below 90 fps.

 

When you say 1.3, do you refer to OTT 1.3 Pixel density or to 1.3 (130%) SteamVR?

 

Please, let me know what settings/plane/scenario is bringing your GPU to 100% load. Verify that your actual rendering resolution with Oculur mirror.

Mine is normally at 60-65% load with SteamVR SS at 180%

[BeastyBaiter]

SteamVR, I do not and have never had OTT or oculus mirror installed since wiping the SSD. And just to be clear,  it doesn't run 100% all the time. It tends to run at 50% and go up to ~90% when the action gets heavy. The goal is to keep the spikes under 100% as that's when FPS dips occur. Obviously, there isn't anything I can do about CPU bound situations, but that doesn't occur all that often tbh. It does come close at times though, 90%+ on a single thread is pretty common. I mostly play the career mode.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

One thing I don´t understand is why they don´t overlap the four trendlines in a chart and don´t make us following the changing numbers...

 

In any case, this is for a game which is bottlenecked by GPU. This is not the case of IL-2 in VR where the bottleneck is CPU. So no benefit at all from 20 series for IL-2 VR.

 

 

We shall see soon enough.

Edited September 21, 2018 by dburne

[TheSNAFU]

These cards look mighty but the price...Ouch! 

[BeastyBaiter]

Well, the 2080 isn't very mighty given that it costs more than the 1080 Ti and isn't any faster.

[von_Tom]

8 hours ago, dburne said:

 

We shall see soon enough.

 

Quite.  For me draw distance went up, fps went down.  That's a graphics thing.  When I look at a GPU monitor it is pretty much at max in VR.

 

It is also interesting that with heavy clouds and a single enemy the fps is markedly lower than say clear skies with many bombers i.e. it seems obvious to me that there is a GPU restriction.

 

von Tom 

[Alonzo]

6 hours ago, von_Tom said:

It is also interesting that with heavy clouds and a single enemy the fps is markedly lower than say clear skies with many bombers i.e. it seems obvious to me that there is a GPU restriction.

 

I thought that, but if you look at the in-game render timings, the IL2 application is spending a lot of time before handing off to the GPU to complete the frame. Try running Oculus Debug Tool, set Visible Hud to 'performance' and then the mode to 'App Render Timing'. On my rig the app (IL2) was using 9-10ms most of the time. We only have 11ms in order to maintain 90fps, so if IL2 itself takes longer than 11ms there's no way to maintain 90fps no matter how fast your GPU. Try looking at this in different conditions (heavy clouds vs not):

 

[Jackrabbit710]

Anyone tried with a 2080ti yet? Looks like mine is delayed another week, will report back as soon as it’s here!

[dburne]

Mine is a custom  card ( EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra) so I don't expect I will be seeing it for a bit yet.

[=ILS=_ppph]

the AIB 2080 TI cards have been pushed back for another week,(27th/sep) not surprised if it comes late.

[chiliwili69]

On 9/21/2018 at 2:16 AM, BeastyBaiter said:

And just to be clear,  it doesn't run 100% all the time. It tends to run at 50% and go up to ~90% when the action gets heavy. The goal is to keep the spikes under 100% as that's when FPS dips occur.

 

Using the same settings than the benchmark (High, 150%SS, shadows medium, clouds medium,  etc) I have monitored the GPU load and few other variables with MSI afterburner with the BOM carrer mode. The CPU at 4.8 GHz with 1.29 volt.

 

You will see that the max peak is at 75%, with steady values around 40%-60%. So it is not bottleneck at all. That´s why I think the new 2080Ti will not help me with my current Rift. For the Pimax 5K+ or 8K then the story could be totally different.

 

So people with Rift and 1080 or 1080Ti shouldn´t upgrade their GPU until they have a Pimax 5K+ or 8K or Oculus CV2 and really check that their GPU is the bottleneck. Of course, everybody can burnt their money as they want...

 

[SCG_motoadve]

Thanks and good to know.

Any ideas when the Pimax 6K+ will come out?

[chiliwili69]

4 hours ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Any ideas when the Pimax 6K+ will come out?

 

http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/when-do-preorders-open-up-for-the-pimax-5k/8403

 

The devices of the Kickstarter will be shipped from October to December. Few of the backers are selling their backer ticket on ebay. They are in the forum:

http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/backer-459-forsale-on-ebay/8301

 

Very high prices!! That´s crazy