No Cockpit?

[BroGrimm1tkcamp]

Flying for years I have used this option in IL2 1946. The benefit I have seen, is my Grandson used it for a while till he got used to flying. He is now hooked on the Sim. But it helped him early through the learning curve. We have many things available that are not realistic. I don't think that is a good argument.

I would rather the Devs be concerned about other improvements. Since this is not something I would need now.....but I do see a benefit 

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Options are the key. Some people think that it is only a sim if it is replicating real life to as close as a degree as possible but this is not true. I sim in this context is a tool that can be used to replicate certain behaviour with the aim of teaching or for us having fun. Having options like helpers or views is just adding another tool. So actually adding more options only make it more of a sim not less of one.

[Nil]

1 hour ago, tkcamp56tkcamp said:

Flying for years I have used this option in IL2 1946. The benefit I have seen, is my Grandson used it for a while till he got used to flying. He is now hooked on the Sim. But it helped him early through the learning curve. We have many things available that are not realistic. I don't think that is a good argument.

I would rather the Devs be concerned about other improvements. Since this is not something I would need now.....but I do see a benefit 

This story shows how much it helps to increasing simulator accessibility (what Jason Wants)

 

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

Heck, why stop with just invisible planes... let's push for invisible tanks too!

 

Right, I said invisible tanks! Who enjoys the restrictive views out of the tank slits or hatches. That darn tank gets in our visual way.  Yuch… too much visual restriction. Just make the whole thing invisible! That way we will have a full 360 degree visibility and also won't have to deal with any tank hatches obstructing our view. Oh Yea, with an invisible tank I can really learn to be a great tanker without actually having to deal with the immersion of being in a simulated tank. This is a great idea. Let's go for it.

 

Yea, right. ?

[mort]

As was pointed out earlier in the thread, more options often means an increased QA surface area which means more resources required to fully test builds. Whether or not that would be the case for this feature is not really knowable by anyone without detailed knowledge of the product's implementation. I always see the "the more options the better" and "why not as long as it's an option" responses on threads like this. I get why it would seem that way at first for those that haven't been involved in software development, but options are almost never zero cost and usually that cost is a recurring one.

[Herne]

12 minutes ago, TG1_Nil said:

This story shows how much it helps to increasing simulator accessibility (what Jason Wants)

 

 

Warthunder is accessible, and IL2 will never compete with WT for popularity. After a few hundred hours in WT, once players have dabbled with the sim mode and find it lacking for whatever reasons, they find out about IL2, and realise what they've been missing out on.

 

On the Flip side of the coin, this new "accessible" mode should it ever be introduced, has some enthusiastic videos doing the rounds on YT. IL2 will be seen negatively to people in the FS community because they will dismiss it as an arcade game with cockpits.

 

so yes there may be interest for a new audience, but there is also the potential to harm its reputation among the flight sim audience.

 

How we feel about the feature doesn't really matter. It's the dev studio's train set, and I'm just happy they built it and let me play with it. I'm sure they will do whatever they feel is in the best interest for the franchise.

[SYN_Mike77]

8 hours ago, =FEW=Herne said:

 

Seeing is believing, although to be fair this is not a true representation. Some quality editing is also going on here to give it really authentic feel.

This is freaking awesome!  It could pass for authentic.

[LukeFF]

Hmm, clickpits, no-cockpit view, and swastika topics all within the last week. Must be a full moon out. 

[JonRedcorn]

4 hours ago, Thad said:

Salutations,

 

Heck, why stop with just invisible planes... let's push for invisible tanks too!

 

Right, I said invisible tanks! Who enjoys the restrictive views out of the tank slits or hatches. That darn tank gets in our visual way.  Yuch… too much visual restriction. Just make the whole thing invisible! That way we will have a full 360 degree visibility and also won't have to deal with any tank hatches obstructing our view. Oh Yea, with an invisible tank I can really learn to be a great tanker without actually having to deal with the immersion of being in a simulated tank. This is a great idea. Let's go for it.

 

Yea, right. ?

Who care's how people enjoy the game in singleplayer? Does it have absolutely any affect on you? No? I didn't think so. Hell might as well ban any and all modding too since we can't have people playing the game in any way you wouldn't, right?

Edited August 13, 2018 by 15th_JonRedcorn

[Thad]

I couldn't care less how others enjoy the game in singleplayer but I do care about the developers possibly wasting time, resources and effort providing needless arcade functionality to their simulation.  ? 

[G_GART]

Maybe that's what you're looking for and needed!

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/38942-alternative-gun-camera-mod/

[Nil]

6 hours ago, =FEW=Herne said:

so yes there may be interest for a new audience, but there is also the potential to harm its reputation among the flight sim audience.

I do not understand why it can do some "harm" as it is optional , not mandatory, like the labels, or the aiming help.

I know myself, I would never use it as I love cockpits (I consider them almost like a piece of Art)

But I am not selfish and I care for others.

How a community welcome beginners tells a lot about this community, and invisible cockpit will help beginners to enters in the world of simulation like the example of  @tkcamp56tkcamp grandson.

Now this is just my opinion

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Hmm, clickpits, no-cockpit view, and swastika topics all within the last week. Must be a full moon out. 

@LukeFF, sorry I do not understand what you mean.

Edited August 13, 2018 by TG1_Nil

[SharpeXB]

I have never understood the appeal of a no-cockpit view or why it was ever created. The only use I can possibly imagine would be for cockpit builders. It’s not a feature that makes the game easier, far from it, not being able to see your own aircraft is really disorienting. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by SharpeXB

[Ribbon]

Why not if ppl want it, as long it stays out of the servers i fly!

It is just an option for me which i won't use, so i don't get others going hard against it.....don't we want bigger community?

Sooo; personally NO but if it's going to please others and won't affect BoBp and  upcoming PTO development or overall game performance, let them be!

[unreasonable]

4 hours ago, Thad said:

I couldn't care less how others enjoy the game in singleplayer but I do care about the developers possibly wasting time, resources and effort providing needless arcade functionality to their simulation.  ? 

 

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I have never understood the appeal of a no-cockpit view or why it was ever created. The only use I can possibly imagine would be for cockpit builders. It’s not a feature that makes the game easier, far from it, not being able to see your own aircraft is really disorienting. 

 

External cameras are useful for movie makers, and some kind of no cockpit view is needed for gun cameras.  You may not make movies or want to use it, but for others it is neither needless, arcade or wasted time. It can only be used if spectators are allowed in difficulty settings so no more threat to MP "fairness" than any other external view.

 

While it took me only a few minutes to change to a WW view by editing text files, this is a bit fiddly for some people with less PC experience.  The developers could easily change one of the external views to be a gun camera view by default: really they should have done this from the beginning and saved users the trouble, and avoided these threads and all the misguided comments.

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, TG1_Nil said:

LukeFF, sorry I do not understand what you mean.

 

It's a figure of speech to mean only strange / unommon things happen when there is a full moon out.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I'm personally all for it. It's probably not on the priority list but as an OPTIONAL feature I can see no reason why not to develop it.

 

It doesn't water the game down at all but it may make things a bit easier for some players. We should never deride that process as new people come in. Some will want to go all the way to the max level right away and others are just learning to fly for the first time. We want all of those people and should accept all of those people because eventually they become us.

 

I'll admit it. When I started IL-2 Sturmovik back in... 2001? Around there anyways. I flew virtual cockpit for a while. I knew I wanted to stick with the full cockpit eventually but I needed some help at first to get a really good feel for bullet deflection and the like. I got it and slowly I transitioned into more serious types of gameplay. Now I wouldn't want it (except for movie making - I'll take any perspective option I can get) but that's ok.

[1./KG4_ArthurMimo]

I understand if people fear the additional QA effort. 

 

 

I don't quite understand why people make this about realism/multiplayer/not being hardcore enough. This game also has external cameras,  target-view cameras, aim assist, automatic engine controls, markers, and last but not least unlimited ammo/fuel options. All of these can be disabled in multiplayer and hand-picked for single player. I would be delighted if someone could explain to me (without patronizing or implying weakness or incompetence in other players) how a 'wonderwoman' camera option is detrimental to their game play if all these other options aren't.

Edited August 14, 2018 by 1./KG4_ArthurMimo

[LizLemon]

On 8/13/2018 at 2:59 PM, moosya said:

Isn't there already a camera view that allows you to 'pin' yourself to the tail and fly from there? What exactly is a "no cockpit" view in question?  Or more like pin yourself to the nose of the aircraft? You can sort of do it via the gun camera ...

 

I mean I can how this can be used if it's the player is really novice and tries to understand how to play the game. Start from the arcade mode and then work it down to the sim. Aka use the external view, unlimited ammo (for aiming training). But building the game around these options.. that'll kind of defeat the purpose.

 

 

Yes, and it is easy to make it wonder woman like

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by LizLemon

[Mysticpuma]

6 hours ago, LizLemon said:

 

Yes, and it is easy to make it wonder woman like

 

 

Is it possible to remove the crosshair too? 

[unreasonable]

Not sure if the crosshair is mouse aim  - but it is not there in my game. The external camera views have nothing to do with difficulty except that you must have "allow spectators" ticked.  So if you want you can have a completely clean screen with no HUD or map: just the forwards view from just in front of the propeller.

Edited August 15, 2018 by unreasonable

[Trek64Trek64]

If you can fly this "sim" in third person outside the plane, how is that more realistic than first person with absolutely no cock pit graphics?   If you fly FSX or P3D, there are certain planes that have this option.  How does that reduce the hard core nature of the sim for those who elect not to use it in single player mode?

On 8/15/2018 at 2:16 AM, Mysticpuma said:

 

Is it possible to remove the crosshair too? 

How did you create that view?

[Mysticpuma]

1 hour ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

If you can fly this "sim" in third person outside the plane, how is that more realistic than first person with absolutely no cock pit graphics?   If you fly FSX or P3D, there are certain planes that have this option.  How does that reduce the hard core nature of the sim for those who elect not to use it in single player mode?

How did you create that view?

 

I didn't, LizLemon did.