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The future of Clod after v5.00, just a few thoughts.

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On 8/6/2018 at 6:24 PM, ZachariasX said:

So far liking Cliffs is like liking the vi editor. 

No. It doesn't get better than Vi(m). :ph34r:

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I have to agree, when it comes to unix / linux. Vi / vim is my editor of choice ;)
 

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On 8/6/2018 at 8:36 AM, InProgress said:

No they should not, because it has it's fan base and it's just a dik move to think about BoX as godlike product that deserves to exist and throw away CloD.

 

Clod is actually way more detailed and can handle way more... Clickable cockpits, planes are modeled inside (better damage model, better damage visuals), 4 engine planes like Focke-Wulf Fw 200 Condor, 200 players server, can handle bigger number of planes at once, bombing require considering alt of airfield you are taking off from and place you are bombing (not simply looking at altimeter and done)

 

How the hell is clod hurting box? You people can keep saying that... but box would not go to africa or anywhere near it in next 5 or more years. So it does not hurt anything. And i am pretty sure 777 will be happier to stay in pacific that will be top seller than going to africa that most people dont know or like. After pacific we will probably go back to russia for a bit and expand west front with normandy and maybe some 1944 ostfront in poland and battle of berlin in 1945. So before devs would be even able to do africa, it would be like... 10 years? And i will always prefer pacific/russia as many expansion as possible than "here is one italy expansion and there one africa etc".

 

What they do now is the best option, i just hope BoBP wont be alone expansion on the west.

some people like BOS some people like Cliffs of Dover

Edited by II./JG27_Rich

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13 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

And some people (like me) like them both  :)

 

 

does cliffs get much stick time from you atm trooper ? I might need to pick your brains later

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I played Blitz last in March... although I have had CloD from the start.

I did a reinstall and got all my hotas set up etc... did about 15hrs of gameplay, but as I tend to concentrate on SP, I decided to bin it until version 5 is released

as the SP element is still pretty much naffed.

That along with a comms system that is still broken pretty much stopped me from continuing... having said that I am really looking forward to the next version

as North Africa is my favourite theatre, plus the fixes coming for SP and comms elements will pull me straight back in  :)

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On 8/6/2018 at 2:38 PM, Space_Ghost said:

What it differentiates from Cliffs currently is that it actually mostly works.

Every time I read this sort of comment, I wonder if I'm playing the same game. "Unplayable," "Broken," "Boring single player," "Outdated graphics,".....etc, etc.

I run this all the time. It is, FOR ME, one of the most realistic air combat sims I've ever played, and I've been doing this since the mid-nineties. What doesn't work? I don't get it. What is it that isn't working?

I pick the bomber intercept over London mission, and I'm in a sky filled with Spitfires, Hurricanes, '109's and HE-111's. Contrails all over the sky, planes going down, anti-aircraft bursts. And all of this over the sprawling London map. It's incredible, to me. Amazingly real, and under one of the best looking skies I've seen in a flight sim. Add clickable cockpits and realistic battle damage, not decals, and I think it's pretty damn good. I'm very much looking forward to 5.0.

When I land after a particularly wild mission, I roll back the hood and always think, "Damn, that felt real!" I don't get that with BOX. Not knocking the sim...I'm enjoying it. But that feeling of reality isn't there for me. CLOD does that. For me, anyway. 

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It's entirely evident that everybody's millage varies.

 

I spent 500 hours in Cliffs, flew with one of the largest, most organized and active squadrons in the community, cut my teeth in simming in Cliffs and I don't get what you get with Cliffs.

 

A bit of an aside but since it was brought up, again, in relation to Cliffs... Clicking a fuel petcock isn't a full-function clickpit (again... been there, done that...) and the validity of clickpits as an element of immersion is debatable and has been debated to the nth degree for well over a decade by this point. Clickpits don't do it for me and mousing around is considerably more immersion breaking that pressing, poking, sliding or manipulating a HOTAS button. I'd argue that HOTAS buttons are considerably more immersive and a better representation of a pilot's muscle/system/procedural memory in the cockpit.

 

Cliffs does have a pretty solid systems DM and a far superior visual DM - I've always given it that and would appreciate more attention to that detail in BOX.

 

Personally, I have never fully understood the praise for Cliffs' graphics - I don't think there's anything astoundingly special about Cliffs' graphics or anything considerably more "standout" than BOX - especially with the regressive effects mucking they did with Blitz.

 

And after hundreds of hours in major squadron exercises with nearly 100 other players, the on the rails flight models, poor ground modeling, lack of convincing atmospheric modeling and the things that MAKE the FLIGHT portion of a combat FLIGHT simulator pretty much sealed the deal.

 

What bothers me is there is always this inferred "lack of experience" like I haven't played the damn thing - nah, I have been there, I have done that and I don't think there is anything particularly stunning about Cliffs. For me, anyway.

 

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11 minutes ago, Space_Ghost said:

I have done that and I don't think there is anything particularly stunning about Cliffs. For me, anyway.

 

TF worked wonders on a dud over the years but from a personal view point Cliffs just doesn't do it for me anymore. I loaded up CLOD a few weeks ago and just though nope, it just doesn't cut the mustard anymore. I sincerely hope that 5.0 is a success but I will wait and see how it turns out before getting too excited about it.  That being said there is always room enough for several WWII flight sims in what is a niche market.

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9 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

That being said there is always room enough for several WWII flight sims in what is a niche market.

Yes, and I'm waiting on pins and needles for the BOX P-47. Space, good answer and yeah, "Everybody's mileage varies." That's what makes the world go round.

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If and when they ever add VR support to Cliffs I will install it again and enjoy it again I guess.

It would be nice to have it  as another option to my single player combat flight sim action, maybe by then all the single player weaknesses will be ironed out.

If not no big deal, I certainly have plenty to keep me busy already as it is.

 

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Ditto - trying to figure out how to fly it, but will never go back to flatscreen. I love the idea/complement what's out there (i.e.BOX and CloD) that's equivalent, so 1940/41 updated CloD BOB - 1941/1942 BOM -1942 CloD Afrika - 1942/43 BOS - 1943 BOK - 1944 BOBpl(who knows? Germans are on the defense, seems a bit one sided? Not sure this is good... bought it anyway...). Ball's in their court, so to speak... just waiting... and waiting... and waiting...

 

Spanish civil war and Poland would add the rest of Europe, as well as 1943 Italy? Then it's just maps?

 

If you want 1945 where the Allies just rape Germany, it's not that exciting after the first two times you play it... 

Edited by 1./JG54_Schneemann

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12 hours ago, dburne said:

If and when they ever add VR support to Cliffs I will install it again and enjoy it again I guess.

It would be nice to have it  as another option to my single player combat flight sim action, maybe by then all the single player weaknesses will be ironed out.

If not no big deal, I certainly have plenty to keep me busy already as it is.

 

 

BoB in VR with a career mode worthy of the ones we have in BoX would have me more excited than a kid before christmas.

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OP asked what they should do after 5.0...they should not do what they're probably going to do. Meaning, there's nothing wrong on adding on to the med and the map they will already be creating, but after that, they should not go later. They should go EARLIER. Very few times has there been a representation of the battle of france, and the aircraft in it. This would have several advantages. Some of the aircraft already exist, or will exist. Parts of the map already exist and could be used. It would be unique and interesting, to have French aircraft added in and that theater shown. 

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25 minutes ago, No.615_Kai_Lae said:

OP asked what they should do after 5.0...they should not do what they're probably going to do. Meaning, there's nothing wrong on adding on to the med and the map they will already be creating, but after that, they should not go later. They should go EARLIER. Very few times has there been a representation of the battle of france, and the aircraft in it. This would have several advantages. Some of the aircraft already exist, or will exist. Parts of the map already exist and could be used. It would be unique and interesting, to have French aircraft added in and that theater shown. 

We are adding the Dewoitine D.520 for TF 5.0, so there will be an option to fly this aircraft for the French, (with their markings) on the Channel map in 1940 scenarios.  I think people will find this to be a very competitive aircraft in 1940.  It had excellent high speed maneuverability, much better than the Spitfire I/II or 109E's.  It was one of the first types with all metal ailerons.

 

A later high altitude model of the D.520 was flown by Vichy pilots vs the British in the Middle East during the liberation of Syria by the Free French and British.  We will be including this later model in TF 5.0.

 

The same planes were taken over by the Axis after Vichy was dissolved and many were later flown by the Italians in the defense of Sicily... it was at the time one of the only aircraft available to the Italians which had 20mm weapons... so it was used as a bomber interceptor versus USAAC B-17 raids.

 

And finally, the Bulgarian air force also received many of the later model D.520's... they were used as interceptors versus B-24 raids... and engaged in combats versus the USAAC P-38 escorts.

 

Also, both the Gloster Gladiator, Fiat CR-42, (added in TF 5.0)  and Hawker Hurricane were flown by the Belgians in 1940.  So theoretically there will be the option to use these aircraft for an imaginative mission builder.


(although most of the Belgian air force was destroyed on the ground in the first few days)

 

We will be adding Belgian markings for TF 5.0.

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D520 is a start, but what I have in mind is a aircraft lineup like you find for the RAF currently. Plus the map doesn't cover sedan or the low countries. 

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3 minutes ago, No.615_Kai_Lae said:

D520 is a start, but what I have in mind is a aircraft lineup like you find for the RAF currently. Plus the map doesn't cover sedan or the low countries. 

D.520's arrived late in the Battle for France, so AFAIK they did not participate in the combats over Sedan.  The current Channel map is actually a good map for this aircraft.

 

We won't be expanding the NorthWest/Channel map for TF 5.0... but who knows what might happen after that?

 

All depends on the reception of TF 5.0... this might be our last module... or might be the first of many.

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One aspect I wonder about TF future expansions is how they will deal with splitting the playerbase with subsequent expansions, (like current Blitz vs 5.0 vs 6.0 etc etc), as the content and players would be separated by expansions, unless you can have servers allowing different expansions' content in the same mission for example (a guy with D.520 in 5.0 flying against a player in his 109E which didn't buy 5.0 in the same mission).

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One solution could be that the guys that didnt buy 5.0 simply just goes off to buy 5.0?

 

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6 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

One aspect I wonder about TF future expansions is how they will deal with splitting the playerbase with subsequent expansions, (like current Blitz vs 5.0 vs 6.0 etc etc), as the content and players would be separated by expansions, unless you can have servers allowing different expansions' content in the same mission for example (a guy with D.520 in 5.0 flying against a player in his 109E which didn't buy 5.0 in the same mission).

If you look around you'll see this has been answered already.

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8 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

One aspect I wonder about TF future expansions is how they will deal with splitting the playerbase with subsequent expansions, (like current Blitz vs 5.0 vs 6.0 etc etc), as the content and players would be separated by expansions, unless you can have servers allowing different expansions' content in the same mission for example (a guy with D.520 in 5.0 flying against a player in his 109E which didn't buy 5.0 in the same mission).

 

I can't really see this being a problem.  The player base at the moment has shrunk to the regulars.  Its unusual to see more than one hundred people world-wide playing CLoD at any one time.  These guys can't wait to install TF5.0 and fair enough too.  The game is crying out for new content.  The playerbase - as it exists at the moment - will simply move en masse to TF5.

 

The task for TFS is to attract as many as possible of the two-hundred thousand plus people who originally bought CLoD to buy TF5.0.

 

 

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Unfortunately I do not have the time required for flying COD , and you often encounter a well trained squad while lone wolfing in COD . I simply have not the time for such activities atm. I wish I did. Because flying in a squad in COD is the best WW2 experience I ever had. Map size and people flying COD already supports that. That is what COD is to me. 

BOX series is a lot more chaotic  and gives opportunities for lone wolfing pilots. I do not fly either of these since their Single player features do not suit me. I hope by the time Africa in Cod comes there will be much more improved SP, same with PTO in BOX . 

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20 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

 

All depends on the reception of TF 5.0... this might be our last module... or might be the first of many.

That's spooky :0 buying it first day, full price and hoping everyone will do that too. And hope box people will give it a chance as well.

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If the new update includes a way to get a heading in degrees while flying i might buy it again.

I got a refund on the clod steam purchase i made because i couldnt find a way to get a heading displayed on screen and the compass was blocked by the virtual pilots stick.

I might have stuck with trying to figure it out but with the refund deadline approaching fast i decided to request a refund rather than spend the time on a work around.

I dont usually support games that follow the paid dlc model and i dont plan on buying any extra planes for either il2 bos or il2 cod, should i choose to buy it again.

 

Edited by fogpipe

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13 hours ago, fogpipe said:

If the new update includes a way to get a heading in degrees while flying i might buy it again.

I got a refund on the clod steam purchase i made because i couldnt find a way to get a heading displayed on screen and the compass was blocked by the virtual pilots stick.

I might have stuck with trying to figure it out but with the refund deadline approaching fast i decided to request a refund rather than spend the time on a work around.

I dont usually support games that follow the paid dlc model and i dont plan on buying any extra planes for either il2 bos or il2 cod, should i choose to buy it again.

 

Hello Fogpipe

 

You are obviously speaking of the British aircraft compass positioning.

 

There were solutions which would have allowed you to see the compass to get a heading.

 

-  You could buy a TRACK IR system which would allow you to move you head and look around the joystick.

 

-  You could install one of the free headtracking systems out there which work nearly as well as TRACK IR.

 

-  You could program a head position.

 

In any case, before you takeoff, you should set up the compass correctly... you can do that on the ground by moving the stick aside without any issues with the aircraft maneuvering.

 

Please take the time to read the Beginner's Guide which can be found at these links:

 

 

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5058&p=52711

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I have a trackir and i prefer not to perform gymnastics in front of my computer.

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3 hours ago, fogpipe said:

I have a trackir and i prefer not to perform gymnastics in front of my computer.

???

 

If you have TrackIR, you can easily lean an inch to your right, select the tight view and see the compass.

 

No Gymnastics required.  😉

6 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

 

 

 

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Gymnastics!? I move my control stick two inches to the right. If you're too lazy to do that you should give up flight simming all together. Don't get rudder pedals. You'll actually have to move your legs. 

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It may be that your TrackIR  curves need adjusting so that it is more sensitive on the translation axes if it requires a large amount of movement to get the view to move ingame. 

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Is not impossible see RAF compass in CloD, but let's agree very awkward - even with TrackIR.

A "glance to compass" command (by press key or button) like exist in BoS - very well done, or DCS is needed.

 

 

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Not true at all , I use a second screen and have the instrument there . That is the way to do it

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13 hours ago, fogpipe said:

I have a trackir and i prefer not to perform gymnastics in front of my computer.

 

Really? ... So what was the point of buying a trackir if moving head a bit is such a huge problem?

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13 minutes ago, InProgress said:

 

 

Really? ... So what was the point of buying a trackir if moving head a bit is such a huge problem?

It isnt a huge problem, unless i have to crane my neck around and up and down to try to see something essential and the trackir curves im using work for virtually every other game that has all axis movement.

It would have been ok, and i would have liked to have kept the game, if the devs would have been smart enough to find a way to display a heading on screen for these aircraft.

 

And im not buying a second monitor to be able to play a game or move the stick to affect my flight path. If you guys want to take extraordinary measures to get basic functionality out of a game, thats fine with me, i prefer not to.

 

If there is a clod update that displays heading on screen, i would probably buy it, but there are too many good games out there to bother with such kludgy and clutzy design.

 

 

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You don't need to buy a second monitor.  Seeing the compass is not difficult if you have TRACK IR.

 

While obviously it is your choice to decide which games you want to buy... you are the first player I have seen who was incapable of learning how to view the compass... to the point of uninstalling the game... and CLIFFS has some 200,000 owners.

 

At the moment CLIFFS OF DOVER is designed for a level of realism which does not include heading displays.  While we won't exclude the possibility of adding such a feature, and we will look at the possibility, the community has expressed much more interest in new features such as VR... and we have to focus our limited time on what the majority requests.

 

Happy Skies.

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3 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

You don't need to buy a second monitor.  Seeing the compass is not difficult if you have TRACK IR.

 

While obviously it is your choice to decide which games you want to buy... you are the first player I have seen who was incapable of learning how to view the compass... to the point of uninstalling the game... and CLIFFS has some 200,000 owners.

 

 

Im not incapable of doing it, i just choose not to encourage such poor design and choose not to try to screw my neck around just to get a glance at a compass.

Every other flight sim i have played has a way to display heading on screen or a clearly visible compass, except clod.

You can defend it all you like and paint me as an idiot if you choose, the remark about my being incapable seems to me to border on the ad hominem, but i guess moderators can get away with that on this board, but again there is a reason that every other flight sim allows for a quick and easy way to get a heading or a quick glance at the compass.

There is a reason clod has mixed reviews and i bet it goes deeper than just the problem i had with it.

 

 

Edited by fogpipe
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17 minutes ago, fogpipe said:

 

Im not incapable of doing it, i just choose not to encourage such poor design and choose not to try to screw my neck around just to get a glance at a compass.

Every other flight sim i have played has a way to display heading on screen or a clearly visible compass, except clod.

You can defend it all you like and paint me as an idiot if you choose, the remark about my being incapable seems to me to border on the ad hominem, but again there is a reason that every other flight sim allows for a quick and easy way to get a heading or a quick glance at the compass.

There is a reason clod has mixed reviews and i bet it goes deeper than just the problem i had with it.

 

 

Hello Fogpipe

 

As I have mentioned previously... you don't need to screw your head around... if you set up the compass and heading before you take off and while your engine is warming up.

 

On the ground it is easy to move the stick aside and see the compass... and after you have set the compass up and corrected the heading dial... then you can just look at the heading dial... which is not blocked by the stick.... it is on the dash panel in front of you.

 

You clearly have not examined the game closely enough to understand this... there are many guides out there which explain just how to do this.

 

The real Spitfires and Hurricanes had a compass on the floor, that is where they are in the game.

 

You could also fly any of the Axis aircraft, which have compasses right in front of you.


As I mentioned, If you don't like the game, that is your choice.

 

But please don't attack it on the basis of misunderstandings on your own part.

 

This is the last comment on this issue I will make.  We have offered to look at the possibility of a displayed heading for those who don't like realism... that is as much as I can promise.

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On 8/5/2018 at 9:25 AM, Novice-Flyer said:

This is what I think the future of Cliffs will be:

TF 5.0- Tobruk-1941

TF 6.0- Malta (possibly Operation Torch and Tunisia)

TF 7.0- Sicily

TF 8.0- Normandy

Bonus- Finland, as the hurricane, Blenheim, and other British and French aircraft were loaned to the Finnish Air Force and participated in the war between Finland and USSR.

I think that's basically the right path. I think there should be a map of Germany in the mix somewhere in 1944-45. I think this sim is going to stick to the western front.

Edited by II./JG27_Rich

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22 hours ago, II./JG27_Rich said:

I think there should be a map of Germany in the mix somewhere in 1944-45.

Well, 1CGS is currently developing the Battle of Bodenplatte, which will portray Operation Market Garden to the allied advances after the Battle of the Bulge. It wouldn't really make much sense to just do 1 WW2 battle (involving planes) on the Western Front. I honestly believe that afterwards, 1C Game Studios will make the Battle of Berlin, and then who knows. But yeah, I believe that Normandy will be done by Team Fusion and not 1CGS because all of the action took place on the Channel map, and 1CGS has chosen not to make battles that TFS does as that would cannibalize the demand. Therefore, I believe that Normandy will be the last patch that Team Fusion makes regarding the Western Front. But that doesn't mean that TFS will end there.

 

Cheers.

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It would be quite cool tho. A map that starts in 1940 and last for 4 years. That would be one long career :> Would love to see that progress, starting with offensive at france, then flying across channel and then defending at france. When technology changes and from Bf109E1 you end up in Bf109G6 :]

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