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Mysticpuma

The future of Clod after v5.00, just a few thoughts.

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After v5. 00 is released and hopefully a success I think TFS  need to contemplate considerably shorter periods between releases and a similar strategy as BoX.

They have a huge map already, will also have North Africa and people want aircraft!

Buzzsaw already pointed out I  previous posts that without renegotiation of the current contract the only way we get v5. 00 is as an all or nothing expansion. It isn't ideal but that is the way it has to be. 

Personally I don't want a v.6.00, I would rather have small expansions (paid for) over much shorter periods. This could be a few vehicles, a couple of ships and 2-4 aircraft,  $25-35 at a time. It would be a steady stream of income and reduce considerably the waiting time for a huge v6, 00 expansion. 

There is little to no Community engagement except for sporadic updates and the latest post from Bonkin has produced barely any feedback across multiple forums. 8, replies here, 5 on Facebook, 53 on the official 1C forum, 37 at the home of TFS and 13 at Sow. 

I should add this is in no way down to Bonkin, it is just the general apathy from waiting so long with nothing to play with and reignite the community passion. 

I would suggest too that they consider release of a map tool to the community. The thing is, people do want to be involved and by offering a map tool to the community these could be added to the Sim for everyone to use, once they pass TFS quality control and placed under a GUI tab of "Community Content". There needs to be something to interest the wider community and even the modding community where their roots lie. 

I will be surprised if they expect the community to wait for years again for a large expansion as simply put there just won't be anyone left when it arrives.

 I realise BoX will have released it's Bodenplatte update and impressed a large part of the WW2 flying community with so many popular aircraft but TFS need to try and catch big chunk of the market too and I think this can only happen by introducing American aircraft.

I understand that they are focused on releasing progressive updates but if you look how long it has taken to get from 1940 to the end of 1941, it will be around 2026 before they get near 1945!!!

Personally I hope they reconsider their options and look at building a P-51B/C, P-47 Razorback and maybe a B-25. Something to grab the large untapped American Market which should bring some much needed finances to the table. There is also the decision to create the 190 A4, but with the above aircraft the A5 would be a better strategy?

Simply put, without the large American Market getting involved, I don't see them going much further than v5. 00 :(

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I agree, there's a lot that can be added to the current BOB map to cover fighting 1941-1944. Combined with a good SP career mode , of course.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Personally I don't want a v.6.00, I would rather have small expansions (paid for) over much shorter periods. This could be a few vehicles, a couple of ships and 2-4 aircraft,  $25-35 at a time. It would be a steady stream of income and reduce considerably the waiting time for a huge v6, 00 expansion. 

It would bring more hate just like now lots of people that see BoS cry about 20$ premium planes. If you look at other games like Train sim or Microsoft Flying Sim where they have spam of little dlc that cost 5-15$ or so. People hate it because there is so much dlc. I know it's stupid... there is no difference if you buy 5 planes for 10$ or would buy super plane expansion for only 50$!! But people are stupid and they need every single plane...

 

I think it would bring lots of hate and crying people that you have to pay for 3 planes small update.

3 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Community engagement

I think game needs steam workshop, it's a great way for people to upload and most important FIND mods, people don't like googling for stuff. You open workshop, see most popular mod list, new ones, most subscribed. It would make them more popular, from simple skins to scripted campaigns where all you need to do is click "Subscribe" and your mod is installed. I don't even know why BoX did not do that already.

 

3 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

I think this can only happen by introducing American aircraft.

You really think making expansion with usa will make americans buy game? I think it's kind of gaming myth that big company CEOs always use when making ww2 games.

"We must do d-day and normandy for 9000 time because this is what people would only buy and americans wont buy any ww2 game if they are not in it!"

 

Also aren't they making like P40 and Marlet? These are american. There are games that got really popular without any americans in it, Red Orchestra, Post Scriptum, Company of Heroes 2 (it got usa as dlc but before that, main game soviet vs germany was still huge success),

 

Edit: A bit off topic, I feel like this whole americans everywhere is a stupid as saying world war 1 is impossible to make it as game. I remember this talking, everyone was saying this. And then boom, VERDUN, small indie game that showed everyone ww1 game that even works as ww1 (not like battlefield 1 with everyone running around like ants) can be fun. I hope one day talking "we can't do german campaign because people will be butthurt and no one will buy it because no one wants to play as super evil nazi soldier." will go away as some indie studio will make german campaign and show everyone that you can do it.

 

I even have idea for story 🤣 It would start at school, you are 17 years old boy and teacher tells you that you should join and do your part for nation (kind of like in All Quiet on the Western Front) it would start in 1941 after everyone is so happy about german successes in poland or france and africa. You would  join and have some training missions, since you are young, they could make you serve as transport soldier (like in forgotten soldier) you would fight partisants and weather. It could be nice to have cold and food mechanics. You would be forced to eat and drink :biggrin:  or your stamina would get low. Winer would make you weak and sick too (kind of like it worked in company of heroes 2 where you had to stay close to fire). You would visit all kind of frontlines supplying soldiers with ammo, driving trucks, fight partisants, make friends (like in RPG) and they could die (no scripted). It would affect your sanity level and show you that you are just a soldier, no matter if german, still a human that have friends who die on war. Then you would join frontline unit and be normal soldier doing soldier job not being super hero, just like in older games. Sit here and defend, go on patrol, destroy this AT gun, not kill stalin and take moscow on your own while destroying half of tank division with your tiger. Whole part of this famous and huge german retreat would also be a big part of game, no food, water, cold, mud. You could have bunch of decisions to make, run away on your own, stay and defend german rear, drive with wounded. You would be attacked from air and there would be NOTHING you can do about it. Then you would cry from happines when you would see 109 coming and shooting down il-2 one by one. Your character would change, from kid to man, from happy soldier to someone experiencing hell of war and not fighting for germany anymore but for brothers in arms and survival. Could be split into parts, 1941-42, then 43, 44 and 45. Because it would be really long game ^_^

Edited by InProgress
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any one know if the UI is getting a bit of a face lift ? I always found it difficult to find what I was looking for in the huge control list so I could bind it to my controls. I do not doubt it gets easier to use once you know what you are doing, but it's a bit overwhelming for newcomers.

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10 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

After v5. 00 is released and hopefully a success I think TFS  need to contemplate considerably shorter periods between releases and a similar strategy as BoX.

They have a huge map already, will also have North Africa and people want aircraft!

Buzzsaw already pointed out I  previous posts that without renegotiation of the current contract the only way we get v5. 00 is as an all or nothing expansion. It isn't ideal but that is the way it has to be. 

Personally I don't want a v.6.00, I would rather have small expansions (paid for) over much shorter periods. This could be a few vehicles, a couple of ships and 2-4 aircraft,  $25-35 at a time. It would be a steady stream of income and reduce considerably the waiting time for a huge v6, 00 expansion. 

There is little to no Community engagement except for sporadic updates and the latest post from Bonkin has produced barely any feedback across multiple forums. 8, replies here, 5 on Facebook, 53 on the official 1C forum, 37 at the home of TFS and 13 at Sow. 

I should add this is in no way down to Bonkin, it is just the general apathy from waiting so long with nothing to play with and reignite the community passion. 

I would suggest too that they consider release of a map tool to the community. The thing is, people do want to be involved and by offering a map tool to the community these could be added to the Sim for everyone to use, once they pass TFS quality control and placed under a GUI tab of "Community Content". There needs to be something to interest the wider community and even the modding community where their roots lie. 

I will be surprised if they expect the community to wait for years again for a large expansion as simply put there just won't be anyone left when it arrives.

 I realise BoX will have released it's Bodenplatte update and impressed a large part of the WW2 flying community with so many popular aircraft but TFS need to try and catch big chunk of the market too and I think this can only happen by introducing American aircraft.

I understand that they are focused on releasing progressive updates but if you look how long it has taken to get from 1940 to the end of 1941, it will be around 2026 before they get near 1945!!!

Personally I hope they reconsider their options and look at building a P-51B/C, P-47 Razorback and maybe a B-25. Something to grab the large untapped American Market which should bring some much needed finances to the table. There is also the decision to create the 190 A4, but with the above aircraft the A5 would be a better strategy?

Simply put, without the large American Market getting involved, I don't see them going much further than v5. 00 🤓

There is a lot of misinformation and misunderstandings in the above post.

 

For reasons I will not go into detail on, there can be no pre-sales of aircraft  for CLIFFS OF DOVER based releases.

 

Regarding American aircraft, we will have three new US types for TF 5.0:

 

P-40C  (early type P-40 with smaller cowling, .50 cals in the nose and .30 cals in the wings)

P-40E  (later P-40 with larger cowling three 50 cals in the wings)

Martlet III   (European specific Naval Fighter produced for Fleet Air Arm)

 

We also will release the P-40F, (the P-40 with a license built two speed Merlin XX, called the Packard Merlin V1650-1, never seen in a Flight Sim to this point) other US fighters and American types in the next module. (I will not be specific on the types at this point)

 

I expect people will  be surprised to find out how quickly the releases arrive.

 

TF is working as hard as we can, we are on schedule and we are confident in our ability to deliver a product.

 

Thanks for everyone's interest.   🤓🤓🤓🤓

 

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On 7/25/2018 at 6:40 PM, Buzzsaw said:

There is a lot of misinformation and misunderstandings in the above post.

How so Buzzsaw? I see a couple of facts including one you acknowledge yourself (regarding sales of aircraft pre TF5) and I'd summarise the rest of the post as personal opinion and suggestions. I'm genuinely interested to know what you think is "misinformation" in that post - and while his theories as to community engagement may be supposition and personal opinion I'm not sure that anyone least of all you is in a position to label them "misunderstandings". You can disagree with him all you like but I don't think you can say someone's opinion is flat out wrong... it is their opinion!

 

 Personally i do disagree with him regarding the availability of US aircraft increasing CLOD's popularity - I think that boat has long since sailed but I'm sure your imminent release will prove me wrong. (There's always a first time😉)

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5 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

I'm genuinely interested to know what you think is "misinformation" in that post 

I assume, for example mentioning need of American aircrafts while africa will bring wildcat and p40 already. It kind of assumes that there won't be any American planes while there will be 2 + 1 different version of p40.

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On 7/25/2018 at 7:40 PM, Buzzsaw said:

 

 

I expect people will  be surprised to find out how quickly the releases arrive.

 

 

Now this sounds interesting. 

And to be honest, 5.0 really should arrive rather sooner than later. I fear that the CloD community is too thinned out once 5.0 is there, and there may be not too many folks left to appreciate it. 

May I recommend that the release should not be like the asteroid impact that the release of BLITZ has been. Better to give us an announcement. So the excitement can build up and word can be spread around in the flightsiming community thus generating some publicity. 

And may I suggest to even consider doing an A-36 or P-51 B due to its popularity. 

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39 minutes ago, Blooddawn1942 said:

And may I suggest to even consider doing an A-36 or P-51 B due to its popularity. 

I don't think they fit any timeframe now. A36 is from late 1942. We would need some 1943 africa expansion for that. 

P51 could be even in uk but still it's something for second half 1942 at best. These planes would need separate expansion I think.

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That's right. But the FW 190 and La 5 also hardly fitted the BoS timeframe but proofed to be very popular. 

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This isn't BoS, forget how BoS is marketed... as for American planes, I think what we have coming is more than adequate for the time frame and location.

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On 7/25/2018 at 9:00 AM, Mysticpuma said:

After v5. 00 is released and hopefully a success I think TFS  need to contemplate considerably shorter periods between releases and a similar strategy as BoX.

 

Production cycles may be an issue to to say in the spotlight of the press and the community. I applaud the stamina of the current TFS devs to salvage a working simulator out of something that died of over aspirations.

 

However, TFS in its current form will always be producing something that competes BoX. My impression is that mainly Jasons commitment and product management kept BoX floating over the difficult moments it may have had as well. TFS clrearly falls short of that, even though they are still there.

 

If they want to survive beyond v5, they have to get their act together and produce content that is compatible with BoX. They will have to give up a lot of freedom, and they may have to do things in a different way, meeting different quality standards. But if they want to stay afloat, this can only be done by proving themselves to Jason by producing something like the MTO for BoX. This just about selling to the Americans. (Did I say „Torch“?) Jason has production partners by now, and there is nothing speaking against widening that base as long as it can be done in a productive manner.

 

The better is the enemy of the good. TFS may have proved that they can make a flight sim. After v5, they could prove themselves a partner for BoX instead of the internal competitor, a battle that they lose.

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I think all the have to do is not cross ways with BoX and vice versa. CloD won't do any pacific and BoX won't go to africa. I think it would be great, both games would offer something unique. I really hope they will focus a lot on africa and mediterrarian: malta, creta. Later maybe even do Italy. Also having Channel map growing, would be nice to go to late 1942 and maybe even create some more france, belgium etc for 1940 invasion of france. Would be nice title for expansion IL-2 Invasion of France :biggrin:

I really love CloD for letting me play early war, it's very rare in games.. :( every company does mostly 44-45. At best you have late 1942. So yeah, i just love strategic games that let me do some really early war, Blitzkreig 3, Order of battle with 1939+ and even 1937 sino-japanese war. Now playing Battle Academy where you are able to attack france, have some africa as well and even there is sea lion operation :poster_offtopic:

 

Well, guess we need to stay in africa and 1940-42 Channel and everything will be ok :]

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12 hours ago, Blooddawn1942 said:

That's right. But the FW 190 and La 5 also hardly fitted the BoS timeframe but proofed to be very popular. 

 

Not sure why people always  think the La-5 was not BoS time frame, seems to be a fairly common misconception, and FW-190 fits the time frame fine, but was not actually present at  Stalingrad , however the correct map where it was present is included with BoS

 

Sorry if pedantic and off topic

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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6 hours ago, Dakpilot said:

however the correct map where it was present is included with BoS

Vielke vulki? Or whatever it was called ;D

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9 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

JG 51 lost over 20 FW 190 A3 in 1942, and were heavily involved

I played scripted campaigns on this map. Really cool, wish BoX would do career mode, even short one for this map.

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On 7/25/2018 at 7:40 PM, Buzzsaw said:

There is a lot of misinformation and misunderstandings in the above post.

 

For reasons I will not go into detail on, there can be no pre-sales of aircraft  for CLIFFS OF DOVER based releases.

 

Regarding American aircraft, we will have three new US types for TF 5.0:

 

P-40C  (early type P-40 with smaller cowling, .50 cals in the nose and .30 cals in the wings)

P-40E  (later P-40 with larger cowling three 50 cals in the wings)

Martlet III   (European specific Naval Fighter produced for Fleet Air Arm)

 

We also will release the P-40F, (the P-40 with a license built two speed Merlin XX, called the Packard Merlin V1650-1, never seen in a Flight Sim to this point) other US fighters and American types in the next module. (I will not be specific on the types at this point)

 

I expect people will  be surprised to find out how quickly the releases arrive.

 

TF is working as hard as we can, we are on schedule and we are confident in our ability to deliver a product.

 

Thanks for everyone's interest.   🤓🤓🤓🤓

 

So we will be surprised with how quickly the release arrive , that means  maybe it will come in 2 months ??? 😯😃😍

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6 hours ago, bubo942 said:

So we will be surprised with how quickly the release arrive , that means  maybe it will come in 2 months ??? 😯😃😍

 

Who knows? There is a schedule but they can't tell us the schedule so "surprised with how quickly the releases arrive" means nothing when you have no goal date to work from. Soon when it comes to infinity could in-fact be quite soon....but in an unknown commodity 5-years could be sooner than 30-years?

 

Let's hope it's Christmas soon and not forgetting their is an interim patch due between that and now?

 

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Thanks to everyone for their comments... this is the type of positive and objective discussion we welcome.  😎

 

First of all, TF is focused on the Mediterranean for the moment, making that our destination works better with the existing CLIFFS OF DOVER planeset... there is a natural evolution from 1940 to 1941.

 

But of course, we have the Channel map in existence already and obviously we will be updating it and providing new aircraft to allow new scenarios as we move forward in time.

 

Regarding US aircraft and American involvement in the war in Europe:

 

The first large numbers of Americans in combat were of course, the Eagle Squadrons... flying first Hurricanes, then Spitfires, which were under RAF control and direction until September 1942, and which displayed RAF rondels till then.  After that they were re-named 4th Fighter Group under USAAC control.

 

About the same time, in the Desert, the USAAC also activated fighter groups... among the first was the 57th Fighter Group, with the 64th, 65th and 66th Fighter Squadrons all flying P-40F's  (as mentioned, the Warhawk version with the Packard-Merlin V-1650-1 two speed supercharger engine)  These fought from September of 1942, during the El Alamein campaign... not shown on the Tobruk map we will be releasing with TF 5.0.  The RAF was also flying the P-51A/Mustang I/IA at this time on the English Channel Front.

 

There were also numerous USAAC Bomb Groups active in the desert during late '42, including those flying the B-25 and B-17... both in the Desert during El Alamein, and also in the case of the B-17's as early as July of 1942 in cross English Channel missions... as for example, during the Dieppe Raid.  These used the B-17E and B-17F types.

 

Depending on the reception of TF 5.0, we would certainly like to move forward into 1942 and if that happens, we would certainly expect to see quite a number of new US types in our next release.  At this point we can't confirm exactly where we might go after TF 5.0... but hopefully we can make those who admire the US types happy.

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This is what I think the future of Cliffs will be:

TF 5.0- Tobruk-1941

TF 6.0- Malta (possibly Operation Torch and Tunisia)

TF 7.0- Sicily

TF 8.0- Normandy

Bonus- Finland, as the hurricane, Blenheim, and other British and French aircraft were loaned to the Finnish Air Force and participated in the war between Finland and USSR.

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Posted (edited)

The future of Cliffs should be content for Great Battles Series.

Edited by ZachariasX
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Since the BoX engine allegedly is not able to handle 4-engined bomber formations and the carnage which took place over europe between 1943-1945 it might be a worthwhile idea for the devs of CLoD to explore into this direction. Best case would be a game engine which is capable to somehow recreate the strategic bombing campaign we all know as "defense of the reich". I bet there will be more than enough interested folks who would be willing to buy a say modern recreation of "Aces over Europe" or "European Air War" which were originally released 1993 by Dynamix and 1998 by Microprose. Maybe that is worth a thought or two?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Novice-Flyer said:

TF 8.0- Normandy

Bonus- Finland, as the hurricane, Blenheim, and other British and French aircraft were loaned to the Finnish Air Force and participated in the war between Finland and USSR.

This part makes no sense. Random drop to 1944? Especially with box already being there. I am pretty sure box will go there one day anyway. Finland is even worst, while I would love to see it in box, but not here. It would require huge amount of work to create russian planes. Would rather see developed german/british&usa sides than randomly going to the east when box already have well developed ostfront. 

 

Why people want to jump randomly all over the world... we will get tobruk, next step would be expanding north Africa theatre instead of making normandy and other theatres. Africa -> malta -> greece/creta -> italy. Mediterranean would be the best to focus on. And slowly expanding channel map with 1942+ instead of skipping it and making this boring overrated normandy again.. especially when there could still be battle of france in 1940 made. 

 

41 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

The future of Cliffs should be content for Great Battles Series.

This is completely different game, I doubt it's possible to put it inside box launcher. 

 

18 minutes ago, sevenless said:

Since the BoX engine allegedly is not able to handle 4-engined bomber formations and the carnage which took place over europe between 1943-1945 it might be a worthwhile idea for the devs of CLoD to explore into this direction

There are already some huge 4 engine AI controlled planes. I think some dev mentioned b17, so we will probably see it. Especially when channel map will go into 1942/3, so we could see big bombers flying into europe and being able to intercept them. Even as AI only, would be really great. Even on small scale

1*XAbpUgagDNkaHeh4UqdoxQ.jpeg

 

Up to 12 or something could be possible I guess.

 

Edited by InProgress

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11 minutes ago, InProgress said:

This is completely different game, I doubt it's possible to put it inside box launcher. 

Of course. They should drop CloD althogether. If they can make content for CloD, maybe they can do so for BoX. They should do that.

 

There is absolutely no reason to assume that the CloD engine can handle things the BoX engine cannot. Besides, CloD is also a flat earther using static maps. Thus it shares the same restrictions and that makes it equally unlikely that in its current form it will ever handle strategic bombing mission. Further fracturing the small market will make it even more problematic to extend the engine such that it can handle that many objects and a scenery of suitable size.

 

In its current form, CloD is actively hurting BoX. The idea that we never get the MTO in BoX just because of that zombie is sickening. But maybe at some point Jason will do it anyway. He went the BoPB way despite some sayd that he won‘t because DCS covers that already. Now he went there it realistically just killed DCS WW2 for any purpose besides a study sim. CloD will not be in that position. Once BoX goes MTO, CloD will finally be dead.

 

Long live CloD. As content in BoX.

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- Cliffs can handle up to and probably beyond 130 players on a server with 4.5 - this is no secret. Never seen BoX do that before.

 

- Cliffs does model the curvature of the Earth, if you get high enough in a warping plane then you can see the curve.

 

How is Cliffs actively hurting BoX? Ultimately they are owned by the same company. I bought BoX after getting Cliffs, and a lot have people have probably done that or vice versa.

I think it's important to have content in more game engines to deliver variability, and not have a 'one engine for all' approach.

 

:salute:

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4 minutes ago, ATAG_kiwiflieger said:

Cliffs can handle up to and probably beyond 130 players on a server with 4.5 - this is no secret. Never seen BoX do that before.

Not significantly different from BoX. Different would be 840 players instead of 84.

 

5 minutes ago, ATAG_kiwiflieger said:

Cliffs does model the curvature of the Earth, if you get high enough in a warping plane then you can see the curve.

Not sure what that means. If CloD used a world geodetic model instead of a flat patch called „map“, this would be (most welcome) news indeed. Of course you can play around with optics a bit (as does DCS), still fundamental issues in lighning, optics and navigation (over larger distances) do persist.

 

8 minutes ago, ATAG_kiwiflieger said:

How is Cliffs actively hurting BoX?

Not getting the MTO in BoX because of that other thing is bad enough alteady. But it‘s worse.

 

I also bought BoX after Cliffs. Cliffs I bought when it came out. Tried it again, after every update. And there has never been a sim that I *wanted* to like more than Cliffs. But you know... 

 

Another problem is the splitting of player base. There it hurts BoX most, as it makes working on the sim engine less attractive. Content sells. It can do combat, as can BoX. But getting a whole scenery (not: map) ready that would qualify in size for strategic bombing is way out of reach for the current combat sims. Any, DCS as well. Even being from the same company it would hurt BoX, because players had to pay twice for the same. Programming a sim engine is a huge task, and no matter how you‘re accounting for that, you‘ll have to pay for that. For almost the same. You also split online player base.

 

The alterations and improvements had to be rather drastic. Improvements that took Lockheed Martin 10 years to make based on FSX. That work projected on the progress of CloD, that will be right after the next ice age.

 

Still, I‘m interested to see how TF5 turns out and, again, I hope for the best.

 

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4 hours ago, Novice-Flyer said:

TF 8.0- Normandy

 

That's a scenery that I don't bough anymore - not even in FPS games. :P

 

Not getting the MTO in BoX because of that other thing is bad enough alteady. [/quote

 

Not really, because instead MTO they (1CGS) can make The Pacific.  :)

 

 

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5 hours ago, InProgress said:

This part makes no sense. Random drop to 1944? Especially with box already being there. I am pretty sure box will go there one day anyway. Finland is even worst, while I would love to see it in box, but not here. It would require huge amount of work to create russian planes. Would rather see developed german/british&usa sides than randomly going to the east when box already have well developed ostfront. 

 

Why people want to jump randomly all over the world... we will get tobruk, next step would be expanding north Africa theatre instead of making normandy and other theatres. Africa -> malta -> greece/creta -> italy. Mediterranean would be the best to focus on. And slowly expanding channel map with 1942+ instead of skipping it and making this boring overrated normandy again.. especially when there could still be battle of france in 1940 made. 

 

This is completely different game, I doubt it's possible to put it inside box launcher. 

 

There are already some huge 4 engine AI controlled planes. I think some dev mentioned b17, so we will probably see it. Especially when channel map will go into 1942/3, so we could see big bombers flying into europe and being able to intercept them. Even as AI only, would be really great. Even on small scale

1*XAbpUgagDNkaHeh4UqdoxQ.jpeg

 

Up to 12 or something could be possible I guess.

 

Hey InProgress,

For the Western Front, BoX will include Battle of Bodenplatte, most likely the Battle of Berlin, but Jason hasn't officially announced that they'll do the Battle of Normandy. However I think they probably will. But, if Normandy isn't in BoX, then Cliffs will probably do it as it will be a simple job to slightly expand the Channel map south, and many British and American planes (including the Spitfire) participated in the battle.

You have made a very important comment with Finland, and that my friend is why I placed it as Bonus. But, I mean if TFS later runs out of theatres of war and wants to do the Continuation War, then (Finnish aircraft wise) it will be slightly easy as some of the aircraft in the BoB were leased to Finland. Like you said, it's more likely that if Finland is ever made, it will be made by BoX and not TFS.

 

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7 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Not sure what that means. If CloD used a world geodetic model instead of a flat patch called „map“, this would be (most welcome) news indeed. Of course you can play around with optics a bit (as does DCS), still fundamental issues in lighning, optics and navigation (over larger distances) do persist.

It does use a geodetic model. This thread talks about it a bit - https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26483

 

This video also shows it - you can see it increasing as the Spit moves higher so I'm guessing it's not FOV causing that.

https://youtu.be/uv-6cJR1RSU?t=35s

 

I think someone made an online radar console for Cliffs that to get correct altitude for plotted contacts at a known angle and range to 'level' ground you had to factor in the curvature. Exciting stuff.

 

8 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Another problem is the splitting of player base. There it hurts BoX most, as it makes working on the sim engine less attractive. Content sells. It can do combat, as can BoX. But getting a whole scenery (not: map) ready that would qualify in size for strategic bombing is way out of reach for the current combat sims. Any, DCS as well. Even being from the same company it would hurt BoX, because players had to pay twice for the same. Programming a sim engine is a huge task, and no matter how you‘re accounting for that, you‘ll have to pay for that. For almost the same. You also split online player base.

If I understand you correctly you mean a large number of different maps could eventually form an all-encompassing European scenery? That would be absolutely fascinating to fly in, but I think that having everything in one engine just means that the limitations of that engine (however small) would be inescapable. Cliffs and BoX have both got their pros and cons, and I think it's good to get a taste of both, switch between them now and again.

 

8 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Still, I‘m interested to see how TF5 turns out and, again, I hope for the best.

 

As am I :salute:

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13 hours ago, InProgress said:

 

There are already some huge 4 engine AI controlled planes. I think some dev mentioned b17, so we will probably see it. Especially when channel map will go into 1942/3, so we could see big bombers flying into europe and being able to intercept them. Even as AI only, would be really great. Even on small scale

1*XAbpUgagDNkaHeh4UqdoxQ.jpeg

 

Up to 12 or something could be possible I guess.

 

 

Nice. I would be more than happy if something like this would be possible [IL2-1946]:

 

 

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2 hours ago, ATAG_kiwiflieger said:

It does use a geodetic model. This thread talks about it a bit

Today is a good day. And it is because of you. This is the best news about Clifs for me ever since people shouted „It‘s released!“ in the banana forum.

 

2 hours ago, ATAG_kiwiflieger said:

If I understand you correctly you mean a large number of different maps could eventually form an all-encompassing European scenery? 

Essentially yes. On the whole globe, you require less than 1% coverage in VFR detail. The rest can be procedural, as it was since the early MS FlightSims. But if you can fly „from map to map“, this would drastically increase the scope of the sim.

 

Looking back, I really do have the impression that Cliffs died of feature count (something that would require an exponentially better product management), whereas BoX could succeed because it was give only the bare minimum of features that still make it a high fidelity combat sim.

 

In my professional experience, feature count of a project is the worst enemy to success. But feature count will undoubtedly increase, and this to the point where a larger dev team would be required. At some point, the funds for devs may exceed revenues from the player base. This is then where I would see it would make most sense to merge both games, drawing on the tech from each sim that has proven itself to work best. It can‘t be a copy paste thing. But this is not so bad. When people understood ond know their code, they can write it again. (AFAIR Microsoft re-write their code libraries with every other version of office.) The task will be huge, and we well may have to pay for everything all over again, but if you can also port content, then you don‘t start form zero. But this as a hopeful outlook for the next decade.

 

That said, both Jasons crew and TF are on a learning curve. Imagine, they took the content that really works well and put that in a common, scaleabe platform.

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S!

 

 A lot of people among Finnish pilots are waiting for v5.0. Mediterranean Theatre has not been made in ages except in original IL-2. CloD does not hurt BoX, at all IMHO. Saying Finland is a useless place to model. Maybe for CloD, but in BoX many planes are already in that were used there. A few additions + the map are needed. Anyways, waiting for 5.0 a lot!

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21 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Of course. They should drop CloD althogether. If they can make content for CloD, maybe they can do so for BoX. They should do that.

No they should not, because it has it's fan base and it's just a dik move to think about BoX as godlike product that deserves to exist and throw away CloD.

 

21 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

There is absolutely no reason to assume that the CloD engine can handle things the BoX engine cannot.

Clod is actually way more detailed and can handle way more... Clickable cockpits, planes are modeled inside (better damage model, better damage visuals), 4 engine planes like Focke-Wulf Fw 200 Condor, 200 players server, can handle bigger number of planes at once, bombing require considering alt of airfield you are taking off from and place you are bombing (not simply looking at altimeter and done)

 

How the hell is clod hurting box? You people can keep saying that... but box would not go to africa or anywhere near it in next 5 or more years. So it does not hurt anything. And i am pretty sure 777 will be happier to stay in pacific that will be top seller than going to africa that most people dont know or like. After pacific we will probably go back to russia for a bit and expand west front with normandy and maybe some 1944 ostfront in poland and battle of berlin in 1945. So before devs would be even able to do africa, it would be like... 10 years? And i will always prefer pacific/russia as many expansion as possible than "here is one italy expansion and there one africa etc".

 

What they do now is the best option, i just hope BoBP wont be alone expansion on the west.

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37 minutes ago, InProgress said:

No they should not, because it has it's fan base and it's just a dik move to think about BoX as godlike product that deserves to exist and throw away CloD.

Never said that BoX is a a „godlike“ product. What it differentiates from Cliffs currently is that it actually mostly works.

 

I am aware that Cliffs has a very dedicated fanbase. Otherwise, there would be no TF doing all this tremendous work.

 

But it is a dikmove as well to keep a sim that also many people like out of theaters of operation, just because they are „taken“. But after the release of BoPB, I‘m hopeful that no such thing is the case.

 

Anyway, as stated above, I am looking forward for TF making something out of all the potential Cliffs has. So far liking Cliffs is like liking the vi editor. 

 

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2 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Never said that BoX is a a „godlike“ product. What it differentiates from Cliffs currently is that it actually mostly works.

 

I am aware that Cliffs has a very dedicated delicate fanbase. Otherwise, there would be no TF doing all this tremendous work.

 

But it is a dikmove as well to keep a sim that also many people like out of theaters of operation, just because they are „taken“. But after the release of BoPB, I‘m hopeful that no such thing is the case.

 

Anyway, as stated above, I am looking forward for TF making something out of all the potential Cliffs has. So far liking Cliffs is like liking the vi editor. 

 

 

FTFY.. I mean.. From my own observations anyway.

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Lol. It's not splitting the playerbase at all. Based on the evidence, there's a VERY small number of players playing CLOD these days. 

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