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15 hours ago, senseispcc said:

I say, no, no and no, Korea and or Vietnam and all air wars after WW2 are of different type of air combats where technology is more important than the men that piloted them.

Yes, there were still piston driven planes but those where not important to the victory in the air. And even in the case of jet engines only the fast ones dominated the sky.

Humans where pushed into a secondary role, technology first. So please, no Korea, Vietnam or Six days, etc … air games with the IL2 game engine behind it. I should and shall not buy them. :salute:

The Korean War plane's technology was pretty much the same as late WW2 with jets, gyroscopic sights and all. Ejection seats as well.

There were no air-to-air missiles or radar either. Dogfighting was the same as in the last war except average speeds increased by 200 km/h or so. The pilot was still fully involved in what the plane was doing.

 

Apologize to the pilots of that war for saying such things.

Edited by Frenchy56
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An F-86 vs. Mig-15 scenario at a BOX level of detail would be the cat's whiskers.

 

Something about chasing those swept wing early Migs is just... scenic to the max. :cool:

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I would buy it for sure to support the devs, but I have not much interest on jets. 

I would prefer more WW2 theater, especially early/mid war.

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1 hour ago, Frenchy56 said:

The Korean War plane's technology was pretty much the same as late WW2 with jets, gyroscopic sights and all. Ejection seats as well.

There were no air-to-air missiles or radar either. Dogfighting was the same as in the last war except average speeds increased by 200 km/h or so. The pilot was still fully involved in what the plane was doing.

 

Apologize to the pilots of that war for saying such things.

 

Yeah,  with machineguns or cannons aa weapons,  you still have pretty much the same kind of combat of ww2, perhaps only faster and in slightly better performing machines. 

 

I read some very valid "no jets!" arguments here,  but considering jets will be an important part of BoBp,  maybe the distance is not so great as it seems.

 

Come to think of it, Korea has some of the most beautiful landscapes in the world,  but little cities (by 1950s standards that is), so probably a good place to create a map for. 

Edited by danielprates
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IL 2's "Battle of Toko-Ri" flying Panthers, Banshees, and Skyraiders off straight-deck carriers.

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17 minutes ago, BigMotor said:

IL 2's "Battle of Toko-Ri" flying Panthers, Banshees, and Skyraiders off straight-deck carriers.

 

Sabre versus mig15 would already be enough.... adding carrier based would be even better!

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I personally do not want a Korean expansion, at least not right now. I much prefer more WW2 products and theaters before going elsewhere. Things like Italy/Sicily,  Africa, Normandy/Britain, and the Pacific need to be done before we move onto other wars.

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I enjoy the feeling of flight in this sim more then any other, and so I'm happy with just about anything they come out with. I want Pacific, I want Western Front, I want WWI, Korea, Vietnam.....Gimme all of it, and then I can finally feel like I'm playing a super-updated version of this bad boy...

yeager_air_combat_box_1024x1024.jpg

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51 minutes ago, Walrusboy said:

I enjoy the feeling of flight in this sim more then any other, and so I'm happy with just about anything they come out with. I want Pacific, I want Western Front, I want WWI, Korea, Vietnam.....Gimme all of it, and then I can finally feel like I'm playing a super-updated version of this bad boy...

yeager_air_combat_box_1024x1024.jpg

Hah! -  CYAC - you look at the old stuff now and it looks so primitive - but man - I remember some real sweaty moments...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jg346R5wbk...:cool:

 

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CYAC many a happy hour flying in that 😀

 

I do agree with what people are saying regarding other WW2 battles but a Korea flightsim would be the bees nees after that I'm not too interrested in air to air missles and radar etc and as already been mentioned Korea was WW2 skill only in faster planes. Would be willing to pay extra for a Korean flight sim in the BOX engine.

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6 hours ago, BigMotor said:

IL 2's "Battle of Toko-Ri" flying Panthers, Banshees, and Skyraiders off straight-deck carriers.

 

Ooooh - yes please.

 

I can still remember large chunks of the "Bridges of Toko- Ri movie when it first came out. My father was a RAAF pilot (Wellingtons and Dakotas) serving in the UK during WWII and we went to all the WWII flight movies in the 50's.

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3 hours ago, Walrusboy said:

I enjoy the feeling of flight in this sim more then any other, and so I'm happy with just about anything they come out with. I want Pacific, I want Western Front, I want WWI, Korea, Vietnam.....Gimme all of it, and then I can finally feel like I'm playing a super-updated version of this bad boy...

yeager_air_combat_box_1024x1024.jpg

 

Apparently Chuck Yeager is quite active on Twitter these days.  Although I’m told he frequently tends to be “that guy” now.  

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1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

Apparently Chuck Yeager is quite active on Twitter these days.  Although I’m told he frequently tends to be “that guy” now.  

 

He's a pretty nice guy in my experience, just don't mention the British.

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4 hours ago, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

 

He's a pretty nice guy in my experience, just don't mention the British.

he don't hold back do he? 🙂

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On 7/24/2018 at 9:01 PM, senseispcc said:

I say, no, no and no, Korea and or Vietnam and all air wars after WW2 are of different type of air combats where technology is more important than the men that piloted them.

Yes, there were still piston driven planes but those where not important to the victory in the air. And even in the case of jet engines only the fast ones dominated the sky.

Humans where pushed into a secondary role, technology first. So please, no Korea, Vietnam or Six days, etc … air games with the IL2 game engine behind it. I should and shall not buy them. :salute:

 

Eh..no, you don't know what you're talking about in terms of Korea. 

When you reach Vietnam, yes..the aircraft became more complicated and technology started playing an ever increasing role. However in Korea they're still basically WW2 technology with a few differences.  The F4U and F-51(P-51) were still being used. The A-1 Skyraider was developed during WW2 and is basically an ultra Dauntless, the Yak-9 served in Korea as did the B-29 and A-26/B-26 was widely used. 

The F-80 and F-86 were largely the same as WW2 aircraft, just with a jet engine and in the case of the F-86, a radar ranging gunsight which also wasn't that different from WW2 tech. 

 

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10 hours ago, Walrusboy said:

I enjoy the feeling of flight in this sim more then any other, and so I'm happy with just about anything they come out with. I want Pacific, I want Western Front, I want WWI, Korea, Vietnam.....Gimme all of it, and then I can finally feel like I'm playing a super-updated version of this bad boy...

yeager_air_combat_box_1024x1024.jpg

CYAC was my third sim and still in my top 5 favorites. Yeager may be aged now ( sadly inevitable ) still he was an incredible pilot and a masterful story teller when he lent himself to so many documentaries from the 80s through the 2000s.  

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47 minutes ago, JohanLoton said:

 

Eh..no, you don't know what you're talking about in terms of Korea. 

When you reach Vietnam, yes..the aircraft became more complicated and technology started playing an ever increasing role. However in Korea they're still basically WW2 technology with a few differences.  The F4U and F-51(P-51) were still being used. The A-1 Skyraider was developed during WW2 and is basically an ultra Dauntless, the Yak-9 served in Korea as did the B-29 and A-26/B-26 was widely used. 

The F-80 and F-86 were largely the same as WW2 aircraft, just with a jet engine and in the case of the F-86, a radar ranging gunsight which also wasn't that different from WW2 tech. 

 

 

Thats why i like Korea more then Vietnam air war, Korea is still veary close to WW2 and airplanes still dont have guided missiles.

In 1946 F-84 and F9Fs were great GA airplane on Korea missions also, planty cool airplane options on UN side for it 2 Korea dlcs would not be enought :)

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It's not all about the jets, the Skyraider for the Americans and IL-10 with the DPRK/PRC would be a lot of fun, not to mention flying the P-51 with the ROKAF. 

 

I'd be happier to buy Battle of Korea than anything else, for sure.

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas
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1 hour ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

It's not all about the jets, the Skyraider for the Americans and IL-10 with the DPRK/PRC would be a lot of fun, not to mention flying the P-51 with the ROKAF. 

 

I'd be happier to buy Battle of Korea than anything else, for sure.

 The first USAF units in Korea were actually F-51's from Japan..so not just the ROKAF 

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There’s a lot of space for cool props in the mix, quite a lot of the Korean War could be handled by aircraft that will be relatively familiar. 

 

It would also also be fairly straightforward to get a wide and representative mix of aircraft with the 5+5 + 2 collector planes lineup established with the other releases. 

That, plus existing aircraft recycled with new skins, would easily be enough to give a pretty complete theatre.

 

That could wrap the whole thing up within maybe 18 months and then on to the next theatre. 

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1 hour ago, JohanLoton said:

 The first USAF units in Korea were actually F-51's from Japan..so not just the ROKAF 

 

 

I know, but I would very much like to actually be able to fly the P-51 as a Korean pilot in the campaign, or with a Korean skin online.

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On 7/24/2018 at 10:55 AM, =27=Davesteu said:

The limiting factor of the Korean Air War in terms of a Simulator scenario really is the North Korean Air Force. 

Yes, they had those intriguing souped-up piston aircraft of Soviet origin - how many? Very few!

Scenario-wise Korea really is limited to either the early phase of the 1950 UN counteroffensive or MiG vs. Sabre + UN ground attackers. 

 

Maybe some of you guys might be interested in reading the Wikipedia entry "Battle of Suwon Airfield" and "Air Battle of South Korea" for a general overview.

Quote

North Korean airpower ceased to resist UN forces after July 20, except for isolated engagements. On August 5 and 6 the final airstrikes against the remainder of North Korean aircraft at the Pyongyang airfields destroyed another 18 combat aircraft and seven more were damaged. By this point the North Korean Air Force was considered to have been destroyed, losing 110 aircraft and only possessing 35, with only 18 operable. Through August and September, the North Koreans could only muster at most 16 sorties a day, most by isolated, single aircraft.

 

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If we do get to Korea, I'll put my vote in for the F7F Tigercat. Even with the two huge radials on the wings it is so incredibly sleek looking. I think the only other twin engine prop fighter that is even in the same league would be the De Havilland Hornet. The plane set for a Korean theater could be huge.

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The sizes of the opposing air forces won’t really matter in the context of playing BoX. 

 

Missions in singleplayer can be historic (or based in history) and if that means the KPAF are usually flying small-scale missions with limited support then that’s fine.

Putting those in the career mode would make for a good challenge and has the potential to be quite atmospheric as it would get harder with each passing day, maybe with the goal of holding out until MiG-15s become available. 

 

Abd multiplayer isn’t particularly representative of anything anyway, so if there are big groups of piston aircraft dogfighting with jets blazing around them, it won’t be a big deal. 

And usually multiplayer sessions end up being small groups of fighters and attackers doing their own thing with no co-ordination and fighting small skirmishes if they accidentally get within 10km of each other, so if there’s a lively ground war over a front line down the middle, then in the context of 1950 that will probably wind up looking reasonably accurate. 

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6 hours ago, Royal_Flight said:

The sizes of the opposing air forces won’t really matter in the context of playing BoX. 

They do, at least to me who is interested in the whole historic picture rather than a sandbox of aircraft.

 

Is one month of limited North Korean aerial opposition by a mere 132 aircraft worth a complete development cycle? I personally don't think so despite my general interest.
Maybe a scaled down "MiG-Alley" content pack only including a "Central Korea"-map, MiG-15, and F-86.

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59 minutes ago, =27=Davesteu said:

They do, at least to me who is interested in the whole historic picture rather than a sandbox of aircraft.

 

Is one month of limited North Korean aerial opposition by a mere 132 aircraft worth a complete development cycle? I personally don't think so despite my general interest.
Maybe a scaled down "MiG-Alley" content pack only including a "Central Korea"-map, MiG-15, and F-86.

 

I disagree completely, half-arsing it by only releasing two aircraft and a bit of a map will guarantee limited interest and low sales.

It’s like a self-perpetuating vicious cycle where no-one buys it because it’s not fully developed, but low sales make further development pointless. 

It’s the trap DCS have fallen into by doing the F-86/MiG-15 and nothing else. 

 

Better by far to do it properly and then move on, especially as there are quite a few existing aircraft that can be developed into their Korean counterparts.

For expediency, I would propose...

 

Yak-9P

La-9

Il-10

Tu-2

MiG-15 (premium)

 

F4U-D Corsair

Sea Fury

Meteor

B-26 Invader

F-86 Sabre (premium)

 

The Yak-9P, La-9, Il-10 and B-26 can all be built off the existing Yak-1b, La-5FN, Il-2 and A-20. The F-51 isn’t in there as (as far as I am aware) it’s the same P-51D from BoBo, just redesignated. 

If the Pacific happens first, which I would hope it does, then we may already have a Corsair meaning it can be converted too. 

 

The Sea Fury can sort of be developed from BoBo’s Tempest but they are quite different so it’s more accurate to treat it like a new aircraft in terms of development time. 

 

The remaining four would need built from scratch.

I’ve put in a Meteor so the RAAF can feature, the Sea Fury and Corsair for naval ops, the rest are all a representative mix of fighters, attackers and bombers that should fit the main coalition players on each side. 

Early-war engagements for both sides and then MiG Alley as wwlk

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10 minutes ago, =27=Davesteu said:

They do, at least to me who is interested in the whole historic picture rather than a sandbox of aircraft.

 

Do you/do we ever experience the “whole historic picture) in any of these releases?

Of course not - it’s akways limited, thus I don’t see the point in singling out Korea in this regard. :)

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47 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:
2 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:

They do, at least to me who is interested in the whole historic picture rather than a sandbox of aircraft.

Do you/do we ever experience the “whole historic picture) in any of these releases?

Of course not - it’s akways limited, thus I don’t see the point in singling out Korea in this regard. :)

You missed the context.
After nearly all 132 piston aircraft got annihilated within a month, the North Korean Air Force ceased to exist until and except for the MiGs. There simply is no real scenario for anything else North Korean than this single jet aircraft. Throwing in the few piston aircraft they used to very limited effect and only for a short time after the US intervention to make up an air war overstretches the historic picture for me. That's what I call a sandbox and is far off anything BoX has done so far.

 

1 hour ago, Royal_Flight said:

[...] half-arsing it by only releasing two aircraft and a bit of a map will guarantee limited interest and low sales.

It’s like a self-perpetuating vicious cycle where no-one buys it because it’s not fully developed, but low sales make further development pointless. 

It’s the trap DCS have fallen into by doing the F-86/MiG-15 and nothing else. 

I'm not into DCS but afaik they didn't even include a map, let alone any campaign - not comparable really.
Korea without Sabre vs MiG won't sell, but by the time they had MiGs they didn't have anything else.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to be offensive, but your proposed planeset is rather "half-assed". Four out of five N. Korean aircraft, all pretty much outclassed, for one month of service? The North Korean Air Force was made up of a mix and match of version rather than only the top notch stuff you assigned to them, so there's the next problem. And even the best versions are still tremendously outclassed by pretty much all UN fighters.

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8 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:

They do, at least to me who is interested in the whole historic picture rather than a sandbox of aircraft.

 

Is one month of limited North Korean aerial opposition by a mere 132 aircraft worth a complete development cycle? I personally don't think so despite my general interest.
Maybe a scaled down "MiG-Alley" content pack only including a "Central Korea"-map, MiG-15, and F-86.

 

 

Red China and the Soviet Union formed the vast majority of communist air forces during the conflict, though, so what's the problem?  Obviously they would be included.  Records of air combat in the region before, during and after the war include a vast array of aircraft.  Even the A-20 is represented, for example, which is already developed.

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas

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8 hours ago, Royal_Flight said:

 

I disagree completely, half-arsing it by only releasing two aircraft and a bit of a map will guarantee limited interest and low sales.

It’s like a self-perpetuating vicious cycle where no-one buys it because it’s not fully developed, but low sales make further development pointless. 

It’s the trap DCS have fallen into by doing the F-86/MiG-15 and nothing else. 

 

Better by far to do it properly and then move on, especially as there are quite a few existing aircraft that can be developed into their Korean counterparts.

For expediency, I would propose...

 

Yak-9P

La-9

Il-10

Tu-2

MiG-15 (premium)

 

F4U-D Corsair

Sea Fury

Meteor

B-26 Invader

F-86 Sabre (premium)

 

The Yak-9P, La-9, Il-10 and B-26 can all be built off the existing Yak-1b, La-5FN, Il-2 and A-20. The F-51 isn’t in there as (as far as I am aware) it’s the same P-51D from BoBo, just redesignated. 

If the Pacific happens first, which I would hope it does, then we may already have a Corsair meaning it can be converted too. 

 

The Sea Fury can sort of be developed from BoBo’s Tempest but they are quite different so it’s more accurate to treat it like a new aircraft in terms of development time. 

 

The remaining four would need built from scratch.

I’ve put in a Meteor so the RAAF can feature, the Sea Fury and Corsair for naval ops, the rest are all a representative mix of fighters, attackers and bombers that should fit the main coalition players on each side. 

Early-war engagements for both sides and then MiG Alley as wwlk

 

That’s the F4U-4 Corsair. The four hog. 

A beast of an aircraft a generation apart from the old corsairs. 

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Korea would be epic and would be one of the last conflicts this sim could actually handle before we would need click pits for complex systems. 

 

 

Also I have not seen a single post about tanks which would be very fun in the Korean theater.

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3 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

Also I have not seen a single post about tanks which would be very fun in the Korean theater.

 

Some T-34-85 with no air cover against tanks going from the M24 and M4 to the Pattons and Centurions is hardly something I would define as fun...

Moreover tanks where mainly used as infantry support against other infantry. Something that at the moment is not even present (and will be even at full release) in TC properly.

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On 7/27/2018 at 1:19 PM, Royal_Flight said:

 

The Yak-9P, La-9, Il-10 and B-26 can all be built off the existing Yak-1b, La-5FN, Il-2 and A-20.

 

Umm.. The A26 (re classed B after WW2 when the Martin Marauder was dropped from inventory) has only it's manufacturer in common with the A20. It would require an entirely new 3D model, damage model and FM.

Edited by BlitzPig_EL

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Korea....as already said, very onesided IMHO

 

i am still for a Six Day War set 🙄

MirageIII

SMB2

Vatour

MiG21F

MiG17

Hawker Hunter

 

Su7, Mystere VIA, MiG21PF (difficult, it would need the Atoll), Mig19, IL28

 

It was still a „canon“ airwar. And the Mirage Radar just didnt work (the Israelis developed a manual Rangesetting for the sights, and later they even replacedthese radars with balast...)

 

Just a dream ,will never happen !!

Edited by III/JG53Frankyboy
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I think Korea is a very viable option both on the ground and in the air. Korea does indeed use a lot of late WW2 equipment that could be recycled from say Battle of Berlin pack. If the devs wanted to plan ahead they could avoid doing too much late war russian equipment for those packs and save them for Korea. German stuff is obviously free game because that was not present in korea and there are plenty of new US tanks to make a whole new pack. Late modifications of the SU series tank destroyer and T34-85, if already sold in a Berlin pack would be redundant to sell again for a Korean pack. So if we wanted late German stuff like the Tiger 2 then it might be best to have a tank pack around the same time of our current air pack Bodenplatte instead of the Russian front.

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I mean, if they made an entire system for jet planes and only make one jet plane, it wouldn't be very gratifying.

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I'm for Korea eventually in this game engine. I've given up on DCS doing their Sabre and Mig15 any justice. 2 good modules wasted. 

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The planes I put together earlier were just a rough example, so I’m happy to admit it’s a bit half-arsed.

What I was after though is to get a set representative of what any engagements could have looked like, so there’s enough to make the theatre fun to fly in.

 

If we just had MiGs vs Sabres it would be fun for some, but it would be quite a sterile  environment with nothing else in the sky, and no mission variety other than dogfights and duelling.

No ground attack or bombers or anything, but if we fill it out a bit then there’s more options, and the closer they are to existing aircraft the less time it takes.

I’d be most keen on the B-26 or Il-10 out of that set, with the Sea Fury not far behind.

 I would love a Korean War but if it’s just a MiG-15 and an F-86 alone I wouldn’t buy it. 

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