FC - back after a long break

[Reflected]

Hi,

 

I've taken a rather long break from the Il2 series out of frustration, but as a big RoF fan FC made me come back. I can definitely see how FC will be a worthy successor of RoF.

 

- The graphics are better, and the game runs smoother (although some cockpit textures like leather parts are still disappointingly low-res)

- The FM feels smoother - not much different, maybe it's the new engine

- The DM is better. Finally, not all kills are wing tear-offs with a few bursts. These planes are made of canvas and wood. You really need to aim for meat or metal. A much needed improvement!

- The AI is much more believable

- The quality of BoX terrains surpasses the RoF maps, and I'm looking forward to the new WWI map with more detailed no mans land and trenches.

 

BUT

 

I'm quite disappointed to see some old, glaring bugs from RoF and BoS still being there.

 

- planes shimmer when a cloud is in the background

- Sound radar - I was about to be jumped by a Dr1, but I could hear him from 500 m!!! This is crazy and will ruin WWI MP IMO. Better than any RWR...

- Hit sounds sound weird, more appropriate for WW2 planes, and mostly - you can hear hits on the enemy plane as if on your own. This is totally crazy, I remember heated discussions about this years ago. Can't believe it's still there, this is total nonsense.

- The good old laser beams - tracers are visible from 10-20 km, more so than flares, giving away your position.

- Aircraft visibility - when I zoom in ,it's realistic. But when I zoom out to regain at least some of my peripheral vision, contacts just pop out of existence. Not good.

 

So while I'm optimistic about having a shiny new WW1 game I'm quite pessimistic and disappointed with some of the nonsense features prevailing after all these years.

[Fritz_X]

Please, just give the game some time to evolve. You know it's early access and we just got the first playable build.

 

I can understand your gripes about some bugs, like the shimmering planes when flying in front of clouds, but bugs like the metallic hit sounds are definitely going to be changed as the game progresses.

 

Just remember how things started when BoS was released. The game only had little content and its' fair share of bugs and problems due to several limitations. You can still witness how mixed the game was received on its' initial released, if you check out metacritic and other reviews. But if you look what the game has involved into, you just have to admit that it deserves the name 'Great Battles' like no other simulation does.

 

What I am trying to communicate is: Give it a little time.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Fritz_X

[Reflected]

I can definitely see its potential and I'm aware it's early access. What disappoints me is that I see bugs that have been present in this series, hey, even RoF for many many years. Therefore I don't see they are intended to be fixed.

[unreasonable]

Some of the things you point to are engine related: cloud problems, for instance. They will only get solved for FC if they get solved for BoX.

 

In other areas that are specific to FC we may still have a chance to build on the improvements of FC over RoF and prevent some of the worst features of RoF re-emerging in FC.

Like easily removed wings for example. We had all of 48 hours with a DM without that, to great applause, and now they are back with the new hotfix. 

 

Best I think to concentrate on FC specific issues: while they are in EA there is some chance of having an influence. 

Edited July 22, 2018 by unreasonable

[Zooropa_Fly]

Is it not a possibility that some of the sights and sound relating to shooting / hits, have been temporarily borrowed from WW2 purely to get EA up and running ?

[-RnR-suedo]

I think that I will wait and see how things get implemented into the game, and how many people play BoFC and the ground forces . I would have preferred that they bought COD back into the fold. But we will see 

[unreasonable]

@Zooropa_FlyI am sure you are right, and we can assume that they will gradually go away. I am more worried about a few things like a DM that encourages wing sawing.....   

[Grale]

27 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

Quote

 

Some of the things you point to are engine related: cloud problems, for instance. They will only get solved for FC if they get solved for BoX.

 

In other areas that are specific to FC we may still have a chance to build on the improvements of FC over RoF and prevent some of the worst features of RoF re-emerging in FC.

Like easily removed wings for example. We had all of 48 hours with a DM without that, to great applause, and now they are back with the new hotfix. 

 

Best I think to concentrate on FC specific issues: while they are in EA there is some chance of having an influence. 

 

 

Just having bought FC yesterday, i have been very pleased so far. Obviously early days but i am optimistic that this will be a good updated ROF. Flying solely VR these days, i have put away my Trackir. I just can't go back to monitor flying or driving!

 

@unreasonable  You mentioned 48 hours without a wing removal and hotfix. Are you saying it was not easy to remove the wings before the hotfix? It's just i found flying yesterday 8/10 times a kill was a result of wing loss. It's annoying enough atm that i try and avoid shooting the wings!  

[unreasonable]

26 minutes ago, Grale said:

 

Just having bought FC yesterday, i have been very pleased so far. Obviously early days but i am optimistic that this will be a good updated ROF. Flying solely VR these days, i have put away my Trackir. I just can't go back to monitor flying or driving!

 

@unreasonable  You mentioned 48 hours without a wing removal and hotfix. Are you saying it was not easy to remove the wings before the hotfix? It's just i found flying yesterday 8/10 times a kill was a result of wing loss. It's annoying enough atm that i try and avoid shooting the wings!  

 

Yes absolutely. Before the hotfix the wings were much harder to remove, which made aiming for pilot and engine area the right approach, as it was in the real world.  Everyone commented on it - favourably,  at least in the English forum.  I am as certain of this as I can be given that I can only test and play rather than look at the code. 

 

The de-winging may have been the developers trying to make the FC DM more like RoFs, or just a horrible mistake like the handgun damage.

 

I would like an explanation of what the developers are trying to achieve here. I can accept that there are things in FC that are going to be inferior to RoF for the foreseeable future, like the response curves, lack of career and minimaps. But where there is a clear ability to improve on RoF - as in the 3.005 DM - I do not understand why that should be immediately removed for reversion to an inferior version.

[Feathered_IV]

It's a bit of an iffy purchase for me when the only singleplayer content will be QMB skirmishes against a "half-roll dive to the left" AI that I already stopped playing Rise of Flight over years ago.  Presumably the developers are fine with this as they have signed off on it.  It's certainly a bold move though.  Making and selling video games when gameplay comes last.

[Jack59]

15 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

It's a bit of an iffy purchase for me when the only singleplayer content will be QMB skirmishes against a "half-roll dive to the left" AI that I already stopped playing Rise of Flight over years ago.  Presumably the developers are fine with this as they have signed off on it.  It's certainly a bold move though.  Making and selling video games when gameplay comes last.

 

I'm happy to say that the AI has been improved way beyond that half-roll dive to the left. The FC AI makes extensive use of the vertical, AI Spads have been extending at speed to return for slashing attacks, and I've seen an AI Dr1 use what to me looked like a "Falling Leaf" maneuver to escape. I've seen very little of that simple turn as a defensive maneuver. I've also seen the AI disengage when wounded or damaged; another great improvement. Please don't write off FC thinking that the AI is anything as stilted as the one in RoF.

[unreasonable]

17 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

It's a bit of an iffy purchase for me when the only singleplayer content will be QMB skirmishes against a "half-roll dive to the left" AI that I already stopped playing Rise of Flight over years ago.  Presumably the developers are fine with this as they have signed off on it.  It's certainly a bold move though.  Making and selling video games when gameplay comes last.

 

I am fairly sure that SP content will arrive from the renowned Pat Wilson... but we do need some balloons, WW1 era AA guns etc which I am sure will arrive plus a couple more 2-seaters which may not.  

 

The AI has certainly improved: you see dive straight down, scissors and even turns to the right!

 

I suspect the developers have very little choice.  I doubt they can make a convincing carrier ops game with this engine without some major compromises, or a heavy bomber game, they have reached a tolerance limit for more East front material from the market segment that pays full prices, and they have let CLOD take over the interesting earlier war scenarios for France, BoB and Med, and they cannot afford the full investment of RoF2 unless it can pay for itself during development. So once BoBP is done where can they go?

 

So they are advancing tactically where they can, hoping that the RoF MP crowd will bail them out.

 

 

[Feathered_IV]

Thanks for the replies.  I was watching a video of some FC combat and the AI seemed to waft around like a brown paper bag.  If they are able to provide some real purpose to the game and not be a placeholder feature, I'd be interested in the product.  In the meantime however I've greatly optimised the amount of future content that I plan to buy.

 

 

[Fritz_X]

1 hour ago, Jack59 said:

... AI Spads have been extending at speed to return for slashing attacks,  ...

 

True and very important point!

 

When I first tried FC on its' release day, I started by flying a Dr.1 against two AI SPADs at veteran level. When I tried to engage them, all they did was running away from me. I tried to chase them, which of course doesn't work in a Dr.1, but I ended the mission after a short and unsuccessful chase. I actually thought that the AI was bugged, simply ignoring my presence.

 

When I tried the same setup again, the SPADs turned heel again, but instead of chasing them I decided to stay in the combat area. To my surprise both SPADs turned around after gathering some distance to me and both started a 'slashing attack' at high speed. After they had passed me, they repeated the same tactic several times.

 

This actually was the first time I witnessed the AI flying a high energy fighter to its' strengths, which is a very welcome improvement.