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IckyATLAS

Default Head position and FOV

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Could we consider that the default pilot head position and FOV (zoom) as setup by the devs for each airplane,  does correspond to the real thing. I mean by that that if you are the average body height pilot the cockpit as displayed on the screen would be the one we would see when looking straight in front. If not what is the real front cockpit view of a pilot in an A5 or BF109 or P40 etc..

The real pilot could not change its FOV, he could only move his head, by basically turn it (as on a swivel) and very little back front move as he was completely strapped on his seat. So if we want to be in similar conditions we need to know what of the cockpit windshield, canopy structure and instruments could be seen.

Does the cockpit layout study and design made by the devs include this aspect of things?

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Real pilots could indeed move their head position. They could raise their seat a bit for taxi etc. Also you should keep in mind that in such a fighter aircraft, you are not strapped in like in an Extra300. You have shoulder straps relatively loose to help you turn around watching your back. This works especially well for aircraft with very upright seats such as the Spit. In air combat you on the average fly much less G than aerobatics and most of what you do will be positive G. The lower seat belts will hold you for that. Thight shoulder staps keep you more comfortable in negative sideway G‘s.

 

The German Revi is also designed to be just used with one eye and the way it is placed requires you to lean forward a bit. If you aimed leaning back farfrom the Revi, they wouldn‘t have had to offset it to adress the parallax.

 

AFAIR in CloD, there is/was a funcion to loosen shoulder straps to move more freely, this at the price of more head movement during maneuvering.

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We should also consider that everyone has a different monitor and viewing setup, so customization is necessary for everyone to be comfortable with their setup.

 

 

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This has been moved in the complaints section but it was not a complaint really. It was just a question. But never mind.

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20 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

This has been moved in the complaints section but it was not a complaint really. It was just a question. But never mind.

To answer you question: I guess you had to sit in an actual cockpit and find out your head position if you want your "correct" one. Depending on where you set your chair, how many pillows etc. and your body size, your head will be in a different default position. This default position reflect how you sit in in an aircraft in the most comfortable manner and it is not such that you look exactly through the visor.

 

Compare the to the default head position in a car: Just look at how people sit behind the wheel. Short and lazy people will drive in a way that hardly lets them see over the wheel. there is no "default position". There is just an area where you should reasonably position your head.

 

(I also took your question not asa complaint.)

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I've done lots of experimenting with this, and I've found the 0.000 setting for the "front to back" position to be most realistic, especially when compared to real-life photos.

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On 6/24/2018 at 11:50 AM, IckyATLAS said:

The real pilot could not change its FOV, he could only move his head, by basically turn it (as on a swivel) and very little back front move as he was completely strapped on his seat.

 

Have a look at this video of a guy pre-flighting a P-51C Mustang, at around 2:50 for about 20 seconds he tests the mechanism for loosing the shoulder straps so that he can lean forward...it'd be a nice feature in a flight sim.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z1Z-WEZZGM

 

FOV is another thing altogether and you are 100% correct about it, none of us have zoom enabled vision. But how would you propose to make it more realistic?

 

This has crossed my mind from time to time also and I think that in a more realistic setting, zoom would be disabled after you were in the cockpit for say 10-20 seconds, giving you enough time to set you preferred zoom and that would be it for the rest of the flight. As having one fixed FOV would not work for everyone, but the zoom feature is very arcade.

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I always set the camera in a way, that I have the feeling, I am really sitting in the cockpit. The height, that, when I lean a bit forward to the visor, I don't have to move my head up or down, so when I am in the default position I am a bit above the middle of the visor. To see if I have the right position forward or to the rear, I look down to the seatback, to see if this fits. And I set the zoom about half in, so it looks like I am sitting in a narrow little cockpit. This zoom and the positions are fixed in the TrackIR settings, so I always have the same view in and out of my cockpit. I also changed these settings for gunners where neccessary, so it looks as if I am sitting behind the gun and not somewhere in the fuselage, a meter away. The camera for the reargunner in the Ju88 for example, I moved to the left cockpit side, so I am sitting on the radio operators seat and not between the two guns. I am not a friend of zooming in and out while flying, it is not realistic. Our eyes can focus, not zoom. They can not make things look two or three times larger, only make us see them sharper, what they do, while we are playing, too.

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On 6/25/2018 at 10:52 AM, ZachariasX said:

To answer you question: I guess you had to sit in an actual cockpit and find out your head position if you want your "correct" one. Depending on where you set your chair, how many pillows etc. and your body size, your head will be in a different default position. This default position reflect how you sit in in an aircraft in the most comfortable manner and it is not such that you look exactly through the visor.

 

Apologies for the thread necro, but...

 

I've personally tweaked my camera settings who knows how many times and, at least for now, I am going with the idea that pilots would have attempted to set their seat height so that they didn't have to hunch down or stretch their neck upwards when leaning forwards to use the gunsight. In other words, the reflector sight would have been "centered" in their natural, sitting line of sight (more or less, of course - some of these planes - especially American ones - were designed to widely varying test pilot heights). 

 

Anyways, that's what I'm going with for now. :salute:

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55 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

I am going with the idea that pilots would have attempted to set their seat height so that they didn't have to hunch down or stretch their neck upwards when leaning forwards to use the gunsight.

Actually, they coauld raise and lower their seat in many planes depending on what they were doing. For ground operations or just scanning they had the seat in a high position, but once it was time to turn on the gunsight, they lowered the seat to comfortably look through the gunsight. It is not a bad idea to have the gunsight installed alightly low, as it is easier to look over that bulky item for regular flight.

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On 6/25/2018 at 2:59 PM, Pict said:

FOV is another thing altogether and you are 100% correct about it, none of us have zoom enabled vision. But how would you propose to make it more realistic?

The zoom view is there to simulate real world visual acuity on a display with a fixed number of pixels. The only way to add resolution that matches the real world is by making the image larger. Note how you have to zoom in just to read your instruments. A real pilot doesn’t need to do that. 

Also your real life FOV is about 200 degrees. But if you zoomed in to make your cockpit life sized you’d be reducing it to about 20. Zoomed in is actually more realistic in terms of size than zoomed out, but at the loss of your peripheral vision. There isn’t a solution for all this other than a variable FOV. All flight sims and other types of sim games that try to duplicate real world range and vision have a zoom view. 

Edited by SharpeXB

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3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Note how you have to zoom in just to read your instruments. A real pilot doesn’t need to do that. 

 

I don't do that as I don't need to do that either.

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IMO it would be pretty cool if we got a horizontal FOV slider akin to how shooters have it.

As in a horizontal FOV slider in the options on top of the FOV zoom we have in game.

 

I think this is an issue especially in the BF 109 G-series cockpit, as the resulting distortion causes the side bars of the windshield to obstruct your view more than in RL.

Kind of immersion breaking actually

Edited by So_ein_Feuerball

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1 hour ago, Pict said:

 

I don't do that as I don't need to do that either.

Well I actually don’t need to either because I’m using a 4K monitor. In 1080p you would. 

Bottom line is you don’t know what size and resolution everyone’s monitor is. A desktop sized 1080p screen is very far from real in terms of FOV and resolution. 

In order to simulate 20/20 vision and be life sized a player would need a monitor of a size and resolution that’s not even available. 

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9 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Actually, they could raise and lower their seat in many planes depending on what they were doing. For ground operations or just scanning they had the seat in a high position, but once it was time to turn on the gunsight, they lowered the seat to comfortably look through the gunsight. It is not a bad idea to have the gunsight installed slightly low, as it is easier to look over that bulky item for regular flight.

 

You're right - in one of the P-47 manuals I have, the instructions state to raise the seat as high as possible for taxiing, and then to adjust it "as necessary" once having taken off. 

 

It's a bit of a conundrum - I asked @SYN_Requiem a while ago what are his preferred camera view settings, and he said he liked to have a view where he doesn't have to look down to look at the instruments, and that's what I end up having with the "gunsight-centered" point of view. 

 

So, in your opinion, what would be an "ideal" camera setup? Having the view set up where the pilot is just looking over the top edge of the gunsight glass?

 

All that being said, what would be nice are separate "raise / lower seat" commands that are independent of the camera settings. 

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8 hours ago, LukeFF said:

So, in your opinion, what would be an "ideal" camera setup? Having the view set up where the pilot is just looking over the top edge of the gunsight glass?

Actually, I also like a gunsight centred view that gives me a good view of the instrument panel. A habit probably „ported over“ normal flight sims. Using TrackIR (with Requiems curves and only minor further tweaks), I find it easy to straighten myself up in the chair to raise eye position.

 

Generally I find moving about on the office chair is far easier than in a real cockpit. There with the lower seat belts alone, I find it hard to straighten out further to raise eye position. You‘d definitely needed to raise the chair there. Same goes for releasing or locking shoulder straps. While you just losen them in todays aircraft, you had to unhook them (and not forgeting to link them again in case of... well, problems) in the old ones where you used those seat parachutes that also act as your seat cushion. Different belting system...

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18 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Bottom line is...

 

Bottom line is you don’t use zoom to look at your instruments just like I don't. Regardless of what you said to the contrary.

 

Good luck finding someone who finds your arguments credible. I don't.

Edited by Pict

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In VR, I tend to just reset the position so that my back would be up against the seat. Nice and simple for most planes.

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12 hours ago, Pict said:

 

Bottom line is you don’t use zoom to look at your instruments just like I don't. Regardless of what you said to the contrary.

 

Good luck finding someone who finds your arguments credible. I don't.

Anyone who knows how to play these games understands and uses the zoom view. Don’t let me dissuade you from flying like a blind victim. You do whatever you like. More kills for the rest of us. 

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