So who else is looking forward to P-38 ?

[Freycinet]

Here is a good long-read on the P-38 which nuances a lot of what has been said in this thread:

 

http://www.ausairpower.net/P-38-Analysis.html

[ZachariasX]

4 hours ago, Farky said:

he sees main "cure" for this situations mainly in one lever for mixture/RPM/MAP.

I guess you nailed it right here. In principle, the dropping mechanism is similar (enough) in all American planes of that time, that in principle they don‘t differ in that.

 

When I read his original report, I mainly took it for a cry for having a Kommandogerät installed which in turn takes care of

4 hours ago, Farky said:

main "cure" for this situations mainly in one lever for mixture/RPM/MAP.

this in a sensible manner. Just linking lever travel in their absolute travel from 0% to 100% is suboptimal at best, abeit not too harmful.

 

However, placing the tank drop controls in that place

4 hours ago, Farky said:

box right behind the throttle quadrant.

there, I‘m not so sure I‘d be good at reaching it wearing heavy flight gear and I would have liked it next to the tank selectors. To me, it appears as the last item that also had to fit in the cockpit and a test pilot demonstrated he could operate it. The gun heater switch is clearly misplaced and hard to operate, especially when looking back and maneuvering. 3 seconds added time can be long in such a situation.

 

That you drop tanks in situations of emergency should be reflected in placement, and it clearly isn‘t. But it is clearly useful for test pilots performing long distance flights.

 

Taken together, I think Raus critisism should be applied to most of these planes. As said, I think the P47 is even more demanding to fly as it has even less automatic devices. But for what it has installed as hardware, the Mustang I find drastically simpler (procedure whise) to use than the P40, 38, 47: automatic rads, automatic supercharger and most systems you use in „hot“ situations placed in front of you and plenty arm space to reach for them.

[Gambit21]

A half a second can be the difference between evasion and catching the full burst from a 109.

Thus if any operation is AT ALL more difficult (forget "significantly" more difficult) then I imagine this will kill a few green pilots.

 

 

 

[Venturi]

Anything with a turbocharger will add an additional layer of complexity to engine management as compared vis a vis with a purely supercharged aircraft. Although vastly different in some ways from a P47, see the B17 manuals floating around out there - regarding turbo parameters and management.

I agree with Farky that when comparing the -47 to the -38, the only real difference in management is the fact that all engine controls and gauges are duplicated on the -38. However, it's benign handling characteristics, due to the prop rotation cancellation - a huge deal - more than offsets that additional complexity to me.

[angus26]

On 6/13/2018 at 10:43 AM, CrazyDuck said:

contra rotating props

Not to sound like a jerk but the p-38 had counter-rotating props; props that go opposite ways but not on the same motor, while contra-rotating props rotate opposite directions on the same engine/axis. 

[Hirachi]

looking forward to it already got a Yoke just to fly it lol

[Poochnboo]

Very good Zacharias. All true and accurate, I believe. 

[Farky]

21 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

A half a second can be the difference between evasion and catching the full burst from a 109.

Thus if any operation is AT ALL more difficult (forget "significantly" more difficult) then I imagine this will kill a few green pilots.

 

I seems that you are still missing my original point. There were post saying that P-38 was too much COMPLICATED for "green" pilots, you need to do too many things. And I am saying that if this is true, P-51 and P-47 were similarly complicated for them, since you need to do same things in those airplanes. You still need to flip same amount of switches and move same amount of levers. Can you do these things much easier? Maybe, some of them, but you still need to do them.

[Gambit21]

I'm not missing your point.

[dkoor]

Regardless of aircraft you fly, in reality you probably aren't going to have the time of your life if you get gun range 6'o clock saddled by some of the German experten that roamed western front 44/45. Not much point in hair splitting about stuff that rookies should know inside out.

[angus26]

Are “green pilots” the term for US pilots?

[Stryker07]

3 hours ago, angus26 said:

Are “green pilots” the term for US pilots?

negative, it applies to new/inexperienced pilots of all nations.

[BornToBattle]

On 5/29/2018 at 7:53 PM, dkoor said:

?

From the times of CFS2 I was looking for immersive WW2 (& Pacific) career, which will most likely come true with this series... perhaps it was nostalgia, maybe even the fact that CFS2 was my first real sim (online) experience, but there was just something that made me look after my electronic squadron mates, much more so that in another games... Rise of Flight was excellent at that too. 

Just read this post. What memories. I had CFS2 modded the hilt. Lord knows how many hours I flew in that. Then CFS3 came along and was so looking forward to it. Geez, what a letdown. Still have my copy of CFS2 though.

[40plus]

P-38 is the prime reason I bought Bodenplate. I am, to say the least, very much looking forward to flying it.

[Ehret]

41 minutes ago, pfrances said:

P-38 is the prime reason I bought Bodenplate. I am, to say the least, very much looking forward to flying it.

 

Me too but we will have to wait... the Lighting is going to be one of the last if not the last plane released.

For now I fly the P-39 mostly - in some respects it's similar plane to the P-38 with tricycle gear, forward visibility and 0.50" cals in a nose.

[PatrickAWlson]

On 6/16/2018 at 9:12 AM, Farky said:

 

I seems that you are still missing my original point. There were post saying that P-38 was too much COMPLICATED for "green" pilots, you need to do too many things. And I am saying that if this is true, P-51 and P-47 were similarly complicated for them, since you need to do same things in those airplanes. You still need to flip same amount of switches and move same amount of levers. Can you do these things much easier? Maybe, some of them, but you still need to do them.

 

What I got from Rau's writeup is yes, it was harder than the P-51 (don't recall him mentioning the P-47).  Switches were harder to reach and harder to manipulate.  The Allison engines were much more temperamental and the sequencing to combat power was slower.  Fuel tank management required extra steps.  Failure to baby the system would usually lead to engine failure.  End result was that pilots got shot down without a realistic chance to evade, or they were lost due to engine failure because they rushed the process.  

 

In the Pacific the P-38 was generally higher and faster than its Japanese counterparts, giving it the ability to  dictate the terms of the fight. Not so in Europe, which brought the flaws of the plane to center stage.  

 

And yes, I am looking forward to the P-38.  Beautiful plane.  

[Elem]

I'm hoping someone will do Antoine de Saint Exupery's P-38 skin.

http://www.multiweb.cz/czfighters/p38exupery.htm

Edited March 3, 2019 by Elem

[SShrike]

I might be wrong but I sense that the Lightning is going to be manhandled by the Luftwaffe.Fast it may be but people will try to dogfight with it and that will prove fatal. Unless of course there are some Mustangs lurking nearby!

[Ehret]

15 minutes ago, SShrike said:

I might be wrong but I sense that the Lightning is going to be manhandled by the Luftwaffe.Fast it may be but people will try to dogfight with it and that will prove fatal. Unless of course there are some Mustangs lurking nearby!

 

It's not that fast at the deck but the P-38 have very good acceleration/climb; better than the P-51. If we would get boosted ailerons then the Lighting should be very dangerous foe in dogfights. Forward view and guns are better for deflection shoots, too. The major flaw is low red-line in dives and that's a pity because the P-38 is both heavier and has better power-loading than the P-47D.

[CountZero]

9 minutes ago, Ehret said:

 

It's not that fast at the deck but the P-38 have very good acceleration/climb; better than the P-51. If we would get boosted ailerons then the Lighting should be very dangerous foe in dogfights. Forward view and guns are better for deflection shoots, too. The major flaw is low red-line in dives and that's a pity because the P-38 is both heavier and has better power-loading than the P-47D.

Engine timers and recharges will make or brake the airplane in this game, like with any usaf airplane till now, and who knows how will that look in ~6 months when we hopefuly get it in game.

 

[LukeFF]

52 minutes ago, Ehret said:

If we would get boosted ailerons then the Lighting should be very dangerous foe in dogfights.

 

Standard on the model we're getting.

[ShamrockOneFive]

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Standard on the model we're getting.

 

Hrmm... I thought we were getting the boosted ailerons. I thought it was the P-38J-25 we were getting and those came with the dive brakes and boosted ailerons. At least that's what I read when I double checked the details.

[Feathered_IV]

6 hours ago, Elem said:

I'm hoping someone will do Antoine de Saint Eupery's P-38 skin.

http://www.multiweb.cz/czfighters/p38exupery.htm

 

So far in this series of games, the default skins place considerable emphasis on aircraft that played no part in the theatre that they are trying to portray.

With that in mind, your chances seeing the above are very good indeed. 

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

Hrmm... I thought we were getting the boosted ailerons. I thought it was the P-38J-25 we were getting and those came with the dive brakes and boosted ailerons. At least that's what I read when I double checked the details.

I think he means boosted ailerons are standard in this model. Not that it would get "standard" ailerons.

[ShamrockOneFive]

1 hour ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

I think he means boosted ailerons are standard in this model. Not that it would get "standard" ailerons.

 

Oh that'd make sense. LukeFF is normally extremely on point with his info

[BornToBattle]

22 hours ago, pfrances said:

P-38 is the prime reason I bought Bodenplate. I am, to say the least, very much looking forward to flying it.

+1

[BlitzPig_EL]

I hope it's better than the US aircraft we have gotten so far. (A20 excepted).

If it's shackled with the same steaming pile of bogus engine limits as the 39, 40, and, 47, I will ask to be seconded to the RAF.

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Hrmm... I thought we were getting the boosted ailerons. I thought it was the P-38J-25 we were getting and those came with the dive brakes and boosted ailerons. At least that's what I read when I double checked the details.

 

Yes, that is what I meant - they were standard on the J-25.  

 

5 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

So far in this series of games, the default skins place considerable emphasis on aircraft that played no part in the theatre that they are trying to portray.

 

C'mon, thats not true at all with the more recent planes. Makes me wonder how much you've looked at the default skins that have been created recently. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by LukeFF

[E_Davjack]

look at the cockpit view angles....

 

 

[7.GShAP/Silas]

4 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I hope it's better than the US aircraft we have gotten so far. (A20 excepted).

If it's shackled with the same steaming pile of bogus engine limits as the 39, 40, and, 47, I will ask to be seconded to the RAF.

 

 

Quite so.  If I understand it correctly the Tempest is predicted to benefit from the way engine limits are modelled in the sim if past practice holds, no?

[6FG_Big_Al]

1 hour ago, II./JG1_EmerlistDavjack said:

look at the cockpit view angles....

 

 

Thanks for sharing this vid!

 

I have to say, I think the Bodenplatte expansion will be  great. I really liked the airplane set. Although the Germans are also quite nice (and with the Dora and the swallow are also the two exotics in it that I would like to fly) but against the Allies they can't compete for me:D
A Stang, P-38 and Tempest are the favorites I am really looking forward to.

 

best wishes Rico

[CountZero]

5 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I hope it's better than the US aircraft we have gotten so far. (A20 excepted).

If it's shackled with the same steaming pile of bogus engine limits as the 39, 40, and, 47, I will ask to be seconded to the RAF.

 

1 hour ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

 

Quite so.  If I understand it correctly the Tempest is predicted to benefit from the way engine limits are modelled in the sim if past practice holds, no?

 

RAF is way to go , leve usaf airplanes in hangars their engines are to sensitive   tempest shold have same limits Spit 9 has from what its manual say so it should be normal airplane and not timer mess like i expect P-551 and P-38 to be if nothing changes in how usaf timers and recharges are in game

[Voyager]

On 6/13/2018 at 4:21 PM, Ehret said:

 

In the principle not much, however..:

• some switches/levers were difficult to handle in the P-38
• the cockpit had insufficient heating (important in the ETO) thus pilots had to use gloves exacerbating handling issues
• turbos were fragile... a mistake could result in an engine seizure much quicker than in the P-51
• available time to react was shortened due to Lighting's larger frame which could be seen/id and hit from longer distance

 

 

Looking through the P-47N manual, it looks like you keep gun heat on once your above the minimum altitude. You may also keep the combat switch on when you're in enemy territory. 

 

Dropping the external tanks appears to consist of setting the spiggot from External to Main, and pulling the drop handles. 

 

To go from cruise to WEP you thumb the water button, then push the turbo, throttle and together forward and push the mixture knob to the wire stop. 

 

So: 

1) Tank to main

2) Drop external tanks

3) Water on

4) grab all throttle knobs and push to stops

5) combat switch on

7) gun sight on

 

I think the tank and throttled are the main ones. The simple tank drop procedure and the way the R-2800 could have everything run up together, rather than needing each run separately means that you are into evasive action after only about four actions. I'm not familiar with the Merlin's operating limits, but I'd expect if it has similar ability to tolerate 'gab-and-go' operation, that it would have similar short reaction cycles. 

 

I am glad that they're doing the P-38 as a collector's plane. A lot of people have been looking forward to it, but I believe it won't be for most people and will take considerable time and practice to master.

 

Adding it here means that all four of the primary US Army Air Force fighters will be represented in IL-2 Great Battles, and that their devotees can begin learning their intricacies. I know I've found the time with my ride to be incredibly challenging and rewarding. If all you Lightnings put the time in with your bird, I am sure you will find the same. 

 

Addendum: Looking further through the manual, it looks like the Thunderbolt also had a pile of things to keep the pilot from running the engine out of order: apparently there is a spring loaded latch on the RPM control than, if you don't depress it, gets caught by the throttle handle and runs the RPM forward when you throttle up. If you're already running the boost linked to the throttle, you just have to remember the mixture. Further, if you are doing everything separately, the box is arranged so the order is inner to outer. From right to left it is Mixture, RPM, throttle, boost. 

 

I'm going to have to think about the way I've got my throttle box set up, especially if I'm going to be doing long range work. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Voyager

[YankeeDoodle]

For those curious about the P-38J engine limits the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet lists max continuous power as 44" inches of mercury @ 2600 RPM, and takeoff/military power as 54" inches of mercury @ 3000 RPM for five minutes. Max horsepower at military power is 1,425.   

[Bremspropeller]

Is that on 100LL?

[YankeeDoodle]

Fuel grade 100/130 is what TCDS lists.

[ACG_KaiLae]

Is there info about 150 octane? P-38 already climbs at 4000 ft/min as it is.

[JonRedcorn]

12 minutes ago, ACG_Kai_Lae said:

Is there info about 150 octane? P-38 already climbs at 4000 ft/min as it is.

Holy tits mate, that's some serious climbage.

[Heckpupper]

1 hour ago, JonRedcorn said:

Holy tits mate, that's some serious climbage.

For a twin engine aircraft, yeah. For single engined prop that's a standard by that stage of the war. Even the P-51 can squeeze out 4000ft/min with a lighter fuel load.

[JG27*PapaFly]

On 3/2/2019 at 8:37 PM, 77.CountZero said:

Engine timers and recharges will make or brake the airplane in this game, like with any usaf airplane till now, and who knows how will that look in ~6 months when we hopefuly get it in game.

 

Add overheat modeling and flight modeling, and you've got the full picture. Bodenplatte is great in the overheat modeling, on average: one plane basically never overheats (Spit 9), the other overheats all the time (Fw190A8) ?

 I'm really looking forward to the 38, but I'd like to see some significant fixes beforehand.