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sevenless

More Fighter Missions for Fw 190 A5 in BoK possible?

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys,

 

I know historically in the Kuban area or in 1943 south of Orel there was no 190 equipped JG operating. JG 54 (an loaned JG26 units) and JG 51 were both operating in the mid-northern part of the front. However I am gratefull that you included the 190 A5 (F2) with II/SG1 in the BoK career for Crimea/Kerch area.

 

Now my question: Would it be possible to optionally assign a few more fighter missions like bomber interception, ground attacker interception etc. to II/SG1 in the career or add another Fw equipped unit with a more fighter centric role to the BoK career (maybe I/JG51 which was near Orel in May 1943)?  I´m not that much of a CAS guy and have more fun flying the Fw 190 in a more fighter centric role. As mentioned, I am fully aware that this would stretch historical data a "little", but on the other hand, if it could be made optional in the career menu, it could add to the variety of the game a lot IMHO.

 

Thanks for consideration. 

Edited by sevenless

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Posted (edited)

The mission mix properly reflects the sort of missions the 190s in that area were flying. If you don't want to fly ground attack, then start a career as a commander and only choose to fly missions that are air-to-air. Adding more units "just because" is a lousy solution. Orel isn't anywhere near Kuban.

Edited by LukeFF

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Would be nice to get some unusual missions for planes from time to time, aircraft were used for all sorts of things they weren't suited for out of desperation. Il-2s being used to intercept Fw-200s and Ju-52s comes to mind

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Posted (edited)
On ‎15‎.‎05‎.‎2018 at 4:17 AM, LukeFF said:

The mission mix properly reflects the sort of missions the 190s in that area were flying. If you don't want to fly ground attack, then start a career as a commander and only choose to fly missions that are air-to-air. Adding more units "just because" is a lousy solution. Orel isn't anywhere near Kuban.

 

Unfortunately even as a commander you don´t get air-air missions, otherwise I wouldn´t have asked. Fortunately there is PCGW where you can start a career with A3 in fighter role and end it with A5.

Edited by sevenless

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Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2018 at 4:12 PM, sevenless said:

Now my question: Would it be possible to optionally assign a few more fighter missions like bomber interception, ground attacker interception etc. to II/SG1 in the career or add another Fw equipped unit with a more fighter centric role to the BoK career (maybe I/JG51 which was near Orel in May 1943)?  I´m not that much of a CAS guy and have more fun flying the Fw 190 in a more fighter centric role. As mentioned, I am fully aware that this would stretch historical data a "little", but on the other hand, if it could be made optional in the career menu, it could add to the variety of the game a lot IMHO.

 

Thanks for consideration. 


I love taking down bombers or IL2s with the 190's cannons, but I personally would rather play historically accurate missions in this sim. I recently asked why there are no Yak7s or Spits in the final Kuban operation because I'd love to fly those through the end of the career, but it just didn't happen in real life and I'm personally happier that the career is historically accurate, even if I can't fly the planes I want.

I was thinking like you that maybe there could be an option like Historically Accurate Missions checked by default that you can uncheck, but I think that creates more questions than answers because the devs would then need to think about how far the missions would deviate from historical accuracy if it was unchecked. Like, would it be a couple missions where you fly as a straight up fighter, more of them, all of them? And if it was unchecked how would that change the nature of the existing missions, battles, or theater? I too wish the 190 could have some straight up fighter missions, but it doesn't seem that's how it was used in Kuban. At least many of the ground attack missions result in air battles though.

 

On 5/15/2018 at 11:41 AM, =621=Samikatz said:

Would be nice to get some unusual missions for planes from time to time, aircraft were used for all sorts of things they weren't suited for out of desperation. Il-2s being used to intercept Fw-200s and Ju-52s comes to mind

 

I like this option a little more if it was done minimally. I don't think it's far-fetched that the 190s would fight in different types of missions under rare, extreme circumstances. I don't know if this actually happened or how often, but it doesn't seem unrealistic.

 

I just would want things to stick to historical accuracy the majority of the time. Just my opinion.

Edited by obit

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On ‎17‎.‎05‎.‎2018 at 8:53 PM, obit said:

I was thinking like you that maybe there could be an option like Historically Accurate Missions checked by default that you can uncheck, but I think that creates more questions than answers because the devs would then need to think about how far the missions would deviate from historical accuracy if it was unchecked. 

 

Yep, that would be perfect. On the other hand we already have 190 A3s in BoS in a fighter centric role with JG 51 although historically they weren´t there (At 42/43 they were at Velikiye Luki and at Vyazma-Orel sector), so the game already stretches history for the sake of gaming fun. I´m just wondering why they don´t do the same for BoK? It appears to be not consistent?  

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Posted (edited)
On 5/17/2018 at 11:53 AM, obit said:

I was thinking like you that maybe there could be an option like Historically Accurate Missions checked by default that you can uncheck, but I think that creates more questions than answers because the devs would then need to think about how far the missions would deviate from historical accuracy if it was unchecked.

3 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Yep, that would be perfect. On the other hand we already have 190 A3s in BoS in a fighter centric role with JG 51 although historically they weren´t there (At 42/43 they were at Velikiye Luki and at Vyazma-Orel sector), so the game already stretches history for the sake of gaming fun. I´m just wondering why they don´t do the same for BoK? It appears to be not consistent?  

 

Good point about Stalingrad if that's accurate, but weren't the 190s in Stalingrad (or the areas you mentioned) actually acting both as fighters and bombers in reality? So even if the developers made exceptions and added the 190s for playability, at least they were still acting in their realistic roles. The 190 A5s were actually assigned to more of the ground attack role in Kuban from what I understand. I do understand the OPs request though... there's nothing like those cannons taking out bombers or ground attackers in the 190 but I personally like bombing in it too.

 

I just think that the problem with the setting I suggested is that it would create more questions than answers. How far would the game deviate from accuracy if unchecked? Would planes that didn't fight in Kuban be able to fight there all of a sudden? Would the spits and Yak7s be able to actually fight through to the end of the career even though they were pulled back much earlier in real life? And what percentage of 190 A5 missions would be different from the actual types of fighting they did in reality? 15%, 50%, 100%? I think there are a lot of questions like that that would need to be answered. I'm possibly over thinking it, but doesn't it seem like people would argue on how historically inaccurate the game should get if this setting were unchecked?

Edited by obit

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1 hour ago, sevenless said:

 

Yep, that would be perfect. On the other hand we already have 190 A3s in BoS in a fighter centric role with JG 51 although historically they weren´t there (At 42/43 they were at Velikiye Luki and at Vyazma-Orel sector), so the game already stretches history for the sake of gaming fun. I´m just wondering why they don´t do the same for BoK? It appears to be not consistent?  

 

Nope, BlackSix made the career as consistent as possible:

 

Like he already said the FW190 on Stalingrad (like the Macchi on Moscow) is only present because those two planes were sold as part of those two specific titles. To not incurr in people complaining that they bought something that could have not be used they decided to place both those real units in not their historical setting. Yet, notice that both units have a special script in the campaign generator that de-activate them unless the player himself decide to fly with them, preserving the historical integrity of the campaing for who is not interested in them.

 

About SG mission for FW equipped units, at best the only kind of fighter-like mission they were employed in was escorting the cannon armed stuka and Henschel staffels of their own gruppe or geschwader, a mission that was more common from 1944 when fighter presence on the eastern front was lower than before.

 

(On another note, I found that JG groups tend even too often to receive ground attacks mission in the careers while from what I know unless they were a specialised Jabo staffel they usually disliked to be employed in that role...)

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2 minutes ago, obit said:

 

Good point about Stalingrad if that's accurate, but weren't the 190s in Stalingrad (or the areas you mentioned) actually acting both as fighters and bombers in reality? So even if the developers made exceptions and added the 190s for playability, at least they were still acting in their realistic roles. The 190 A5s were actually assigned to more of the ground attack role in Kuban from what I understand. I do understand the OPs request though... there's nothing like those cannons taking out bombers or ground attackers in the 190 but I personally like bombing in it too.

 

I just think that the problem with the setting I suggested is that it would create more questions than answers. How far would it deviate from accuracy if unchecked? Would planes that didn't fight in Kuban be able to fight there all of a sudden? Would the spits and Yak7s be able to actually fight through to the end of the career even though they were pulled back in real life? And what percentage of 190 A5 missions would be different from the actual types of fighting they did in reality? 15%, 50%, 100%? I'm sure there are many more questions like that. I'm possibly over thinking it, but doesn't it seem as though people would argue on how historically inaccurate the game should get if this setting were unchecked?

 

Yes good points and I think they are all valid. All I can come up with regards to 190 A3 role in JG 51 is what I can read in 

 

Weal, John. Jagdgeschwader 51 ‘Mölders’. Osprey Publishing

Weal, John, Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Aces of the Russian Front (Osprey Aircraft of the Aces, No 6) Osprey Publishing

 

There you can easily find out that only 4 Fighter units were using FW 190s in a fighter role on the eastern front. JG 5 in the north, JG 54 around Leningrad, JG 51 west and south of Moscow and I./ JG 26 near Demjansk. All other FW 190 units were Schlachtgeschwader using them for ground support.

 

The point is: when we want to have it strictly historical, then there should be no JG 51 in BoS. When we want to give the player some more freedom and deviate from the strictly historical path which already has been done with JG 51 in Stalingrad then I vote for having some fighter missions included in the SG1 career in BoK. But in one case having it this way and in the other case having it that way is not consistent.

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10 hours ago, sevenless said:

The point is: when we want to have it strictly historical, then there should be no JG 51 in BoS. When we want to give the player some more freedom and deviate from the strictly historical path which already has been done with JG 51 in Stalingrad then I vote for having some fighter missions included in the SG1 career in BoK. But in one case having it this way and in the other case having it that way is not consistent.

 

It's entirely consistent, and you're missing the point @Alexmarine28 made. The only time you're ever going to see 190 A-3s is when you, the player, choose to fly with JG 51 on the Stalingrad map. That's it. You're never going to see them otherwise.

 

The A-5s on the Kuban map are an entirely, wholly different scenario. It's a ground attack unit that was really there, and they are being assigned the sorts of missions they actually flew. Like I told you above, if you want to just fly fighter missions with them, then start a career as the unit commander and assign yourself to fighter missions only.

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8 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Like I told you above, if you want to just fly fighter missions with them, then start a career as the unit commander and assign yourself to fighter missions only.

 

Luke, if that would be the case I would be a happy camper. However I have yet to see a fighter mission with II/SG1. Can you check with the devs and find out which percentage of missions generated for SG1 are fighter missions? Maybe there is something unintended going on and those missions aren´t generated?

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