The iconic p39 tail low landing?

[salimliu]

As shown in the real world turorial movie,i tried this kinda landing at least 20 times,following up steps carefully.

But in IL2:BOK  each time the nose wheel was forced to  touch the ground no matter hlow i pull up the stick?

Any one have any idea how it will be performed?

 

 

[Haza]

 

 

Watch from about 10.20 on-wards just for the landing aspects.

Hope that Requiem's tutorial helps you!?

Edited April 6, 2018 by Haza

[salimliu]

Great ,but i can't view this vid through current network

some thing to do with AoA when land?,i seriously suspect.

[Haza]

Just now, salimliu said:

Great ,but i can't view this vid through current network

some thing to do with AoA when land?,i seriously suspect.

 

It is just a youtube video, so I'm not really sure what the problem is, unless youtube is banned for your server or something!?.

Would you like me to PM you the link instead?

[Eicio]

21 minutes ago, salimliu said:

As shown in the real world turorial movie,i tried this kinda landing at least 20 times,following up steps carefully.

But in IL2:BOK  each time the nose wheel was forced to  touch the ground no matter hlow i pull up the stick?

Any one have any idea how it will be performed?

 

 

 

If I understand well, you'd like to land in a way that your nose gear hit the ground at the last minute ? If that is what you're trying to do I guess it's going to be harsh, don't hit the brakes, don't come to slow on the runway...

 

 

It seems that the pilot came at a decent speed, not too slow and of course as soon as he touched the brakes the gravity did it's stuff and the nose gear touched the ground.

Don't know if you're trying to copy that particular landing tough or something else.

[salimliu]

 

@Eicio

 

this landing way was introduced by a usaaf movie" Introduction to the Bell P-39 Airacobra Fighter (1942)",you may search it through youtube.

the way it introduced was called  "tail low landing" which in the last part.

the ship will land without its nose gear touching on the ground,  but two points landing with its aft wheel,  by the moment the P39  will still moving foward for a while  and the ship will decelerate quickly .

I couldn't finish this landing  in BoK

thanks for viewing.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf9mfAnkUxE

Edited April 7, 2018 by salimliu

[Eicio]

I saw, so the goal is too lose speed quickly and then apply the brakes. I'll try it.

[56RAF_Roblex]

I have always been of the belief that you land it exactly the same as a taildragger and don't make any attempt to hold the nose in the air once you are down, By the model 'L' there was no issue with the nosewheel and it brakes just fine.  Perhaps if you have landed way too fast you might try to keep the nose up a bit longer to scrub off speed faster but you would be better off just going around again.   Is there a particular reason why you are trying an unnatural landing?

[=420=Syphen]

A tail low landing like this in a tricycle gear aircraft would be considered a 'soft field landing' and that technique should give you the best results for what you are looking for. Basically it'll be full flap, slow, a ton of nose up trim and once the mains touch down adding a tiny bit of power, and full back pressure on the stick. This should be enough to float the nose wheel and you want to coast, using the first 1/3 of the runway to allow the nose wheel to softly come down.

 

(Caveat: I'm a low hour private pilot and I normally fly a taildragger but I did have to demonstrate this type of landing in a C172 - it may be a little different in a sim of an aircraft that grosses a little more and has just a wee bit more power but the fundamentals should be the same)

Edited April 7, 2018 by [CPT]HawkeyeP

[salimliu]

@[CPT]HawkeyeP

thx for sharing ,

in the tutorial vid, taillow landing or taildragger is the main way to differ p39 veteran or newbie.so i feel its real important to learn if you love the plane.

  also it's a demostration of BoK aerodynamic.

5 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

I have always been of the belief that you land it exactly the same as a taildragger and don't make any attempt to hold the nose in the air once you are down, By the model 'L' there was no issue with the nosewheel and it brakes just fine.  Perhaps if you have landed way too fast you might try to keep the nose up a bit longer to scrub off speed faster but you would be better off just going around again.   Is there a particular reason why you are trying an unnatural landing?

  In the tutorial vid, taillow landing or taildragger is one way to distingwish veteran from  newbie ,also the landing part of  P39L MANUAL below did emphasize that you have to maintain the same AoA after touching down until the nose let down itself,it's like taking off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by salimliu

[=420=Syphen]

29 minutes ago, salimliu said:

@[CPT]HawkeyeP

thx for sharing ,

in the tutorial vid, taillow landing or taildragger is the main way to differ p39 veteran or newbie.so i feel its real important to learn if you love the plane.

  also it's a demostration of BoK aerodynamic.

  In the tutorial vid, taillow landing or taildragger is one way to distingwish veteran from  newbie ,also the landing part of  P39L MANUAL below did emphasize that you have to maintain the same AoA after touching down until the nose let down itself,it's like taking off.

 

 

 

 

To be fair, most people tend to land tricycle gear aircraft a little flat. Just hang out around an airport that has a flight school long enough, and you will get the treat of watching 152's and 172's wheelburoughing down the runway on the nose wheel alone. A C172 can be landed at darn near the same attitude as a Cub/Champ/Citabria/(insert other trainer taildragger here). So it doesn't surprise me to see the literature of the time telling pilots to treat it the same as conventional taildraggers of the time.

[56RAF_Roblex]

6 hours ago, salimliu said:

@[CPT]HawkeyeP

thx for sharing ,

in the tutorial vid, taillow landing or taildragger is the main way to differ p39 veteran or newbie.so i feel its real important to learn if you love the plane.

  also it's a demostration of BoK aerodynamic.

  In the tutorial vid, taillow landing or taildragger is one way to distingwish veteran from  newbie ,also the landing part of  P39L MANUAL below did emphasize that you have to maintain the same AoA after touching down until the nose let down itself,it's like taking off.

 

Exactly what I said.   You land it the same as any other plane and let it put the nose down. The manual quoted says nothing about maintaining a nose high attitude after landing.  It says the nose  starts going down as soon as the main wheels touch the ground and the pilot does nothing to stop it happening..  There is no difficult special process to follow.

 

BTW, I have experience landing in a Piper Tri-Pacer. That is how old I am :-)

Edited April 7, 2018 by 56RAF_Roblex

[salimliu]

14 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

Exactly what I said.   You land it the same as any other plane and let it put the nose down. The manual quoted says nothing about maintaining a nose high attitude after landing.  It says the nose  starts going down as soon as the main wheels touch the ground and the pilot does nothing to stop it happening..  There is no difficult special process to follow.

 

BTW, I have experience landing in a Piper Tri-Pacer. That is how old I am :-)

As other planes?

to my understanding ， a plane with traditional undergear like bf109，people always touch down with front gear first or all the gears at the same time the best.

With a tricycle gear like p39，maingears the first then nose gear will be preferable.

how come they are the similar thing?

i do believe ,as the manual said ,pilot don't have to "down" the nosegear intentionally--that doesn't mean put the stick in neutral position.but to hold the landing AoA pitch until the nose down it self，the counter sequence of taking off.

at last planes differs from each other. Especially a plane with tricycle gear and body engine.

Thx for viewing.

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by salimliu

[=420=Syphen]

37 minutes ago, salimliu said:

As other planes?

to my understanding ， a plane with traditional undergear like bf109，people always touch down with front gear first or all the gears at the same time the best.

With a tricycle gear like p39，maingears the first then nose gear will be preferable.

how come they are the similar thing?

i do believe ,as the manual said ,pilot don't have to "down" the nosegear intentionally--that doesn't mean put the stick in neutral position.but to hold the landing AoA pitch until the nose down it self，the counter sequence of taking off.

at last planes differs from each other. Especially a plane with tricycle gear and body engine.

Thx for viewing.

 

 

Yes, conventional gear (taildraggers) can be "wheel landed" on the mains and then let the tail come down or "3-pointed" which is more ideal typically. Tricycle gear ALWAYS want the mains first. You never want the nose to touch down first nose first leads to 'wheelburoughing'.. any wind correction with the rudder while on the nose alone would be pretty dicey. So you say mains first then nose is preferable - it's the only proper way to land a tricycle gear. There really isn't an option. 

How come they are similar? Well, they are and aren't. They are similar that, by the 1940's almost every aircraft prior had been a taildragger so it was what pilots were used to. They didn't want to change the formula too much. The nose wheel gave them better ground handling and also prevented ground loops by moving the CoG ahead of the mains when on the ground, rather then behind.  A tricycle gear plane, once the nose comes down wants to track straight and inline with nosewheel. A taildragger with its rear CoG wants to swing the tail around whenever it can, if it gets the inertia or wind gust. 

Also, I've never flown a GA aircraft with tricycle gear that I had to 'hold down the nose gear intentionally'.. ALL tricycle gear will want to drop the nose - its the CoG. It's built into the design. Quite the opposite actually, most Cessna's need the pilot to pullback and get weight off the nose gear when taxiing or rolling down the runway to prevent the nose gear from shimmying.