Bodenplatte and its map

[TWC_TWC_SLAG]

I've looked, but can't find anything that really tells me if BOP will use a map of the Low Countries.  I was told by someone that BOP would be done using the Caucasus map. Who is right?

 

[Gambit21]

Using the Caucasus map?

No

 

As far as boundaries we haven't heard yet.

[CUJO_1970]

According to Bodenplatte per-order page - the map includes (parts of) western Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium during the winter of 1944 and early 1945.

 

As time moves on, we will see the exact map boundaries, but that's the general idea.

[ShamrockOneFive]

26 minutes ago, 71st_AH_VinnieJones said:

I've looked, but can't find anything that really tells me if BOP will use a map of the Low Countries.  I was told by someone that BOP would be done using the Caucasus map. Who is right?

 

 

Ok, honestly, who said that it would use the Caucasus map?

 

It will definitely have its own map and Jason was also specific to mention that there would be both winter and summer versions of the map. Further to that is the information that BlackSix has been collecting for the Career mode for Bodenplatte and it has quite a date range.

 

 

It stands to reason that either the entire date range or at least a good portion of it is up for grabs in the Career mode and that will likely inform the dimensions of the map. I'm guessing we'll see a good portion of The Netherlands, a bit of Belgium and a portion of western Germany to fit into that date range. Even if we shorten the date range to JUST the Bodenplatte operation on January 1st its still basically the same area.

 

During this time the frontlines didn't move a whole lot so its possible that we'll see late summer, autumn and winter and maybe even back into spring again.

[Falkenstein]

  I did see where BlackSix "started to collect information for the future BoBP career", and he listed "The first part: the units are located into the approximate boundaries of our future map."  Followed by "The second part: the units are located outside the approximate boundaries of our future map." 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/34152-bobp-us-9th-air-force-dates-and-plane-types-sep-1944-mar-1945/

 

  For my own sake, I had recently placed the airfields of the three Ninth Air Force P-38 Fighter Groups, using latitude/longitude data and Google maps, one of which has a photo caption of the German offensive "which at this time was within only 15 miles from this airfield", which did indeed appear to be true.  Anyway,

•     367th Fighter Group (392nd, 393rd, and 394th Fighter Squadrons):  Juvincourt, France
•     370th Fighter Group (401st, 402nd, and 485th Fighter Squadrons):  Florennes / Juzaine, Belgium
•     474th Fighter Group (428th, 429th, and 430th Fighter Squadrons):  Florennes / Juzaine, Belgium

  Anyway, no great surprise that Florennes / Juzaine, Belgium, is within "the approximate boundaries of our future map", and that Juvincourt, France, is not.

 

  Here are some maps of Western Europe that might give us an idea of what the situation looks like on the timeframe that BlackSix was researching data.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Falkenstein
Edit to get the quote correct :)

[Falkenstein]

  Oh, I left out the photo that helped prompt my interest!  It's from a post that Pail made on the Florennes / Juzaine, Belgium airfield:  https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/34114-abandoned-forgotten-and-little-known-airfields-of-world-war-ii/?tab=comments#comment-574270

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

29 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

Ok, honestly, who said that it would use the Caucasus map?

 

It's possible that someone confused it with the DCS WWII Caucasus. 

 

I haven't even heard anyone say that Il-2 has a 'Caucasus' map. I know Kuban is in the Caucasus region, but most people don't use that term here.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[LukeFF]

@BlackSix dropped a hint here: 

So, at the least we know the map will stretch as far as Mainz to the southeast. That would possibly put Bastogne on the map as well, plus large cities like Dortmund, Cologne, and Munster.

Edited March 13, 2018 by LukeFF

[Feathered_IV]

I heard a thing from a guy who knows a dude that is friends with a  bro who has a really cool squad, that Bodenplate will use the original Pearl Harbour map from Pacific Fighters.  

[1./KG4_OldJames]

7 hours ago, CUJO1970 said:

 the map includes (parts of) western Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium 

Oooh goody. There is a two-timing Bitch in Dusseldorf I want to bomb! (From the early '80s, but i can hold a grudge when I want to)

[EAF19_Marsh]

As I suggested on another thread, a logical square would be:

 

NW corner south of Breder and east of Antwerp (to include inclusion Eindhoven but not big cities / the sea)

SW corner somewhere north of the French border near Sedan but south of the line of Bastogne

SE corner somewhere around Mainz

NE corner somewhere south / east of Dortmund

 

That's about 250 - 300 km each edge, or there about so am not sure how realistic that is. but it would offer a terrific breadth of scenarios beyond Bodenplatte itself.

 

[E69_Chipi]

5 hours ago, 1./KG4_OldJames said:

Oooh goody. There is a two-timing Bitch in Dusseldorf I want to bomb! (From the early '80s, but i can hold a grudge when I want to)

Well, I hope you don't hold a grudge against anyone in Münster, where I live....

Edited March 13, 2018 by Chipi

[KatieLuna]

6 hours ago, 1./KG4_OldJames said:

Oooh goody. There is a two-timing Bitch in Dusseldorf I want to bomb! (From the early '80s, but i can hold a grudge when I want to)

You from Cologne or something?

[1./KG4_OldJames]

4 hours ago, TheTacticalCat said:

You from Cologne or something?

No, Essex at the moment.

Served in Duisburg for a year or so in1982-3, so I might want to bomb that as well.

(Note to MI5, MI6, FBI and CIA, I am talking about bombing within the context of a game, not real life.) Can't be too careful ?

5 hours ago, Chipi said:

Well, I hope you don't hold a grudge against anyone in Münster, where I live....

Don't worry, I'll probably miss anyway

Edited March 13, 2018 by 1./KG4_OldJames
Mispelling

[Y-29.Silky]

On 3/12/2018 at 8:42 PM, Falkenstein said:

  I did see where BlackSix "started to collect information for the future BoBP career", and he listed "The first part: the units are located into the approximate boundaries of our future map."  Followed by "The second part: the units are located outside the approximate boundaries of our future map." 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/34152-bobp-us-9th-air-force-dates-and-plane-types-sep-1944-mar-1945/

 

  For my own sake, I had recently placed the airfields of the three Ninth Air Force P-38 Fighter Groups, using latitude/longitude data and Google maps, one of which has a photo caption of the German offensive "which at this time was within only 15 miles from this airfield", which did indeed appear to be true.  Anyway,

•     367th Fighter Group (392nd, 393rd, and 394th Fighter Squadrons):  Juvincourt, France
•     370th Fighter Group (401st, 402nd, and 485th Fighter Squadrons):  Florennes / Juzaine, Belgium
•     474th Fighter Group (428th, 429th, and 430th Fighter Squadrons):  Florennes / Juzaine, Belgium

  Anyway, no great surprise that Florennes / Juzaine, Belgium, is within "the approximate boundaries of our future map", and that Juvincourt, France, is not.

 

  Here are some maps of Western Europe that might give us an idea of what the situation looks like on the timeframe that BlackSix was researching data.

 

 

 

 

Although Bodenplatte happend farther North, a Bastogne map would be sweet.

[Falkenstein]

7 hours ago, Y-29.Silky said:

 

 

Although Bodenplatte happend farther North, a Bastogne map would be sweet.

 

  I agree, and I'm expecting that we'll see that area, with so much action around there ... and BlackSix did say that the Florennes airfield was one of those "located into the approximate boundaries of our future map".  With the map's approximate boundaries confirmed to be planned to include Florennes and Mainz, Bastogne would seem to be basically confirmed at this stage, as well, unless their plans change. 

 

  "The Dynamite Gang, The 367th Fighter Group in World War II", by Richard Groh, does have their P-38s out of their Juvincourt, France, airfield escorting bombers, as well as C-47s dropping supplies to Bastogne, and doing their own ground attack missions with 500lb bombs in the area.  As well as air engagements around Trier to the southeast.

 

  I also hope it extends up towards Bonn, as well.  One of the engagements Groh records is from December 23rd, before the actual "Operation Bodenplatte" itself, but when the weather cleared enough to fly, one of the day's seven escort missions for the 367th Fighter Group had Lieutenant Fincher and eleven other P-38 pilots from the 392nd Squadron escorting B-26s of the 322nd Bomb Group to Euskirchen to bomb a railroad bridge.  Reportedly two dozen 109s attacked, with losses on both sides.

 

  "U.S. Air Force photograph of Lt. James O. Fincher of the 392nd Fighter Squadron, 367th Fighter Group in his P-38J Lightning “Arkansas Traveler” along with his ground crew. The P-38 was photographed at Clastres Airfield, France in October 1944."

"Arkansas Traveler" (H5-U)
P-38J-20-LO Lightning
s/n 44-23511
392nd FS, 367th FG, 9th AF
Assigned to 1st Lt. James O. Fincher
Taken on October 12,1944 at Clastres,France (A-71).

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Falkenstein

[216th_Jordan]

Shouldn't Eschborn and Nidda also be included? That would include Frankfurt and the airfields south of it around Darmstadt. As Frankfurt was captured in the end of March this would also make for an interesting outcome.

[sevenless]

1 hour ago, 216th_Jordan said:

Shouldn't Eschborn and Nidda also be included? That would include Frankfurt and the airfields south of it around Darmstadt. As Frankfurt was captured in the end of March this would also make for an interesting outcome.

 

You can see where they started and where their target areas were situated here. Also the units (german) involved are marked. 

 

[Sharpe43]

And that is why I consider the map discussion far more interesting then the aircraft. Look at the size of the terrain!