Force Feedback Induced Camera Movement Stutter

[l3VGV]

Beware - ruglish(sorry).

 

DCS and other game have same bug too https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2915136

 

In warthunder i have 4 FPS with force feedback enbled. 

 

Everyone is affected.

Edited May 8, 2019 by l3VGV

[[URU]Amraam]

Hi,

 

I recently brought my old Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick back to life and noticed the same stutter and sometimes complete halt of the game when I activated the force feedback in the options menu.

 

Particularly with the Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro, the ffb effects are transfered as MIDI commands via a serial COM port. While trying to solve other issues with the joystick I found a rather strange work around to the stuttering issue that might work for those with other ffb joysticks. 

 

Just by opening a serial terminal software to monitor the joystick COM port, all the stuttering disapeared!

I'm using Termite, but it might also work with any other serial terminal program like PuTTy or RealTerm.

 

It might not work with the other ffb joysticks, but I think it's worth giving it a try.

  

 

 

[Geoweb35]

In my game when i use flyby camera and mouse look i notice that airplane tail and ground texture is shaking for 1 second after i move the mouse, i don't know how to fix this, after each mouse movement i see this effect. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Geoweb35

[malexx74]

Hi,

wanted to give Box another try but .... it just won't work like it should.

is there until now any solution available for the trackir + ffb problem. I tried the solutions like smoothness and fiddle with the trackir profile, inertia to 0 etc ..... but all this just don't really help.

For me BOX ist just unplayable with my MSFFB + Trackir. DCS works just fine.

So is there a way to play this game with my setup?

 

[Kalthios]

On 8/5/2019 at 7:20 AM, malexx74 said:

Hi,

wanted to give Box another try but .... it just won't work like it should.

is there until now any solution available for the trackir + ffb problem. I tried the solutions like smoothness and fiddle with the trackir profile, inertia to 0 etc ..... but all this just don't really help.

For me BOX ist just unplayable with my MSFFB + Trackir. DCS works just fine.

So is there a way to play this game with my setup?

 

Unfortunately not possible to play without getting camera movement problems with the MSFFB2 in this game. I just moved on to other titles, the devs are not going to fix it.

[JG7_X-Man]

I have been using my FFB2 + TrackIR 5 since day one I do not see any stuttering.

 

Let's review our settings and see what the issues is.

 

Start by posting your camera settings.

Edited August 30, 2019 by JG7_X-Man

[malexx74]

sorry, don't have it installed no more. But as you see on this topic and others, almost all, if not all have stutter problems with trackIR and ffb.

And the "fix" was to set the camera smoothness to 100 and inertia to 0. But even this didnt feel right.

 

Anyway thanks for your offer. I will try the game some updates later in the future.

 

[malexx74]

Ok i gave it another try.

With all what is said here before and caping the frames it is more or less playable.

Now i was reading here somewhere a lonely post where someone reports that, when he fires his guns with his MSFFB2 the stutter is gone. Well i thought ....nonsense. But right now i tested it and yes, for example when i fire the machine guns in the spit, i can look around buttery smooth. So maybe all this is camera related, but give it a go and try yourself.

[Tuxuu_Bemepok]

Its sad to come here year after year only to see that this game breaking issue has still not been resolved. Jesus. When will be the right time for them to do anything about it? WHEN? ... @Jason_Williams

Edited April 17, 2020 by Tuxuu_Bemepok

[DragonDaddy]

I have TrackIR and MSFFB2 working together without a problem. They have worked  with no problems for more than a year. Sorry I don’t have any advice to help get yours to work. Perhaps this has nothing to do with the devs and is a settings issue. 

[Solmyr]

8 hours ago, DragonDaddy said:

I have TrackIR and MSFFB2 working together without a problem. They have worked  with no problems for more than a year. Sorry I don’t have any advice to help get yours to work. Perhaps this has nothing to do with the devs and is a settings issue. 

 

Hey, may I ask you what's your rig plz ?

[yeikov]

10 hours ago, Tuxuu_Bemepok said:

do anything about it?

 

I don't know if you read the previous page of this thread or the Dev Diaries, but there is a workaround implemented by the devs some months ago, adding a line to your startup.cfg file:

 

3. Force Feedback joystick owners who experience stutters can alter the new value in startup.cfg that governs the maximum frequency of FFB effects polling to try to eliminate them (update_freq parameter in [KEY = force_feedback] section can be set to a value from 0.5 Hz to 10 Hz, example: update_freq = 10.0);

 

Try with different update_freq values, combined with your camera view smoothness, to see what works better for you.

It does improve a lot the stutters, at the cost of some responsiveness/lag in the shaking FFB effects.

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by yeikov

[DragonDaddy]

On 4/17/2020 at 5:40 AM, Solmyr said:

 

Hey, may I ask you what's your rig plz ?

i5 9600k   RTX 2080 Super   32 gig DDR4

 

[Solmyr]

On 4/20/2020 at 6:15 PM, DragonDaddy said:

i5 9600k   RTX 2080 Super   32 gig DDR4

 

 

Then you still have a pretty alienistic PC.. Maybe it helps a lot to figure it out ?

On 6/19/2019 at 6:24 PM, [URU]Amraam said:

Hi,

 

I recently brought my old Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick back to life and noticed the same stutter and sometimes complete halt of the game when I activated the force feedback in the options menu.

 

Particularly with the Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro, the ffb effects are transfered as MIDI commands via a serial COM port. While trying to solve other issues with the joystick I found a rather strange work around to the stuttering issue that might work for those with other ffb joysticks. 

 

Just by opening a serial terminal software to monitor the joystick COM port, all the stuttering disapeared!

I'm using Termite, but it might also work with any other serial terminal program like PuTTy or RealTerm.

 

It might not work with the other ffb joysticks, but I think it's worth giving it a try.

  

 

 

 

Why didn't anybody bounce on that com ??!

 

It looks very promising on a single experience. Several years I didn't fire BoX now and I bought a Odyssey + VR in the meantime (still didn't try it) but I'd like to have a look on your work around suggestion for 2D.

 

On the problem itself, if we try to sum up all that ****ing problem which lasts since years now :

 

# Plenty of people using FFB (Microsoft Sidewinder FFB2 mainly) + TrackIR (5 mainly) are reporting abnormal stuttering since years. BUT :

     # Some people are experiencing the same only with Tir.

     # Some people are experiencing the same only with FFB (?).

     # Some people have no problem at all.

     # Some people are experiencing the same problem in other titles (DCS). Most people report this works like a charm in this very DCS.

 

# Devs denied the problem for a long time (was hardware related, settings related, etc), then provided a few tips to improve the things a bit.

 

# Some people provided some work arounds but there hadn't been a lot of people adding their positive experience by trying it.

 

# Some people unfortunately just left the game...

 

Do you guys see anything in that desert ?

[JG7_X-Man]

I am not sure what video card/Processor/RAM one has installed as anything to do with anything.

Remember The FFB stick I used was developed 12 yrs ago! Unless you are running a PC built in 1997 - I am sure your hardware can handle it.

 

The MS Force Feedback 2 Joystick doesn't have software per say but Win 7 & 10 both recognize it and it can be calibrated, but not programmed, I think this is the 1st issue.

The 2nd issue may be peripheral connections - I connect mine via a USB 3.0 powered hub and a direct connection to the PC via 3.0/2.0 USB will also work.

 

If you are using some 15-pin hack - I don't know what to tell you.

 

[l3VGV]

06.05.2020 в 17:56, JG7_X-Man сказал:

The MS Force Feedback 2 Joystick doesn't have software per say but Win 7 & 10 both recognize it and it can be calibrated, but not programmed, I think this is the 1st issue.

 

Ther is nothin inside ms ffb2 what can be or need to be programmed. Deadzone setting was software feature of old win 9x/2000 drivers, when PID part of HID spec was not implemented, but in windows XP and later PID driver is present so joystick drivers is not necessary.

 

 

06.05.2020 в 14:25, Solmyr сказал:

Do you guys see anything in that desert ?

 

Well. I spent some time and made my own FFB compatible usb joystick controller. And guess what - no stutter. I cant say what gives, i just emulated ms ffb2 on stm32 board

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/12943-народный-ffb-возможно/page/5/?tab=comments#comment-804722

My controller is 1ms so it can handle 1kHz report rate. But ms ffb2 descriptors say the same. No idea why my is not stutter in games, but with ms ffb2 i have 4fps in warthunder and alot of stutter in il2. 

 

To make you understand how bad situation is. It is not just il2 and MS FFB2, all games, for example - racing ones, with ffb devices are affected. 

Old devices that is. New wheels works fine, just as my stm32 prototype.

FreeJoy will roll out forcefeedback compatible firmware in January, if anyone interested. 

 

 

https://forums.codemasters.com/topic/42650-f1-2019-logitech-g27-force-feedback-and-stuttering-issues/?sortby=date

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/310560/discussions/0/490125103623736872/?ctp=3

 

 

***

 

Right now im trying to find out what is it, where is the problem. With COM port mouse to look around in quick flight, stutter still present. So it is not a USB issue. Something inside PID and HID libraries i bet(but why TrackIR is affected, its not a HID device and data from it pooled totally different way), but we have no sources, cant peek inside...

 

[l3VGV]

Wouldyalookatthat!

 

http://www.prepared3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132113

[Cdt_Sylvestre]

I just managed to find a second hand MSFFB2 joystick in pristine condition this week. It worked very well on most of my sims (DCS, MSFS2020 + XPForce plugin, Condor) but the stuterring was driving me crazy in IL2 BoX.

 

Just in case anyone stumble into this thread in 2022 or later... this issue (old microsoft force feedback stick inducing stuttering when panning view with mouse or trackir) can be fixed through the use of a dedicated dynamic library dinput8.dll added to the game folder. Here is the link (in Russian) describing the issue (in a nutshell, the joystick getting more data than it can process): Il-2: Battle for Force Feeback (MS FFB2 + TrackIR) and here is the link to the custom dll (on github).

 

Added bonus: this also fixes a bug in DCS with the F14 (no stuterring but input lag when the stick shakes in tight turns / close to stall condition). In both cases, just put the dll (I used the 64bit version) in the same folder as the game exe.

[Solmyr]

2 hours ago, Cdt_Sylvestre said:

I just managed to find a second hand MSFFB2 joystick in pristine condition this week. It worked very well on most of my sims (DCS, MSFS2020 + XPForce plugin, Condor) but the stuterring was driving me crazy in IL2 BoX.

 

Just in case anyone stumble into this thread in 2022 or later... this issue (old microsoft force feedback stick inducing stuttering when panning view with mouse or trackir) can be fixed through the use of a dedicated dynamic library dinput8.dll added to the game folder. Here is the link (in Russian) describing the issue (in a nutshell, the joystick getting more data than it can process): Il-2: Battle for Force Feeback (MS FFB2 + TrackIR) and here is the link to the custom dll (on github).

 

Added bonus: this also fixes a bug in DCS with the F14 (no stuterring but input lag when the stick shakes in tight turns / close to stall condition). In both cases, just put the dll (I used the 64bit version) in the same folder as the game exe.

 

Really ?

There is fix to this damn sh** eventually ?!

 

Need to try this asap ?

 

Merci M. Sylvestre !

[Tea-Pig]

So here we are now half way through 2022 and I just got myself a Sidewinder2 after reading about how great some people think they are. To my surprise it was (almost) plug and play and worked instantly with IL2 but I got the camera stutter problem. I'm quite sensitive to camera stutter having been plagued with it in DCS. So I search and find this thread which I read from the start with an increasing sense of disappointment but then I get to the end and read Cdt_Sylvestre's dll fix, and I try it, and it works perfectly.

 

So thank you for the links and to those who discovered this.

 

 

[dacuda]

My MSFFB2 just stopped working with IL2. The stick works but the FF is always 100% and too stiff to fly. I cant even enable or disable without a reboot but the stick remains unresponsive. Worked fine before, its depressing, I miss flying. 

I wonder if that custom DLL would do anything? My stopped working after the June 15th update although maybe its something else if some people still have the stick working.