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G6 vs La5fn

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Hi everyone,

As we await these two beasts, I was curious what you all thought would be the outcome should a 109g6 meet a La5fn, assuming equally matched pilots who know their own craft’s and enemy’s craft’s strengths and weaknesses equally.

 

I’m a fan of the 109 but I’m not too informed on the Russian planes. I’ve read nothing but excitement on this forum for the upcoming 5fn and it’s potential. Haven’t heard much for the G6.

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I'm sure some of the folks can do a more detailed breakdown but my understanding follows roughly this. The La-5FN will be one of the best Russian fighters available in the series so far and that it will, at low to medium altitudes be contending for best fighter on either side. It will be fast, agile and well armed and potentially able to run down German fighters at this altitude.

 

The Bf109G-6 will do what Bf109s do best which is dominate the high ground with superior altitude performance. As I understand it, the G-6 is heavier and therefore a little lower performing than the G-4 and G-2 though the differences may be fairly small. I expect handling to slightly suffer while firepower goes up. The twin MG131 heavy machine guns in the nose along with the standard MG151/20 will be a heck of a punch. Even more-so with the MK108 30mm cannon option which will be devastating thanks to high fire rates and high explosive power (its chief weakness as a weapon is its low muzzle velocity).

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Most combat will take place at low alt (it is the Russian front after all) so basically 'RIP G6 pilot'. I'll still fly it though!  :biggrin:

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We're all assuming perfect situational awareness and pilot technique and tactics. It's still tactics, positioning, and good piloting that win the day. What the La-5FN does is give the Allies something that isn't just close to par in some categories but something that is very much on par or superior to the opposition... for the first time really.

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At the altitudes we fight at; LA5 will have the edge. People (usually red-only pilots) say 109 pilots will finally need to learn how to dogfight. This is an understandable opinion for a red-only pilot to have; but that is just a band-aid. More likely, G6 pilots will need to go the other direction, and perfect the art of the ambush instead.

Edited by hrafnkolbrandr
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Even as a Luftwaffe fan, I am excited about the La-5FN. I always liked the LA series as much as I like the 109's and 190's.

Edited by Warpig

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The G6 is going to retain its advantage in climb rate except perhaps at very low altitude, and it is going to be able to pull sharper angles. Above 4000m it will absolutely dominate as it does with every other opponent.

 

The FN is going to be an overall better version of the La-5 (think Bf 109F4 vs. F2) So if you like the La-5 now but just wish it had a better rear view and a little more power to work with, you are gonna love it. Else you might still find yourself struggling.

 

A well flown La-5FN will probably be the fastest and overall most effective fighter below 2000m, but it’ll still require more of its pilot than your average Bf 109, Fw 190 or Yak.

At the altitudes we fight at; LA5 will have the edge. People (usually red-only pilots) say 109 pilots will finally need to learn how to dogfight. This is an understandable opinion for a red-only pilot to have; but that is just a band-aid. More likely, G6 pilots will need to go the other direction, and perfect the art of the ambush instead.

I think this is an accurate assesment. To fly the G6 to its strengths against the FN does not involve toe-to-toe dogfighting at low altitude.

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There is going to be a lot of screaming from the LW ranks but all the L5FN is giving the VVS is *one* late war plane that is better on the deck than its LW opponents to add to the Yak-1b that can just about equal most contemporary LW fighters on at low alt.  The fact that most fights are down low is not really relevant unless you are a noob who just jumps into treetop furballs because as a LW pilot you only need to be above 4000m to be better than anything the VVS has.  That is easily low enough to see everything that is happening below,  dive in and kill a few things and climb back to 4000m in seconds.  Anyone that follows you up will be throwing away all their advantages and in most cases will be climbing slower than you. Anyone that joins the fight above 4000m will already be inferior.  Even the so called 'Russian High -Alt' fighter , the Mig-3,  is just good 'for a VVS fighter' and only up to 6K but is still slower than everything except the E7 & 110.

 

Bottom line: unless you are turnfighting below 4K or running away at treetops then nothing the VVS has, or expects to have,  will pose a risk to a late war LW fighter being flown sensibly;not even 'skillfully' just sensibly.  That is not to say many LW fighters will not get killed but let's be honest, the majority of kills are not the result of superior aircraft or superior dogfighting skills. They are usually the result of the victim doing something stupid or not checking his 6.  There are videos out there of people getting 6 kills in a single sortie in P40s & even JU87s! :-)

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex

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 There are videos out there of people getting 6 kills in a single sortie in P40s & even JU87s! :-)

Im already excited for Scharfis triple ace in a flight La5FN video. :D

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A friend that is a true expert in Air Combat History told me he finds the FN to be the best ww2 fighter...

 

I am really looking fwd into it.

 

My preferred, since the FDM and engine update, is still the 40E, closely followed by the Yak1b.

 

On the Axix side I really like the 202, and the A-3.

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Im already excited for Scharfis triple ace in a flight La5FN video. :D

Yeah, she’s gonna rock that ride :)

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A friend that is a true expert in Air Combat History told me he finds the FN to be the best ww2 fighter...

 

I am really looking fwd into it.

 

My preferred, since the FDM and engine update, is still the 40E, closely followed by the Yak1b.

 

On the Axix side I really like the 202, and the A-3.

La5fn is like that yeah. its also massively produced which alongside its traits gives it its place.

 

Its successor la7 is just the best and an ideal fighter of ww2 easy. At least on the russian front and below 5k.

 

Come to think of it both were designed from a lagg3.

Edited by Max_Damage

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In the online environment the relative differences between the Luftwaffe and VVS will not change from what we have now.

 

The Luftwaffe will be making pretty contrails and picking off lone VVS aircraft with impunity, while the VVS controls the ground game and "wins" the map, while the virtual Hartmanns rack up high kill counts, but otherwise have no effect on the missions.

 

Nothing will change overall.

 

Nothing.

  • Upvote 3

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The Luftwaffe will be making pretty contrails and picking off lone VVS aircraft with impunity, while the VVS controls the ground game and "wins" the map, while the virtual Hartmanns rack up high kill counts, but otherwise have no effect on the missions.

Sounds about right, and not entirely historically incorrect.

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As I understood it the G 6 was a excellent weapon suited the Luftwaffe pilots in every way, please remember there is a difference in Early and late model. The Luftwaffe doctrine was never to place themselves in front of a enemy fighter. It was very difficult for any opponents to do so if the numbers correspond.

The huge bulb and heavier armament did not make it a better fighter, quite the opposite . I think the G6 looks mean and are mean behind me in my IL 2 or PE 2, because it gonna be a killer for those two, but if people fly if like a F4 they are in for a nasty dissapointment 

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte

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This has the potential to be a very fun match up. The La5-FN will have the edge over the 109G-6 at low altitude while the G-6 will control the high ground.

 

The current online fights with G2 and G4 against La5F are a blast, but with the 109 you can reach an altitude to control the fight, and once you do that it's a hard time for the Lavochkin pilot. It's going to be the same thing with the 109G-6 and La5-FN with the exception that the margins for the 109 will be smaller.

 

I'm looking forward to the 109G-6 - the thinking man's fighter. It will richly reward competence while not suffering fools lightly.

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I think some people here does have quite unrealistic expectations about FN. It was strong opponent to LW planes of that time but not really anykind of wonder weapon.

 

G6 pilot need to avoid low level turn fights of course.

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G6 pilot need to avoid low level turn fights of course.

 

Is that the worst thing you could do against it though? Does anyone have the sustained turn rate numbers of both at hand?

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Sounds about right, and not entirely historically incorrect.

 

No, it sounds like nonsense, because it is nonsense - unless you believe the appalling quantity of Sturmoviks and other VVS aircraft lost during WW2 were shot down by "wannabe Hartmans"  who were making "pretty contrails"?

 

The Luftwaffe flew fighters at treetop level frequently during the war on the eastern front (not debatable) and it's the exact same online.

 

If anything, it is a tremendous challenge online to get LW pilots off the deck and using their natural advantage more often than they do.

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No, it sounds like nonsense, because it is nonsense - unless you believe the appalling quantity of Sturmoviks and other VVS aircraft lost during WW2 were shot down by "wannabe Hartmans" who were making "pretty contrails"?

 

The Luftwaffe flew fighters at treetop level frequently during the war on the eastern front (not debatable) and it's the exact same online.

 

If anything, it is a tremendous challenge online to get LW pilots off the deck and using their natural advantage more often than they do.

I meant it in the more general sense, that the Luftwaffe as a whole failed on a both tactical and operational level from late 1942 onwards, despite the enormous number of aircraft the Jagdstaffelen claimed to shoot down.

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from late 1942 onwards,

 

 

Late 2 the stratigic wise thing to do for Germany was trying to get best possible deal out of a surrender

 

 

 

The Luftwaffe flew fighters at treetop level frequently during the war on the eastern front (not debatable) and it's the exact same online.

 

Not debateable you say, well we see about that.

Comparing history with this and any other simulator is utter rubbish, nothing in this game happen in a historical way. Except some of the results. This is why people long for COOP , so they get a chance to get a historical feel out of this

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Late 2 the stratigic wise thing to do for Germany was trying to get best possible deal out of a surrender

 

Arguably, they should have pursued that option, when the whole grand plan for Barbarossa came crashing down in December 1941.

 

What I’m talking about is, that the Luftwaffe had become largely impotent as an offensive force on the operational level by late ‘42. The last German operation where the Luftwaffe served as the spearhead of the Army was during the advance in Caucasus in summer/fall 1942. From there on it would mainly be trying (and failing) to assist on the defensive.

 

Anyway, we are far off topic by now. Back to the anticipated awesomeness of the La-5FN.

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I predict servers hosted in Russia with LA5N planes in abundance. BF109 G6 in limited numbers at rear base and unable to customize the plane at all (Think armored headrest)

 

Russian Bombers gunners set to ACE while German bomber gunners set to neub.

 

All this with a ping at 283ms.

 

I could be wrong though.

 

maybe this!

 

A new server that does not require windows for hosting! So that hosting does not run past 5-6 hundred a month!

A ping well under 75ms!

BF109 G6 in abundance with full customization! (Think no armored headrest)

LA5N in limited numbers at the rear base!

German Bomber gunners set to ace!

Russian bomber Gunners set to nueb!

 

Time will tell!

  • Upvote 1

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Anti-aircraft fire.

 

All of them?

 

Maybe flak in BoX modeled correctly after all.

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nothing in this game happen in a historical way.

 

I beg your pardon, sir - why just the other day I was in a 109 making pretty contrails and doing other frowned-upon things.

  • Upvote 1

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This is why people long for COOP , so they get a chance to get a historical feel out of this

+1

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despite the enormous number of aircraft the Jagdstaffelen claimed to shoot down.

 

Also the small few they actually did shoot down. :joy:

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With actuall elevator control responsibility of 109  i think G-6 and all other 109s would be only flying target for La5FN. Even inital 109 altitude adventage give you nothing without control at high speed. If You even dive from above at high speed you cant aim and hit target if you slow you are dead :)

Edited by 303_Kwiatek
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Predicting that vvs planes are gonna be op is pretty much the standard by now I guess ? LOL

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What’s faster at seal level using combat power(ish)?

 

Will the g6 outclimb the la5fn easily at all altitudes?

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iirc from the previous thread down low the FN has really good climb, and the La5 atm already runs down 109s at ground level. Speedwise it shouldn't be close down low, FN can contest a 190.

Edited by Windmills

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True, but don't act like red aircraft never did anything better than their blue counterparts. That "small envelope" is the place where almost all the action that matters on our maps takes place.

 

Sometimes we get so hung up on raw engine performance that we forget that. Probably the most noticeable change we're likely to see from the FN is that Germans won't neccessarily be able to disengage at will any more.

 

The change I am hoping to see from it is more pilots, when they find they can't be untouchable, decide to occasionally fly ground attackers and win some maps.

Edited by hrafnkolbrandr

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