Jump to content
YIPPEE

How the current contact visibility negatively impact tactics in BOX

Recommended Posts

I do not post very frequently on these forums so I would like to get one thing out of they way out of the Gate. Despite being newish to the forums, I am not new to this game or flight sims in general. I wanted to put this up front because there is a tendency on online discussion groups to discredit or behave rudely towards newcomers because they do not fall inside of certain in-groups sphere of known entities. 

 

 

I read through several threads on this site regarding complaints in the current vision system, and while I think much of value was said, I think one of the most critical aspects of the issue is being overlooked. Most of the focus seems to have been on general difficulty in spotting contacts, the way contacts simply "jump" into view due to the render range, and pure distance at which contacts should be spotted. All of these points are valid and important to fixing the spotting mechanics. 

 

But I want to focus on what I see as the most vital part of why I think the spotting mechanics need fixed, and that is the way in which they significantly hamper tactics. Even when contacts are in range, they are too difficult to spot. Contacts at relatively short ranges of only 1-2km are hard enough to spot that the pilot has to spend an inordinate amount of his general effort simply trying to maintain a track. Because of this, many tactical considerations that are relevant in real life and other simulations are either not relevant in BOX or significantly hampered. 

         

When I pilot performs a bounce, it is nearly suicidal to stick around for more than 1-2 passes on a single bandit. (even worse if there is more than one initial contact) This is because the initial contact is already hard enough to track that keeping sight on it while also searching for incoming threats is not practical. Specifically, this is because quick glances out of the cockpit to check the surroundings between passes will not likely detect anything that is not immediately on top of the attacker. In order spot contacts beyond point blank distances, the player has to very methodically check the surrounding airspace, which cannot be done while also trying to keep track of the initial contact. Once engaged, it also becomes infinitely more likely to be spotted by other bandits, since it is easier to spot two or 3 planes fighting (tracers etc) than it is to see "out" of the fight. 

 

It is much harder to do this than it is in many other sims, excluding the [Edited] that is DCS spotting. Because the attacker does not have a good ability to maintain situational awareness during an attack, it is not wise to make more than 1 or 2 passes. This has the consequence of reducing defense against BnZ and other energy fighting to merely sharp turns to avoid high speed attacks. A smart energy fighter IRL and in other sims could eventually whittle down his opponent with multiple attacks, and run if someone else tried to enter the fight to assist the defender. This does not happen in BOX because it is too hard to maintain SA and fight at the same time. 

 

Ultimately the current spotting system inherently lends itself to people and planes that prefer close in turning engagements. It is near impossible for a group of smart and disciplined energy fighters to maintain their position and then disengage or adjust when new arrivals show up. Commitment to an engagement for any length of time results in either being forced to dogfight or death. 

 

The biggest thing apart from general contact size that could be done to fix this is to change general contact contrast against backdrop. Especially when contacts are coming in a low aspect angles. Aircraft blend in with trees far too easily. They blend in with the sky too easily as well. If possible, the aircraft LOD should dynamically adjust to change the size (artificially) of various aircraft parts to improve spotting from certain angles. And example would be the LOD on the wings thickening at certain distances and angle etc. 

Edited by Bearcat
Profanity
  • Upvote 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand your complaints and agree with them. I believe that the devs are making a huge fix to it with the next big patch release. However, in my experience, you don’t need to scan the surrounding sky as thoroughly as you should your six. Every time an opponent disappears he usually ends up on your six.

 

As to the LOD changes, I like it if it simulates reality more closely. If it’s just to make spotting easier you will have a very tough sell here in this community.

 

The best fix for the spotting issues is to have a competent wingman who will cover you correctly and not join the fight unless needed. This is the only real way to keep yourself appraised of the situation around you while you attack.

Edited by 19//p3zman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I do agree with some points of the op, I still think that the hardcoded "feature" of planes popping in and out of the 10km distance bubble more important than the spotting itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah sometimes while flying I'd suddenly fight myself inside a dogfight. Perhaps we can have optional extended visibility, we can also copy War Thunder's style of having simplified planes models at a distance.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, spotting isn't easy. Just look at how often cars get overlooked in traffic. The closer to reality a sim gets the harder spotting becomes (more or less). This of course depends also on a lot of rendering factors (smoothness, filters etc) but in the end it comes down to being pretty hard.

 

I personally would just like to have custom icons, then you could have servers that show enemies and friendlies that are closer than 1.5 km for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, spotting isn't easy. Just look at how often cars get overlooked in traffic. The closer to reality a sim gets the harder spotting becomes (more or less). This of course depends also on a lot of rendering factors (smoothness, filters etc) but in the end it comes down to being pretty hard.

 

I personally would just like to have custom icons, then you could have servers that show enemies and friendlies that are closer than 1.5 km for example.

This really is not the case in real life. Spotting aircraft IRL is generally speaking much easier than it is in BOX, and flight simulations in general when they do not have mechanics to compensate. Eyes offer far superior resolution and contrasting ability than your computer monitor does, even if you are playing in 4k OLED. Closer to reality does not always mean more difficult.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, spotting isn't easy. Just look at how often cars get overlooked in traffic. The closer to reality a sim gets the harder spotting becomes (more or less). This of course depends also on a lot of rendering factors (smoothness, filters etc) but in the end it comes down to being pretty hard.

 

I personally would just like to have custom icons, then you could have servers that show enemies and friendlies that are closer than 1.5 km for example.

Dude you really gotta get your eyes checked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Spotting aircraft IRL is generally speaking much easier than it is in BOX

 

I started flying gliders this year and I can not relate to that. I spot easier on greater distances in BoX more often. Visibility greatly improved since the dx11 patch. Of course I have my settings tuned for best visibility but still. To spot an aircraft against a clear sky is no problem (this is a part where BoK lacks - true) but most of the time the sky isn't clear and the objects you are searching for below the horizon.

 

You know I absolutely see you point from the gameplay perspective. Hence why I keep my suggestion about Icons. Of course Smartscaling could be an option too, I like it as an option and just not as a default.

 

Dude you really gotta get your eyes checked.

 

Thanks, but I do that regularily. ;) Misunderstand my comment as you like.

Edited by 216th_Jordan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"because they do not fall inside of certain in-groups sphere of known entities"

 

[Edited]

 

Really? :huh:

Edited by Bearcat
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“Spotting is WAY easier IRL!”

 

Whatever. I fly helicopters four days a week in a high density corridor. Finding a 737 at twelve miles with ATC giving you the alt and bearing in the daylight isn’t too hard. Locating a bright white Cessna off a TCAS ping at two miles with both crew scanning is a pain and can get your blood pumping if you don’t locate him quickly. Sometimes traffic at night with the same ATC Info can be hard to find. Locating a dark AC against RL ground clutter is hard and should be in game as well. Camouflage that same AC and I’m sure it a PITA but that is generally outside my experience. I’m not saying Spotting shouldn’t be easier in game but guys saying how EASY spotting is in real life are talking through their hats.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“Spotting is WAY easier IRL!”

 

Whatever. I fly helicopters four days a week in a high density corridor. Finding a 737 at twelve miles with ATC giving you the alt and bearing in the daylight isn’t too hard. Locating a bright white Cessna off a TCAS ping at two miles with both crew scanning is a pain in the ass and can get your blood pumping if you don’t locate him quickly. Sometimes traffic at night with the same ATC Info can be hard to find. Locating a dark AC against ground clutter is hard and should be. Camouflage that same AC and I’m sure it a PITA. I’m not saying Spotting shouldn’t be easier in game but guys saying how EASY spotting is in real life are talking through their hats.

 

Just curious and a little OT. But for your night flights do you civil aviators have access to NV equipment of any capacity? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What would really help flight sims is adopting the new HDR video standards. Many games already have this. This isn’t the HDR seen on game graphics. It’s basically 10-bit color which allows for billions of colors instead of millions. Much greater range of color and contrast.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-dynamic-range_video

All 4K HDR TVs currently have this, monitors are starting to appear too.

 

Otherwise I’ve always thought this series and RoF have really superb spotting ability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just curious and a little OT. But for your night flights do you civil aviators have access to NV equipment of any capacity?

Most do not but I’m not exactly a standard civil pilot. I’m a cop and we have multiple night vision sensors including NVG’s. They have their own set of strengths and weaknesses for spotting and ground clutter.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two points:

 

1.  World War II Online has this neat system where, if you're looking in the direction of an enemy contact long enough (and you'd be able to see him - ie, he's not hiding behind your wing or fuselage), a targeting circle around him slowly fades in.  It'll be gray, and only later changes to red or blue.  It fades out a bit faster if he manages to hide, and it also doesn't appear at long distance.  It REALLY helps even out things for people with smaller monitors, while still rewarding those who have the common sense to look around and focus on suspicious moving pixels.  It's also much nicer than the bright red icons we have now, especially since you can get behind an opponent to make him lose contact.

 

2.  The 10km limit is going to be more problematic with the faster aircraft coming in BoBo.  Especially for/against the 262.  ~12 seconds and the 262 at full speed has moved 10km.  The Tempest will move 10km in 16 seconds on the deck, whereas the A-3 right now needs about 18.5.  2.5 seconds might not seem like much, but given the distances that fast planes need to turn, and that they could be heading in opposite directions (ie, a Tempest and a 190 do a head-on, they pass each other, climb a bit to regain energy - each going the opposite direction.  Suddenly we're talking 9 seconds until they can't see each other)... it's gonna get REALLY annoying.

Edited by thebusdriver
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The main problem I feel is that of limited size of monitors.  VR peeps say spotting is much easier where vision is represented close to real scale.  On monitors under 50 Inch at default FOV, we are getting a smaller image to see things at.

 

It will be interesting what higher res HMD's for VR bring us because at the moment although spotting at distance is not an issue, aircraft identification is due to low res and screen door on current HMD's.

 

Also note tactically online, many people fly in small numbers or lone wolfing which is contrary to what happened during the war except for Luftwaffe Fighters on a sweep.  A formation of planes is easier to spot in the distance than 1 or 2.  We also don't get sun reflections off glass like in real life which could also help but for those Luftwaffe Fighter Sweeps, look for contrails instead as they like to fly high.  Much easier to spot than an Il2 low on the deck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m gonna have to concentrate on sun glits off of glass for a few weeks. I don’t recall ever finding a tough spot because I saw the sun reflecting off a canopy. Airplane, yes. Windscreen, unknown. I’ll get back to you on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The main problem I feel is that of limited size of monitors.  VR peeps say spotting is much easier where vision is represented close to real scale.  On monitors under 50 Inch at default FOV, we are getting a smaller image to see things at.

It's even worse. Things appear in natural size on a 50" monitor only if your viewing distance is not larger than 1 m AND you use the somewhat restricted "normal" FOV (which largely corresponds to closing one eye). If you want to gain SA and to have a FOV corresponding to two-eyes vision, you have to zoom out as far as you can, but in this case things will appear smaller than IRL.

 

 

1.  World War II Online has this neat system where, if you're looking in the direction of an enemy contact long enough (and you'd be able to see him - ie, he's not hiding behind your wing or fuselage), a targeting circle around him slowly fades in.  It'll be gray, and only later changes to red or blue.  It fades out a bit faster if he manages to hide, and it also doesn't appear at long distance.  It REALLY helps even out things for people with smaller monitors, while still rewarding those who have the common sense to look around and focus on suspicious moving pixels.  It's also much nicer than the bright red icons we have now, especially since you can get behind an opponent to make him lose contact.

 

+1

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started flying gliders this year and I can not relate to that. I spot easier on greater distances in BoX more often. Visibility greatly improved since the dx11 patch. Of course I have my settings tuned for best visibility but still. To spot an aircraft against a clear sky is no problem (this is a part where BoK lacks - true) but most of the time the sky isn't clear and the objects you are searching for below the horizon.

 

You know I absolutely see you point from the gameplay perspective. Hence why I keep my suggestion about Icons. Of course Smartscaling could be an option too, I like it as an option and just not as a default.

 

 

Thanks, but I do that regularily. ;) Misunderstand my comment as you like.

I also started flying gliders, and agree with him. Spotting other aircraft is harder IRL often than in the game (using VR), and the other gliders are usually white. I have perfect vision btw.

The amount of details IRL makes it much harder to single out another aircraft of this size.

 

The game is already easier. What you may need are proper controls/visual interface like VR - you don't track other aircraft you have seen a few seconds before with your eyes, but with a mindmap automatically. Just like irl. You don't get that with 2D graphics (monitor) and trackIR. That's the actual issue you have.

 

 

P.S. The 10km bubble needs to get doubled. Aircraft at these ranges must only be rendered as dotlike, for reasonable performance.

Edited by 2./JG51_Fenris_Wolf
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you may need are proper controls/visual interface like VR ... You don't get that with 2D graphics (monitor) and trackIR. That's the actual issue you have.

If you put it on the box that "VR is strongly recommended to play this game", the sales will not be rocketing. If everybody not having VR abandons this game, you won't enjoy it for long either. Just saying. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spotting IRL is definitely easier than it is IRL. For those touting personal experience to the contrary, my opinion on this is based on both my own experience and my consultation with quite a few military pilots I have association with. Your sentiments are noted, but I have already received enough first hand accounts to the contrary to satisfy my need for that kind of evidence.

 

Additionally for those interested in aircraft spotting data:

 

 http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA241347

 

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/154193128703101102

 

Computer games are at a host of disadvantages compared to real life. They are not even in the same ballpark, especially VR. The Human eye is miles superior in resolution, contrast sensitivity, FOV, etc. To use an example that more people will have first hand experience with, it is FAR easier in real life to pick out individual people for shots with a rifle than it is in video games. If you take something like ARMA for example, and compare a man at 600m to one IRL, the man IRL is much larger in size. Video games are simply not at the point where the reflect human visual acuity yet. 

Edited by Fumes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to be a little slow on the uptake at times. I've tried to figure it out but I must be getting too old  - so -- what does everybody mean when you're referring to "BOX"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Camouflage works dude.

 

masada-flyover.jpg

 

And yet I can see these? This image doesn't show anything of value. Its the equivalent of trying to prove camo work by posting one of those find the sniper motivators. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spotting IRL is definitely easier than it is IRL. For those touting personal experience to the contrary, my opinion on this is based on both my own experience and my consultation with quite a few military pilots I have association with. Your sentiments are noted, but I have already received enough first hand accounts to the contrary to satisfy my need for that kind of evidence.

 

Additionally for those interested in aircraft spotting data:

 

 http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA241347

 

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/154193128703101102

 

Computer games are at a host of disadvantages compared to real life. They are not even in the same ballpark, especially VR. The Human eye is miles superior in resolution, contrast sensitivity, FOV, etc. To use an example that more people will have first hand experience with, it is FAR easier in real life to pick out individual people for shots with a rifle than it is in video games. If you take something like ARMA for example, and compare a man at 600m to one IRL, the man IRL is much larger in size. Video games are simply not at the point where the reflect human visual acuity yet. 

 

Neither of those docs make your case. What exactly is your experience? You need to support your argument better than this to convince me my direct experience is to the contrary because I'm telling you locating aircraft, particularly at co-alt or lower can be extremely difficult and similar to in-game. Above the horizon (such as the bus example in your doc - at the end of a runway looking for an aircraft on approach) or above co-alt can be easier than in game but not always.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neither of those docs make your case. What exactly is your experience? You need to support your argument better than this to convince me my direct experience is to the contrary because I'm telling you locating aircraft, particularly at co-alt or lower can be extremely difficult and similar to in-game. Above the horizon (such as the bus example in your doc - at the end of a runway looking for an aircraft on approach) or above co-alt can be easier than in game but not always.

Both of those documents very much make my case. And I am not here to make my case to you. The purpose of letting you know I had access to other first-hand knowledge is merely to let you know that I have sufficient evidence to the contrary that your personal anecdote does have an effect on my opinion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to be a little slow on the uptake at times. I've tried to figure it out but I must be getting too old  - so -- what does everybody mean when you're referring to "BOX"?

 

IL2 Sturmovik: Battle of X - where X represents each of the modules; BoS, Bom, BoK, BoBp. BoX just means the game as a whole.

Both of those documents very much make my case. And I am not here to make my case to you. The purpose of letting you know I had access to other first-hand knowledge is merely to let you know that I have sufficient evidence to the contrary that your personal anecdote does have an effect on my opinion. 

 

I know your opinion. My experience is not anecdotal. It is direct observation. What is your experience because it does not correspond to my or the other two pilot's on this thread. Thus far your opinion is merely opinion. If we're gonna get rude let me know. I can let the fangs hang out as well as the next guy.

 

I'm actually on board that spotting should be easier in-game and for some of the reasons you state. I take issue with being told how EASY spotting is in real life, as it isn't at all.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IL2 Sturmovik: Battle of X - where X represents each of the modules; BoS, Bom, BoK, BoBp. BoX just means the game as a whole.

 

I know your opinion. My experience is not anecdotal. It is direct observation. What is your experience because it does not correspond to my or the other two pilot's on this thread. Thus far your opinion is merely opinion. If we're gonna get rude let me know. I can let the fangs hang out as well as the next guy.

Nothing in my last post was even slightly rude. 

 

Your experience to me is anecdotal, because I have consulted plenty of other people who have equal or greater experience and find that their opinion is contrary to yours. My own experience of seeing distance planes against the ground deepens my opinion. 

 

The point is merely to let you know have have good reason to not take your personal opinion too seriously, because I already have more than a mere two or three pilot opinions to go on. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, this has gotten silly now. You've ducked the question twice now. I'm out. My personal experience trumps your hearsay argument in the real world.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, this has gotten silly now. You've ducked the question twice now. I'm out. My personal experience trumps your hearsay argument in the real world.

Your personal experience doesn't trump my "hearsay" argument any more than my believing you would not be hearsay. 

 

I didn't duck any question. My personal experience is exactly what I said it was: I have seen distance planes from an above perspective. From context it would appear that what you are really looking for is for me to tell you that I don't spot planes professionally. I dont, but that really isn't relevant, and I never claimed to. 

Edited by Fumes
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never really give this much thought, and on reflection I guess it must be because I never really felt it much of an issue.

The 10k limit is a shame, but understandably hardware related, may be in the future this can be addressed. But from my experiences when looking for contacts they do sort of pop out of nowhere when you finally see them, so the artificial problem in the sim never jarred me too much.

Obviously spotting on a monitor compared to RL is different eyeballs vs RL and pixels. However in my experience it is believable.

I spent a lot of time flying out of a very busy military and civil airport with practically no ATC, at high density traffic times it was a bit of a free for all with many aircraft fuel critical. Spotting other aircraft even roughly knowing where to look was very hard, also considering most of the aircraft were larger than we have in BoX the military green and camouflage ones could disappear at very short ranges and were hard to Re- acquire, I flew in this environment for a couple of years, and it was quite stressful, I mentioned this particular time because it was unusual for spotting other aircraft being such a critical daily issue at similar ranges and altitudes as BoX series.

As I said I have not really given it much thought probably because it gels with my RL experience/expectations after many years of flying a lot if different categories of aircraft and helicopters

 

Cheers Dakpilot

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not aviation experience, but rather experience from picking out and tracking two legged targets. High traffic areas can make it much more difficult to spot specific targets because your eye has a tendency to pick up on the most visible movements.

 

Spotting one well camouflaged target on the move in an otherwise unoccupied environment is much easier than spotting one specific moderately camouflaged target among several others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spotting IRL is definitely easier than it is IRL. For those touting personal experience to the contrary, my opinion on this is based on both my own experience and my consultation with quite a few military pilots I have association with.

Depends what you mean with spotting. Telling from my personal experience fyling gliders or GA aircraft it depends on what you mean by "spotting".

 

In my senese, spotting is the ability to visually detect and track ALL objects that can interfere with your flight path. These are not just aircraft, but also towers, cables, etc. In todays crowded airspace, I find this prerequisite of situational awareness EXTREMELY challenging and trivially esay in simulators, because very little is going on there, hardly any "clutter" as mentioned above.

 

If you use the term as on how fast someone answers your question "See that Cessna over there?" with "....uuuhhm.. yes!" then still i find that people online are FAR, FAR better in this sim (at least speaking of online players on WoL etc.). In my experience, in at least 4 out of 5 cases, when approaching an enemy plane, he will break away. Not counting the "auto-level victims" here. IRL, I find that I can approach other planes to the point where you ram them without them even showing the slightest move.

 

To their great shame, this includes military pilots as well. Just last time a former military pilot wanted to fly formation for a bit with his Bücker (two Bückers look nice), we were approacing him in a way that we put him into the sun and we called him out. He didn't spot us until we were at roughly 500 m range. He admitted that he took that somewhat personally, but in general I never expect another plane seeing me and always act accordingly.

 

With gliders it gets even worse. Spotting is easy, the gliders are big aircraft. Unless you look at them from the front or the back. This means that the most dangerous course is one of the least visible. Or in thermals. Especially early morning, everyone circling in the same thermal after dropping the tow line, and you might find yourself in company with 10 other gliders. Spotting now means, keeping track of ALL 10 aircraft, all the time. If you can see only 9, No.10 can cut off your tail.

 

Now that military traffic had decreased significantly over the Alps in the last 30 years, they are not so bad anomore asl "clutter". But more than once, when circling over a mountain ridge, sudenly WHAAAAMM!! fighter jets would pass to the left and to the right of myself, placing me withing their formation of four. Especially in one instance, the way the jet pilot turned his head toward me, showed that I was not the only one freaking out in that moment.

 

And by all means, spotting is, both URL or in the sim an aquired skill. People get good in this sim. Very good even. And if you set high contrast in graphics settings, you can see AC even at distance or along clouds rather clear. IRL, people oftendo not practise spotting like in the sim. and I find that in average they are very, very bad at it. Yes, they see the airliner 40 km away. But don't notice the Piper just over there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think it's a shame that we need to use zoom for view. I very much doubt most pilots had a pair of binos around their neck, but I would be totally lost in BoX without the aid of zoom.

  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My problem is not actually with how difficult it is or isn't to spot something that's visible somewhere out there in the sky.

 

The main issue I have, is the many times when I was looking at empty airspace, and all the sudden, one or more (usually a group) of aircraft materialized there well inside of the supposed minimum 10km range. 

These could be clearly seen popping into existence, where before there was nothing.  Their apparent sizes several pixels across, just as they pierce through the "event horizon" and finally become visible.

 

 

I have been trying to record this to verify the many claims of this same and related phenomena, yet it appears may not be a network issue as much as a graphical one.

 

 All tracks so far recorded feature contacts appearing at ranges between 8 and 9.5km.  I have not been able to capture any appearances closer than 8.2km as of yet.  But there have been many occasions in which I saw very close "pop ins" and sadly was not recording to find out their distances later.  

 

I have indeed, however, confirmed beyond a doubt that there is in fact a clear variation to contact appearance distances.  10km is a best-case "maximum" scenario.  Yet the majority of contacts appear at ranges closer to 9km.

 

 

Nevertheless I do still believe many times contacts still appear at ranges of 7km and less.  Others have claimed this as well.

 

But while I have not managed yet to capture any such extreme events on track,  it would still not do to dismiss these claims upon what track recordings show. 

If the problem is indeed graphical, then a contact which had remained invisible at the time of recording might just as easily appear normally in a track.  This is my main suspicion at present.

 

 

Tests must surely be performed to determine whether or not contacts can indeed remain invisible within the prescribed 10km range.  There are too many accounts of this happening for us to safely dismiss that possibility. We can't all simply suck at spotting.  I do not recall contacts being as elusive in CloD either, in well over a thousand hours of MP experience there.

Edited by 19//Moach
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your personal experience doesn't trump my "hearsay" argument any more than my believing you would not be hearsay. 

 

I didn't duck any question. My personal experience is exactly what I said it was: I have seen distance planes from an above perspective. From context it would appear that what you are really looking for is for me to tell you that I don't spot planes professionally. I dont, but that really isn't relevant, and I never claimed to.

 

My brain hurts ...

 

Back to the topic:

 

I fly in VR and I have no choice but to rely on artificial aids (icons, map) to keep situational awareness because the resolution won't allow visual spotting. The benefits of VR far out-weigh that limitation though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

We can't all simply suck at spotting.

Most are very good at spotting I find. At least in MP.

 

I have not obseverd the "popping up" of AC inside the bubble as you describe. Then again, I really suck at spotting in the game, so that is probably why I Don't obseve it.

 

But even if it is the case, then it might be a bug that could be corrected. But as objects actuall do "pop up" once you detected them in real world vision, I can live with that until then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, I guess I will be the impolite but honest guy and mention the obvious - just ignore Fumes, this is a person that does not respect nor listen to when others give their time to talk about their first hand experience. He is talking against a wall of people which have actual examples, yet still he does not even receive anything.

 

As mentioned before me by Lensmann, this is also giving me a headache by now. 

 

Read through the thread, it is a dead horse by now still getting clubbed by Fumes. I'd say, give this dead horse a rest!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My brain hurts ...

 

Back to the topic:

 

I fly in VR and I have no choice but to rely on artificial aids (icons, map) to keep situational awareness because the resolution won't allow visual spotting. The benefits of VR far out-weigh that limitation though.

 

I am with you there, I fly SP only and I toggle icons on and off as needed (mainly for id of a target), along with using the large map occasionally as well.

I have no shame lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the fact that spotting is difficult. Of course it changes the tactical situation and player behavior, and it should. I very much doubt that WW2 pilots bouncing their target would make more than one pass. Whether you hit the target or not, you get the hell away asap.

Edited by Nibbio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...