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RustyEagle

ability to rearm, refuel, and repair

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Saves me a post.

I was about to remark on the obvious difference in realism and historical veracity between teleportation and spawning.

You just can't compare the two.

One is clearly represents the real world, the other one doesn't.

 

Pretend that you're walking to a new aircraft that is waiting for you.  Realism!

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If I wanted to, I could teleport myself, or respawn if you like, across the map to a different airfield 100s of kms away.

 

I was simply remarking on the obvious differences in realism offered by the respawn system vs R+R where one retains time, place and circumstances.

 

Look, I'm not trying to convince anyone that R+R is 100% realistic and that respawning is wrong. I was simply responding to the argument that R+R is 'gamey', which makes no sense when compared to a less realistic system of 'respawning', which seems obviously MORE gamey. 

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Pretend that you're walking to a new aircraft that is waiting for you.  Realism!

 

On another similar note, how careful would you be with your virtual life/flying if someone was standing beside you with a sock full of gravel to smack you in the face with if you got shot?

Not so related I know, but it reminded me if real world steps we can take to up the realism factor.

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Gambit,

please, stop with the silly arguments.

 

Two simple facts are present in this 4 page thread.

 

Over 90% of people polled supported the idea of Refueling and rearming. Almost 600 people voted for it. Clearly you are part of that 9.001% who do not like the idea.

ATAG servers currently use this feature as well as DCS and plenty of people enjoy and use it every day in multiplayer.

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On another similar note, how careful would you be with your virtual life/flying if someone was standing beside you with a sock full of gravel to smack you in the face with if you got shot?

Not so related I know, but it reminded me if real world steps we can take to up the realism factor.

 

Not to mention playing in a walk in freezer on winter maps.

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Gambit,

please, stop with the silly arguments.

 

 

 I make one tongue-in-cheek remark after all my other posts and now I have stop being silly.

I think you missed the point. (silly gravel sock comment aside)

 

My post about the teleportation/Spawning was illustrating the silliness of nitpicking Flit's use of the word teleport.

6 of one....

I knew it would throw a few people. :)

 

I think if you like the idea say so and don't try and convince anyone.

If you don't, say so and maybe why...and move on.

The Dev's already have a producer to ferret out good ideas vs bad, BSR and the like are not going to sway anyone.

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I'm pretty sure the devs are aware of this topic, since this is about the 500th thread related to it.  Do we really need thread 501?

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I'm pretty sure the devs are aware of this topic, since this is about the 500th thread related to it.  Do we really need thread 501?

 

Can't argue with that.

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I'm pretty sure the devs are aware of this topic, since this is about the 500th thread related to it.  Do we really need thread 501?

yes why not have another. What other purpose does the forums have? The point is to have a discussion about the game that we enjoy playing. And this topic is about adding a feature that many people would enjoy using and enhance their experience.
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It's enough that ghosts start my engine. Them doing R&R would be too many ghosts for me. Spooky :D

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Lets not kid ourselves, waiting for a minute or two for RRR would not particularly add to immersion beyond having to taxi and shut down. All it would really achieve is reserving that player/pilot's spot on a given server. I can't really see any but the most avid 'immersionists' (yay! I just invented a word) wanting to land, taxi, shut down, wait a realistic amount of time for RRR (particularly repairs) and then take back off, For most this would just be an unwanted time-sink. I just don't really see the benefits in terms of either gameplay or assignment of developer time to bring this feature into the game and I don't believe the arguement "well other games do it" is particularly valid. At most it would be a convenience.

 

Then again I suppose that there were probably some people that used to also play Silent Hunter in real time.

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I'm not bothered one way or the other.

 

The only point of protest I would have is if valuable development time was taken up with RRR, at the detriment of say a new aircraft or map. The realism (immersion) argument falls fairly flat to be honest. 2 minutes of imagining your aircraft being RRRed with a text messages saying "all done" is not much different from de-spawning, while you imagine you are adjusting the seat straps while saying "hurry up chaps, we have a war to win" as you spawn back into your aircraft.

 

It takes 5 minutes just to start the blooming thing! 

 

 

  

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Then again I suppose that there were probably some people that used to also play Silent Hunter in real time.

 

Yep. :)

 

Our 17. Flottille clocked some 4700 hrs of real-time multiplayer U-boat action. The longest single session I ever did was 9 days. But, yeah... it was a bit crazy. :wacko:

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I don't see a problem with it if that's what people want and it's an optional feature. 

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Not going to belabor the realism / immersive arguement here. There are points for and against, and that's all fine and dandy.

 

I will say, though, a place the RR feature could shine is in co-ops as a mechanism to extend the hosted session. Since coops are a closed session server feature, with a limited number is seats, and once you end flight your time in the mission is done. Employing RR could be a way to have pilots rearm for another go at a particularly tough target without the mission host having to stop and restart the co-op from scratch.

 

Just another two-pence from a fellow combat flight SIM junkie.

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yes why not have another. What other purpose does the forums have? The point is to have a discussion about the game that we enjoy playing

Is that why I was told to keep my objections to this idea to myself?

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What people miss to see is that this isnt about RR being immersive but giving players reasons for taxiing their aircraft back after landing instead of waiting on the runway. That's what makes it "immersive".

 

We as a squadrom always practise group landings, taxiing in fornation to the parking slot and line up in a row to end our sorty. Unfortunately these days everybody needs powerups or some other benefit for doing so else it's "silly".

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What people miss to see is that this isnt about RR being immersive but giving players reasons for taxiing their aircraft back after landing instead of waiting on the runway. That's what makes it "immersive".

 

Who waits on the runway? I land, exit, and respawn. I don’t see rr as the slightest bit immersive. I see it as a chance for some idiot who is vulching the field to end my kill streak.

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Is that why I was told to keep my objections to this idea to myself?

 

Who waits on the runway? I land, exit, and respawn. I don’t see rr as the slightest bit immersive. I see it as a chance for some idiot who is vulching the field to end my kill streak.

 

We get it. We heard you. You don't want this feature, that's fine. Can't you let the people that do like the idea discuss it without jumping in to shoot everything down every other post? Christ...

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We get it. We heard you. You don't want this feature, that's fine. Can't you let the people that do like the idea discuss it without jumping in to shoot everything down every other post? Christ...

I was told we were supposed to “discuss” things on the forum. Maybe circle jerk is more appropriate description of what is wanted?

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-snip-

 

I was told we were supposed to “discuss” things on the forum. Maybe circle jerk is more appropriate description of what is wanted?

 

Sorry, Gamber... BSR is spot on with this one.

Who waits on the runway? I land, exit, and respawn. I don’t see rr as the slightest bit immersive. I see it as a chance for some idiot who is vulching the field to end my kill streak.

 

Aside from that, "spawning out" and "spawning in" to a loaded/fueled aircraft waiting at the field is no more/less immersive but is arguably more historical than a ghost crew reloading the plane in 2 minutes.

Edited by Space_Ghost

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Aside from that, "spawning out" and "spawning in" to a loaded/fueled aircraft waiting at the field is no more/less immersive and arguably more historical than a ghost crew reloading the plane in 2 minutes.

Exactly. Someone posted examples of pilots landing and jumping right into aircraft that were ready to go. That makes a lot more sense than risking a pilot’s life by pumping fuel into a hot aircraft while he sits there waiting.

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It's times like this I am glad I still only fly single player bwaha!

;) 

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Mission can contain several objectives/tasks and that can be achieved only with RRR providing unique experience we don't have now.

 

Example;

(map Kuban)

-escort transport planes providing cover from Maykop over the mountain range all the way to the Adler.

-land at Adler for refuel and rearm and proceed along the coast patroling for enemy activity representing danger to our ships

-land at Agoy and RRR (mount bombs) and attack convoy spotted 20km form Beregovka.

 

Ww2 pilot sometime have a busy day!

Also when you land you can take a break in between tasks since objectives/AI are triggered by player reaching designated area.

Edited by EAF_Ribbon
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Maybe circle jerk is more appropriate description of what is wanted?

I almost choked with the beer I'm treating myself with in garage. Jolly good,sir :D

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If the real goal is to get players to rtb and taxi like good pilots (i believe that this IS the goal), Then while RR is one possible solution, perhaps there are others that are already achievable with the mission making capabilities we have now. I apologize for being completely inexperienced with the mission editor myself, but is it possible to only award points if the pilot despawns in a certain area? or have a respawn waiting period if you don't bring your plane back to the base? if there was a 5-10 min cooldown for losing your plane, would the server empty? If WOL did this would the lack of a populated alternative get players to fall in line? So many questions to ponder.

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If the goal is to get people to rtb, then give them 0 points if they are killed or captured. If that does not work, then nothing will.

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I was told we were supposed to “discuss” things on the forum. Maybe circle jerk is more appropriate description of what is wanted?

 

You are literally a circle jerk of one.

 

Whatever, it's not like threads like this will actually sway the devs either way, so I'm not going to argue with you.

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You are literally a circle jerk of one.

You might want to look up the definitions for “circle jerk” and “literally”.

 

Just don’t do it while you are at work.

Edited by BraveSirRobin

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@Capt_cool

I don't think that is the aim, although some see it as a possible benefit.

 

The aim is to provide a continuous view of the gaming world across multiple sorties in either MP or SP.

 

Yeah. Thinking about more, and I agree with you. My previous line of thinking ignored single player entirely. I think a good mission maker could make excellent use of RR in single player.

Edited by Cpt_Cool

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Adding a DCS-style system is the way to go. If you want to switch planes then that's a time to despawn.

 

There is so much that can be added this way, not just from an immersive perspective but in terms of gameplay for both single- and multiplayer.

 

Singleplayer pilots can land, rearm and get back into the fight without having to end the mission and restart from scratch, which especially for the upcoming career mode could add more to a sortie. Fail to hit all targets? Navigate home, rearm and go back without having to have the mission marked as a partial success. Or if it is vital that a target be hit, keep going back as you probably would IRL.

Also, allows escort missions to be flown and then retask for ground support or intercept, to allow adapting to changing circumstances. Especially in missions using triggers with multiple elements at once, which means now there's a choice of which tasks to prioritise at the expense of others.

 

And for multiplayer, all the airfields on the map are present, so there could be a few that are marked to friendlies and can rearm/refuel. So during a session you can stop off closer to the action, increasing your time in station or your usefulness to the team but increasing the chance you might get caught and vulched or bounced at a lower alt.

In addition, these forward points wouldn't be marked on a map to enemies, so enemies could carry out recon missions to search for an airfield with vehicles on the ground, or look out to see if anything is on the runway or taking off/landing, and attack the field to knock it out as another way to interdict enemy activities.

Combine this with a convoy of ground vehicles, or transport aircraft who could drive/fly to inactive airfields to set up refuelling points for aircraft and the scene is set for very dynamic, persistent 'mini-campaigns' on a tactical level, all within the space of an average 2hr MP round on WoL.

 

Not to mention giving a purpose to transport aircraft, especially once the Li-2 finally gets here.

Fly somewhere, drop cargo, 'rearm' to fill up with more cargo, fly out, etc. Mission designers can add a scoring system and at a stroke we've made transport aircraft fully functional and dramatically multiplied the depth and scope of operations.

 

 

My view is always to add more options.

R/R adds so many more options, and allows creative people access to tools to expand the possibilities in all sorts of ways.

I get that people might not want dev time spent on this at the expense of more aircraft or maps etc, but arguing against something that can provide a load more options just because (they think) they'd never use it themselves, is very shortsighted.

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Aside from that, "spawning out" and "spawning in" to a loaded/fueled aircraft waiting at the field is no more/less immersive but is arguably more historical than a ghost crew reloading the plane in 2 minutes.

 
 
True
 
I can even shoot down my own transport example since transports were typically loaded a long distance from their final destination.
Well outside of typical player tolerance (not to mention map size)
Even for SP it would be an unusual "special" mission.
 
The Po-2 would be a legit, constant use of this functionality though - we're just back to the ghost crews.
I completely understand why some would find it more rewarding to land and take off again rather than exit the sim
for a moment.
 
Simple editor logic changes/additions seem to take quite a longer than I always imagine they would - much simpler things than the functionality we're discussing here are off the table
due to resource limitations.
It's clear from using the editor and seeing the "re-arm" check box in the "Command Behavior" MCU that this functionality was planned at one time and dropped, likely due to the time it would take
to implement. The check boxes are right there though...

post-23599-0-40944800-1509120310_thumb.jpg

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@Capt_cool

I don't think that is the aim, although some see it as a possible benefit.

 

The aim is to provide a continuous view of the gaming world across multiple sorties in either MP or SP.

Yes this ^^

 

The rest is just .....

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You might want to look up the definitions for “circle jerk” and “literally”.

 

Just don’t do it while you are at work.

 

Googled, second definition: "used for emphasis or to express strong feeling while not being literally true."

 

It's 2017- facts don't matter, news is fake, and literally literally means figuratively  :lol: 

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There is obviously a lot of people that want this feature. and if it brings enjoyment to players then there is no reason we shouldn't have it.

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There is obviously a lot of people that want this feature. and if it brings enjoyment to players then there is no reason we shouldn't have it.

You mean, other than the development time that would be better spent on other things, right?

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There is obviously a lot of people that want this feature. and if it brings enjoyment to players then there is no reason we shouldn't have it.

 

It takes money and time - so there's one reason.

Everything they're working on is in the "a lot of people want it" category.

Edited by Gambit21

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You might want to look up the definitions for “circle jerk” and “literally”.

 

Just don’t do it while you are at work.

 

I think you're being overly cautious here.  If it's a circle jerk and it's going on at work I have to assume management is all in.  In those circumstances you've successfully taken 'edgy' and turned it into team building.

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You mean, other than the development time that would be better spent on other things, right?

Devs and Jason are not stupid, they know their priorities and they do suprise us every update with cool new little improvements/features alonside big ones so if many ppl want this feature why shouldn't they express it!

Maybe one day we'll get it, btw if it can be set by mission makers than nor time or funds will cost development.

It's not all in combat features, alongside combat ww2 flight simming is also a FLIGHT SIMMING that covers all stages of flight.

Don't be afraid and greedy, game is doing fine and we will all get nice new things we are looking forward.

We are all entitled to express our opinions so no need to fight against it!

I respect your opinion even it is opposite of mine.

S!

Edited by EAF_Ribbon

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Devs and Jason are not stupid, they know their priorities and they do suprise us every update with cool new little improvements/features alonside big ones so if many ppl want this feature why shouldn't they express it!

S!

They have expressed it. Repeatedly. Those of us who think it’s a waste of development time also get to express our opinions.

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