Midway Discussion

[Field-Ops]

I wonder if in the future a server can differentiate between pilots and gunners and have flexible server limits accordingly. What I mean is have a server with say, 84 pilots and on top of that have another 24 or so slots reserved for gunners or spectators. Things that wont necessarily influence the motion of an aircraft or tank and therefore theoretically lower server stress while achieving a higher server limit. 

[ElPerk]

The decision has been made, and it's pointless to speculate about the future which no one can foresee. See you all one year later here!

I'd say it's completely within reason to speculate about future, since we have some ideas about what went down in the past.

 

 

[sniperton]

The Pacific proved to be a bigger task and taking more time to develop than what could have been funded from sold copies given the given player base. BoBo with its fully researched single-seaters and no ships and naval techs is certainly feasible in the timespan when funding is secured. BoBo is an emergency plan, Jason really wanted the Pacific, otherwise he would not have signed the agreement with Team Fusion which now excludes the Med as a resource-lighter alternative to the Pacific. Just speculation, but I believe it's as simple as that.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The Pacific proved to be a bigger task and taking more time to develop than what could have been funded from sold copies given the given player base. BoBo with its fully researched single-seaters and no ships and naval techs is certainly feasible in the timespan when funding is secured. BoBo is an emergency plan, Jason really wanted the Pacific, otherwise he would not have signed the agreement with Team Fusion which now excludes the Med as a resource-lighter alternative to the Pacific. Just speculation, but I believe it's as simple as that.

 

I think you are reaching a bit. The Pacific was funded and could have proceeded. It was not a matter of money only time and resources. BoBp is not an emergency plan, it is a backup plan. Every business should have one. We could have moved forward with Pacific and had no content for eighteen months or we can move forward with BoBp AND the Pacific and have continuous development/content in the meantime.

[sniperton]

I said it was just speculation, but thanks for the first-hand info. I don't want to be picky, but are you seriously claiming that BoBp will free up development resources that could and would be turned into some background work on the Pacific?

Edited November 22, 2017 by sniperton

[ElPerk]

Yeah I mean... Jason et al. consistently speak of being resource and manpower limited. Bodenplatte provides a cash injection, but there's no way they can really dedicate considerable resources to PTO while proceeding with other products. I'm going to say Bodenplatte was a strategic call to get more revenue, while keeping the PTO on very low background work and seeing how income proceeds with announecd new features.

I think you are reaching a bit. The Pacific was funded and could have proceeded. It was not a matter of money only time and resources. BoBp is not an emergency plan, it is a backup plan. Every business should have one. We could have moved forward with Pacific and had no content for eighteen months or we can move forward with BoBp AND the Pacific and have continuous development/content in the meantime.

 

Time and money are the same thing when you're talking about work hours and human resources.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

PTO is on a low burner but between Jason doing leg work and the possibility of third party involvement it will continue to move forward.

 

Parallel development is on going and will continue to ramp up as personnel/resources are brought aboard. The main thing is finding the RIGHT staff - they have to be both skilled in the digital stuff but also technical in flight stuff. It's a rare combination these days and is one of Jason's biggest challenges for the DEV team.

 

The biggest step is the gathering and interpreting of original Japanese documents which can be done completely independently of BoBp. Jason is planning a trip to Japan at some point to locate sources and possibly a document interpreter. The second step is ship modeling and tech (both) which may be done in-house or farmed out. All of this is in the announcements and live stream.  You just have to dig for it a bit.

 

The last step, production, will probably start when we are done with the ETO branch - whether that is just BoBp or a couple of entries like we got in the East. This last part is my speculation.

Edited November 22, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[ElPerk]

PTO is on a low burner but between Jason doing leg work and the possibility of third party involvement it will continue to move forward.

 

Parallel development is on going and will continue to ramp up as personnel/resources are brought aboard. The main thing is finding the RIGHT staff - they have to be both skilled in the digital stuff but also technical in flight stuff. It's a rare combination these days and is one of Jason's biggest challenges for the DEV team.

 

The biggest step is the gathering and interpreting of original Japanese documents which can be done completely independently of BoBp. Jason is planning a trip to Japan at some point to locate sources and possibly a document interpreter. The second step is ship modeling and tech (both) which may be done in-house or farmed out. All of this is in the announcements and live stream.  You just have to dig for it a bit.

 

The last step, production, will probably start when we are done with the ETO branch - whether that is just BoBp or a couple of entries like we got in the East. This last part is my speculation.

All right then. I just feel like... well nevermind.

Edited November 22, 2017 by ElPerk

[Gambit21]

Murf has it right.

[Lusekofte]

Murf has it right.

Is this info from TS conference? Money was a issue in a post Jason wrote less than a week ago. He talked about a kickstarter in order to get JApanese documents translated.

Anyway in my case I am willing to pay the price whatever it will be. 69 $ for a game is cheap by all standards, 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Is this info from TS conference? Money was a issue in a post Jason wrote less than a week ago. He talked about a kickstarter in order to get JApanese documents translated.

Anyway in my case I am willing to pay the price whatever it will be. 69 $ for a game is cheap by all standards, 

 

I don't think it's a matter of money for the project as a whole, I think he was referring to the cost of paying somebody to translate thousands of documents.

 

Think research/translation budget vs. development budget.

[Lusekofte]

Yeah, I think you are right. Do we have any Japanese members here? 

IT is a monumental undertaking, I guess we all under-estimated this project a little bit...

[Gambit21]

Jason made a course correction and placed an additional product between BoK and PTO while research is gathered and parsed. It's really that simple. That's not to say the research is simple - far from.

 

When PTO is announced again it may look the same...or not. In any case the Zeke and Wildcat will arrive - just fashionably late.

[DD_Crash]

Yeah, I think you are right. Do we have any Japanese members here? 

IT is a monumental undertaking, I guess we all under-estimated this project a little bit...

FlatSpinMan used to post and he lives in Japan

[Lusekofte]

He is one of the moderators here, long time since I have seen him

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

It's not about fluent day to day speaker. I can make good conversations in Japanese as well but to read technical documents you need a person familiar with this topic. Also, Japanese pre-war was different and involved a use of older symbols. But what i do not understand is little information about translations made by Allies during the war. U.S. specialists dedicated months to this hard work and particularly after fall of Saipan, Tinian and Guam a massive amount of documents was collected. This documents were translated and later put into archives, which removes the need to translate them again.

For example those are bits of A6M5 maintenance manual that was translated during the war:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mJKfGytUMNYTXSag5P1T77ZoHOPcjQd2?usp=sharing

This is D3A2 manual:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ke-zr9bup5tT74HaogNcWuIEMkXARVn4?usp=sharing

Original documents are obviously in better quality but they indeed require translation work.  

[EAF_51_FOX]

Don't be useful for Jason and his team to pick up technical references about Pacific AC from old glorious OLEG MADDOX IL2 simulator? this will save ALOT of stuff.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Nnnnnnoooooooo!!!!!

[Gambit21]

Don't be useful for Jason and his team to pick up technical references about Pacific AC from old glorious OLEG MADDOX IL2 simulator? this will save ALOT of stuff.

 

Not so much

[sniperton]

Let it be, and fingers crossed.

 

(BTW, nothing personal, I can fully and clearly understand what Hiromachi says, but sometimes I have problems in decoding what HerrMurf says. Please consider that some of us are not native English speakers. So may I ask for using international English here? Not that I don't want to learn, but it would be easier to make us properly understand. Nothing personal, I repeat, and the names I mentioned are just examples for you to grasp what I mean.)

[taly01]

Arrggh.... 3 new titles and none related at all to Pacific as "promised".  Not even a teaser title?  Only A6M2 and F4F-4 were needed in high fidelity to sell.

Thousands of documents needed to be translated !?!   A billionity-gigaplex-millionity times exaggerated i think.  

Edited November 23, 2017 by taly01

[Gambit21]

Let it be, and fingers crossed.

 

(BTW, nothing personal, I can fully and clearly understand what Hiromachi says, but sometimes I have problems in decoding what HerrMurf says. Please consider that some of us are not native English speakers. So may I ask for using international English here? Not that I don't want to learn, but it would be easier to make us properly understand. Nothing personal, I repeat, and the names I mentioned are just examples for you to grasp what I mean.)

WTF is international English?

[Field-Ops]

A little OT here but I'll just say that the regulars that are foreign on this forum have such good english I didnt know it was not their primary language. So good job guys.

[Gambit21]

A little OT here but I'll just say that the regulars that are foreign on this forum have such good english I didnt know it was not their primary language. So good job guys.

This - and there are many examples.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

WTF is international English?

Definitely not Australian

Perhaps its close to gibberish.

[DD_Crash]

I am sure that if they did a best guess at the flight model and engine performance, it would be like the Fw 190 bar all over again. Not to mention the 50 Cals

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Sorry, I’m an amateur writer and wordsmith. Sometimes I can be a little wordy. Next Benevolent Society giveaway may include a dictionary and thesaurus.

 

;)

[sniperton]

Don't take it personal, I'm very well aware how difficult it is to keep in mind that the people you talk to may live on a different continent and may not always have access to an urban dictionary.

 

(Just imagine how unsecure you'd feel with your Hochdeutsch on a German forum populated mostly by self-forgetting Bavarians. )

Edited November 23, 2017 by sniperton

[Gambit21]

I would never guess that you're not a native English speaker.

[sniperton]

That's the trap, as fluent English doesn't guarentee that there's no some white noise in communication due to the different background of the individual speakers. But now back to topic

 

There's no point making anything in preparation if it had to be binned because documents can't be translated. Better to make something you can sell in the mean time?

I guess we're buying time now. I'm not enthusiastic about late-war scenarios, and if so, I would have rather opted for Sicily/Italy instead, but the majority seems to be happy with BoBp and its planeset, so it was far not a bad decision after all. I hope the delay will turn out to be to the advantage of the Pacific when it finally comes to it.

Edited November 24, 2017 by sniperton

[VeryOldMan]

 

 

Time and money are the same thing when you're talking about work hours and human resources.

Not on software development. It is the classic  mistake of management on that area.  You have 4 developers..  you double the number of developers you do not produce the end result in half the time..  you get about 20% reduction of time at the end.... you double yet again... and you get some 15% more reduction only.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

A very recent video in 4k with A6M3 model 22 that was not so long ago restored in Japan:

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

On my phone atm (old eyes/small screen). What are the white fuselage panels on either side of the national markings?

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

You mean on the left and right of rising sun on fuselage ? Those look like small flags with something written inside but I cant guess what it may be. 

[taly01]

However again it may be easier for them to Model the Ships and an open Ocean Map than it would be to Model the Solomon's and No ships to start with.

 

Yes this is THE question,   Carriers with working air operations and ships with proper damage models (destructible AAA mounts at least) is a big deal to do, and old il2:1946 had very basic ship damage models.  

 

Does 1C/777 il-2 still use underlying il2 1946 game code, at least it would save some time?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

No to game code. Completely different and incompatible engines.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

It's also about different fleet tactics and formations. For instance U.S. fleet preferred less evasive actions but in tighter formation to create a self supporting group ... which in 1942 didn't really work that well. Japanese Navy kept more separation between each individual ship giving more room for them to carry every necessary maneuver to throw off that dive-bombers or torpedo-plans aim. 

And there are also deck operations ... 

 

From todays Planes of Fame show:

 

 

 

 

 

Credit goes to Planes of Fame facebook.

Edited December 2, 2017 by =LD=Hiromachi

[BRADYS555]

Are They going to model the invasion force or just KB?

 

Because it might be fun if they modeled Hosho and Zuiho , which would enable them to arguably add  the A5M

 

Ryujo, however would be my favorite Light Carrier for them model , I know she was not at Midway but she really got around:

 

http://www.combinedfleet.com/ryujo.htm

[busdriver]

It's also about different fleet tactics and formations. For instance U.S. fleet preferred less evasive actions but in tighter formation to create a self supporting group ... which in 1942 didn't really work that well. Japanese Navy kept more separation between each individual ship giving more room for them to carry every necessary maneuver to throw off that dive-bombers or torpedo-plans aim. 

And there are also deck operations ... 

 

Just over a third of the way through Clark Reynolds hefty The Fast Carriers: The Forging of an Air Navy which provides some insight into battleship (non-aviator) Fleet Admirals' opposition to multi-carrier task groups. I'm finding this a great read, like Lundstrom's work. Finished Thomas Cleaver's Pacific Thunder last week.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Thanks for those photos Hiromachi.

 

The A6M is truly a beautiful aircraft, even if it isn't my favorite Imperial Japanese single seater, it is the epitome of what a radial engined fighter should look like.