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There were other engagements besides Carrier vs Carrier battles.  The US raided many Japanese air fields prior to Coral Sea.  CAP units on both sides intercepted long range scout planes regularly. Marine Air units were active in Wake, Midway, Guadalcanal, they often fought when the carriers were absent.  There are at least 6 raids carried out by US forces prior to Coral Sea.

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Famous last word . Last Letter from Kamikaze pilot flight captain Ryōji Uehara to his paerents
 
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amikaze pilot Ryōji Uehara on the wing and next to the tail of a Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien. He was a member of the 56th Shinmu squadron (第56振武隊) of the IJA Air Corps when he carried out his final mission against the US carrier fleet near Kadena, Okinawa Prefecture on 11 May 1945. He was 22 years old. His letter, written to his parents the night before his final mission, was published after the war and it is still regarded as a masterpiece of wartime literary works in Japan.
 

 

The Last Letter
I feel deeply honoured and privileged to have been chosen to become a member of the Army’s “Special Assault Unit,” which embodies the glory of Japan. Having read logic and philosophy through my somewhat extended student life, I am sure that, based upon the idea of reason, triumph of liberty is inevitable to me, although I might sound like a liberalist. As stated by Croce in Italy, it is a universal truth that it is absolutely impossible to exterminate freedom, which is a fundamental human nature, and it will eventually win even though it seems to be temporarily oppressed.
 
It is a clear fact that authoritarian and totalitarian regimes may sporadically prosper, but they ultimately will perish. We can see the truth of that in the Axis governments. As manifested by the defeat of Italy under Fascism, not to mention Germany under Nazism, authoritarian governments are disappearing one after the other, crumbling like buildings without a foundation.
 
I believe that the universality of truth will eternally and permanently prove the greatness of liberty as is now being verified by reality and just as history has shown in the past. I will be more than delighted to find that my belief has been proven right even though that turns out to be a disaster for our nation. The current struggle, whatever it is, stems from ideology; and the result of a struggle can readily be predicted by the belief systems upon which the struggle is fought.
 
The ambition of making my beloved Japan become as mighty an empire as Great Britain has faded away. If the leading positions in Japan had been held by those who truly love Japan, my country would not have been driven into the situation it faces today. I have been dreaming of the Japanese people proud of themselves no matter where one may be in the world.
 
What a friend of mine once said is true: a pilot of the Special Assault Unit is merely a machine. He just steers the apparatus. He is only a molecule within a magnet that sticks fast to an enemy aircraft carrier, possessing neither personality nor emotions.
 
If one thinks about it rationally, this act is incomprehensible and, to try to put it in a plain expression, these pilots are, as they say, simply suicidal. Since I am nothing more than a machine, I have no right to put my case forward. However, I only wish that the Japan that I dearly love will someday be made truly great by my fellow citizens.
 
In such an emotional state, my death may probably lead to nothing. Nonetheless, as I stated at the outset, I feel very honoured to have been chosen to be a member of the Special Assault Unit. It is true that, once inside an aircraft, I am mere hardware, but once disembarked, I do have emotions and passion as I am also a human. When the woman for whom I cared so dearly passed away, I emotionally died with her. The idea that she waits for me in Heaven, where we will be reunited, makes death not particularly frightening for me, since it happens only on my way to Heaven.
 
Tomorrow is the day of the assault. My idea is too highly extreme to be made public, but I just wanted to express the true feelings inside me, so please forgive me for my disoriented thoughts. Another liberalist will depart from this earth tomorrow. Although he may appear forlorn, he is in fact very content.
 
Once again, please forgive my selfish ranting.
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15 missions total from February to October? 

e02e5ffb5f980cd8262cf7f0ae00a4a9_press-x

 

Let's see what we have in scenario posted by 64s Tomio -

 

Wake Island Raid - 1 day of action (24. February 1942)

Coral Sea - 2 days (7. - 8. May 1942) * you need Lousiade Archipelago for this one. There were air strikes on previous days, sure, but you need Guadalcanal (well, at least Tulagi) for them.

Midway - 2 days (4. - 5. June 1942)

Solomon Sea - 2 days (24. - 25. August 1942)

Santa Cruz - 1 day (26. August 1942)

 

8 days of action. How many missions in pilot career can you squeeze from 8 days? 40? 60? 80? 100?

 

 

There were other engagements besides Carrier vs Carrier battles. The US raided many Japanese air fields prior to Coral Sea. CAP units on both sides intercepted long range scout planes regularly. Marine Air units were active in Wake, Midway, Guadalcanal, they often fought when the carriers were absent. There are at least 6 raids carried out by US forces prior to Coral Sea.

 

You are absolutely right, but we were talking about situation when we get only map of Midway (+ Wake, because why not). How can you simulate raids on Marshall Islands, Gilbert Islands, New Guinea, Tulagi or Rabaul (not executed, I know) if you don't have this places on map? And USMC? Without Guadalcanal, all you can have in 1942 is Wake and Midway.

 

-------------------------

It looks like I do not like the Pacific, i know. But just the opposite, i LOVE Pacific, I'm just skeptical about Midway. However, I still believe that I will be very pleasantly surprised by devs.

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8 days of action. How many missions in pilot career can you squeeze from 8 days? 40? 60? 80? 100?

Yes, it is limited. But you can at least multiply that by 3 to give the story of a fighter pilot, dive bomber pilot and torpedo plane pilot. How many missions can be designed precisely ? Will see. 

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You can have many years of fun with it if you look at the old IL 2 history, but I guess migrating to Pasific will give us New Guinea if the sales permit. It is a capitalistic reason for expansion not only ideological 

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15 missions total from February to October? 

e02e5ffb5f980cd8262cf7f0ae00a4a9_press-x

 

Have you something better to suggest considering we won't get more than Midway + Wake (not even sure) in 2018 ?

 

There can be more missions with some recon missions and there was a lot !!!

Edited by 64sTomio

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Have you something better to suggest considering we won't get more than Midway + Wake (not even sure) in 2018 ?

 

There can be more missions with some recon missions and there was a lot !!!

 

You misinterpret what I said. I'm saying I doubt it would be limited to 15 days of action because as you said there are many more missions like recon that can be included. 

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I have a theory on what we might see. Or, a suggestion on what the devs might do for the Pacific.

 

We've already seen a third-party team create a map for BoS, and we've also been told that there is another third-party team working on new aircraft for BoK.

 

What I'd hope for is for the main team to work on Midway and give us a working release, core plane set as well as carriers, other ships, navigation and full functionality for each of these elements.

 

Then they hand over to third-party teams who can create extra maps and the aircraft to populate them, which allows for more scope and extra battles beyond what we get in the core game.

Another poster elsewhere described the process of releasing collector planes as 'horizontal expansion', and this would seem to be the perfect place for it.

'Midway' really is more like 'Mid-war Pacific carriers', and we get maps and planes to give us Wake Island, Pearl Harbour, Solomons, Bismarck Sea to keep us occupied.

 

In the meantime the main dev team are building the next big release, New Guinea or Guadalcanal or Burma or something.

And once that's released, third-parties flesh it out while the main team work on the next one, and so on.

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There can be more missions with some recon missions and there was a lot !!!

 

 

I'm saying I doubt it would be limited to 15 days of action because as you said there are many more missions like recon that can be included.

 

 

You can have dozens of missions of course, CAP, recon, ASW . However, if you really want historical campaign, you simply can not get in contact with the enemy in most of these missions.

Let's say that date is 5th April 1942 - your mission for today is CAP. Before you take-off, you already know that nothing will happen in this mission. Next day - your mission is recon and you again already know that nothing will happen in this mission, no contact, nothing. Sounds like lot of fun, isn't it?

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You can have dozens of missions of course, CAP, recon, ASW . However, if you really want historical campaign, you simply can not get in contact with the enemy in most of these missions.

Let's say that date is 5th April 1942 - your mission for today is CAP. Before you take-off, you already know that nothing will happen in this mission. Next day - your mission is recon and you again already know that nothing will happen in this mission, no contact, nothing. Sounds like lot of fun, isn't it?

 

This is where the alternate, or "what if" scenarios (of which there are quite a few) will come in...as I've typed now a dozen times already.

Yes the historical campaigns while of value, will not hold any surprises.

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Well I do not know, All tho I am amazed how we manage to achieve historical results all over the board when it comes to events in BOS and COD , I think many surprises can come in all campaigns historical and non historical.

However this negative approach towards Midway may very well tip the balance to keep going on eastern front instead. Does anyone believe they would change to North Africa if we are not going Pacific? 

I think Midway is the start of a expantion of this area , I think we will be one step closer to New Guinea , with planes like the Beufighter, Hurricane , KI 43 , Sally´s and variants of A 20 . Maybe even a B 25.

 I think evolvement on this side of WW2 will bring in a lot of new people sitting on the fence, these people will also fly Kuban, because once you are in you listen to what other people say, then we will have new planes. I think this path is chance of growth 

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I don't think there's a "negative approach towards Midway". Midway is great as an appetizer, but it doesn't make up a full lunch unless it is combined with another map where largely the same planes, ships and vehicles can be used in a versatile way for longer campaigns. The game needs to be attractive for one full year so that we're entertained until we can get the next release. ;)

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Well I see people fly the same mission on the same map for years already, it is nothing new in that regard , in my point of view BOS series is appetizers with its short 2 hours missions . That is what we do

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in my point of view BOS series is appetizers with its short 2 hours missions . That is what we do

 

You're not an ordinary guy, you know? :biggrin::salute: 

I wish I had time for 2+ hours missions...

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However this negative approach towards Midway may very well tip the balance to keep going on eastern front instead.

 

 

I don't think so. We already know that next will be Pacific (Battle of Midway) and future of the BoX series will depend on whether it will be a success or not. Few concerned (not negative, concerned) posts on forum from me or anyone else will not change plans developers have, don't worry.

 

 

The game needs to be attractive for one full year so that we're entertained until we can get the next release.

 

 

Exactly. And at this point (4th installment in BoX), it must be good (or rather mature). No excuses, no someday, maybe or in future.

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Exactly. And at this point (4th installment in BoX), it must be good (or rather mature). No excuses, no someday, maybe or in future.

I have disagreed with many of your assessments on the Midway venture but fully agree on this particular point. It must be done well and be mature on release. EA will be piecemealed as usual but the 'release' needs to be fully formed upon arrival this time. Kuban will be more of a precursor than the first two titles were.

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It must be done well and be mature on release.

^^ That. This is my main concern. Midway must be perfect, polished, overwhelming, and astonishing. This is why I suggested elsewhere that carriers and carrier warfare should come last, when everything else is prepared and made and tested and fine. First we need torp tech, then naval planes, then capital ships, then fleet AI, then optimization for multiple battle stations, then naval crew, and when everything is put together there can come the carriers as well.

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You are absolutely right, but we were talking about situation when we get only map of Midway (+ Wake, because why not). How can you simulate raids on Marshall Islands, Gilbert Islands, New Guinea, Tulagi or Rabaul (not executed, I know) if you don't have this places on map? And USMC? Without Guadalcanal, all you can have in 1942 is Wake and Midway.

 

Well, I think the Midway map will only be part of it.  I assume that there is a team building maps for the games, they took about 6 months to produce the Kuban map, which is pretty big.  How long will it take them to make Midway?   They will have plenty of time given the normal six months to produce all of the small islands, and maybe Guadalcanal.  I don't think we will get just one map. 

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Famous last word . Last Letter from Kamikaze pilot flight captain Ryōji Uehara to his paerents
...

 

That was a very good read, emotional and upsetting though.

Thanx for sharing..

/B

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Well, I think the Midway map will only be part of it.  I assume that there is a team building maps for the games, they took about 6 months to produce the Kuban map, which is pretty big.  How long will it take them to make Midway?   They will have plenty of time given the normal six months to produce all of the small islands, and maybe Guadalcanal.  I don't think we will get just one map. 

I'd guess the resources normally spent on map production will be spent on producing other assets, such as the 5 (or six) different carrier types which are definitely a handful.

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Personally,  I would be more than happy to pay full price for a new Pacific expansion that only has carriers as long as the carriers are done well and there is a promise of a new map with some land included coming along later, especially if the carriers bring something entirely new like working elevators or mannable AA.   I know that building usable carriers is a huge job and I don't think a Coral Sea type scenario will be any more restrictive than the current maps where some popular servers have you pretty much fly from the same airfields hitting the same targets month after month.  If you want to mix things up,  the Kuban map would make a great stand-in for New Guinea :-)    I wonder how hard it is for 1C to just take the Kuban map and alter the shape and topology?  Has the hard work already been done or is it just the same as starting from scratch?

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex

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Late to the party but this is about Midway. Nothing else.

 

The planeset should be historical. It is known and should be without what-ifs. Catalina? Of course. GM4? Of course not. F4 Corsair? Of course not. Etc., etc..

 

Now, if it was to be 'Pacific' it would blow the whole thing wide open. But it isn't. It's Midway.

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We all hope this will be so successful that it gonna be New Guinea and many more maps, and we will eventually get all IJA , IJN, USAAF , USN and US marines planes during the war.

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"For most of the time carrier aviation is more challenging than flying in a spacecraft"

 

Astronaut James Lovell

 

 

Ergo IL2 before Star Citizen

Edited by SvAF/F19_Klunk
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Late to the party but this is about Midway. Nothing else.

 

The planeset should be historical. It is known and should be without what-ifs. Catalina? Of course. GM4? Of course not. F4 Corsair? Of course not. Etc., etc..

 

Now, if it was to be 'Pacific' it would blow the whole thing wide open. But it isn't. It's Midway.

Midway is of course the title but it is pretty unlikely to be the only landmass/map. Midway is one of the most recognizable names in the Pacific conflict. That is why it was chosen. Far more likely this release will be an early Pacific with at least a couple of maps. Shouldn’t be too complex to do a Pearl Harbor, Wake, Coral Sea and Midway scenario with mostly the same planeset.

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Midway is of course the title but it is pretty unlikely to be the only landmass/map. Midway is one of the most recognizable names in the Pacific conflict. That is why it was chosen. Far more likely this release will be an early Pacific with at least a couple of maps. Shouldn’t be too complex to do a Pearl Harbor, Wake, Coral Sea and Midway scenario with mostly the same planeset.

Pearl would be a huge undertaking and if the team really wants the map devs to work, that might very well be the focus of the map teams time. Personally I would be fine with just Midway, Wake, and Coral Sea. 3 maps? Thats much more than any other expansion has brought. I mean if they dont have to do multiple seasons then I can see it working out. My personal favorite would be the Aleutians over Pearl, because Pearl would be a single scenario and never to be visited again except for "What ifs" that make no sense given the extensive common knowledge of the attack.

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Aleutians would allow us to use the P-39, if I remember correctly?

 

It's been suggested before in this thread that the decision to call it 'Battle of Midway' is because of branding; it's a big, well-known battle and it tells you exactly what you'll get (Wildcats, Zeroes etc) and gives an idea of the time period involved.

But with any luck the actual plan is to include other maps and expand laterally into a mid-war Pacific naval experience.

 

I'd hope so anyway, and hope that the devs have been watching our discussions and suggestions and collecting feedback, and will realise that we'll need the extra maps or extra aircraft, or that the next step needs to be New Guinea or Burma rather than straight to Okinawa, if we even go there. We're not quite shareholders but we're funding the development so here's hoping our views get taken on board.

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Pearl would be a huge undertaking and if the team really wants the map devs to work, that might very well be the focus of the map teams time. Personally I would be fine with just Midway, Wake, and Coral Sea. 3 maps? Thats much more than any other expansion has brought. I mean if they dont have to do multiple seasons then I can see it working out. My personal favorite would be the Aleutians over Pearl, because Pearl would be a single scenario and never to be visited again except for "What ifs" that make no sense given the extensive common knowledge of the attack.

This becomes an issue if carriers are to be modeled with high accuracy. It's a pretty daunting list:

 

Midway:

US: Yorktown-class (well Wasp too but whatever)

Japan: Hiryu and Soryu (similar but different), Akagi, Kaga. Zuiho and Hosho did not play a part in historical scenario.

Coral sea:

US: Yorktown and Saratoga -classes

Japan: Shokaku-class

Aleutians:

Junyo

Ryujo

 

That makes a total of 9 or 11 unique aircraft carrier models. Since the ops in your setup circle around these, it sort of makes sense to model them relatively accurately - more so than accurate representation of some small Moscow area village. The maps themselves are mostly water.

 

 

Edited by ElPerk

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This becomes an issue if carriers are to be modeled with high accuracy. It's a pretty daunting list:

 

Midway:

US: Yorktown-class

Japan: Hiryu and Soryu (similar but different), Akagi, Kaga. Zuiho and Hosho did not play a part in historical scenario.

Coral sea:

US: Yorktown and Saratoga -classes

Japan: Shokaku-class

Aleutians:

Junyo

Ryujo

 

That makes a total of 9 or 11 unique aircraft carrier models. Since the ops in your setup circle around these, it sort of makes sense to model them relatively accurately - more so than accurate representation of some small Moscow area village. The maps themselves are mostly water.

 

 

I guarantee you will not be getting more than one or two carriers in the first iteration of the release. In fact, I'd be stunned if you get more than one per side intitally.

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I guarantee you will not be getting more than one or two carriers in the first iteration of the release. In fact, I'd be stunned if you get more than one per side intitally.

Depends on devs and their resources which I am not privy to. Carrier models for any game are not cheap to make, they're big and complicated. They're also quite different in many aspects, including hangar size, which may or may not effect gameplay, or maybe not! I wouldn't use the word "guarantee" but I completely understand if they wish to go for easier route. I just like ships and find the carriers the real interesting parties in those battles, so I am deffo biased :P

 

 

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I’ll stick with guarantee and put a ten spot behind it.

We shall see! I fear you are right!

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I guarantee you will not be getting more than one or two carriers in the first iteration of the release. In fact, I'd be stunned if you get more than one per side intitally.

Fair enough, I think. Carriers (and larger ships) are a huge extra added to what an ordinary BoX release generally offers (planes, maps and objects/vehicles). If we don't want Midway to cost two times more time and money, we should be content with a limited initial carrier/ship inventory. Another aspect of the issue is that such a limited inventory historically fits the Coral Sea or New Guinea significantly better than Midway.

I feel embarrassed to repeat myself so many times, but I seriously think that what we first need is a sort of Med placed in the Pacific, used as a testbed and an incubator for the second Pacific release: Midway proper.

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I would love to see a Med release, although I don't realistically expect to see one any time soon.

What I would be hopeful for though is enough 'dual-use' collector planes to be progressively released to allow creative mission designers to build a replica Mediterranean using existing maps and assets.

Wit the P-40, A-20, Mc.202 and Spitfire plus all the LW a/c, we have most of what we need already and adding a few others will expand the possibilities.

 

I'm also hoping to see a Seafire mod for the Spitfire... that plus the Martlet/Wildcat from Midway and a possible Avenger could combine with carriers to make for a solid start on a RN Fleet Air Arm set.

I'm aware that's optimistic though.

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I'm hoping by next Summer the pre-order starts for BoMY. I can't wait to dive bomb an IJN carrier with a 1600lb bomb from an SBD.

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I'm hoping by next Summer the pre-order starts for BoMY. I can't wait to dive bomb an IJN carrier with a 1600lb bomb from an SBD.

 

The SBD could take this bomb but from aircraft carrier, the loadout was limited to 1000lb...

At the beginning of the war, only the B5N was able to take a 800kg bomb from carrier (they used some at Pearl Harbor against battleships)

 

 

Only next summer ?? i expected fall of this year :/

Edited by 64sTomio

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Purely speculation but I’d expect the first aircraft to be either the Zero or Wildcat in May (or so), followed by the opposite number in June. With EA ramping up as we approach the end of next year. Ships are going to be an enormous undertaking. We may not see a twelve month cycle for this release. Fifteen to eighteen months seems realistic to get all of the tech up to speed. BUT they have certainly surprised me before. We shall see.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf

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In that case I rather wait more and get the Zero, Wildcat, Val, Dauntless, Kate, Devastator. And even if not relevant we got the P 40 and P 39 , Maybe a KI 43 

 

Like in old IL 2 it is possible to make a fake New Guinea or similar by the maps we have

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte

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