Midway Discussion

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I'd rather expect U.S. aircraft first, only then followed by Japanese. Reason for that is the fact that most of primary and secondary sources are in Japanese and may require some time to work with. 

[xvii-Dietrich]

I'd rather expect U.S. aircraft first, only then followed by Japanese. Reason for that is the fact that most of primary and secondary sources are in Japanese and may require some time to work with. 

 

 

On the one hand, you get a US aircraft and you can match it off against Luftwaffe aircraft.

 

On the other, you get some Japanese aircraft, and you can match them off against the existing P-39, P-40, A20 and Spit.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Doesn't change the fact that for American aircraft basic and even detailed sources for aircraft such as TBD, F4F, TBF, PBY or SBD are available. This airframes are known and famous, producing digital copies should not differ to what we have.

On the other hand you get Japanese aircraft which do not have such a rich pool of sources. There will be a need to find documentation, translate it and understand various features that differ from their western counterparts.

 

I am sure they can do it, but its just going to take more time so I presume first will come U.S. birds.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Yes and no. I expect the Zero to be one of the first two released in EA. There should be enough on that particular AC to justify it's inclusion pretty early. The others perhaps not. I'm still predicting Wildcat and Zero first. It makes sense from both a development and a financial standpoint.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I can tell you that while many technical drawings and general data on Zero are available in English, the documentation on similar level of detail to what was expected during fixes of 190 - factory drawings and maintenance manuals, systems documentation and not to even mention windtunnel tests and flight evaluation is only available in Japanese (if one can find it). I hope they can bring Zero as quick as possible, but having 5 years of experience in this kind of research I know where problems exist.  

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I'm guessing you've already sent the Devs a mountain of docs and links to get them started?

 

The difference in the 190 release vs the Zero will/can be that the Zero will be a work in progress and they can attach that caveat. Make the FM plausible and continue tweaking after release. Unlike the 190 which was stated through severeal iterations, 'It's fine, deal with it, nothing to see here!'

 

It was nearly the death of a sizeable portion of the community. I'm glad we are all in a better place now.

 

It's a different management and customer service model now. I think, as long as they clearly (and often) state the Zero is WIP, we can get a top notch digital model and a very good FM while they *ZERO IN on perfection. The community won't storm the castle with torches and pitchforks with that knowledge.

 

I really can't imagine not getting a Wildcat and Zero pretty early in the process. Nothing else will stir the average guy and fence sitter about the Pacific theater than those two icons.

 

*couldn't resist 

Edited November 6, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

I'm guessing you've already sent the Devs a mountain of docs and links to get them started?

I wish, but I cant get in touch with Jason either on PM or his Skype.  

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I'll PM you tonight. I might be able to help.

[ElPerk]

Well that happened.

[ESAflankercobra]

Has this project been canceled or paralyzed with the new Il2 GB announcement? In the official announcement they only speak of the Eastern and Western front but nothing of the Pacific

[AndyJWest]

Has this project been canceled or paralyzed with the new Il2 GB announcement? In the official announcement they only speak of the Eastern and Western front but nothing of the Pacific

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/32257-my-comments-delay-pto-development/

[ESAflankercobra]

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/32257-my-comments-delay-pto-development/

Thx !!!!!!

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

 

I know Jason wants to do it, and we all want him to do it, but he is also running a business.  The major market for this sim is Russia and Europe, and mostly they just don't care about the Pacific war at all, so he must go where the money is.

 

*SIGH*  

 

109s and P 51s and Spits are the future of prop combat sims as far as I can tell.

 

It's been done to death, over and over and over,  so boring it hurts.  I so wanted to fly this...

 

 

 

...but at my age and with the time frame it will now take, I probably won't see it happen...

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Oh good lord. I thought my 8 yo was a drama queen. They need time for research and to finish some of the technical aspects. It’s postponed a year (or three) for goodness sakes not DOA.

Edited November 18, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[LukeFF]

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by LukeFF

[BlitzPig_EL]

When you guys get to your mid 60s then we'll talk.

[Cloyd]

When you guys get to your mid 60s then we'll talk.

I know exactly how you feel, El. I'm 64 yo.

 

I have no interest in the late war, being a crap plane fan and an offline player. I guess my next best hope is for the Martlett in CloD for some pseudo-Pacific action.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I know exactly how you feel, El. I'm 64 yo.

 

 

Ditto.

[Lusekofte]

Oh good lord. I thought my 8 yo was a drama queen. They need time for research and to finish some of the technical aspects. It’s postponed a year (or three) for goodness sakes not DOA.

 

 

I think tis is a bit naive, They constantly insist on spend time on small maps and narrow time era . And this make me wonder. I would have agreed on you  before this announcement , but after , not so much. Anyway if they get more customers by this pack, what kind of customers is it? From WT community. Do they want Pacific? Do they want to go back to slower aircraft? Back in time? 

There will be a totally different balance in what people want if this pack succeed , and if it not , well we will not have pacific. It is no drama, it is only disappointment.

[Goanna1]

I so totally relate to your feelings, comments and future time frames.

BlitzPig and Cloyd, I too am in my mid 60's (63): and if this year is a future indicator I found sickness, injury and such things causing surprise stays in a hospital for a few weeks due to lingering and untreated pnuemonia  (held over for 6 mths) also due to not being as 'bullett proof' as I once thought myself to be.

I can't presuppose that to wait for 18-24 months for a computer game/sim to come to me is very soon, as I once would,  it might be all the time left to me here, in this realm as Thor succinctly describes our planet. How many of us at this age have heard of friends that have passed away super suddenly without any prior indicators?

I've been onboard with IL-2 since it came out 14 or so years ago and a wish of mine is to 'fly' aircraft such as Boomerangs, Beaufighters and Sea Fury's over the Papua/New Guinea map area in the resolution and DM/FM of this production's quality.

[BlitzPig_EL]

The one "Empire" naval aircraft I'd want to fly is the Firefly.  I've seen a real one fly, and it's an outstanding aircraft.

 

I hope that those of us that crave the Pacific, and the less than "uber" aircraft can have our day in the sun.

 

Jets are for kids.

[Archie]

Well I certainly hope you get your wish to fly the Pacific before too long guys. As we get older an extra year or two becomes a lot more important!

[Royal_Flight]

The one "Empire" naval aircraft I'd want to fly is the Firefly. I've seen a real one fly, and it's an outstanding aircraft.

 

I hope that those of us that crave the Pacific, and the less than "uber" aircraft can have our day in the sun.

 

Jets are for kids.

Amen to that. If I got a Firefly, or indeed any Fleet Air Arm aircraft I'd be happy.

I was hopeful that, after we'd gotten to the Pacific it might get more likely that I'd see the FAA represented.

 

And a great list of potential aircraft... Seafire LF mk III and mk XV for CAP, Firefly for surface strike, Swordfish and the absolute monster that is the Fairey Barracuda to drop bombs or torpedos and to hunt submarines.

 

Not to forget the US gear either. Martlet and Corsair fighters and Tarpon/Avenger torpedo bombers, all of which would have been in a PTO release anyway so I'd have at least had something.

 

I had also hoped that the Spitfire Vb that we had in BoK could have been modified into a Seafire Ib although that would have been very unlikely. I would have enjoyed the challenge of wrestling with the terrible downward visibility and trying to get that floaty, poor deck-handling nightmare down on to the wire on its fragile landing gear without smashing the prop blades up.

 

Maybe some day we'll get it. I enjoyed messing around with the Fairey Fulmar on '46 CUP a while back but I'm spoiled by the fidelity of BoX.

 

Edit: that's my long-winded way of saying I totally understand how you feel.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Royal_Flight

[TG-55Panthercules]

It's kinda funny - I was never very thrilled about the planned move to the PTO myself.  I would have preferred a move to North Africa or even Italy (especially after seeing how the Kuban map looks).  I enjoyed the carrier landings back in the old IL-2 days, but the gameplay never made any sense to me (you generally had to place the carriers way too close to each other to avoid spending way too much time in transit, and the ship damage modelling was so far behind what I was used to in my submarine and other naval sims that it just wasn't very satisfying even when you did manage to bomb the crap out of the enemy carriers).  I also thought the planned jump from Midway to Okinawa was a bit odd (though I'd love to play an Okinawa scenario seeing as my dad participated in the landings there), and I was really hoping that they could be persuaded to move to something like New Guinea/Solomons before getting to Okinawa, as many folks were suggesting.

 

On balance, I'm much more thrilled about the prospects for Flying Circus, tanks and all the other new stuff they announced than I am disappointed by the delay in getting to the PTO.  But now that I've got my Rift, I'm actually kinda sorry we're not going to get to the PTO for a while longer - the thought of how those carrier landings will look in VR has got me salivating a little - I think that's going to be amazing!

[Gambit21]

When you guys get to your mid 60s then we'll talk.

 

It's coming...don't go off the deep end about it.

In the meantime look forward to the Jug!!!

[Feathered_IV]

Sims don't get easier to make over time, they just seem to get harder.  Now that the difficulties have been explained, I'm not expecting the Pacific chapter to ever be a viable project.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

[Edited]

War Thunder not so long ago released Japanese tanks which were added with all details and features that existed in real life. All of this was accomplished with help of certain female that provided sources and documentation necessary to produce this relatively unknown aspect of Pacific war. If tanks could be brought to virtual life than aircraft and ships (which are far better researched and known) are certainly not impossible. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Bearcat

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

[Edited]

War Thunder not so long ago released Japanese tanks which were added with all details and features that existed in real life. All of this was accomplished with help of certain female that provided sources and documentation necessary to produce this relatively unknown aspect of Pacific war. If tanks could be brought to virtual life than aircraft and ships (which are far better researched and known) are certainly not impossible. 

 

Viable and impossible are not the same thing.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Bearcat

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Yes, play with words when you have nothing substantial to add or to counter the argument.

Regardless, nowhere in Jasons statement was it presented that this project in terms of heading to Pacific was not viable. It was delayed due to reasons he has posted. Anything beyond is over-interpretation.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Yes, play with words when you have nothing substantial to add or to counter the argument.

Regardless, nowhere in Jasons statement was it presented that this project in terms of heading to Pacific was not viable. It was delayed due to reasons he has posted. Anything beyond is over-interpretation.

 

What argument? Was there actually a constructive discussion here? Was there a thought out debate? I don't see that anywhere.

 

All you've done for days on end now is whine about not getting your way. How long are you going cry about it? I'd have figured you'd be completely out of tears by now. Get over it. Move on with your life. Seriously.

 

Nobody said it was impossible so stop pushing that narrative. The project was postponed because it is not currently viable for a multitude of reasons that the much-more-informed-than-you producer already stated. 

 

Nothing is changing. Nothing is going to change. Jason knows better than you.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Well, to be fair; Jason’s overall message is that the Pacific is not dead but delayed. It’s not that it couldn’t be done. It just couldn’t be done in the stated timeframe. It’s probably pushed out about three years now while we get some great additional content and they do/translate all of the necessary research. Devs are pretty transparent about all of this.

 

So not worried about this at all. Certainly not worth all of the hand wringing and chippy-ness this has devolved into.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Well, to be fair; Jason’s overall message is that the Pacific is not dead but delayed. It’s not that it couldn’t be done. It just couldn’t be done in the stated timeframe. It’s probably pushed out about three years now while we get some great additional content and they do/translate all of the necessary research. Devs are pretty transparent about all of this.

 

So not worried about this at all. Certainly not worth all of the hand wringing and chippy-ness this has devolved into.

 

Precisely.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

What argument? Was there actually a constructive discussion here? Was there a thought out debate? I don't see that anywhere.

 

All you've done for days on end now is whine about not getting your way. How long are you going cry about it? I'd have figured you'd be completely out of tears by now. Get over it. Move on with your life. Seriously.

 

Nobody said it was impossible so stop pushing that narrative. The project was postponed because it is not currently viable for a multitude of reasons that the much-more-informed-than-you producer already stated. 

 

Nothing is changing. Nothing is going to change. Jason knows better than you.

 

[Edited]

 

My entire point was not related to whether its good or bad of what happened but whether statement made by Feathered has any substance. Now you may play with words, but his statement is clear - "I'm not expecting the Pacific chapter to ever be a viable project". If you even spent a moment analyzing what I've said you'd realize that I referred to the delay. 

 

And I did not even question here Jasons decision. Best follow your own advice and move on. 

 

Let's just do that.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Bearcat

[Bearcat]

Yes and no. I expect the Zero to be one of the first two released in EA. There should be enough on that particular AC to justify it's inclusion pretty early. The others perhaps not. I'm still predicting Wildcat and Zero first. It makes sense from both a development and a financial standpoint.

 

I agree...  when the time comes of course.. and who knows how this will all pan out..  heck 5 years ago.. this sim was not going to even be here.. never see the light of day.. fail miserably .. etc etc etc..  Then after it's initial release..  it had no coops.. no user friendly mission editor.. etc etc.. etc..  then after that  ...... etc etc etc...

 

So .....  if this entire community has learned nothing else it should be to just trust the team..  especially now... and enjoy what comes and wait and see.. 

 

Sims don't get easier to make over time, they just seem to get harder.  Now that the difficulties have been explained, I'm not expecting the Pacific chapter to ever be a viable project.

 

... and just please...  stop this speculative suggested facts kind of stuff.. When it comes to this sim.. with hindsight.. that kind of speculation has been wrong more often than not. 

 

Not trying to be snarky... just.. saying.. 

[Lusekofte]

 

 

The one "Empire" naval aircraft I'd want to fly is the Firefly.  I've seen a real one fly, and it's an outstanding aircraft.

 

Completely forgot about the Firefly   Damn that would be great plane for this sim 

 

 

Sims don't get easier to make over time, they just seem to get harder.  Now that the difficulties have been explained, I'm not expecting the Pacific chapter to ever be a viable project.

 

Hsssh I got a lot of "fanPM" saying these things out loud. I recomend you not to do it.

But sadly I agree, We simply seems to be too few , and this hotrod pack we are getting shows it. I do not doubt Jasons ambitions to make it happen, and I will buy all this + some donation packs for a free feling of pitching in

[Gambit21]

[Edited]

 

My entire point was not related to whether its good or bad of what happened but whether statement made by Feathered has any substance.

 

With much respect to Feathered, he's incorrect thankfully.

It's just going to take an unusual amount of effort and research to build the PTO up to standard, but that roadmap is already laid out...the plan is in place.

It's just a matter of backing up, looking at the big picture, and changing the battle plan. Do different than starting any other project and realizing you need to re-figure a few things and change the time-line.

It will require a trip to Japan on Jason's part.

 

In the meantime they're producing another product while work on researching the PTO happens.

No drama.

[sniperton]

The decision has been made, and it's pointless to speculate about the future which no one can foresee. See you all one year later here!

[Gambit21]

The reasons  for the delay have nothing to do with multicrew limitations.

[Lusekofte]

Multicrew limitations? in all simulators I flown multi engined/crew is the planes taking most recources to make, and give very little money back. Not only that , if a 4 x10 crew bomber flew a mission on a server the server is half full.

I really really depend on they make them anyway, people flying fighters benefit by human controlled bombers, they just do not know it. 

I heard there was a limit on how many they could have in a plane, I rather believe it is a economical one not a practical one. But none the less a real limitation.

[Gambit21]

Ahh...

Well who knows, maybe some sort of further optimization will occur in the future and there won't be so much CPU overhead with such things.

I can place quite a few bombers in formation now though...manned by AI of course.