Game version 2.012 discussion: Hs 129, Kuban map, FM update, New shadows

[senseispcc]

 

I find the Bf109 a easy plane to fly and that for any model for a fast plane on the ailerons on the German side you need a Fw190 every one know that.

The BF109 was slower on the ailerons than the Spitfire but their pilots where a lot better, in Russia this factor was even greater with a good pilot even a heavy plane like the P47 is a killer.

And the P47 was a slow climber but most of US pilots had a lot of flight hours "before" entering combat. Until mid war most Soviet pilots did not like RAF ones have the training time to learn the good tactics and for the Germans the fact is the inverse after mid war the quality of most pilots did decrease due to the fact that training was less and less long and tourough.

But this is a simulation not real war, luckily for us, we should all be dead now, no?! And many times so!

Once more I thanks the development team for their hard work and for trying to make it beautiful and realistic.  

Edited September 3, 2017 by senseispcc

[ShamrockOneFive]

Aaaaaand we have our first 109 jockeys come crying.

 

Should be expected.

 

Yeah. I wondered when that would start

 

Honestly, I struggled with the Bf109 for about 48 hours. I went and watched some of those pilot interviews with the guys talking about how they flew the Bf109 and I reset my thoughts on how to fly it in IL-2: BoX and I'm getting there with how to fly it properly again. The elevator may get heavy at speed but I've mitigated that in my attack runs by throttling back a bit (like some of the German aces who discussed flying it) and I've come to really appreciate just how much rudder precision and authority there is now. The one guy mentioned using rudder to walk the nose across his target during an attack run. Works like a charm! Once I got into the hang of it I've been doing well against the AI. When I get there a little bit I'll be at least half decent against humans. Really the Bf109 maintains its superiority in areas like climb and is a top contender for speed at most altitudes and it can still dictate the fight like few other fighters.

[KoN_]

I'm looking forward to getting back to ths .

Sorry been away working . 

[Finkeren]

Just don't fly the 109 at 650kph IAS. It's not hard. People have been used to just drop down from +4K and maintain complete controllability for the shot, before they zoom back up.

[I./JG1_Deschain]

I totally agree with this. Bf 109 has nothing. Too heavy pitch up over 400km. (I think over 500km is right in historically.) Bf 109 can't do barrel roll with this slow roll rate. and Yak has too much good climb to Bf 109 does. Bf 109 can't zoom.

 

R.I.P Bf 109

 

there is Bf 109 doing barrel roll, seems pretty close to what we have in the sim, im happy with new flight model, its challenging because you just cant correct your attack angle as easily as you could before, but i think its how it should be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amcgFddG9II

[LLv24_Zami]

there is Bf 109 doing barrel roll, seems pretty close to what we have in the sim, im happy with new flight model, its challenging because you just cant correct your attack angle as easily as you could before, but i think its how it should be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amcgFddG9II

Nice video!

 

Damn Bf-109 is a great looking warplane, love it!

[Lusekofte]

come on people, we who have been here since the start know better. The 109 pilots have behaved very nicely about this update. Some complaints, but come on not as we are used to. I am really proud of them, this time I took the time and tried out the 109 G2 in qmb, with custom load out and full fuel. Did not bother to change a thing, anyway 

I found it to be a remarkable stable gun platform. It actually impressed me, but the pilots flying it knows more about the fighting ability than me. If the turn rate decreased and some russian planes got better after the patch, the change for them is double, understandable not as satisfying. For the first time you do not feel like a moving target in the P 40, it got a long way to be superior to the 109, still I think a fair pilot can be dangerous in it

Edited September 3, 2017 by 216th_LuseKofte

[CanadaOne]

I love the 109s.

 

 

 

They make a lovely thud when they hit the ground.

[Finkeren]

come on people, we who have been here since the start know better. The 109 pilots have behaved very nicely about this update. Some complaints, but come on not as we are used to.

Ok you're right Luse. So far we have, like, 2 here in the thread and however many I met online (which weren't that many) In general the update has been extremely well received and whining has been minimal.

 

No need to start a flame war over two people who got their panties in a twist.

[LLv24_Zami]

Ok you're right Luse. So far we have, like, 2 here in the thread and however many I met online (which weren't that many) In general the update has been extremely well received and whining has been minimal.

 

No need to start a flame war over two people who got their panties in a twist.

Yes, overall feedback from the improved FM is very positive. As it deserves to be. And when someone doesn`t like it, he`s free to express his feelings for what I care. 

 

But I was trying to point that these online aces don`t have any more flying hours in the real Bf-109F/G than the rest of us mortals. Or if someone has, please tell me, would be very interesting to hear your comments. They seem to think that online stats are the only thing that makes you qualified to comment plane behavior and FMs. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

As one who was very reluctant to buy BoK, due to it being a third Easter front Instalment, I must say I am extremely blown away by the quality of the map. It adds so much to this game. Mountains, forests, seas, agriculture. It's simply outstanding. Kudos upon kudos to the devs. The size alone is impressive and points towards some great additions for the future, pacific, China/Burma/India. The forests have me dreaming of thick jungle in a future Pacific expansion. The performance, compared to the other game, is shockingly good in VR. It has to be embarrassing for the competition that these guys can produce a map of such quality and diversity, with little impact on systems within a year. Outstanding work. Well done.

[Danziger]

The new 109 FM has difficult controls at speed? It's a good thing I've been practicing in the MiG all these years.

[LLv24_Zami]

As one who was very reluctant to buy BoK, due to it being a third Easter front Instalment, I must say I am extremely blown away by the quality of the map. It adds so much to this game. Mountains, forests, seas, agriculture. It's simply outstanding. Kudos upon kudos to the devs. The size alone is impressive and points towards some great additions for the future, pacific, China/Burma/India. The forests have me dreaming of thick jungle in a future Pacific expansion. The performance, compared to the other game, is shockingly good in VR. It has to be embarrassing for the competition that these guys can produce a map of such quality and diversity, with little impact on systems within a year. Outstanding work. Well done.

And what is best, it`s totally different than earlier maps. I like Moscow and Stalingrad too, now we have great diversity with these 3 maps. It`s going to be great to advance in career through them.

[Finkeren]

The new 109 FM has difficult controls at speed? It's a good thing I've been practicing in the MiG all these years.

Not "difficult", just "slow". The controls are way more harmonized and pleasant than the MiG.

[StG2_Manfred]

Yes, overall feedback from the improved FM is very positive. As it deserves to be. And when someone doesn`t like it, he`s free to express his feelings for what I care. 

 

But I was trying to point that these online aces don`t have any more flying hours in the real Bf-109F/G than the rest of us mortals. Or if someone has, please tell me, would be very interesting to hear your comments. They seem to think that online stats are the only thing that makes you qualified to comment plane behavior and FMs. 

 

What??? You should learn to read I recommend!

 

I was replying to Bullets post (see below) where he's explaining 3wu how he should fly the plane, explaining him that I'm sure 3wu knows how to fly. Noone except of you was talking about experience in a real Bf109. So don't try to justify your knee-jerk reaction.

 

Btw. it's all about online experience. Only online pilots learn to fly a plane to it's full strenghts and know all the pros and cons. You cannot evaluate the capabilities from fighting AI 

 

 

 

Without being to rude you should learn how to fly =) If you know what you are doing 109's (f2/f4/g2/g4) are still all uber-weapons and should wipe the floor with anything the reds have to fly if you are above or even the same height as an opponent.   No pilot who wants to live should engage with an opponent who has a height advantage unless that enemy pilot is very unskilled 

 

Didn't mean to upvote this, you are probably not trimmed properly.. At high speeds its usefull to move trim to about 0 as it gives you a lot more "pitch up" to use and turn harder!  And the 109 CAN do a barrel roll aha.

[kalbuth]

Btw. it's all about online experience. Only online pilots learn to fly a plane to it's full strenghts and know all the pros and cons. You cannot evaluate the capabilities from fighting AI 

To be perfectly exact : "Only online pilots learn to fly a simulated plane to it's full strength."

That doesn't mean they know anything about the real thing. So in a way, they are not any more qualified than anyone in judging the fidelity of a simulation

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I find you can learn a lot more about an aircraft's handling and performance by flying acrobatics, going through a repertoire of manoeuvres and taking it for a spin at different altitudes. Air combat makes you too focused on energy states, angles and positions, you miss out on the finer aspects of flying.

Edited September 3, 2017 by 216th_Lucas_From_Hell

[LLv24_Zami]

What??? You should learn to read I recommend!

 

I was replying to Bullets post (see below) where he's explaining 3wu how he should fly the plane, explaining him that I'm sure 3wu knows how to fly. Noone except of you was talking about experience in a real Bf109. So don't try to justify your knee-jerk reaction.

 

Btw. it's all about online experience. Only online pilots learn to fly a plane to it's full strenghts and know all the pros and cons. You cannot evaluate the capabilities from fighting AI 

Yeah, right...  Online aces...

 

I understood you completely and there was a reason for talking about RL experience. That would make a difference, not being an online ace. You probably have just as much RL Bf-109 flight time as we all do. So we all are equally qualified to comment FMs

Edited September 3, 2017 by Zami

[Guest deleted@83466]

Heavy controls at high speeds was a historical (and aerodynamic) fact of the 109.  This is now properly reflected in the sim.  The longer time it takes now to move the trim wheel is also based on information about the actual aircraft (not something the developers just changed arbitrarily).  I applaud the developers commitment to making the best simulation of these aircraft that they can.   It seems that people complaining about these things, bemoaning the "death" of a once-great airplane, might do well to ask themselves if they want a "game" aircraft or an aircraft simulation. 

 

And let's face it, the 109 F and G's are still the best or second best (if you count the 190) aircraft in the game, and the good flyers who know what they're doing should have little or no trouble continuing to dominate the skies.   In fact, with the added stability and ability to rudder-in with precision to align the shot, it seems like it might even be better than it was before.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Iceworm

[StG2_Manfred]

Yeah, right...  Online aces...

 

I understood you completely. You have just as much RL Bf-109 flight time as we all do. So we all are equally qualified to comment FMs

 

Simulated aircrafts in an simulation, flown by sim pilots. ...and you are talking ab RL planes? Dream on.... 

 

 

 

 

Heavy controls at high speeds was a historical (and aerodynamic) fact of the 109.  This is now properly reflected in the sim.  The longer time it takes now to move the trim wheel is also based on information about the actual aircraft (not something the developers just changed arbitrarily).  I applaud the developers commitment to making the best simulation of these aircraft that they can.   It seems that people complaining about these things, bemoaning the "death" of a once-great airplane, might do well to ask themselves if they want a "game" aircraft or an aircraft simulation. 

 

And let's face it, the 109 F and G's are still the best or second best (if you count the 190) aircraft in the game, and the really good flyers should have little or no trouble continuing to dominate the skies.

 

I'm perfect with that. Are you in the same way noticable and critical in the other thread where the suspicious rollrate of the La is discussed (https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30821-la-5-2012/). Or do you jump only in when German planes performance is criticized?

[LLv24_Zami]

Simulated aircrafts in an simulation, flown by sim pilots. ...and you are talking ab RL planes? Dream on.... 

You have no clue about the point here? 

 

Okay, carry on

[Guest deleted@83466]

I'm perfect with that. Are you in the same way noticable and critical in the other thread where the suspicious rollrate of the La is discussed (https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30821-la-5-2012/). Or do you jump only in when German planes performance is criticized?

 

I don't fly the La-5, and I probably have less than 10 hours total in it, and only about 5 minutes offline with it with the new FM.  I hope to someday spend more time with it, but haven't yet.  Frankly I haven't been all that interested in that particular aircraft, and haven't read much about it's historical characteristics.    I simply don't feel I have the knowledge to contribute to that discussion.  If it's determined by knowledgeable people that the aircraft has incorrect roll rates, then the developers should fix it, and that's all I have to say about that.  In any case, resorting to the tactic of "whataboutism" isn't going to win any argument concerning the characteristics of the 109.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Iceworm

[senseispcc]

Did someone already post this link? If yes sorry to post it again;

https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2017/09/02/il-2-patch-2-012-flight-model-impressions/

 

Nuce very nice rhey are like they should!   

[StG2_Manfred]

You have no clue about the point here? 

 

Okay, carry on

 

Well Zami, if a sim pilot complains about the performance of a simulated plane and then get advice from another sim pilot how to fly this simulated plane within the simulation. And I point out that the complaining guy do not need such advice because he's apparently a good sim pilot and knows this simulated airplane to fly then, yes, I admit I have no clue what your argument about a real Bf109 has to do with that  

[BlitzPig_EL]

Using your WOL stats as a basis for anything other than getting kills has NOTHING to do with accurately simulating an aircraft.

 

You are just butthurt because your incorrect 109 FM advantage on a dogfight server has been made closer to the historical reality of it.

 

Cry me a freaking river, gamer.

[StG2_Manfred]

NOBODY was talking about correctly or incorrectly simulated aircrafts in this case. I just mentioned that 3wu needs no advice to play this game, judging from his stats. Somehow I think you guys are not able to read properly...

 

And what incorrect advantage do you talking about? That the 109s wobbled like hell, or that the russian planes can hit up to 700m, the ufo flaps of the Yaks, or the suspicious roll rate of the La5?

 

Yeeah, we all strive only for accurately simulated aircrafts right.

[Feathered_IV]

Only online pilots learn to fly a plane to it's full strengths

Full exploits you mean.

[curiousGamblerr]

Day 3: The tenuous peace since the update has ended. Insults and mere semantic debates abound as pilots on each side mount their high horses and prepare for battle...

[[CPT]CptJackSparrow]

Day 3: The tenuous peace since the update has ended. Insults and mere semantic debates abound as pilots on each side mount their high horses and prepare for battle...

 

That made me lulz a bit =)

[85FG_WolfHellllman1966]

Hi, I pre-ordered Kuban when it was announced. Now the update is live I can't find it anywhere in the game. My main menue had the BOK badge along with BPS and BOW but nothing in the Campaign menu. I'm guessing I'm a little stupid, and have not been able to find an answer on the forum.....I've had some large(downloaded) updates but ever since it was announced that Kuban was available it appears nowhere in my game? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[216th_Jordan]

Hi, I pre-ordered Kuban when it was announced. Now the update is live I can't find it anywhere in the game. My main menue had the BOK badge along with BPS and BOW but nothing in the Campaign menu. I'm guessing I'm a little stupid, and have not been able to find an answer on the forum.....I've had some large(downloaded) updates but ever since it was announced that Kuban was available it appears nowhere in my game? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

The planes and map should be available to you. The campaign is not yet ready.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Hi, I pre-ordered Kuban when it was announced. Now the update is live I can't find it anywhere in the game. My main menue had the BOK badge along with BPS and BOW but nothing in the Campaign menu. I'm guessing I'm a little stupid, and have not been able to find an answer on the forum.....I've had some large(downloaded) updates but ever since it was announced that Kuban was available it appears nowhere in my game? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

We're in Early Access mode for Battle of Kuban. Since December we've been getting patches featuring new Battle of Kuban content. You would undoubtedly be getting the same updates. The Kuban map and the Hs129B-2 are just the most recent additions to the content we already have access to. What are you trying to find right now? Maybe we can help you out a bit more.

[Blitzen]

I've been unable to get into the Forum for the past week or so,so I don't know whether this has been asked & answered:why are there no multiple plane missions possible in the southern/mountain part of the new 7 beautiful Kuban map?Just wondering...

[19//Moach]

Hi Devs, with the last update you killed the 109 complete.I promise you will not get any more money from me.

 

and now we know whom to scorn for being the bane of every realism loving sim-fan up until now -- you "109 jocks" should be ashamed

 

by all means, PLEASE - vacate our community and let us be rid of your destructively stats-obsessed, self entitled ilk.

 

 

 

 

god knows how many good pilots and enthusiasts have given up on this series out of frustration over a few gamers with their magic 109s, prowling around for the benefit of their exceedingly competitive egos

 

 

 

 

 

this kind of gamer is similarly to blame for phenomena such as the top-heaviness of games like counter-strike... a few shameless, narcissistic players hone their "skills" around unfair exploits to gain overwhelming advantages over others, rendering the game all but inaccessible (effectively unenjoyable) to anyone besides their power-hungry "elite" (aka: "L33t")

 

and some of these grow spoiled over it, the more vocal even demanding additional advantages, battling those seeking realism/balance (aka: a better game for all) in the forums as though it were "part of the game" to lobby developers for nerfing-and-buffing ingame assets at the expense of overall quality

 

 

I am glad to see that this particular breed of player has finally met a day of reckoning here - such cries of frustration are music to the ears of a community long anxious for their comeuppance 

 

 

good riddance, I say

 

 

 

and a great round of applause to our steadfast, noble developers. who have graciously dodged the press of wrongful forum-warriors and committed to deliver a top-notch realistic simulation, of such formidable repute as to redefine the expectations for the next generation of flight sims to come.

 

may every game developer throughout the industry learn from this most laudable example.

 

many cheers!

Edited September 4, 2017 by 19//Moach

[AndyJWest]

I've been unable to get into the Forum for the past week or so,so I don't know whether this has been asked & answered:why are there no multiple plane missions possible in the southern/mountain part of the new 7 beautiful Kuban map?Just wondering...

 

From the 'full text' update notes:

 

 Please note that the work on improving the AI is underway and it is not very proficient in mountain flying, we will work on it this Autumn.

 

I seem to recall that IL-2 '46 had similar problems. Probably quite tricky to solve, since AI flying below mountain-top level doesn't just need to avoid terrain directly, but avoid getting itself into blind valleys etc it can neither turn around in nor climb out of.

[19//Moach]

(...)  AI flying below mountain-top level doesn't just need to avoid terrain directly, but avoid getting itself into blind valleys etc it can neither turn around in nor climb out of.

 

VERY tricky indeed... 

 

it's something of an art and science to develop an AI that can convincingly navigate such challenges.  one might propose a pathfinder-style system to prevent planes becoming cornered in valleys, but then again, would human pilots not also venture into such folly? 

 

how smart is too smart for an AI?

 

 

these questions have no definite answer as of such.  and the state-of-the-art is yet short of a solution that is wholly satisfactory

[Feathered_IV]

Its quite a fun QMB challenge at the moment, taking an unarmed I-16 over the western hills against waves of respawning enemies.  See how many you can force to run into the ground before they get you. 

[85FG_WolfHellllman1966]

We're in Early Access mode for Battle of Kuban. Since December we've been getting patches featuring new Battle of Kuban content. You would undoubtedly be getting the same updates. The Kuban map and the Hs129B-2 are just the most recent additions to the content we already have access to. What are you trying to find right now? Maybe we can help you out a bit more.

I just don't know how to DL the map and planes. Do I need to purchase them? from the website?

[Finkeren]

I just don't know how to DL the map and planes. Do I need to purchase them? from the website?

You don't need to DL anything. It's already in the sim. You just need to purchase and activate BoK to get access to the content.

[216th_Jordan]

I just don't know how to DL the map and planes. Do I need to purchase them? from the website?

Did you maybe not activate your BoK key yet? Because I also dont see your BoK tag under your forum name. If not, just activate your key and log into your game, the content should then be available to you.