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Hi Sokol, many thanks for your suggestion! But then, in this case, how I should connect the rotary switch to the BU0836X?

 

Excuse me for all these questions, but my eletronics knowledge are very poor...

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

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Desktop Aviator version use a dedicated USB controller - see the mc attached in PCB, and their firmware (code) is able to differentiate if Telecaster switch lever is moving UP or DOWN - what is the "X" of question.

 

In game (e.g. Bo'X) you don't have command for e.g. flaps 10, flaps 20, flaps 40, flaps 70º, hence wire this Telecaster in 4 buttons in BU0836 - as he is designed for, will have no much use.

 

The tip from 737NG is for using L.Bodnar encoder software, make a 3 position switch or rotary differentiate are moving UP or DOWN (or left/right) , or behavior like a encoder.

 

I don't know if you can expand this for 4 positions (Telecaster switch), but the way to know is trying. :)

 

I don't own all of Bo'X planes, are some that have more than 2 fixed stage on flaps?

 

Stuka has two  three I think.

Edited by Sokol1

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I guess what you can test is this:

 

292r24p.jpg

EDIT - Picture corrected 

 

In position 1 no button is connected, so the code is is 0 0 

In position 2 button  2 (A) is connected, so the code is 0 1

In position 3 button  1 and 2  (A, B) is connected, so the code is 1 1 - the diodes is necessary for avoid that when switch is in position 2 or 4 the signal "leak" for button 1 or 2 (pos 3).

In position 4 button  1 (B) is connected, so the code is 1 0

 

Telecaster switch moved down will press sequentially button 1 and button 2 when moved up.

 

If this "hardware" solution fail you can wire the switch in four buttons (as they are projected)  and using Joy2Key "profiles" and "virtual buttons" generate the keypress necessary for flap down and flap up. I used this for DCSW Mig-21 weapon selector (11 positions) before LLC adopt a more friendly alternative (one button/key for next, one for previous weapon).

Edited by Sokol1

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Hi Sokol, many many thanks for your help!

 

 

Sokol1

Posted Yesterday, 16:46

I guess what you can test is this:

 

292r24p.jpg

EDIT - Picture corrected 

 

In position 1 no button is connected, so the code is is 0 0 

In position 2 button  2 (A) is connected, so the code is 0 1

In position 3 button  1 and 2  (A, B) is connected, so the code is 1 1 - the diodes is necessary for avoid that when switch is in position 2 or 4 the signal "leak" for button 1 or 2 (pos 3).

In position 4 button  1 (B) is connected, so the code is 1 0

 

Telecaster switch moved down will press sequentially button 1 and button 2 when moved up.

 

If this "hardware" solution fail you can wire the switch in four buttons (as they are projected)  and using Joy2Key "profiles" and "virtual buttons" generate the keypress necessary for flap down and flap up. I used this for DCSW Mig-21 weapon selector (11 positions) before LLC adopt a more friendly alternative (one button/key for next, one for previous weapon).

 

Well, so in this way I will have one Telecaster click to one flap notch sequentially, right? As if every time I pressed the button.

 

For joy2flight, I just installed it....maybe then you'll tell me how to use it ....

 

Thanks again! Ciao!

 

Marco

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Yes, with this setup moving Telecaster lever down one button BU0836 is pressed in all 4 lever stages, and for up other button, like a encoder do, but this switch has tactile click when change positions.

 

Rest test this in game, I am not sure if this switch will be useful for all planes due different flaps operation:

 

Some planes is "toggle"  Up/Down by momentary press a key/button, e.g. IL-2, Spitfire.

 

Others is in stage by momentary press a key/button, e.g. Stuka that is (IRL) Up, Neutral, Flaps 1, Neutral, Flaps 2, Neutral, but in Bo'X the Neutral is not player commanded, so require just press one key/button 2 times for down (or 1 time for Flaps 1) and another key/button 2 times for up.

 

And other planes require press and hold a key/button until flaps lower or raise the desired amount, e.g. Bf 109, for this type I suspect that this switch will no work.

 

EDIT - I think that for this game series will be more practical use this kind of switch (less expensive models are available):

 

http://www.k4direct.com/switches/sealed-lever-switches/k-four-switches-part-number-13-123-sealed-switch-chrome-lever-screw-terminals-mon-off-mon-50a.html

 

Is (MON)-OFF-(MON), so will work well with all types of flaps of the game, tanking only 2 buttons in BU0836.

Edited by Sokol1

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If you already have this Telecaster switch, look if had a position where the common don't make contact with other terminal (a OFF position).

 

Because if has not this position you will can use only 2 position wired as button in BU0836, because for send command for games happens only when an terminal (switch) is turned ON (make contact), not if start ON and then is turned OFF (interrupt contact).

 

I did some profiles in Joy2key, but for practical use is need a switch that start in OFF or have at least 5 way.

Edited by Sokol1

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Hi Sokol, many thanks for all your support. No, I have not yet the telecaster switch, but for my purpose this switch would be ideal.

 

I will buy it and the I will try to menage it to have, as by your indications, a functionally flap switch...I hope... :joy:

 

 

EDIT - I think that for this game series will be more practical use this kind of switch (less expensive models are available):

 

http://www.k4direct....ff-mon-50a.html

 

Is (MON)-OFF-(MON), so will work well with all types of flaps of the game, tanking only 2 buttons in BU0836.

 

This one is UP and DOWN position only, right. One press (up or down) one notch of flaps, right? Maybe if telecaster doesn't work I will take one of this.

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

 

Edit: Sokol for information I have BU0836X, not BU0836.....I hope for Telecaster is the same....

Edited by markino

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My though about use this switch - in a way that work for different flaps controls systems:

 

- In game I set F for raise flap and V for lower - like are used at more than 10 years in IL-2'46. Use any keys, but avoid modifiers (Alt, Ctrl...) like in default settings.

 

- In BU0836 the switch is connected in 2 buttons positions -  I simulate their use with an 4 buttons joystick using their buttons 2 and 3.

 

Why Joy2key is need? 

 

- For  make the switch press different keys if is moved down or if is moved up (like a encoder behavior), this is done though "profiles".

 

So for start I create three "profiles" in Joy2key, named as  Flaps 0, Flaps1, Flaps2.

 

OBS - If plan use Joy2key for other commands, create a "profile" and set all before flaps, then make 3 copies of this "profile" and rename as "Flaps0", etc and add the flaps settings.

 

Flaps_Joy2key.jpg
 
Flaps_telecaster.jpg
 
I test this in BoS and work well (in Clod not so much, because flaps commands is this game is "broken" (like many things), adding non existing "neutral" in some planes, e.g. He 111)
 
The "virtual button" (button alias) is need to press the "Special" function loading a different "profile" when needed.
 
In Joy2key options set the number of buttons to configure to 32 (Windows limit), this in practice means that you will need 4 buttons in BU0836, 2 connect to switch and two not connected, to be used as "button alias" in Joy2Key. In my test, using only a 4 buttons joystick I set 12 and so have 8 "virtual" buttons.
 
BTW - With all this "complication" why use this Telecaster switch - instead a (MON)-OFF-(MON), as above?
 
Due the visual (and tactile) feedback if flaps are down or up based on switch lever position, as well in planes like Bf 109 just move the switch for button 2 and forget, the flaps will lower full. ;)
Edited by Sokol1

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Hi Sokol, thanks for replies! :)

 

 

BTW - With all this "complication" why use this Telecaster switch - instead a (MON)-OFF-(MON), as above?

 

Because is very similar to flaps devices I use in real life, in General Aviation and for ultralight flight. And not only: as per you, me too use keys "F" and "V" to move flaps up and down, and normally I play with IL-2 1946 modded in B.A.T. (with the next year I would to get a new gaming PC and install BoS and/or BoM). So the Telecaster configuration would be the most similar for flaps position, as using in B.A.T.

Also, you consider that I like the tactile configuration with the flaps notch. :)

Obviously, if I realise this way doesn't work for my pourposes, I will change as per your suggested (MON)-OFF-(MON) switch.

 

 

I did some profiles in Joy2key, but for practical use is need a switch that start in OFF or have at least 5 way.

 

This is not a problem, I can get a 5 way Telecaster switch.... ;)

 

Thanks for sharing your J2K button/switch configuration! When I'll have the switch I will ask you to shed light about configutation...

 

Ciao!!

 

Marco

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Hi Sokol, this is the OAK 5 way switch that I took. 

 

feXk2gf.jpg?1

 

7ahdO6I.jpg?1

 

The wiring is the same you showed me days ago? Could you suggest me the correct wiring for this 5 way switch, please?

 

Many thanks! Ciao!

 

Marco

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This is slight different, the common pad are connecting to two pins at same time, let me think about how use.

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This guitar switch is a bit "complicated" - is not a pure "5 way" switch, but a "2-pole 3-way switch" that connect two poles at same time ("make before break")  using two layers, seems have 2 pins for common wire one in each side.

 

http://alloutput.com/guitar/5-way-switches-explained/

 

In guitar usage is wired  like this:

 

1 ON > 1+2 ON > 2+3 ON > 3 ON 

 

Or

 

1 ON > 1+2 ON > 2 ON > 2+3 ON  > 3 ON

 

Perhaps could be used - for game flap control - only the positions in bold... check if have positions wheres the common wires make contact with only one pin.

 

Or maybe require modify the contact pad eliminating this "1+2, 2+3"...

Edited by Sokol1

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This seems work like the first you link (4+1 pins).

 

Thing is, this Telecaster/guitar switch is made for specific job:

 

 

For use in games control you may need do some modification, for example in this "2-pole-3-way" may if remove the tab that make contact with nearest pin result practical, but require skill for do the physical modification and will by trial and error - what for their price may result expensive. :)

Edited by Sokol1

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For use in games control you may need do some modification, for example in this "2-pole-3-way" may if remove the tab that make contact with nearest pin result practical, but require skill for do the physical modification and will by trial and error - what for their price may result expensive. :)

 Hi Sokol, for the modification I think is not so difficult (I hope...), and the cost of the switch is not so high....about 10€...

 

I think we can try to do the modification. If you have an idea, please, let me know and then I try to do it.

 

At the moment I gave the switch to my friend, he said he could help me to make the table 0-1. He called it the "table of truth"...(?) ....

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

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This "table of truth" is the binary code used by (some) Encoders.

 

But before you go in this way I suggest you simulate the switch usage in this way using a Encoder, but limiting to switch 4 positions. Maybe the switch hardware prevents practical use.

 

One thing about theses switches:

 

They first with 4 positions are ON-ON-ON-ON (seems don't have a always OFF position) but "break (the previous contact) before make (the next contact)".

 

The second with 3 positions in each side or PCB is ON-ON-ON-ON-ON (seems don't have a always OFF position) but "make (the next contact) before brake (the previous contact)".

 

My guess is that is need modify this second type - with more contacts - for the first type: "break before make".

 

Trough software (Joy2key, SVMapper) you can set key press in their ON and OFF state, when the wiper move from the pin and always from the pin.

 

And the software allow replicate the Encoder logic, press on key if lever is moved Up, and other key in lever is moved Down, but will be possible leave positions without command - for simulate NEUTRAL, what with Encoder is not possible.

 

You need adapt all this for you intended usage.

 

My previous suggestions is based on IL-2:BoS use, maybe don't fit for IL-2-'46, I don't know if MOD's change their flap logic.

 

For use in CLoD will have some headache because unless in Spitfire CLoD flaps control is "broken" adding NEUTRAL position for plane where's they don't exist, or ignoring flaps positions in other, and their logic at start of flight is with flap lever UP, what fit well for Spit, but not for planes that have NEUTRAL in flaps control like Hurricane (BoS do this control better).

Edited by Sokol1

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Hi Sokol, my friend has made the table of thruth. In the images below I show the arrangement of electrical contacts.

 

Could you tell me how should I wiring them and mapping them on joy2key, please?

 

 

2dqR4os.jpg

 

Aqaamhb.jpg

 

yC4aPBe.jpg

 

Many thanks for all! Ciao!

 

Marco

 

 

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In your table what means this P0 P1 P2 P3 ?

 

Is the switch stop positions?

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Hi Sokol, yes those are the switch stop positions. In the pictures the selector is in the P0 position.

 

Sorry for my forgetting... :blush:

 

Thanks. ciao!

 

Marco

Edited by markino

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Hi..i am a new user here. In my case I used a 10 turn pot in Pitch,but BoS doesn't allow axis in all planes. I can compare the encoder and the 10 turn pot in CloD, it doesn't feel like much of a difference in accuracy in my opinion. I can level trim any plane with the encoders. I might switch  to 3 or 5 turn pots.

 

pcb assembly supplier

Edited by NealXu

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Hi NealXu, I feel very comfortable with the rotary encoder. I can set the encoder accuracy with the Leobodnar encoder configuration software: http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=94&products_id=180

 

I am using this encoder: http://www.ebay.it/itm/1-x-Bourns-24-Pulse-Mechanical-Rotary-Encoder-PEC11R-4220K-S0024-6mm-Knurl-Shaft/222520522960?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

I set the encoder as suggested by Pirato and it works fine!

 

@Rani: grazie! Next step is the joystick and the control column, and follow the rudder pedals... :good:

 

@Sokol: hi, I tried to made a configuration with joytokey, but it doesn't works. Then I will post the .cfg file. Could you give me some suggestions then?

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

 

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Hi guys, I have a problem with my BU0836X card and Joytokey. I tried several times to use Joytokey with the card, but it seems that joytokey don't see the card.... :scratch_one-s_head:

 

Maybe I wrong somethings? Has anyone had the same problems?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

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I'm not familiar with Joytokey, but could it be it sees only the first 4 controllers ,while your BU0836X is the No.5? Atleast thats the issue when using SVmapper. Have you tried to disconect your other controllers?

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Have you tried to disconect your other controllers?

 

Hi Pirato, thanks for reply and suggestion!! Yes, I follow as above and now joytokey see the card. I set it by the option tag.

 

Now I try to map the switch for the flaps....hoping it works...

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

Edited by markino

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The flaps works but not as they should... now I have to understand how to make them move correctly....

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

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Hi guys, the flaps controls using oak switch it's almost working.... I am using joytokey to map the switch and I managed to set it as if I press F and V to raise and lower the flaps. I test this config with notepad also and when I move the lever the letter F and V show correctly on notepad.

 

Yet when I try on the game, for some reason the third position (T/O) is skipped, as the sim does not take the second V (flaps down mode)  and the T/O position goes in the landing position.

 

A friend of mine says it could be a bug in joytokey.

 

Have any of you ever had the same problems?

 

Many thanks for your help! Ciao!

 

Marco

Edited by markino

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Is difficult "mentalize" how this switch work.

 

You can post a screenshot of Games Controllers (Win+R = type joy.cpl hit Enter) with switch pressing a button?

 

When you say "Yet when I try on the game, for some reason the third position (T/O) is skipped,"

 

In what game and in what plane you are testing? Because as say previous, different games and different planes has different flaps control requirements.

 

I have using Joy2Key for several things, some a bit "unconventional" an never find a bug in this software.

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Hi Sokol, thanks for reply! Yes, next days I will post a screenshot of game controllers as you ask and screeshot of joytokey if usefull.

 

The game I refer is IL-2 1946 B.A.T. modded, and for all the planes the flaps works in the same way: V key to extend flaps for combat, T/O and landing postion and F key to retract flaps from landing position to T/O, combat and up position.

 

Maybe I explained wrong: using joytokey, to test if the switch is associated at the correct letter on the keyboard I open notepad and I move the lever down and up.

Now, when I move the lever down it correspond to push the V key, and in fact, on the notepad is printed three V (combat, T/O and landing position).

In the same way, when I move the lever upward, three F is printed on notepad (T/O, combat and up position). So, the first time I thought "well now it works!", but in the game the third position was skipped (1-up, 2-combat, 3-T/O, 4-landing), and the T/O position is now on the fourth lever position.

 

So I would to understand if there is a way, with joytokey, to have the correct behaviour of the switch.

 

Many thanks for all your help!

 

Marry Christmas & Happy Holydays!!

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

 

p.s. here the file .cfg I using for flaps (sorry but I don't know how to post the original file):

 

 

[General]
FileVersion=57
NumberOfJoysticks=3
NumberOfButtons=32
DisplayMode=2
UseDiagonalInput=0
UsePOV8Way=0
Threshold=20
Threshold2=20
KeySendMode=0
SoundFile=
ImageFile=

[Joystick 3]
Button20=7, 6, 0, 56:0:0:0, 46:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 95, 100, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Button21=7, 6, 0, 46:0:0:0, 56:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 95, 100, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Button22=7, 6, 0, 46:0:0:0, 56:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 95, 100, 0.000, 0, 0, 20

Edited by markino

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Hi Sokol, below the screenshots of game controllers (for BU0836X), in the 4 flaps positions:

 

Flaps UP:

 

2JLaHw3.jpg

 

Flaps Combat:

 

M5nDoZc.jpg

 

Flaps T/O:

 

a5YrZ1F.jpg

 

Flaps Landing:

 

Dgao2OL.jpg

 

Hope these are usefull.

 

Many thanks! Ciao!

 

Marco

 

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So have four positions:

 

1 - Button 20

2 - Button 20+21

3 - Button 21

4 - Button 21+22

 

This seems not viable to set as "encoder" in BU0936 like the 777NG guy did, this require a pair of buttons, e.g. 19-20, 21-22, 23-24...

 

Try create Joy2key profiles like I post above, each button press will press a "alias" virtual button for change profile.

When button 20+21 was pressed set both for press two virtual buttons, one for press V and one for change profile.

 

The bad of this solution is that reduce buttons usable in BU0836, since this virtual buttons need stay under Windows 32 limit, you will need 6.

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Hi Sokol, thanks for reply! But in this case how do you create a virtual button? Sorry for all this questions but is the first time I use a mapping software like Joytokey.... :blush:

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

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Thing is, to make this switch work like a Encoder - pressing a key in one direction and other in reverse direction, is need assign two different functions for each press in Joy2Key:

 

Press "V" and load a new profile - and this is the problem, in Joy2key this profile is loaded in "Special" and a button set  for "Special" can't be set for press "V".

 

But you can define that a button, eg. 20 simultaneous press a virtual button, e.g. 30, or that button 20+21 press other, e.g. 31 in "Button Alias".

 

Then use button 20 to press V and the new virtual button (e.g. 30) for load the new profile.

 

You need 4 profiles, in each profile you need define what button will press V and what will press F, this allow invert the flap switch direction from any position.

 

Is a bit "complicated", but with practice will understand. :)

Edited by Sokol1

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Hi Sokol, thanks for reply, finally we was able to manage joytokey to mapping the switch for flaps.

 

In the first attempt I wrong the contacts of the side 2 (L2). Then, with my friend, I corrected the contacts sequence (see the images below).

 

Now the flaps switch works fine! :good:

 

I post the correct images, the correct thruth table and the joytokey's .cfg I use now for the flaps. There are the buttons for landing gear also (buttons #18 and #19).

 

ocGfBhD.jpg

 

kCxcP3L.jpg

 

X7nmN0J.jpg

 

[General]
FileVersion=57
NumberOfJoysticks=3
NumberOfButtons=32
DisplayMode=2
UseDiagonalInput=0
UsePOV8Way=0
Threshold=20
Threshold2=20
KeySendMode=0
SoundFile=
ImageFile=

[Joystick 3]
Button20=7, 6, 0, 56:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 95, 100, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Button21=7, 8, 0, 56:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 95, 100, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Button22=7, 6, 0, 0:0:0:0, 56:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 95, 100, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Button23=7, 8, 0, 46:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 95, 100, 0.000, 0, 0, 200
Button24=7, 6, 0, 46:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 95, 100, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Button25=7, 6, 0, 46:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 95, 100, 0.000, 0, 0, 200
Button18=7, 6, 0, 47:0:0:0, 47:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 95, 100, 0.000, 0, 0, 200
Button19=7, 6, 0, 47:0:0:0, 47:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 95, 100, 0.000, 0, 0, 200

 

 

 

Hope this helps who wish to build a switch flaps like this.

 

Many thanks for all! Ciao!

 

Marco

 

 

 

 

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Hello... , I am using FSBus NG for most of my switches but was interested in the MJoy for the yoke and pedals and maybe the throttle quadrant, speed brake etc. But of course the extra buttons will be handy.

 

pcb manufacturing assembly

Edited by AndyFrew

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AndyFrew

 

MJoy16 is an old project (2004) based in ATMEGA16 mc - that don't have native USB support, but implement this by software.

 

Their "son" MMjoy2 use better and low cost hardware, Arduinos boards based in ATEGA32u4, that have USB connection and internal ADC with 10 bits of resolution, and allow use external ADC like MCP3202/8 with 14 bits of resolution.

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