Battle of Okinawa

[ShamrockOneFive]

For New Guinea you need USAAF and IJAAF aircraft, it was mostly an army show, for both sides, with the IJN only there in numbers very early on.

 

P39

P40

B26

Hudson

 

KI43

A6M

Betty

 

If you want to go a bit later add the Ki 61, and a bit later yet P38 and P47

 

I was kind of thinking if they did that scenario they would jump forward a bit and it'd be mostly an Army Air vs Army Air setup with the Midway Navy aircraft filling in the holes as needed.

 

P-38, P-47, B-26 or B-25, P-40 or P-39 still an option and then the Ki-43 (or Ki-43-II), Ki-61, Ki-48 or Ki-21, etc.

 

You're thinking more of a Port Moresby defense scenario for the Allies and the fighting across the Owen Stanley Mountains yeah?

Edited August 30, 2017 by ShamrockOneFive

[sniperton]

Don't you think it's a bit ridiculous to have no RAAF aircraft in a game about a battle that took place in Australian territory?

What about these:

 

Spitfire (already available)

P-40 (already available)

A-20 (will be available)

Buffalo (a candidate for Midway) 

 

Of course it would be great to have the Boomerang and the Beaufighter as well, but I think the RAAF could be represented quite well even without them.

[Chief_Mouser]

 

Buffalo (a candidate for Midway) 

 

 

Didn't think that the RAAF Buffalos (ex-Dutch) were used outside of Australia (?).

[sniperton]

In BoX the same base aircraft can have variants (engine and weaponry). The real question is whether it's worth making a Dutch cockpit, or we can live with the American one for all sub-types.

[Royal_Flight]

In BoX the same base aircraft can have variants (engine and weaponry). The real question is whether it's worth making a Dutch cockpit, or we can live with the American one for all sub-types.

Depends if the Dutch variants had a different cockpit... if they did I'm assuming the instruments would have been metric, anything else? I'm sure adding a different graphical set for a different variant if they were different wouldn't take much time. The RAF used Buffalos in Burma too so an RAF Far Eastern skin would be a good inclusion.

 

Also, maybe a Boomerang as a collector plane? I'd buy one for sure.

 

As far as a standard a/c set goes, after Midway's naval focus I'd support the idea of an army air forces set for both sides; something like

IJAAF:

Ki-43

Ki-61

Ki-21

Ki-48, maybe? Good mix of capable land-based fighters and bombers

 

USAAF:

P-38

P-47

B-26; and as i know I'm to the only one who's keen to see it,

C-47

 

Why the C-47 as standard? I'm not alone in being keen to see such a pivotal and iconic plane in the game. It would fit not only this but the Eastern Front as well, and basically every subsequent theatre. Also with variants of the P-39, P-40 and A-20 the USAAF already have a good number of capable a/c that can be used and with an RAAF skin for the the Spitfire the allies are in a good way. I wouldn't be in favour of repeating a/c in a release, or using up valuable spaces for minor variants due to a lack of imagination. We already have two similar ll-2s and two similar Peshkas which could have been streamlined to offer more variety and less repetition.

 

Also, from a more cynical/business-minded perspective, putting the C-47 into the standard set would a) lessen the risk of a cargo plane not being seen as financially viable (as a common forum complaint about the Ju-52 being a waste of dev time and not worth it goes), and would force mission makers and content creator to do something with a tool in everyone's arsenal which would broaden the appeal of non-combat roles somewhat. Especially out in the Far East, a theatre where logistics were of such importance. And people who already have a cargo a/c as standard and give it a shot might find a whole new side to the sim that they enjoy that they might otherwise not have realised.

I bought the Ju-52 as a curio, I wasn't expecting to get the enjoyment out of it that I have.

 

Just a thought.

[Ribbon]

Ok now when 2.012 is released and our simming greed became larger i'm interested what do you guys think when "pacific" theatre will be available for preorder?

December 2017

January 2018

February 2018....etc.

[InProgress]

Lol they just finished kuban map and bok is not even ready. I would bet they did not even started making pacific, anything more but on paper. I would say at least 2nd half of 2018. It's completely new theatre and eeverything must be made from scratch.

[Ribbon]

Lol they just finished kuban map and bok is not even ready. I would bet they did not even started making pacific, anything more but on paper. I would say at least 2nd half of 2018. It's completely new theatre and eeverything must be made from scratch.

i think BoK was most important step regarding  development of new tech toward PTO, yeah it is optimistic expect it in Q1 2018 but Q2 2018 is quite realistic!

Remember BoK tech devs often mention in future usage in Pacific (torpedos, sea tech, procedural generation and such) so in next two months they could already start PTO development since career and coop will be finished and few planes will be left to do regarding BoK.

Edited August 30, 2017 by EAF_T_Ribbon

[Venturi]

I hope they focus on battles with a significant modicum of land, and no turkey-shoots. Late 1942-43 sounds pretty good. Who doesn't want Lighnings, Airacobras, Warhawks, Havocs, Dauntlesses, and Wildcats mixing it up with Zeros, Tonys, Oscars, Vals, and Bettys? 

 

I can think of several campaigns which fit the criteria. Guadalcanal, New Guinea, Burma/China...

 

I keep editing, because I keep thinking of all the cool aircraft in this time period... 

Edited August 30, 2017 by Venturi

[Ropalcz]

I hope they focus on battles with a significant modicum of land, and no turkey-shoots. Late 1942-43 sounds pretty good. Who doesn't want Lighnings, Airacobras, Warhawks, Havocs, Dauntlesses, and Wildcats mixing it up with Zeros, Tonys, Oscars, Vals, and Bettys? 

 

I can think of several campaigns which fit the criteria. Guadalcanal, New Guinea, Burma/China...

 

I keep editing, because I keep thinking of all the cool aircraft in this time period... 

 

Considering China/Burma and Phillipines, P-51 would be a good idea 

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

i think BoK was most important step regarding  development of new tech toward PTO, yeah it is optimistic expect it in Q1 2018 but Q2 2018 is quite realistic!

Remember BoK tech devs often mention in future usage in Pacific (torpedos, sea tech, procedural generation and such) so in next two months they could already start PTO development since career and coop will be finished and few planes will be left to do regarding BoK.

Honestly ... I would expect map and ships being Q2-Q3 but in regard to aircraft we already have most of the technology in game. Getting a Zero and Wildcat in late Q1 doesnt seem all that improbable. Will see where it goes

[BlitzPig_EL]

Hmmm...  A Brewster Buffalo.

 

Add P40B and we could do Battle of Rangoon...

 

Oh yeah.

[216th_Jordan]

When BoM was out there was quite some time until work on the new theater began. Maybe there will be a phase of general game updates and maybe some collector planes. Ah, speculating is fun

[Gambit21]

When BoM was out there was quite some time until work on the new theater began. Maybe there will be a phase of general game updates and maybe some collector planes. Ah, speculating is fun

 

My speculation is no more valuable than yours, but my suspicion is that with the amount of work/new territory ahead - they won't dally too much.

I'm sure a vacation is in order.

[Ribbon]

Honestly ... I would expect map and ships being Q2-Q3 but in regard to aircraft we already have most of the technology in game. Getting a Zero and Wildcat in late Q1 doesnt seem all that improbable. Will see where it goes

Yeah i was thinking about announcment with ability to preorder PTO following with the release of the first plane  

When BoM was out there was quite some time until work on the new theater began. Maybe there will be a phase of general game updates and maybe some collector planes. Ah, speculating is fun

That would be great news too, anything we can spend money on

First i hope BoK will bring old glory to il2 box so more devs could be hired and current team have some rest.

[Venturi]

Consistency is key...

[ShamrockOneFive]

i think BoK was most important step regarding  development of new tech toward PTO, yeah it is optimistic expect it in Q1 2018 but Q2 2018 is quite realistic!

Remember BoK tech devs often mention in future usage in Pacific (torpedos, sea tech, procedural generation and such) so in next two months they could already start PTO development since career and coop will be finished and few planes will be left to do regarding BoK.

 

I'd agree with sometime in Q2 2018. Jason has said a few times that they are pushing pretty hard to get BoK done and technology started for both that and for Midway. I suspect there will need to be a bit of a lull for a while after release. Burnout is no good for anyone. Once they have a chance to rest up a bit I'm guessing they will then go full steam ahead on Midway and we may even see early access and possibly an aircraft by the end of Q2 or later.

 

Still... almost too early to think about it seriously. For fun right now yes but BoK is just having a pretty big moment so that's very exciting!

[Pharoah]

I look forward to the influx of new players once we crack into the Pacific region. Has anything been mentioned by the Devs WRT the pacific and whether they'd consider even doing a solomons campaign along with Midway? Otherwise, just midway (USN/IJN carriers with maybe Midway island and nothing else but sea) may not be as appealing in the long run (think replayability or MP). Atleast with a Solomons campaign you had the solomon islands (obviously) and the 'slot' which saw a lot of ship action combined with the defense of Guadalcanal and the famous 'Cactus Air Force'. Imagine the types of missions you could run either SP or MP. 

[Chief_Mouser]

I look forward to the influx of new players once we crack into the Pacific region. Has anything been mentioned by the Devs WRT the pacific and whether they'd consider even doing a solomons campaign along with Midway? Otherwise, just midway (USN/IJN carriers with maybe Midway island and nothing else but sea) may not be as appealing in the long run (think replayability or MP). Atleast with a Solomons campaign you had the solomon islands (obviously) and the 'slot' which saw a lot of ship action combined with the defense of Guadalcanal and the famous 'Cactus Air Force'. Imagine the types of missions you could run either SP or MP. 

 

Oh blimey. You have a lot of reading to catch up on. Every scenario of the Pacific war has been debated endlessly on here, right down to real nitty-gritty detail. At present, all that has been mooted by the devs is Midway then perhaps Okinawa, and they aren't answering questions about it. For the time being they are much too involved in getting Kuban finished.

Personally, I'm not sure about Midway bringing in the 'influx of new players'. The number of folk that are here compared to the 'old' Il-2 for the Eastern Front is very small, and I can't see Midway with just 10 aircraft and one map being an enormous draw either. Certainly not in the beginning. Pacific Fighters came with a huge amount of content, even if some of it was a bit iffy. Any US-only centred players are going to trickle in rather than come in a big rush; after all, a lot of them are here and waiting already.

Cheers.

[Pharoah]

True I haven't gone through all 9 pages but I'm just imagining exactly how its going to work (I spend 100% of my time flying MP online) with a Battle of Midway pack ie. USN vs IJN carriers. Thats it. its almost like Team DM. Part of the joy of BOS is the ability to attack multiple targets as part of an overall strategic plan eg. factories, trains, trucks, tanks, etc. Just having two sets of ships will be cool in the beginning but once you've sunk all the opposing ships? rinse and repeat? (I'm not trying to be facetious here - just practical). Whereas something like say a Battle of Guadalcanal or New Guinea or Philippines has a lot more varied gameplay with multiple targets and stuff. 

[Ribbon]

One word; CARRIERS!

Are they going to be in Midway, Okinawa, Guadalcanal, Kwai river or Lake Geneva i don't care!

[Pharoah]

yeah but are they going to be like in IL2 1946 ie. non controllable and fixed or moving in a set pattern? My point above is the midway battle is excellent but limited in terms of game play (edit: unless I'm missing something)

Edited August 31, 2017 by [ASOR]Pharoah

[Gambit21]

Don't worry about carrier movement.

There's already logic in place in the editor to alter course etc, I'm sure more will be added but even if nothing changes it won't be like 1946.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Sadly you are right Gambit.

 

It won't be like '46.

 

There will be one or two servers, maybe, and a handful of players. (Speaking of online here).

The bulk of players now are from Europe and Russia, and frankly are not terribly interested in the Pacific, which is OK, we all have our personal likes and dislikes.

 

So that will leave the small US and Aus/NZ/Pacific community trying to keep the Pacific not just populated, but alive at all.

 

Sorry to be a downer, but as much as I want to go to the Pacific, we need more than just Midway, and certainly don't need an immediate rush after Midway to 1945.

 

Oh, and a streamlined mission editor and easier hosting too...

[ShamrockOneFive]

I'm rather optimistic on the contrary. The series is growing and adding new players and winning back old ones that had forsaken it. It's a slow process but I see growth of interest in the series and the Pacific I think helped that along a fair bit.

[Field-Ops]

I read somewhere that there is a considerable size of Japanese fans interested in the Pacific theater once its been developed, so thats definitely a new market possibility. They just need the game localized to Kanji and that would need to be community driven i bet. Besides the main market for a midway campaign is mostly american and japanese people, europeans are a mixed bag of either people interested a bit or not at all. The way you get euro involvement is by adding RAAF and RAF allied planes. Midway might not start out with such aircraft, but much of their water tech is done so I imagine they only need to create midway island and the aleutians for maps. If their map making technology is mostly streamlined after making kuban they might be able to squeeze more planes into midway's timeframe.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Field-Ops

[Pharoah]

I have a few guys who aren't interested in the eastern front but focused on the western allies (USAAF, RAF, RAAF) so would definitely jump on a pacific, med, N African or western european focus. 

[Royal_Flight]

All it would take is adding Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm skins for the Martlet (Wildcat) and Avenger*, and maybe a mod via the unlock system for clipped wings for the Corsair* and tailhook for the Spitfire Vb to give us a Seafire mk Ib and that will do for the short-term. Then RAAF skins for the Kittyhawk, Spitfire, Catalina* and Buffalo* and Commonwealth players should be kept engaged enough for the time being, until such times as a full British Pacific Fleet or RAAF/Commonwealth a/c set is added, or we switch theatres to China/Burma/India or Western Europe/Mediterranean/North Africa.

 

*if included in BoMidway

 

To be honest though I'm just as keen to fly Japanese a/c, and carrier ops and anti-shipping missions will be engaging enough as it is. So I do t foresee a great deal of difficulty either attracting new players, or worries about splitting the community.

[Aap]

 

 

I read somewhere that there is a considerable size of Japanese fans interested in the Pacific theater once its been developed, so thats definitely a new market possibility. They just need the game localized to Kanji and that would need to be community driven i bet. Besides the main market for a midway campaign is mostly american and japanese people, europeans are a mixed bag of either people interested a bit or not at all. 

 

That is interesting, because there did not seem to be big player base from Japan in the old IL2 1946. Maybe this new game will be marketed differently in Japan, I don't know. Anyway, the time difference between Japan and Central Europe is 7 hours, time difference between Japan and West Coast America is 8 hours. Not ideal for balanced online gameplay. 

In general, I think that navy aviation is very interesting with carrier takeoffs and landings and different kind of navigation, but once you have learned all that the actual gameplay would get repetitve fast, if there is just a tiny island and some ships to attack. So I also think that they should add some kind of land based map also, which would also seem logical as Midway map should not take too long to complete and even BoS and BoM games with big land maps came with small extra maps.

[sniperton]

So I also think that they should add some kind of land based map also, which would also seem logical as Midway map should not take too long to complete and even BoS and BoM games with big land maps came with small extra maps.

 

Exactly my thoughts. Midway map is only good for an excellent scripted campaign consisting of 6 to 8 missions at most. It can be made re-playable by introducing some changing conditions, though. I mean the historical outcome of the battle depended (1) on the early recon of the Japanese fleet and (2) on the delayed recon of the American fleet. Delayed recon of the Japanese fleet combined with the early recon of the American fleet would give a different mission path while remaining historically adequate.

US recon: undelayed; IJN recon: undelayed (several carriers sunk on both sides)

US recon: undelayed; IJN recon: delayed (historical)

US recon: undelayed; IJN recon: failed (Yorktown survives)

US recon: delayed; IJN recon: undelayed (Midway defenses wiped out, carrier losses on the US side)

US recon: delayed; IJN recon: delayed (Midway defenses wiped out, carrier losses on both sides)

US recon: delayed; IJN recon: failed (?)

 

 

On the other hand, we definitely need a larger land map for longer, non-scripted campaigns, both SP and MP. Preferably one which would attract both our Aussie and NZ and Japanese friends to populate it in their own time zone.  

Edited September 1, 2017 by sniperton

[xvii-Dietrich]

That is interesting, because there did not seem to be big player base from Japan in the old IL2 1946. Maybe this new game will be marketed differently in Japan, I don't know. Anyway, the time difference between Japan and Central Europe is 7 hours, time difference between Japan and West Coast America is 8 hours. Not ideal for balanced online gameplay.

 

Marketing will be a delicate challenge. I recall the hostile response that the film "Eternal Zero" got from all sides.

 

I do not think we should all count on a huge surge in numbers with the introduction of a far east market.

[Jade_Monkey]

I dont live in Russia therefore i can't like BOS. Is that the logic being applied here with Japan and the Pacific?

 

I find it a bit absurd.

[Klaue]

All i know is if they where to offer pre-order Midway right now,I would be on it like a bum on a bologna sandwich. Enough said.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Well JM, we are talking about human beings here, so applying logic at all is dodgy at best, yes?

 

I know of at least two groups out there that used to fly '46 that won't fly the current sim until they can fly with no Russian aircraft or maps.  I know it sounds crazy to those of us that have been here, and with the old sim, all along, but they are out there, and they were major competitors and content creators in the old sim.

 

People like what they like, and there are more than a few that have no use for the Eastern Front.

[Jade_Monkey]

Im not saying they dont exist, unfortunately nothing seems 'crazy' anymore seeing how bizarre day to day has become. However, we probably should not make major decisions based on those groups of people.

[sniperton]

we probably should not make major decisions based on those groups of people.

 

IMO it wouldn't be a decision based on them, only a decision taking them into consideration. There are a dozen other reasons why New Guinea or the Solomons could be nominated and could compliment Midway better than Okinawa. One may go through this thread and list the pros and cons brought up.

[FuriousMeow]

It took over 8 years of development for '46 to become '46. Il-2 series was marginally popular online after Pacific Fighters. I don't get the constant comparison to '46 when this series is still early in it's development.

[Gambit21]

Exactly my thoughts. Midway map is only good for an excellent scripted campaign consisting of 6 to 8 missions at most. It can be made re-playable by introducing some changing conditions, though. I mean the historical outcome of the battle depended (1) on the early recon of the Japanese fleet and (2) on the delayed recon of the American fleet. Delayed recon of the Japanese fleet combined with the early recon of the American fleet would give a different mission path while remaining historically adequate.

US recon: undelayed; IJN recon: undelayed (several carriers sunk on both sides)

US recon: undelayed; IJN recon: delayed (historical)

US recon: undelayed; IJN recon: failed (Yorktown survives)

US recon: delayed; IJN recon: undelayed (Midway defenses wiped out, carrier losses on the US side)

US recon: delayed; IJN recon: delayed (Midway defenses wiped out, carrier losses on both sides)

US recon: delayed; IJN recon: failed (?)

 

 

On the other hand, we definitely need a larger land map for longer, non-scripted campaigns, both SP and MP. Preferably one which would attract both our Aussie and NZ and Japanese friends to populate it in their own time zone.  

 

There is also simply a roll of the dice element to who's torpedoes and bombs scored and who's did not.

Even with historical recon, the battle could have looked quite different.

However the success or failure, or delay of recon flights and altering these from history is nevertheless one of the best ways to present "what if" scenarios.

 

Further "what if" scenarios include the Aleutians force turning and steaming toward Midway earlier, arriving at Midway in time to alter the battle as we know it, or never being

sent to the Aleutians at all and instead arriving with Kido Butai.

 

We can then model an successful invasion of Midway, a depleted American carrier force and an uphill battle re-taking Midway...as an example.

This fight could go on for more than a few days with operations over Midway itself, and cat and mouse games far reaching over the water.

 

What I do think is that to get the most out of this campaign, there will need to be both 'career' campaigns (single pilot, single aircraft type)

and 'global' campaigns. Both for historical and non-historical scenarios. Career is obvious so no need to explain that one.

'Global' means you experience different missions, flown by different aircraft types, some of them with overlapping time frames. I think this is especially useful

for the historical scenario. So you might fly a Zero CAP at 8:45 am, then a Val mission that starts at 9:05 am, then a Kate mission, then back to Zeke, etc.

Same for the American side of course.

Thus experiencing the entire battle progression, or as much as possible.

 

A single Wildcat pilot for instance, or a single Val pilot only flew a handful of missions historically, so no career to speak of there and not much perspective on the battle.

Thus I think the 'global' type campaign and "what if" scenarios where the battle can be drawn out (thus more compelling for a career) are the most promising.

 

That said, nothing wrong with experiencing the historical battle as a Val or Wildcat pilot and flying those missions either...that's important and should be represented.

The point is choices/ and a range of possible experiences according to preference.

[EAF_Starfire]

I hope that they will implement Directional beacons.

[Gambit21]

We have them already - they're stationary though.