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Battle of Okinawa


Riderocket
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We all know real reason why Japanese were worst and lost. They did not have worst planes or bad pilots, they just drank some vodka before every mission and since they were small they got drunk fast so they were flying badly. Also there was no kamikaze,it was just wasted pilots crashing here and there. Then government wanted to hide that fact.

 

P.s I am gonna fly as axis and I am gonna do full realism if you know what I mean ;)

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=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

All depends on what period you will consider. 1943 score of Hellcat units was not impressive at all and lower than F4U units, Hellcats got most of their kills in summer 1944 - summer 1945 when neither Japanese pilots nor their commanders were up to task. But despite its amazing record, in 1943-early 1944 period Hellcat failed to impress Japanese pilots. At least that the impression I have from their memoirs. 

 

F6F-3 vs A6M5a would be a very balanced match. 

 

 

I think this was the key, also. Sakai, for example, was able to outmaneuver the F6Fs in his supposedly inferior A6M, fighting alone against 15 of them!!

Pilots were one thing. Other is the fact that for the most part U.S. Navy used Big Blue fleet to mass largest naval air force and Japanese were often vastly outnumbered. There are number of factors that should be consider in aircraft records. Machine is only a part of them. 

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Indeed.

 

For example, one of the guys we used to fly with and I had a 1 v 1 in the old sim.  Him in his F6F and me in an A6M5.

I repeatedly shot him down, why?  Because he thought that "extending" was just turning away from me for a couple seconds, having read that the F6F was so much faster than the Zero.  He also thought he could out turn me because the Hellcat could turn with the A6M... I guess he didn't read the part about that being for half a turn.

 

If he had flown it like he flew his FW 190 he would have done a whole lot better, but he was a victim of the "Hype of the Blue Planes", and thought it really was an instant win just because he was flying one.

 

I did a TON of flying in the old sim, much of it in the Pacific, and a little over half of that in the Zeke.

Overconfident USN pilots were my bread and butter.

 

I can recall exactly TWO times that the opposing pilot flew his Hellcat or Corsair, or P-38 in such a way that I could't touch him. Twice...that's it.

The rest of the time they made the classic mistake, even if they knew better, they still made it.

It's the "I know I'm not supposed to turn with this guy, but I'll get away with it" or "Just a few turns"...or maybe just thinking they aircraft, or they were just that good.

Not sure, I just know I'd sucker them into my fight almost every time.

 

Twice I ended up alone and outnumbered in a CoOp, once 3 Corsairs to my 1 Zeke, the other time 4 Hellcats to my 1 Zeke, both times against squads.

The 3-1 occasion,  I splashed all 3 in short order. That wasn't a big deal, they were not that good and they were trying to turn with me on the deck.

 

 

The 4-1 fight lasted about 30 minutes, I started higher, and after they spotted me I was spiral climbing above the 4 guys, diving down to take a pass at one or two, a short fight, then using my remaining energy to resume my climb with them slowly gaining on me.

Ended WAY up, climbing until I couldn't anymore and then it was a swirling fight.

 

In they end they got me, I didn't kill any of them but damaged 2 before I had to bail out - that was a blast.

 

 

On the other hand I would fly around in the Hellcat and Corsair with aplomb...which is because I didn't care about getting kills, they came naturally when I treated my online life like my real life.

It's the NEED to get a kill that get's pilots killed. And that's the thing with this Pacific dynamic, both sides are so different, but both sides are easy to survive with if you fly to it's strength and don't treat

your virtual life like a virtual life.

Easily the most interesting match-ups I experienced in 46. Late war match-ups with say the George, less so.

 

I tended to avoid the George since I felt more vulnerable, on even ground with the Hellcats etc, I'd lost my 'turn on a dime, follow me to the deck if you dare' ability.

Ki-61 was fun though.

 

All this said, the Zeke was able to dive a little faster than it should, and the .50's of the Grummans (and everything else) were woefully under-modeled, as was the performance of the Hellcat and Corsair IMHO.

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If we get Okinawa, I bet someone will make a server or mission where unlimited AI Japanese Kamakazies fly and hit a large allied fleet, with you trying to down as many Kamakazies as possible. There was a similar mission in the old Il2, I think. Besides, I don't need to kill yoyr Zekes in the air. I will just stoge over you airfields in a Seafire and down you as you take off.

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If we get Okinawa, I bet someone will make a server or mission where unlimited AI Japanese Kamakazies fly and hit a large allied fleet, with you trying to down as many Kamakazies as possible. There was a similar mission in the old Il2, I think. Besides, I don't need to kill yoyr Zekes in the air. I will just stoge over you airfields in a Seafire and down you as you take off.

 

What airfields?

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=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

What airfields?

Pretty much this.

 

Good luck flying Seafire from Okinawa to Kyushu. With that kind of range you will end up in Davy Jones locker before you even see the southern tip of the Home Islands. 

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I doubt the developers will create a map of the whole area from Okinawa to Kyuchu, but the Japanese had forward airfields on the Sakishima and Amami Islands. I guess these islands will be part of the games Okinawa map.

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=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

Yes, but none of these was a base with assigned units. They were used as forward airfields in case of emergency landings or refueling. Those were rather limited facilities. In this case Formosa offers far superior set of airfields. 

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=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

Since Okinawa is in plans it inevitably leads to an introduction of N1K2-J. Here is a recent finding, a footage in color showing a tiny bit of combat over Amami-Oshima:

 

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=EXPEND=Dendro

Realistically, we need to make it past 2017 and Kuban. Jason said the future of this sim is in the balance and if they don't get enough support, we might not make it to the pacific at all. I suppose its fun to speculate and dream though.

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Realistically, we need to make it past 2017 and Kuban. Jason said the future of this sim is in the balance and if they don't get enough support, we might not make it to the pacific at all. I suppose its fun to speculate and dream though.

 

It is fun to speculate, and I also think it's okay to think about where you want to go in the longer term ... even if you're not totally sure that you're ever going to get there. Personally I've become quite hopeful on BoX. I feel it's come a long way recently, and the dev team seems to be making great progress. I think the new VR support is great and will hopefully draw in a lot of players. I used to be primarily based in DCS, but since the VR support was added BoX has been getting all my attention.

 

For what it's worth I know quite a few people in the DCS community who would very happily move if they had access to classic US planes like the P-51, P-47 or P-38. It's sad but the Eastern front does put off a lot of the US market. It's one of the reasons I really liked Hiromachi's suggestion of Battle of New Guinea. I think P-47 and P-38 would be a winning combo with a lot of the people I know from DCS. Although one of the things to be said for Battle of Okinawa is that you could reasonably sneak the P-51 into it, that plane is insanely popular. The other thing that will help a lot I think is fixing some of the known FM oddities in BoX, such as the roll-yaw coupling. I hear a lot of comments about that.

Edited by Tomsk
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=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

Realistically, we need to make it past 2017 and Kuban. Jason said the future of this sim is in the balance and if they don't get enough support, we might not make it to the pacific at all. I suppose its fun to speculate and dream though.

To be honest I'm not afraid of 2017 and Kuban at all. If anything, this game seems to be more alive then ever. Been here since game release, saw ups and downs, my observation is that we have more people around, including some new people. I have managed to drag a few old buddies from war thunder to the Il-2 and they are awaiting Pacific. In last 8 months this game has changed dramatically and I do not find a reason to be concerned about future. 

 

 

 

For what it's worth I know quite a few people in the DCS community who would very happily move if they had access to classic US planes like the P-51, P-47 or P-38. It's sad but the Eastern front does put off a lot of the US market. It's one of the reasons I really liked Hiromachi's suggestion of Battle of New Guinea. I think P-47 and P-38 would be a winning combo with a lot of the people I know from DCS. Although one of the things to be said for Battle of Okinawa is that you could reasonably sneak the P-51 into it, that plane is insanely popular. The other thing that will help a lot I think is fixing some of the known FM oddities in BoX, such as the roll-yaw coupling. I hear a lot of comments about that.

Thanks, I really am not a fan of Okinawa and would like to have either Leyte, New Guinea or at least Burma instead. But I heard that Okinawa is popular among devs and Ru community so we will be going there eventually.  

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 But I heard that Okinawa is popular among devs and Ru community so we will be going there eventually.  

 

I wonder why? And do the Russian community really have such a different idea of gameplay than the rest of us? Since Jason took control he has gradually been rectifying the strange (to the rest of us) decisions that the all-Russian team made. No co-op mode... No linear career mode... etc. The original team didn't seem to get what it had been that made Il-2 46 so popular. So is the Russian idea of what makes a great flight sim that much different? Anyone here with a foot in both camps got any idea?

Cheers.

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Rolling_Thunder

Maybe, and this is pure speculation on my part, that there will only be 2 pacific theatres. 1 midway, early war and 2 Okinawa late war. Those 2 theatres will cover pretty much all there needs to be for carrier based aircraft. Maps covering other parts of the pacific can be introduced whenever outside of theatre development as the aircraft and ship assets are already in place. Ground based aircraft will I'm sure be available from other theatres, hopefully China/India/Burma and the Mediterranean. 

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=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

I wonder why? And do the Russian community really have such a different idea of gameplay than the rest of us? Since Jason took control he has gradually been rectifying the strange (to the rest of us) decisions that the all-Russian team made. No co-op mode... No linear career mode... etc. The original team didn't seem to get what it had been that made Il-2 46 so popular. So is the Russian idea of what makes a great flight sim that much different? Anyone here with a foot in both camps got any idea?

Cheers.

I dont think you give enough credit to Russians, after all its them who started this particular game and developed it. It's Russians who build foundations, walls and roof for what we have today. I agree, not all decisions were good and mistakes were made but thats why we have Jason now. 

 

 

Maybe, and this is pure speculation on my part, that there will only be 2 pacific theatres. 1 midway, early war and 2 Okinawa late war. Those 2 theatres will cover pretty much all there needs to be for carrier based aircraft. Maps covering other parts of the pacific can be introduced whenever outside of theatre development as the aircraft and ship assets are already in place. Ground based aircraft will I'm sure be available from other theatres, hopefully China/India/Burma and the Mediterranean. 

It's quite possible to have the two only, but then choice of Okinawa is less suitable than ever - it puts out of equation Japanese fleet and all the changes that happened since Midway, Japanese fleet since June 1942 changed completely so it would be a big mistake not to bring any of this. Battle of Philippine Sea or Leyte would be more suitable. 

Also, Okinawa wont cover any carried based aircraft for the Japanese, maybe except for the Zero. Other than that for the Japanese it was a land based campaign and you'd rather see land based aircraft - Ki-84, Ki-100, N1K2-J, Ki-67 or P1Y. With Japanese there is always Army and the Navy, so twice as many aircraft to choose from. 

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As long as I get a Devastator and Helldiver I'll be ok. I am as ignorant now about the Japanese side as I was before about the Soviet side. I look forward to educating myself.

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I like the joy of discovering the new. Found that with LaGG-3 and MiG-3.

I flew the Zeke for the first time only because that side was short pilots in a co-op. It became my favorite AC.

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BlitzPig_EL

I do hope that we will eventually have Japanese Army aircraft types.  I have always preferred them to the IJN types over all.

 

The Ki 61 in particular.

 

album5052.jpg

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I dont think you give enough credit to Russians,

 

 

 

Not at all. The original Il-2 was developed by Russians, so was Rise of Flight and now BoX, and all here should be eternally grateful. I'm just curious if there is a different mindset among Russian flight simmers in what they perceive as good gameplay.

Cheers.

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I do hope that we will eventually have Japanese Army aircraft types.  I have always preferred them to the IJN types over all.

 

The Ki 61 in particular.

 

album5052.jpg

 

It's a neat aircraft, the downside is that everything about it would have to be a guess on the part of the Devs more or less I think.

Whereas with Zekes and Oscars there are flying examples and much more info.

 

Hiro might know if there's flight data etc on the Ki 61 anywhere.

 

I had a great furball CoOp that I made and hosted now and then back in the day...Ki61'a and P-38's. Air start, 12 on 12 fur-ball in the clouds.

That was good times.

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BlitzPig_EL

At least two are being restored in New Zealand, and I have seen quite a bit of info on them over the years.

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=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

 

 

Hiro might know if there's flight data etc on the Ki 61 anywhere.

I have a piloting procedures for Ki-61, construction and maintenance manual, engine manual and power curves, detailed report on its fuel injection system, plus a few other, smaller things like details for Ho-103 machine cannon.

 

In case of airfoils it's pretty much a modified NACA design, with  NACA 2R116 at root and NACA 24009 at the tip. As usual from my point of view greatest issue would be assuming data for the propeller. 

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I do like the idea of the pacific theater, in VR, can't wait to try catching the wire, but one thing that does worry me though, is that sometimes in BoS /BoM I struggle to find the airfield unless I am directly over it with icons off. How the hell do I find a carrier after a sortie, that is on the move ?

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Riderocket

I do like the idea of the pacific theater, in VR, can't wait to try catching the wire, but one thing that does worry me though, is that sometimes in BoS /BoM I struggle to find the airfield unless I am directly over it with icons off. How the hell do I find a carrier after a sortie, that is on the move ?

There was a feature in IL2 1946 where the tower tells you the direction to fly to get back to your air field / carrier via radio.

 

Maybe they could add more radio stuff in this sim, like 1946 and CloD.

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It will be in the middle of a bunch of ship wakes and probably the only things on the ocean surface for miles and miles around. Unless you spot enemy ships instead lol.

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ShamrockOneFive

I wonder why? And do the Russian community really have such a different idea of gameplay than the rest of us? Since Jason took control he has gradually been rectifying the strange (to the rest of us) decisions that the all-Russian team made. No co-op mode... No linear career mode... etc. The original team didn't seem to get what it had been that made Il-2 46 so popular. So is the Russian idea of what makes a great flight sim that much different? Anyone here with a foot in both camps got any idea?

Cheers.

 

Curious about the Okinawa being popular in the Russian community. Nonetheless... very interesting and excited to see Okinawa in a couple of years. I think we have to understand the constraints that the team had to deal with in its first couple of years. They were basically given 24 months to build a whole new World War II sim. They had an existing engine and experienced developers sure... that made things easier. Still, they had a lot to do and not much time to do it in. There were some questionable design decisions but overall they gave us as good as they could for the time and we got a pretty damn good product from Battle of Stalingrad. It felt a little empty but its since grown as we all know and its growing so much more now.

 

Jason has done some great things to rectify many of the issues we've been having and has charted his own course too. Evolution is good. Sometimes good things come out of taking a bit of a different course.

 

I do hope that we will eventually have Japanese Army aircraft types.  I have always preferred them to the IJN types over all.

 

The Ki 61 in particular.

 

album5052.jpg

 

Oh yes. I'm still very much hoping for the Ki-61 and Ki-100 at some point. Easily two of my favourites from the Japanese lineup.

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I would really want an expansion of Defence of the Homeland, but I doubt that will ever happen. Something about head on attack with a Ki-45 屠龍 against a B-29 just works for me. 

 

c12ae80f09ef31937a1eabdb37fa45e5.jpg

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You know Guadalcanal is going to be one of the expansions.

Particularly as the P-40 and P-39 can be used there as well.

 

Excellent I didn't know about that. Just fantastic. Hip Hip hurrahh. 

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InProgress

I would like greece and creta :]

About pacific my dream is to see invasions on islands. Where you see fleet and soldiers on the beach. I have seen it on some old game, battlestation pacific. Boats were going to the beaches and then soldiers were running out of them, you could even shoot them. I think it would be possible, especially that pacific will be in year or 2, then more expansions later so mabye technology will get better and more money for devs so they will make something like this, at least for single player.

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=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

Oh yes. I'm still very much hoping for the Ki-61 and Ki-100 at some point. Easily two of my favourites from the Japanese lineup.

Ki-61 can compete with Grummans, same for the Ki-100. But anything like a P-51 D or P-47 N will wipe the floor with Hien. It would feel much better in New Guinea with early Thunderbolt and Lightning.

 

 

Maybe they could add more radio stuff in this sim, like 1946 and CloD.

And external fuel tanks. 

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Riderocket

Oh yes. I'm still very much hoping for the Ki-61 and Ki-100 at some point. Easily two of my favourites from the Japanese lineup.

Don't forget the Ki-84! :)

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ShamrockOneFive

Don't forget the Ki-84! :)

 

I have confidence that the Ki-84 will be one of the key types in the Battle of Okinawa release. It's not my favourite but I'm sure it'll be there as its fairly important to have there for that battle. It's also one of the few Japanese types that really matches up to a late war American fighter.

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=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

In the jobs section they are looking for a good translator for Japanese documents and such.

They're going more than one to be honest. I used to work for WT reporting some issues as a tech mod and often my good friend from Japan translated documents and data for me, it took plenty of time and effort since it's a pre war Japanese, some symbols differ and some are just very rare this days. 

 

 

I have confidence that the Ki-84 will be one of the key types in the Battle of Okinawa release. It's not my favourite but I'm sure it'll be there as its fairly important to have there for that battle. It's also one of the few Japanese types that really matches up to a late war American fighter.

I still would take N1K2-J over Hayate. 

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ShamrockOneFive

They're going more than one to be honest. I used to work for WT reporting some issues as a tech mod and often my good friend from Japan translated documents and data for me, it took plenty of time and effort since it's a pre war Japanese, some symbols differ and some are just very rare this days. 

 

 

I still would take N1K2-J over Hayate. 

 

The N1K2-J is the other of my favourite Japanese World War II fighters. I was also pretty excited that the earlier N1K1-J showed up in IL-2: 1946.

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