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I am by far looking more forward to Okinawa then Midway! (Ki-61 and Ki-84 anyone?)

 

But I've been trying to research what planes were used during the invasion of Okinawa, so far I've got.

 

Japanese Army used Ki-61s, Ki-84s and Ki-100s.

 

Japanese Navy used A6M5s.

 

USN used F6Fs and F4Us.

 

USAAF used P-47s, P-51s, A-20s, B24s, B-17s and B-29s.

 

FFA used Seafires.

 

As you see, there's not alot of information on Bombers, I only found a little bit of information on USAAF Bombers, but no USNavy, FFA, Or Japanese Bombers at all? (I suppose they were just all kamikaze fighters?)

 

Anyone else know what other planes we might see during Okinawa? Would love to hear about it :)

Edited by Riderocket
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Bombers? Definitely a mix of aircraft here.

 

The Ki-67 "Peggy" was one of the last mass produced Japanese bombers used by both Navy and Army air services (a rarity). It was fast, well armed, had the ability to carry air launched torpedoes, bombs, and was used as a guided missile carrier (prototype) and as a kamikaze aircraft.

 

The TBM-3 Avenger was a late model version of the same aircraft used first during the Battle of Midway. Tough, capable, and well used by the US Navy throughout the rest of the war. This is a pretty key aircraft if we have the Yamato super battleship to attack. This happened during the Battle of Okinawa so it stands to reason that it is possible.

 

The SB2C-5 Helldiver was the SBD Dauntless' replacement. It had a ton of teething problems that were mostly sorted out (as much as possible) by the -5 variant. Both of them operated together at times too: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/TBMs_and_SB2Cs_dropping_bombs.jpg

 

Other bombers were definitely in theater but probably out of scope like the B-24 and the B-29. Its possible that the A-20G could factor in depending on the timeline although they were being retired and only a single group arrived at Okinawa. Somewhat interestingly the A-26, its really awesome replacement, was entering service around this time too. Both of those fit the IL-2 engine tactical operations really well. TBH I doubt we'll see them but its a possibility!

 

Also you forgot to mention the N1K and the J2M3 - not sure specifically about their Okinawa presence but they were definitely types around at that point. Also I'd be curious if the devs go for the Ki-61 or... the Ki-100. Both fit in the timeline and the unit based on the northern end of Kyushu were converting from Ki-61 to Ki-100. The Ki-84 is a strong contender for being a type here.

Edited by ShamrockOneFive
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I hope they change their mind and don't go for Okinawa at all. That air "battle" is just hopeless as basis for a combat flight sim.

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I hope they change their mind and don't go for Okinawa at all. That air "battle" is just hopeless as basis for a combat flight sim.

 

Agreed. I can't see the logic of it.

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The problem with Okinawa is that there are a lot of different planes involved... the current 8 + 2 plane set up wouldn't be enough, for example I can easily have around 10 planes per side, and that without messing with different subvariants:

Allies:

P-51D
P-38L
P-47D
B-25J
F4U
F6F-5
SB2C
TBF
Seafire III L
Firefly

 

Japanese:
A6M5
N1K2
J2M
Ki-61
Ki-84
D4Y3
B6N
G4M2
Ki-67
(Ki-43-II)
(P1Y)
(Ki-45)

(Ki-46)

(Ki-100)
(Ki-44-II)

 

Plus there is the fact that the Japanese used a lot of their older planes for kamikaze attacks (Ki-27, early Ki-43s, D3A, etc)...

Maybe a better expansion after Midway could be a mid-war New Guinea, or China/Burma, Guadalcanal also sounds interesting. In another thread someone talked about Invasion of Italy, that would be nice as well, with later Italian fighters, 109 G-6, 190 A-6, early-mid P-38/P-47, maybe a late P-40, Spit mk VIII or early Seafire. BoK's Spit mk V, 109 G-4 and 190 A-5 would also fit there.

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I am by far looking more forward to Okinawa then Midway! (Ki-61 and Ki-84 anyone?)

But I've been trying to research what planes were used during the invasion of Okinawa, so far I've got.

Japanese Army used Ki-61s, Ki-84s and Ki-100s.

Japanese Navy used A6M5s.

USN used F6Fs and F4Us.

USMC used P-47s, P-51s, A-20s, B24s, B-17s and B-29s.

FFA used Seafires.

As you see, there's not alot of information on Bombers, I only found a little bit of information on USMC Bombers, but no USNavy, FFA, Or Japanese Bombers at all? (I suppose they were just all kamikaze fighters?)

Anyone else know what other planes we might see during Okinawa? Would love to hear about it :)

All the aircraft you have listed as USMC were USAAF.

Uncle Sams Misguided Children would have flown navy types.

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Okinawa is a waste of time for BoX. 

Once the American fleet attacked there were no Japanese aircraft based there; they didn't have any carriers left either so any aircraft encountered were coming down the 650km from the Japanese mainland or transiting through from the SW. The only possible scenario, with the likely size of map we will get, is waves of airstart kamikaze against a vastly superior US air force, which hardly leads to good gameplay.

There is so much else to choose from in the Pacific; let's hope that whatever follows Midway isn't Okinawa..

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You know Guadalcanal is going to be one of the expansions.

Particularly as the P-40 and P-39 can be used there as well.

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All this negativity towards okinawa. To be honest I don't see any difference between Stalingrad and Moscow. At least with okinawa after midway the planeset would be vastly different compared to Moscow after Stalingrad. The gameplay between Moscow and Stalingrad is exactly the same. At least with kuban there's some variety with aircraft and the map. The gameplay between Okinawa and midway is vastly different if one is talking about the aircraft technology. I'm looking forward to it but I doubt we'll see any BPF aircraft or ships unfortunately. It appears the British and commonwealth are the forgotten combatants in the BoX franchise. We get 1 spit hmmmm. I'm hoping to see the CBI theatre represented at some stage but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Edited by Rolling_Thunder
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The problem with Okinawa is that there are a lot of different planes involved... the current 8 + 2 plane set up wouldn't be enough, for example I can easily have around 10 planes per side, and that without messing with different subvariants:

 

Allies:

P-51D

P-38L

P-47D

B-25J

F4U

F6F-5

SB2C

TBF

Seafire III L

Firefly

 

Japanese:

A6M5

N1K2

J2M

Ki-61

Ki-84

D4Y3

B6N

G4M2

Ki-67

(Ki-43-II)

(P1Y)

(Ki-45)

(Ki-46)

(Ki-100)

(Ki-44-II)

 

Plus there is the fact that the Japanese used a lot of their older planes for kamikaze attacks (Ki-27, early Ki-43s, D3A, etc)...

 

Maybe a better expansion after Midway could be a mid-war New Guinea, or China/Burma, Guadalcanal also sounds interesting. In another thread someone talked about Invasion of Italy, that would be nice as well, with later Italian fighters, 109 G-6, 190 A-6, early-mid P-38/P-47, maybe a late P-40, Spit mk VIII or early Seafire. BoK's Spit mk V, 109 G-4 and 190 A-5 would also fit there.

 

 

at least campaign would be easy to create if you take kamikaze for main character , single mission campaign  :)

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I think some people seem to have this vision in their head that Okinawa was all kamikaze attacks by Japan's air forces (because that's what the literature focuses on). The Americans lost 768 aircraft during the Battle of Okinawa. Surely they weren't all shot down by flak.


All this negativity towards okinawa. To be honest I don't see any difference between Stalingrad and Moscow. At least with okinawa after midway the planeset would be vastly different compared to Moscow after Stalingrad. The gameplay between Moscow and Stalingrad is exactly the same. At least with kuban there's some variety with aircraft and the map. The gameplay between Okinawa and midway is vastly different if one is talking about the aircraft technology. I'm looking forward to it but I doubt we'll see any BPF aircraft or ships unfortunately. It appears the British and commonwealth are the forgotten combatants in the BoX franchise. We get 1 spit hmmmm. I'm hoping to see the CBI theatre represented at some stage but I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

When asked about the BPF Jason was not opposed to it.

 

I theorized that the Seafire or Firefly could be a Premium aircraft and that the Corsair, Hellcat, and Avenger from the USN part of the pack would fit in very well with the BPF.

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I think some people seem to have this vision in their head that Okinawa was all kamikaze attacks by Japan's air forces (because that's what the literature focuses on). The Americans lost 768 aircraft during the Battle of Okinawa. Surely they weren't all shot down by flak.

 

When asked about the BPF Jason was not opposed to it.

 

I theorized that the Seafire or Firefly could be a Premium aircraft and that the Corsair, Hellcat, and Avenger from the USN part of the pack would fit in very well with the BPF.

it was a joke about kamikaze!

i don't know statistics about Okinawa or airplane types in it so i have nothing against Okinawa theatre as long it is Pacific with carriers in it. I'll leave that decision to devs and you guys more familiar with it.

Cheers!

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I really think New Guinea is a better choice. There are just so many stories to be told there.

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You guys like I keep saying I'll take that Okinawa map and build a killer faux Solomons campaign with it.

From Watchtower forward.

We'll already have the entire plane set...just need the Betty.

 

I'll also need 2 land bases on each end of the map - so hopefully some of the smaller islands are included and land bases are placed

even if they were not there in reality.

Give me those 2 things and I'm good to go. Just like the old days, we'll take what we have and make it work.

 

 

(a Zeke float plane would't hurt either)

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All the aircraft you have listed as USMC were USAAF.

Uncle Sams Misguided Children would have flown navy types.

Ah, I originally had it as USAAF but i thought I had it wrong, lol

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I really think New Guinea is a better choice. There are just so many stories to be told there.

Agreed! Papua new Guinea is my favourite to fly! P-39s and P-40s vs Ki-43s and A6Ms and A-20s B-17s G4Ms etc etc :)

 

Or maybe its just because I'm from NZ and its the closest we got to WW2 lol.

i feel really stupid, did i miss something? where did they announce that okinawa was going to be developed?

When they announced Battle of Kuban Edited by Riderocket

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I'd say: If they want Okinawa, yes ok, but I hope they do new guinea before that. :biggrin: Otherwise we would also have a 3 year gap in the planeset.

 

One thing I don't like about Okinawa is that it does not offer too much for diverse campaigns for both sides. Actually it makes me feel a bit fearsome if such a theater would work out financially. But I could be wrong (I'd hope so if this sim goes that way).

 

Planes of that time are surely interesting though!

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I can summon a tiny bit of enthusiasm for the other Pacific ideas, but Okinawa is a definite miss for me, whether they put the RN in or not.  No point is simulating such a mismatch. 

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I hope. they will sell enough BoK to continue the series with Midway. The discussion beyond is a bit pointless at the moment. 

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On Youtube there is great Documentation about ex Pilots how served in the N1K1 in defending Okinawa.

From the Plane Setup could be much more intressting, because the JPN Airforces pushed finially Planes in Service they could conquer the Hellcats and Corsairs.

Fighting with a Zero with 1100 HP against Corsair with to 2000 HP Break Horse Power in 1943-44 sounds not realy Promising.

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If i am flying the whisler of death, it sounds promsing. Very promising.

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I think some people seem to have this vision in their head that Okinawa was all kamikaze attacks by Japan's air forces (because that's what the literature focuses on). The Americans lost 768 aircraft during the Battle of Okinawa. Surely they weren't all shot down by flak.

 

 

Also quoting Wikipedia:

 

Japanese air opposition had been relatively light during the first few days after the landings. However, on 6 April the expected air reaction began with an attack by 400 planes from Kyushu. Periodic heavy air attacks continued through April. During the period 26 March-30 April, twenty American ships were sunk and 157 damaged by enemy action. For their part, by 30 April the Japanese had lost more than 1,100 planes to Allied naval forces alone.[30] Between 6 April and 22 June, the Japanese flew 1,465 kamikaze aircraft in large-scale attacks from Kyushu, 185 individual kamikaze sorties from Kyushu, and 250 individual kamikaze sorties from Formosa.

 

Kyushu - 650 km distance

Formosa (Taiwan) - 650 km distance

 

Aircraft losses over the three-month period were 768 U.S. planes, including those bombing the Kyushu airfields launching kamikazes. Combat losses were 458, and the other 310 were operational accidents

 

Also, those 458 losses probably include land-based B-29s which we will never see in BoX. The Japanese put up a spirited fighter defense over Kyushu, and escorted kamikaze attacks part way towards Okinawa, so most non-kamikaze air combats took place much further north than Okinawa.

 

I would love to see a map that went all the way from the Ryukyu islands to southern Japan. It was possible in Il-2 46 but we're not going to get that here. So the Japanese air force at BoX Okinawa will have no land bases, no carriers and no real objective other than kamikaze attacks. This scenario will be great for the US plane lovers but absolutely pointless as a two-sided scenario. Plus it won't really matter what Japanese planes are included as all they are going to do is try and crash into ships.

The only way that Okinawa makes marketing sense is to sell it as a one-sided game and make all of the Japanese planes AI-only thus allowing more US types to be included as flyables.

Cheers.

 

PS If you can get hold of a copy of

 

Genda's Blade: Japan's Squadron of Aces: 343 Kokutai

by Henry Sakaida and Koji Takaki

 

it's well worth reading.

 

PPS A map of Kyushu for Operation Downfall - now that would make more sense.

Edited by 216th_Cat
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I hope. they will sell enough BoK to continue the series with Midway. The discussion beyond is a bit pointless at the moment. 

I agree.

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I hope. they will sell enough BoK to continue the series with Midway. The discussion beyond is a bit pointless at the moment. 

 

You're right on one hand. I hope so too!

On the other, going to the PTO is a big deal so you can't expect everyone to just put it completely out of their minds until after BoK is released.

 

Maybe we won't get there, but that's clearly not the governing factor in what conversations take place at this juncture.

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Ok Gambit, but it seems that the first PTO is Midway. So they talk about something which could come after Midway. But at that time, we don't know if Midway would come real (if BoK is not a sucess, there would be no PTO), so speaking about a potential addon, which could come in more than 2 years seem to be pointless.

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Ok Gambit, but it seems that the first PTO is Midway. So they talk about something which could come after Midway. But at that time, we don't know if Midway would come real (if BoK is not a sucess, there would be no PTO), so speaking about a potential addon, which could come in more than 2 years seem to be pointless.

 

I get it...'cart before the horse' Habu.

But...it's too tantalizing to just be silent about.  :salute:

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I get it...'cart before the horse' Habu.

Another one from my Grandma : Count the eggs in the chicken ass. ;)

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Truthfully,I'd be Very,Very Happy with Anything in The Pacific Theater. 

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Ok Gambit, but it seems that the first PTO is Midway. So they talk about something which could come after Midway. But at that time, we don't know if Midway would come real (if BoK is not a sucess, there would be no PTO), so speaking about a potential addon, which could come in more than 2 years seem to be pointless.

 

I agree that it does appear to be rather irrelevant at the moment, but Jason and the devs did say Kuban/Midway/Okinawa for their road map, and by posting now some of us would rather that it helped them consider Kuban/Midway/somewhere else in the Pacific instead. Once they've begun work on it (and I imagine that any project they do is started a long time before it is officially confirmed), it will be too late.

Cheers.

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I got the impression BoK and BoMi were funded and a go. I think the success of a move to the Pacific and on to Okinawa will be predicated on the success of the Midway adventure. (Funny how RL and it's digital representation run a similar course.)

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I agree that it does appear to be rather irrelevant at the moment, but Jason and the devs did say Kuban/Midway/Okinawa for their road map, and by posting now some of us would rather that it helped them consider Kuban/Midway/somewhere else in the Pacific instead. Once they've begun work on it (and I imagine that any project they do is started a long time before it is officially confirmed), it will be too late. Cheers.
 

I agree with you, but you are talking about something which came in more than 2 years. The work will begin in a few years. It seems that the first PTO will be Midway, and the work about the first PTO will start as soon as BoK will be finish. There will be some work before the end of Bok, but maybe 3d modeling for one or 2 planes, if the work on BoK for that part is finished.

 

Remember how it was hard to launch the Bok development, because Bom has less succes than Bos.

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I got the impression BoK and BoMi were funded and a go

 

Wrong impression  ;)     - only BoK is funded

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I have the feeling that BoS sold relatively successfully, BoM not so much, and I also get the vibe BoK will sell successfully too (Hopefully).

 

But I'm not sure about Midway, sure its easy, you could pull it off with just 6-8 planes and there's very little land, just a lot of ships (which will take most of the development), but I don't think many people would like it, personally, I think career landings and take offs would be awesome, then escorting SBDs, TBFs, D3As, B5Ns etc wouldn't be much different from what we have now.

 

The water technology in RoF is amazing, when they implement that into BoX, flying over the channel in the Felix was something I enjoyed doing.

More so then I thought!

 

It'll be the same with Midway, people will probably enjoy it more so then they think they would, its not just flying over miles of ocean for hours. We already do that at Stalingrad and Moscow. (ocean of trees and grass).

 

Maybe Okinawa will sell better because there's more like 20 planes rather then 6 or 8, and some popular ones too, like those late American ones (P-51).

 

Hope they do a Papua new Guinea one day, if team fusion is doing western front stuff, and 1CGS is doing Eastern and Pacific, This is the only Sim (that's not 1946 or War Thunder) where I can shoot down Ki43s and G4Ms in my P39! :)

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Ok Gambit, but it seems that the first PTO is Midway. So they talk about something which could come after Midway. But at that time, we don't know if Midway would come real (if BoK is not a sucess, there would be no PTO), so speaking about a potential addon, which could come in more than 2 years seem to be pointless.

I think BoK is already success with preorders, already providing funds to develop first episode of Pacific theatre.

If BoM was success than BoK will rock with better planes (spit, yak-1b...etc) not to mention new Kuban map.

And lets not forget how much VR did boost sales, and how much will kuban map sell when vids start to appear on youtube.

So pacific is 300% i can bet!

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I'm kind of hoping that Battle of Midway will open up the map team to doing a few different maps. Midway will no doubt take some time to get right but really its just a dot on a map. Less than the size of Stalingrad city.

 

Wake Island or somewhere in the Marshalls where the very early operations started wouldn't be a bad thing to have. Again, all tiny dots on a map but it would let them feature not just Midway (the climatic battle) but a couple of weeks or even months worth of the lower intensity battles that were going on. Same aircraft set too so that isn't an issue.

 

I guess we'll see!

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I was thinking that too. A bare open Coral Sea style map like Pacific Fighters had. Or even a bit of Rabaul for those early strikes.

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