Battle of Okinawa

[Alexmarine]

Bruma was crazy, what with the Oblivion gate that opened up. There were quite a lot of daedra in the skies those days.

 

:D (hoping somebody catches the reference)

Tsk, ever been at Kvatch?

[Gambit21]

Damnitallman! Hawaii, Hawaii, Hawaii. Real map, right size, obvious applicability...................

 

         

 

Ahh...yes.

I'm well aware of your affinity for this map.

 

After Midway and Okinawa I think that's one viable option for an add-on map.

 

The downfall is that it's still a huge amount of work for what historically was a one day, one sided battle. (understatement obviously)

NON-historically we have the option for a "Battle of Hawaii" that can last for days or months.

I could have fun with that, but you know this community...a large contingent I think would shun that and cry for something historical.

 

With Hawaii, we'd still need an air strip at either end so that we can have a "Fake Rabaul" and a "Fake Henderson"

Then airstrips in the middle for "Fake Bougainville", "Fake Vella Lavella" etc

For that amount of work though...why not just go Solomons which was actually an extended campaign?

 

In any case, Midway and Okinawa have to come first.

Success there and we can have something else whatever that may be.

Right now I just have my fingers crossed that Midway gets a final green light.

 

I have plans for a Darwin campaign using Kuban if/when we find out the Zeke is underway.

I'll build it using the 109E as a stand-n (for build/test purposes) then change to the Zeke when appropriate.

More fingers crossed...a few toes.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Gambit21

[Rjel]

Given all the new technology being built into the BoK, it would seem that Midway would have an overwhelming go ahead unless Kuban absolutely tanked. That's an almost unimaginable outcome knowing what we have learned to this point. Kuban appears to be such an improvement over what has come before in this series that not continuing the expansion to the Pacific would be the demise of this genre. 

 

I do hope that whenever the Midway theater comes to be, that it is more expansive than that single famous battle. While I find the Battle of Midway one of the most iconic and obviously the turning point of the war in the Pacific, it followed and then lead to an entire string of tightly fought battles. So much could be done that the argument about the Pacific being nothing but a few islands and flat ocean would soon be forgotten.  

Edited August 16, 2017 by Rjel

[Cybermat47]

I think it would be great and make sense if BoMw came with a Hawaii, Wake Island, and Coral Sea map.

Edited August 16, 2017 by FFS_Cybermat47

[Gambit21]

I think it would be great and make sense if BoMw came with a Hawaii, Wake Island, and Coral Sea map.

 

When Murf says Hawaii, he's talking the whole chain, not just the big island.

Thus we're talking a huge undertaking, and likely not practical with the Midway release.

[Mesha44]

I think it would be great and make sense if BoMw came with a Hawaii, Wake Island, and Coral Sea map.

I really think this is what we need, several maps that can recreate all the battles and raids of 1942.

 

PS we need to start calling these by the Japanese operational names. Al,Mi,Mo.

[ShamrockOneFive]

When Murf says Hawaii, he's talking the whole chain, not just the big island.

Thus we're talking a huge undertaking, and likely not practical with the Midway release.

 

I've been wondering that too. I mean the map team can crank out some absolutely jaw dropping work with the Kuban map being the high point. Midway will probably involve one or two new techniques to get the coral looking just right... but that leaves them with a lot of time. I'm not sure how much the map team is also working on other types of content but its my hope that they could do some other stuff related to Midway with the aircraft sets being essentially identical from the start of the war and the early carrier raids to Coral Sea and then Midway as the finale. I have no idea if this is asking for a lot or it all makes sense. Game development, like home renovations, is never straight forward

 

I'm actually pretty excited about Okinawa too. There's a lot of cool stuff that can be done around that battle and I can't wait to see what the map team comes up with for Okinawa either.

Edited August 17, 2017 by ShamrockOneFive

[Field-Ops]

Guadalcanal has it's merits as well...

 

 

P 400 at Henderson Field, Guadalcanal...

I've seen the comparison between these two aircraft being made periodically in threads about the Pacific campaign. Just how similar are they? I was just wondering if they are really so similar that the Devs would be able to add a 20mm cannon "mod" for the P39 to effectively turn it into a P400 for pacific use. Or is it more in depth than that?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The P-400 (British P-39 order) was a very early P-39 variant so it was significantly different. The wing machine guns were 7.7mm instead of 7.62mm for local compatibility, the nose cannon was a 20mm Hispano instead of the 37mm M4, the engine was a V-1710-E4 (1150 HP) instead of the V-1710-63 (1325 HP), less efficient propeller than in the P-39L-1 no bomb or drop tank provisions, and a range of lesser changes to improve serviceability and reliability which were poor in the P-400. It's kind of a LaGG-3 to La-5 job, but aesthetically similar.

[Gambit21]

Yeah - but the P-39 we have will work for our purposes.

[Ribbon]

I think devs should go with something that will boost sales, something popular and well known among audience and that is Midway and Okinawa.

Later they can use already available planeset for other fronts.

We (fans of il2) will buy whatever they serve to us, key is to increase sales numbers (attrect new players) which will provide funds for more theatres.

[Pharoah]

Absolutely not... we would like to see the Wirraway and Boomerang in BoNG, not Midway.

 

But yes, I would fly it, for the same reason I fly the I-16, MiG-3, LaGG-3, Ju-52, He-111, Spitfire Mk.Vb, and Ju-87... because it's fun.

 

Besides, chances are that you won't get killed if you go fast and low to avoid the flak, and put decent fuses on your bombs.

 

 

Well, quite a few people, including myself, bought the Ju-52, which goes at 200km/h on a good day, ignites faster than an oily rag on a stove, and has less firepower than quite a few WWI aircraft, so yeah, I'd easily buy the Wirraway and Boomerang.

 

Oh...BoNG. if thats the case, my apologies - I thought we were talking about including it in BoMidway. If its the BoNG then for sure, include away!! (and yes I have the JU52 as well). 

[sniperton]

Can anyone confirm that the game engine can handle 30+ AI aircraft without serious performance drop? Just asking because Okinawa was very much a mass operation, and if the limits still apply, not even the Japanese raid on Midway can be recreated with near-historical numbers. I'm a bit concerned that if you offer an iconic battle like Okinawa which is known for the vast number of ships and aircraft committed there, newcomers will be disappointed by the small-scale skirmishing found in-game.

[xvii-Dietrich]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Cybermat47  will demand Catalinas at Port Moresby so he can fly night raids on Rabaul harbor (in real time on a full scale map...). He's a sick puppy.

Ooo... that sounds a cool mission. I'm up for that!

 

 

 

I have plans for a Darwin campaign using Kuban if/when we find out the Zeke is underway.

I'll build it using the 109E as a stand-n (for build/test purposes) then change to the Zeke when appropriate.

More fingers crossed...a few toes.

This.

 

There are lots of great ideas for scenarios that the mission-building-experts are itching to try out. The plane-sets are slowly coming together, but there is a need to get some maps to make things work. Faking some areas with bits of others is feasible, but new areas are certainly needed. Hopefully the map-building technology is maturing and the devs will be able to churn out some more Pacific island maps than just the main areas.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Can anyone confirm that the game engine can handle 30+ AI aircraft without serious performance drop? Just asking because Okinawa was very much a mass operation, and if the limits still apply, not even the Japanese raid on Midway can be recreated with near-historical numbers. I'm a bit concerned that if you offer an iconic battle like Okinawa which is known for the vast number of ships and aircraft committed there, newcomers will be disappointed by the small-scale skirmishing found in-game.

 

I know I've seen 20+ in some scripted campaign missions and those seem to work without issue on my admittedly fairly powerful PC. We're certainly most of the way there towards some reasonably large scale combat situations thanks to some AI improvements. I wouldn't say it would be a stretch to go 30+ especially if they can eek out a few more AI optimizations in the next two to three years.

[LukeFF]

The P-400 (British P-39 order) was a very early P-39 variant so it was significantly different. The wing machine guns were 7.7mm instead of 7.62mm for local compatibility, the nose cannon was a 20mm Hispano instead of the 37mm M4, the engine was a V-1710-E4 (1150 HP) instead of the V-1710-63 (1325 HP), less efficient propeller than in the P-39L-1 no bomb or drop tank provisions, and a range of lesser changes to improve serviceability and reliability which were poor in the P-400. It's kind of a LaGG-3 to La-5 job, but aesthetically similar.

Or, as the joke went, it was a P-40 with a Zero behind it.

[Gambit21]

That's funny - never heard that before.

[CCG_Pips]

I will wait for the one on Guadalcanal. I would love the full Solomon map with all the chain of Islands. Fantastic place to fight many air-land-sea battles.

 

+100000.

.....................And also covering a large period of the War...........

Edited August 17, 2017 by Pips

[Ropalcz]

Or, as the joke went, it was a P-40 with a Zero behind it.

 

 

Made my day 

[Jade_Monkey]

I agree that compared to the Stalingrad, Moskow, and Kuban maps, Midway should take almost no time. From what i can tell on Google maps, the only other piece of land nearby is the Kure Atoll and it's even smaller than Midway. The rest is all water.

I dont know how the devs distribute their work, but if the person(s) doing the map does not typicly work on planes or other parts of the game, he should have more time to work in an additional map (which would most likely also have mostly water).

 

Im sure the idea has crossed the devs minds, so i guess we'll just wait until BOK is fully released and hear more about future plans.

[Feathered_IV]

US carrier aircraft raided Rabaul pretty early on, and Japanese land based aircraft sorties against the fleet too. I've been gathering information on Rabaul landscape and airbases for the last ten years or so. If the devs are interested I'd invite them to drop me a line.

[Pharoah]

not to say that it will happen but if 1C followed the major pacific battles, what would the timeline be?

 

1. Battle of Guadalcanal/Solomon Islands 1942-1943 - A6M, Betty, Val, Kate, F4F, SBD, TBF

2. Battle of Midway 1942 - A6M, Betty, Val, Kate, F4F, SBD, TBF

3. Battle of Burma - 1943?

4. Battle of Okinawa 1945 - A6M, F6F, F4U, Betty, Val, Kate, Tony, etc?

5. Battle of the Philippines - 1945

 

There's the island hopping campaigns which would probably require multiple maps but of smaller atolls (Wake, Saipan, Marianas, Iwo Jima).

[ShamrockOneFive]

Midway is likely to be:

F4F-3/4

SBD-3

TBD

OS2U

 

A6M2-21

D3A1

B5N2

F1M

 

Might see the TBF, A5M or F3A show up. PBY could happen too.

 

Okinawa is a bit more open to interpretation:

F6F-5

F4U-1C/D

SB2C-5

TBM

 

A6M5 Ko/Otsu/Hei

Ki-84-Ia

N1K2J

J2M3

B6N

Ki-67

 

Not exact there with Okinawa but I'm guessing they want to do the carrier bit.

 

Later there were P-47 and P-51s and lots of bomber and attack types at Le Shima.

[Alexmarine]

not to say that it will happen but if 1C followed the major pacific battles, what would the timeline be?

 

1. Battle of Guadalcanal/Solomon Islands 1942-1943 - A6M, Betty, Val, Kate, F4F, SBD, TBF

2. Battle of Midway 1942 - A6M, Betty, Val, Kate, F4F, SBD, TBF

3. Battle of Burma - 1943?

4. Battle of Okinawa 1945 - A6M, F6F, F4U, Betty, Val, Kate, Tony, etc?

5. Battle of the Philippines - 1945

 

There's the island hopping campaigns which would probably require multiple maps but of smaller atolls (Wake, Saipan, Marianas, Iwo Jima).

Change the TBF in Midway for the TBD. Also change the B5N Type 97 and the D3A Type 99 with B6N Tenzan and D4Y Suisei as they are a better fit from 1944 (even if they didn't completaly replaced the earlier models)

 

The P1Y1 Ginga should also make an appearence if possible in later scenarios.

[sniperton]

Midway and Okinawa have completely different plane sets, as if we had the Battle of France and the Battle of the Bulge merged into one release. Apples and oranges. It would make more sense to couple Midway with another early Pacific scenario and to create a near-complete 1942/43 plane set first. Okinawa could follow as the second or third release.

[Ropalcz]

Midway and Okinawa have completely different plane sets, as if we had the Battle of France and the Battle of the Bulge merged into one release. Apples and oranges. It would make more sense to couple Midway with another early Pacific scenario and to create a near-complete 1942/43 plane set first. Okinawa could follow as the second or third release.

Yes, it is a very big jump. It will take several years to make - if everything goes well.

 

PS: Why dont devs make it like ROF - you can choose which planes you will buy there. Also letting another dev teams make planes (like in DCS) would help the situation...

Edited August 18, 2017 by Ropalcz

[Aap]

Personally I am quite happy that the devs develop this game very differently from what DCS does. I am also glad that they are not considering letting modders mess around with planes, but ground vehicles couldbe something that another team could do. Both drivable and AI only.

[Jade_Monkey]

PS: Why dont devs make it like ROF - you can choose which planes you will buy there. Also letting another dev teams make planes (like in DCS) would help the situation...

Clearly that business model didn't work out as well as they expected in ROF. The unsuccessful planes cost a lot to make and never break even. Hopefully the more successful ones made up for that difference, but each plane feels like a gamble for the devs.

 

They started bundling the planes to cover the costs more evenly but then they changed the policy for the premium airplanes and they can be bought without the base game.

 

I guess it's unclear if they'll start making all planes avaliable for purchase individually as in ROF.

[LLv34_Temuri]

Personally I am quite happy that the devs develop this game very differently from what DCS does. I am also glad that they are not considering letting modders mess around with planes, but ground vehicles couldbe something that another team could do. Both drivable and AI only.

My thoughts exactly.

[Feathered_IV]

Clearly that business model didn't work out as well as they expected in ROF. The unsuccessful planes cost a lot to make and never break even. Hopefully the more successful ones made up for that difference, but each plane feels like a gamble for the devs.

The original development team made the very big mistake of beginning the game in 1918. After that, every aircraft they made was a downgrade.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Feathered_IV

[TheElf]

The original development team made the very big mistake of beginning the game in 1918. After that, every aircraft they made was a downgrade.

 

Which is why I feel a jump to '45 in Okinawa after a '42 Midway release would be misguided for the same reasons.  But alas, who is to say any of it will happen they way we think it will?  It's all just good ideas and wishful thinking until they get Kuban out and the powers that be decide to fund the next BoX.

[Field-Ops]

Definitely agree with starting in the early years of the war and gradually go up 1 year each time. It will work out well for Midway as an opening act to the pacific and I hope they dont make the jump straight to 1944-45. I feel like the wildcats and such will be short lived if that happens. 

 

Stalingrad kind of worked out because it was a rather well known battle to get the initial support of IL-2 fans. The jump back to Moscow, i feel, didnt do as well as it could because it was a "downgrade" on some of the planes capabilities from that time period. I dont have proof to back that up though, i dont work for the team. If this theory does hold up I dont know how they would switch to the Western front without starting in CLoD territory (which I hope they bring Team Fusion onboard to help make that theater).

Edited August 19, 2017 by Field-Ops

[Pharoah]

I'm totally for the Battle of Guadalcanal. There were lots of air battles, sea battles, and land battles. Shipping strikes would be important as well. 

 

Would they ever go to Europe?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Well, most of the Western parts of the Soviet Union are in Europe

[Pharoah]

lol i'm hoping we move a little more west than that!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

They're one step ahead of you: there is an Odessa free map in the works!

 

Jokes asides, all things considered we will have many mainstay aircraft from the Mediterranean theatre circa 41/42 once Kuban is out, with the Hurricane probably being the main omission. A paid map + campaign package wouldn't go amiss

Edited August 22, 2017 by 216th_Lucas_From_Hell

[Pharoah]

thats what I've been thinking of. The Devs have already pretty much covered most of the Luftwaffe's main line aircraft up to say 1944 - why not go to North Africa, the Med (Sicily/Italy) or France so that you're only developing aircraft for one side, vs the Pacific where you're again starting from scratch? Make hay while the sun shines...and its frigging shining!!!

 

Can understand if there's some agreement because of CLoD and TF but still...BoX as it stands right now is AWESOME!!

[Cpt_Cool]

I think the reason they want to go to Okinawa after Midway is that they will likely switch theaters after two installments instead of three, (or at least have the option to switch and leave the pacific decently well covered). If I had to pick two "Battles of" to cover the pacific as best as possible, Midway and Okinawa are probably the only two choices.

[JG5_Zesphr]

How are the pacific stuff when it comes to engine management?  I guess they're mostly manual for midway but what about the later war stuff?

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I think the reason they want to go to Okinawa after Midway is that they will likely switch theaters after two installments instead of three, (or at least have the option to switch and leave the pacific decently well covered). If I had to pick two "Battles of" to cover the pacific as best as possible, Midway and Okinawa are probably the only two choices.

I dont have time or desire to explain to you how wrong you are mate in that conclusion.