Battle of Okinawa

[Field-Ops]

I would be surprised to see the Aleutians developed after Midway Island. Or even a south China map with a Ki-43 and ki-49 to take on in the P-40

[Solmyr]

As the pacific theater maps will be loads of sea, I imagine it will allow for a Kagoshima included in the Okinawa map for exemple, regarding reasonnable use of resourses..

 

I'd be sooo happy to see those late American and Japanese planes coming in, particularly the Ki-84(b or c) !

 

But whatever, actually, I just want all planes in the end. I think if they continue to be that good at what they do, if they keep taking care of their customers, I will purchase whatever they will make !

[Rjel]

Personally I'd prefer other 42-43 scenarios for the Pacific but if it must be Okinawa I'll enjoy (hopefully) flying the P-51D in this game engine. I'd pay for that as a preminum plane regardless of the price. I'm ready for the wrath to rain down now.

[Tag777]

Well, there are a lot of possibilities and scenarios that could be put in the game. Apart of Midway, the other Pacific Battle that is a landmark in PTO for me is the Philippines   

[7.GShAP/Silas]

Okinawa is a waste of time for BoX. 

Once the American fleet attacked there were no Japanese aircraft based there; they didn't have any carriers left either so any aircraft encountered were coming down the 650km from the Japanese mainland or transiting through from the SW. The only possible scenario, with the likely size of map we will get, is waves of airstart kamikaze against a vastly superior US air force, which hardly leads to good gameplay.

There is so much else to choose from in the Pacific; let's hope that whatever follows Midway isn't Okinawa..

 

 

Absolutely, but the idea with Okinawa can't be to actually recreate the battle.  It must be to provide a platform for late war(war over more like) aircraft that appeal to both the grumpy old men with the famous aircraft and to the youngsters who want power and performance.

Edited April 25, 2017 by 7-GvShAP/Silas

[Rjel]

Absolutely, but the idea with Okinawa can't be to actually recreate the battle.  It must be to provide a platform for late war(war over more like) aircraft that appeal to both the grumpy old men with the famous aircraft and to the youngsters who want power and performance.

We may be old(er), and maybe even grumpy, but we are the largest demographic group according to the poll. We may not last very much longer so I think we deserve to get our favorite A/C included in this sim. Those of us over 40 may well be the sim world's Greatest Generation!!! I like the sounds of that. I'm finally the greatest at something!

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Rjel

[Gambit21]

Absolutely, but the idea with Okinawa can't be to actually recreate the battle. It must be to provide a platform for late war(war over more like) aircraft that appeal to both the grumpy old men with the famous aircraft and to the youngsters who want power and performance.

We will need a closer island for the Japanese to fly from...as well as just using carriers in a "what if" type of scenario. We'll also make airbases on Okinawa itself resist for a longer time. Portraying the battle as it actually happened isn't of much interest...but the sandbox is what we'll make use of to create more interesting scenarios.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Gambit21

[=WH=PangolinWranglin]

I hope Carriers and ships are placeable by mission makers. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

I would assume they would be.

 

They were in IL-2: 1946... not that it's a guide necessarily but after some time we even got moving carriers in dogfight missions. That was a bit of a feat.

[Gambit21]

I hope Carriers and ships are placeable by mission makers.

They will be

[Professor1942]

Those of us over 40 may well be the sim world's Greatest Generation!!! I like the sounds of that. I'm finally the greatest at something!

 

 

Well, we did suffer in ways that younger people simply won't understand:

 

[TG-55Panthercules]

Well, we did suffer in ways that younger people simply won't understand:

 

Indeed we did:

 

 

Perhaps that should be what BoX does after their first Midway release.  I always just thought this was one of the most eggregious examples of a typo I'd ever seen, but now I'm thinking it was supposed to be a "what if" scenario - what if Japan had waited to attack Midway until 1943 and the Marines on the island had equipped with P-38s

[simplyjames]

I think it would be cool to just make battle of the pacific, and not fixate on a single battle. I wonder if having to create fewer details on the maps (because of the ocean) would allow for maps/missions to be generated faster.

 

For example instead of battle of midway it would be battle of the pacific 1942, and then 1943 ect.

 

Just a thought, regardless if they stick to the current model of sticking to one specific battle i'm still all in, i love pacific war aircraft.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

It's actually not that far off. Each of the previous releases were not absolutely strict in their planeset. There are bigger emotional ties to Battle of Midway than there would be to BoP '42 for both practical and marketing purposes.

 

I also expect the maps will include other locations (Hawaii please!) either upon release or as a DLC down the road.

Edited April 26, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[von-Luck]

Fingers are crossed for some later model aicraft. I would be tickled to see Ki-43, A6M3, or on the other side P-38's. Not holding my breath for these but they would be a welcome surprise.

 

In terms of gameplay call me a pessimist but the F4F is going to have a rough time with the A6M2. Holding an E advantage will be both critically important and simultaneously difficult. Make a pass and fly away - no climbing, turning, or anything to jeopardize your speed from dives. Heck the zero is faster on the deck too. Sure Sure thatch weave but I don't see that happening often in MP. On the flip side the A6M2 has something like 120 20mm cannon rounds gonna need to make shot placement a priority with only 60 rounds per gun.

 

von Luck

Edited April 26, 2017 by von-Luck

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

Sure Sure thatch weave but I don't see that happening often in MP.

Thach wave is so overhyped, its purely defensive maneuver. Gives you and your wingmen mutual protection but also makes you entirely focused on defense. F4F pilots performed it during Midway battle couple of times when under attack ... while their buddies in TBDs were torn apart.  

 

 

 

On Youtube there is great Documentation about ex Pilots how served in the N1K1 in defending Okinawa. From the Plane Setup could be much more intressting, because the JPN Airforces pushed finially Planes in Service they could conquer the Hellcats and Corsairs. Fighting with a Zero with 1100 HP against Corsair with to 2000 HP Break Horse Power in 1943-44 sounds not realy Promising.

 

Zeros actually did fairly well against Corsairs, at least in 1943:

 

 

 

 

I would not be afraid of F6F-3 if there was expansion related to Battle of Philippine Sea or F4U-1 if we would get some Solomon Islands action as long as I could fly that A6M3 or especially A6M5a. But you could more effectively tackle those with already existing Ki-61s and J2Ms. 

 

I just want to see aircraft variety. Two branches give so many opportunities to produce unique plane set for the Japanese so there is no need to copy&paste any of them. 

[7.GShAP/Silas]

 

I also expect the maps will include other locations (Hawaii please!) either upon release or as a DLC down the road.

 

That's a really good idea.  Hawaii or something similar sounds like a lot of work though, I wonder if they could justify the expense.  One can hope.

 

 

Fingers are crossed for some later model aicraft. I would be tickled to see Ki-43, A6M3, or on the other side P-38's. Not holding my breath for these but they would be a welcome surprise.

 

In terms of gameplay call me a pessimist but the F4F is going to have a rough time with the A6M2. Holding an E advantage will be both critically important and simultaneously difficult. Make a pass and fly away - no climbing, turning, or anything to jeopardize your speed from dives. Heck the zero is faster on the deck too. Sure Sure thatch weave but I don't see that happening often in MP. On the flip side the A6M2 has something like 120 20mm cannon rounds gonna need to make shot placement a priority with only 60 rounds per gun.

 

von Luck

 

 

I expect the Americans to be the new Luftwaffe in multiplayer as far as player numbers go, so if the Japanese have a technical advantage to attract flyers then maybe we won't see such appalling balance issues like we do now.  Sounds good to me.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

 

"That's a really good idea. Hawaii or something similar sounds like a lot of work though, I wonder if they could justify the expense. One can hope."

 

 

With the vertical landscape and water tech in Kuban, I don't see Hawaii being overly complex. It has obvious historical context with the likely planeset and is big enough for multiple MP and "what if" scenarios. What's more, there are tons of historical photos and resources available to the Dev's for reference.

Edited April 26, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[von-Luck]

I expect the Americans to be the new Luftwaffe in multiplayer as far as player numbers go, so if the Japanese have a technical advantage to attract flyers then maybe we won't see such appalling balance issues like we do now. Sounds good to me.

On one hand I can see where your coming from but on the other weighs the success of the game. If playing American is going to be thoroughly punishing it could hurt the expansion as a whole. I worry that tactics and team work alone won't be a lucrative enough draw. That's where some army air force planes might help even the playing field. I worry that the opposite of what you stated will be the case. The Japanese, with superior equipment, will draw a majority of the players and make for some very one sided matches. The F4F is quite overmatched if that represents the sole ASF of the USA.

 

 

von Luck

Edited April 26, 2017 by von-Luck

[Lusekofte]

 

 

I am by far looking more forward to Okinawa then Midway! (Ki-61 and Ki-84 anyone?)

 

What should we do after that, 1945 and war is ending?

 

I am a Spanish civil war and early 1940 kind of dude myself, the uberplane just meet another uberplane and you end up with a equal fight early and late. no difference but graphical 

[7.GShAP/Silas]

On one hand I can see where your coming from but on the other weighs the success of the game. If playing American is going to be thoroughly punishing it could hurt the expansion as a whole. I worry that tactics and team work alone won't be a lucrative enough draw. That's where some army air force planes might help even the playing field. I worry that the opposite of what you stated will be the case. The Japanese, with superior equipment, will draw a majority of the players and make for some very one sided matches. The F4F is quite overmatched if that represents the sole ASF of the USA.

 

 

von Luck

 

 

There's no way the Japanese side will attract more than the Americans. Not only do most enthusiasts(broad strokes, but true in my experience) have little knowledge of or interest in the Japanese side of the air war beyond "zero = light, fast, delicate" but the Americans wrote the history books and made all the movies, prominently featuring American planes that have been happily embedded in popular culture.  Along with this is the expectation that Midway will bring a large gaggle of American flight simmers to the fold, but this will not be balanced by an influx of Japanese flight simmers.

 

Now that would be cool, a viral word-of-mouth marketing campaign that would somehow give rise to a whole new flight sim contingent:  The Japanese!

Edited April 26, 2017 by 7-GvShAP/Silas

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The old Zeroes v Wildcats server was often pretty even for both numbers and skill. The PTO has a good chance to be competitive and fun.

[von-Luck]

Won't take long for that gaggle of players to understand who's the under dog. If the only advantages the F4F offers is a higher dive speed and superior roll rate I imagine you'll have a load of players crying out for better planes. The novelty of Midway will quickly be lost to the brutal reality that MP will present the player base. Call me crazy but I can picture a great influx followed by a great exodus as that gaggle of Americans find greener pastures. Even though this is a SIM striving for a good balance in capabilities should still be a concern.

 

The old Zeroes v Wildcats server was often pretty even for both numbers and skill. The PTO has a good chance to be competitive and fun.

I could be wrong but I know I won't be flying any Wild cats unless it's with a cadre of friends. I guess I'm just being a bit critical about this. I love that the pacific theatre is coming to BoX I am hoping it will be a great addition but the matchup troubles me. If the P40 is a slug presently what will be so different about the F4F in the context of this expansion? A big, heavy, underpowered, warbird . . . maybe I'm too skeptical for my own good.

 

von Luck

Edited April 26, 2017 by von-Luck

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

For me it will get me into the underdog role. I don't find Russian AC as compelling as the German craft. Consequently, I fly the superior AC by default (though the 1b has closed that gap a bit). While I do like the Japanese machines, I find the American hardware much more interesting and familiar. It will be fun to try and do well with the known limitations. Fortunately my mates are all pretty hardy souls. I think we'll do OK flying together. 1v1 maybe not so much.

[Gambit21]

 The F4F is quite overmatched if that represents the sole ASF of the USA.

 

Not if you fly smart, and the F4F gave as good as it got in 1942 for the most part.

 

As much as I'm a Zeke fan, I still find the challenge of flying a sortie in the Wildcat and landing back at home rewarding. When in the Wildcat, I climb, survey the situation, then if the opportunity arrises making a diving pass through a Japanese formation, maybe saw the wings off of a Zeke, maybe not...but in either case extend

and fly home. Maybe climb back to altitude a ways from the battle area and go hunting again.

 

Both sides are fun with the Zeke vs Wildcat scenario - totally different styles and I enjoy both.

"Warrant Officer Yamaha Kawasaki" is looking forward to killing more Wildcats, Hellcats and Corsairs, but I'll spending my fair share of time on the other side as well.

 

I tend to "fly slack" flying for whatever side is short.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I honestly think it's a fairly even battle between the two. Wildcats can sort of be flown like Bf109s except with a spray of machine guns instead of cannons and a far better over the nose view that is ideal for those deflection shots while booming and zooming.

 

I'm happy to fly for both sides. In Pacific Fighters I ended up flying dive bombers a lot. Both the D3A and SBD were great aircraft and relatively agile in their own right. Enough to occasionally mix it up with the fighters attacking you (though that was a bit of a desperate move). When I was in fighters I liked flying both Zero and Wildcat. They required different approaches to fighting and the Zero has the edge in turn, climb and speed but the speed advantage is very small as I remember it and a short dive for the Wildcat puts it in a different space than the Zero. I'm also anticipating that the Zero's extremely poor aileron response at high speeds will be better modeled here than in Pacific Fighters.

[Feathered_IV]

A P-38 Collector's plane and an additional generic-islands map like PF had would bring the Americans in no worries.

[ShamrockOneFive]

A P-38 Collector's plane and an additional generic-islands map like PF had would bring the Americans in no worries.

 

See that just gets me hoping for a Slot map at some point :D

[Gambit21]

Battle for Henderson/Guadalcanal, then P-38's and Corsair's up the slot.

Blacksheep!

 

In the words of the great Tom Petty - Oh my my, oh hell yes.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

We'll have to see how engine limitations and parameters get modelled for the Wildcat and Zero, it could really change how the fights will carry out in comparison to IL-2 1946.

 

 

Does somebody have the engine limits for the planes? In 1946 for the Wildcat 100% throttle is around 50" and 100% RPM is 2800, for the Zero 100% throttle is +7 (don't know which unit) and 100% RPM is 2600.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Sakae 12 was officially restricted to 30 minutes of flight at rated power and 1 minute of take-off power, just like almost all Japanese engines at given time. No specific limitations were imposed on use of emergency power, it was merely stated in engine testing procedures that in case of emergency this rating can be used for 3 minutes. Japanese manufacturers considered emergency power as something "above" the requirements, so aircraft was supposed to meet those requirements at rated power. What was above that, was left for pilots decision whether they wish to use it or not. Pilots of course used everything they had under the hood. Somewhere in 1943 new testing methodology for engines was adjusted to new units, particularly as use of water-methanol injection became standard so the emergency power use was extended (on paper really, since pilots pushed engines far beyond existing limits already) but cant recall now whether it was 6 or 10 minutes. 

Here are such procedures I have found few years ago : http://www.enginehistory.org/Japanese/JapaneseEngTesting/JapaneseEngTesting.shtml

 

I'd expect that A6M2 will be able to fly for 30 minutes continuously at rated power and that it will be able to run emergency power for at least 3 minutes. That would be +150mmHg MAP/2500 RPM and +250 mmHg MAP/2550 RPM respectively. 

[Ribbon]

For me it's not all about plane's performance, it is that warm feeling pacific will provide and missions that are completely different we have now in BoS/BoM either in SP or MP.

Takeoff from carrier and patrol the area, spot trails enemy ships are leaving on the sea and sinking them as main objective while enemy launching their fighters as counterattack.

 

Pacific theatre could mean so much for multiplayer and here is the example;

Currently in MP we have map with enemy positions marked on it so victory it is quite determined on amount of players playing on each side and that is mostly in favour of Axis side since everybody want to fly better planes so in most cases it is few allies against dozens of axis players making me run away from server. I mean there is no joy playing alone against dozens of enemy or everybody against one player, taking away fun for both sides.

Now with Pacific theatre either Okinawa, Midway or any other battle settled in Pacific involving carriers and other ships objectives won't be marked on the map(since they are movable targets) so players will be forced to patrol and search enemy positions(ships, destroyers and carriers) and objectives so once they find it enemy position on the map will be indicated for that side and they will group players to attack it giving equal chance for each side no matter of players ratio.

Skills and spotting abilities will determine advantage and victory.

Now i must go download Pacific ww2 movies!

[LFL-EightyPLUS]

I was thinking that too. A bare open Coral Sea style map like Pacific Fighters had. Or even a bit of Rabaul for those early strikes.

Rabaul would be a good choice, imagine taking off on a tropical island and flying all the way to Guadalcanal, performing raids and escort missions there's there... Theres even a option to fight against the Ausie Air force aswell...

[Feathered_IV]

It's about a six hour round trip I think, from Rabaul to Henderson for the earlier Pacific battles. 

Late 1943 through into 1944 could be ok though if the map was the Rabaul area extending east to the allied bases on Green Island.  I did a map for that in the old Il-2 and its about 20 minutes flying time.

[Lusekofte]

 

 

Not if you fly smart, and the F4F gave as good as it got in 1942 for the most part.

 

Good training , teamwork and the fact that they had nothing better made the Wildcat useable. In a public server if FM is right you need the same attitude and skill to take on the Zero. I think many squadrons will have the ability to do well in it, but for the loners it will be a deathtrap

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

It's about a six hour round trip I think, from Rabaul to Henderson for the earlier Pacific battles. 

Late 1943 through into 1944 could be ok though if the map was the Rabaul area extending east to the allied bases on Green Island.  I did a map for that in the old Il-2 and its about 20 minutes flying time.

and in IL2'46 VOW COOP war the Players complained when missiontimes were 1 hour (or even more )...not unfamiliar in the PTO campaign :D

[Scojo]

Won't take long for that gaggle of players to understand who's the under dog. If the only advantages the F4F offers is a higher dive speed and superior roll rate I imagine you'll have a load of players crying out for better planes. The novelty of Midway will quickly be lost to the brutal reality that MP will present the player base. Call me crazy but I can picture a great influx followed by a great exodus as that gaggle of Americans find greener pastures. Even though this is a SIM striving for a good balance in capabilities should still be a concern.

 

 

I could be wrong but I know I won't be flying any Wild cats unless it's with a cadre of friends. I guess I'm just being a bit critical about this. I love that the pacific theatre is coming to BoX I am hoping it will be a great addition but the matchup troubles me. If the P40 is a slug presently what will be so different about the F4F in the context of this expansion? A big, heavy, underpowered, warbird . . . maybe I'm too skeptical for my own good.

 

von Luck

As BoX stands right now, I only fly LW fighters until friends to fly with get on, then I'll consider flying a Russian fighter. So not much will change in the PTO for me except that I will gladly be in dive bombers when flying by myself. In BoX when I'm by myself, there aren't many Attack planes that really excite me anymore.

 

Plus, I know a lot more about the PTO, so I'll be looking forward to flying lots of SP as I just like the atmosphere there much more since I'm American, and also because I'll know how to set up some more realistic missions.

 

For me it's not all about plane's performance, it is that warm feeling pacific will provide and missions that are completely different we have now in BoS/BoM either in SP or MP.

Takeoff from carrier and patrol the area, spot trails enemy ships are leaving on the sea and sinking them as main objective while enemy launching their fighters as counterattack.

 

Pacific theatre could mean so much for multiplayer and here is the example;

Currently in MP we have map with enemy positions marked on it so victory it is quite determined on amount of players playing on each side and that is mostly in favour of Axis side since everybody want to fly better planes so in most cases it is few allies against dozens of axis players making me run away from server. I mean there is no joy playing alone against dozens of enemy or everybody against one player, taking away fun for both sides.

Now with Pacific theatre either Okinawa, Midway or any other battle settled in Pacific involving carriers and other ships objectives won't be marked on the map(since they are movable targets) so players will be forced to patrol and search enemy positions(ships, destroyers and carriers) and objectives so once they find it enemy position on the map will be indicated for that side and they will group players to attack it giving equal chance for each side no matter of players ratio.

Skills and spotting abilities will determine advantage and victory.

Now i must go download Pacific ww2 movies!

Not to mention that in most cases, battle groups would create a more concentrated area of targets in general, meaning that the action will be quick and brutal once the enemy is found and that intel starts flowing.

 

In BoX right now, stuff is so spread out for most of the MP matches that you can not only fly around for a bit and see nothing, but you can also do lots of Attack missions without much fear of intercept, at least before you drop your bomb load.

 

I really do feel like the combat dynamics will be new and exciting because of all of this.

[Ribbon]

As BoX stands right now, I only fly LW fighters until friends to fly with get on, then I'll consider flying a Russian fighter. So not much will change in the PTO for me except that I will gladly be in dive bombers when flying by myself. In BoX when I'm by myself, there aren't many Attack planes that really excite me anymore.

 

Plus, I know a lot more about the PTO, so I'll be looking forward to flying lots of SP as I just like the atmosphere there much more since I'm American, and also because I'll know how to set up some more realistic missions.

 

Not to mention that in most cases, battle groups would create a more concentrated area of targets in general, meaning that the action will be quick and brutal once the enemy is found and that intel starts flowing.

 

In BoX right now, stuff is so spread out for most of the MP matches that you can not only fly around for a bit and see nothing, but you can also do lots of Attack missions without much fear of intercept, at least before you drop your bomb load.

 

I really do feel like the combat dynamics will be new and exciting because of all of this.

Not just for Americans,i already know Pacific theatre will be my favourite (was in il2 1946 even i played only SP).  I hope preorders will be available as soon BoK is released and delivered bit by bit same like now with BoK.

As much variety game provides better it is, and more audience it will attract.

[BlitzPig_EL]

My recollections of the old Zekes vs. Wildcats server was that it was pretty much like the sim is currently.

 

The Japanese were usually vastly outnumbered by the USN/USAAF, as most players, and all the Luftwaffe squads, gravitated to the higher performance late war US birds, and would never, ever, balance the teams.

 

One night on the server those of us that flew for the Emperor had enough and we all switched over to the US side, forcing some of them to switch over to the Japanese.

It was wonderful.   The US flyers that moved over found out just how easy they had it flying their hot rods.  We mopped up the floor with them.

 

Too easy.

 

My fear is that in a late war scenario in this sim, the very same thing will happen.   The hot rod boys will never balance teams and it will eventually lead to the loss of players on servers hosting Pacific content.

[Feathered_IV]

and in IL2'46 VOW COOP war the Players complained when missiontimes were 1 hour (or even more )...not unfamiliar in the PTO campaign :D

 

I've seen some people complain about Calais to Dover too.  It's a weird phenomena, that flight sim enthusiasts seem to hate flying so much.  It's like perverts being turned off pornography because they feel obligated to have a wank.