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Jason_Williams

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Sorry, Irgendjemand, I hope for your understanding, but I`m not allowed to talk about details of the current state of VR in IL2. Hard for me, as I would love nothing better than talking the whole day about it. :biggrin:

 

I understand. Thanks a lot!

Guess will not be too long of a wait anyways:)

 

S!

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Hey guys -  I just installed an extra Vive link box and some lighthouse stands with my desk-based flight simming workstation in anxious anticipation of VR. I normally use my Vive on another machine with a 980ti card for room scale.  My flight sim set-up only has an older 780 ti card, so I know it will have serious limits. I will likely move to a 1080 card when I know VR is going to be functional enough to justify the new hardware (maybe a 1080 ti?). Having already accepted the limitations of mainstream VR headsets (i.e. screen door effect, 110 degree FOV), I'm hoping at least having a powerful card with the ability to max-out settings including super sampling will help some. If 1C/777 can implement VR well enough, the experience should be a another game changer. Just having the feeling of 3D depth will add to the experience. Also, I like to fly bombers and I'm curious about what the limitations will be for being in a bomber with VR. We had some hints in the last developer update, but I'm hoping bombsight and gunner sights are implemented in a usable manner. Cheers!

As a bomber pilot flying in VR that was my thoughts too. I tested that right after a spin or two in a fighter. Its being looked at, that's all I know.

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I also recommend the solution of having a mini keyboard + trackball at hand. I have my VR cockpit set up so that the x52 pro throttle is on an old computer case - just in front of the throttle I have the mini keyboard and trackball. I'm so used to it now that I can blindly type on the keyboard, and the mini trackball means I can select stuff in menus and even interact with cockpit elements as I would using a mouse.

 

Apart from that, I'm really looking forward to trying IL2 Box on my Vive - I've waited for ww2 combat flight sim in VR for so looong! I even resorted to flying War Thunder in VR, but that sort of increased the frustration even more. It looks like we're almost there now. I just hope it releases soonish, because the other thing that's almost ready is our first baby - and once that has happened I can kiss goodbye VR for a long time!

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I've noticed several of the various VR application are announcing 8K.What will this mean exactly? Is it worth waiting for ? 8K I mean.

On another subject:there are quite a few new terms dealing with VR ...Itranslation only rotationread this phrase that dealt with the limitations of the Pimax model:"translation only rotation".Does this have something to do with 4 o r6 DOF? I have no idea. :huh: It would be great if someone do a quick glossary.It would help a guy like me to know what to look for in this upcoming big investment. :salute:

Edited by Blitzen

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I've noticed several of the various VR application are announcing 8k.What will this mean exactly? Is it worth waiting for ?

On another subject:there are quite a few new terms dealing with VR ...it would be great if someone do a quick glossary.It would help a guy like me to know what to look for in this upcoming big investment. :salute:

 

VR = Virtual Reality :lol:

 

The only other one that comes to my mind, and is in regards to the Rift and important to understand, is ASW.

See below:

 

Oculus is releasing a new technology aimed at reducing system hardware requirements while maintaining content quality across a wider array of hardware. Asynchronous Spacewarp (ASW) is a frame-rate smoothing technique that almost halves the CPU/GPU time required to produce nearly the same output from the same content. Like Asynchronous Timewarp (ATW), ASW is automatic and enabled without any additional effort from developers.

 

​The Rift CV1 was designed to run at 90 fps. ASW halves that, so one can run at 45 fps and still get a smooth experience. The game will be running at 45 fps, but the Rift will be displaying at 90 fps.  It appears to work very well. If my frame rates stay at or above 90 fps, then it is running with no ASW. If they drop much below 90 fps, ASW will kick in and it will run at 45 fps. The only issue I have seen so far with it, is in another combat sim, the gun-sight gets blurred - more like squiggly lines  somewhat when ASW kicks in. But I think that is more of a game issue rather than an Oculus issue.

ASW is on by default, and can be disabled should one want to in the Oculus Debug Tool.

Or through the assigned hot keys, I think they are ctrl+numpad 1 and 5...

Also of note, if your computer cannot maintain min of 90 fps and ASW is disabled, then that will likely introduce some stuttering and blurring of the image as fps fluctuates when moving the head.

Edited by dburne

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VR = Virtual Reality :lol:

 

The only other one that comes to my mind, and is in regards to the Rift and important to understand, is ASW.

See below:

 

Oculus is releasing a new technology aimed at reducing system hardware requirements while maintaining content quality across a wider array of hardware. Asynchronous Spacewarp (ASW) is a frame-rate smoothing technique that almost halves the CPU/GPU time required to produce nearly the same output from the same content. Like Asynchronous Timewarp (ATW), ASW is automatic and enabled without any additional effort from developers.

 

​The Rift CV1 was designed to run at 90 fps. ASW halves that, so one can run at 45 fps and still get a smooth experience. The game will be running at 45 fps, but the Rift will be displaying at 90 fps.  It appears to work very well. If my frame rates stay at or above 90 fps, then it is running with no ASW. If they drop much below 90 fps, ASW will kick in and it will run at 45 fps. The only issue I have seen so far with it, is in another combat sim, the gun-sight gets blurred - more like squiggly lines  somewhat when ASW kicks in. But I think that is more of a game issue rather than an Oculus issue.

ASW is on by default, and can be disabled should one want to in the Oculus Debug Tool.

Or through the assigned hot keys, I think they are ctrl+numpad 1 and 5...

Also of note, if your computer cannot maintain min of 90 fps and ASW is disabled, then that will likely introduce some stuttering and blurring of the image as fps fluctuates when moving the head.

Very ,very helpful! Of course I knew what VR was , but very shakey on everything else like ASW.What about the difference between 6K & 8K,Is this a matter of better definition? If so is there going to be any effect on FPS that ASW would help? Does anyone know at this point

Edited by Blitzen

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Very ,very helpful! Of course I knew what VR was , but very shakey on everything elas like ASW.What about the difference between 6K & 8K,Is this a matter of better definition? If so is there going to be any effect on FPS that ASW would help? Does anyone know at this point

 

I know very little on this 8k talk that is going around, I would think they are talking like 4k " per eye" but I really do not know.

I don't see that being accomplished for what we do currently, maybe at some point...

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I know very little on this 8k talk that is going around, I would think they are talking like 4k " per eye" but I really do not know.

I don't see that being accomplished for what we do currently, maybe at some point...

Yes, it is 4K per eye. The Pimax I think. Has no  head translation though, and I hear that latency, refresh rate and screen quality is not quite there yet. But it gives a good indication of what's coming!

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I've noticed several of the various VR application are announcing 8K.What will this mean exactly? Is it worth waiting for ? 8K I mean.

On another subject:there are quite a few new terms dealing with VR ...Itranslation only rotationread this phrase that dealt with the limitations of the Pimax model:"translation only rotation".Does this have something to do with 4 o r6 DOF? I have no idea. :huh: It would be great if someone do a quick glossary.It would help a guy like me to know what to look for in this upcoming big investment. :salute:

 

I've noticed several of the various VR application are announcing 8K.What will this mean exactly? Is it worth waiting for ? 8K I mean.

 

No there is only one company "Pimax" which has a nearly 8k prototyp but its not as good as the Htc Vive or Oculus in head tracking which is very important for flightsims.

Pimax has also a 4k Vr headset which works quiet well but it has only tracking in 3-axis ( 3dof ) not in 6-axis ( 6DOF )like the HTC vive and Oculus does this is a problem for flyhtsims because to look around in your cockpit and see everything you will have to shift your body sometimes and that is something the Pimax can´t do.

 

HTC Vive has already released to the public that they will focus on equipment and software for there existing product and that there is no HTC Vive 2 in 2017. ( Vive 2 is expected not before the end of 2018 )

For Oculus its most likely the same both of them dont want to change products to quickly because this would get them into a lot of trouble with people that bought there first modell.

 

 

So for flightsims only the HTC Vive and Oculus rift is an option for the next 2 years.

 

The HTC Vive is more expansiv than the Oculus rift but it also offers more additional equipment than the Oculus does until now.

 

The Oculus is lower in price and you can buy it without the handcontoller which saves you some more mony but also limit the number of expiriences you can try on your VR quiet a bit.

Since Vive is more open for other devices there are more new products realeased for the HTC Vive first and after that they get realeased on Oculus later or you can play them only through the Steam-Vr app which can be used with Oculus too.

Also its told that Vive sells out Oculus 2:1 ( nobody knows realy if its through but it could be because Oculus droped there price a bit )

 

So if you want to buy one of these two both a very good.

If it is the Oculus i would advise you to buy it with the Oculus tuch controllers so you can get the best expirience and you should look into the additional contents like games, documentations and other such things they offer. There is most likely more than just IL2 that you want to try in VR. :salute:

 

There are similar things for the Oculus too.

Edited by Gunsmith86

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Also another consideration regarding the Rift and the Vive,

 

The Rift has built in headphones/mic, which are actually pretty darn good. I was using a Seinnheiser set that I really liked, and find the Oculus to be just as good so have not used them since.

The Vive as I understand it does not, someone please correct me if that is not accurate.

 

Oculus actually has a very decent library of games available, in fact some very good ones come for free with the purchase of the Touch Controllers. But Oculus SDK is a closed system, so for instance Vive users cannot "officially" access and play the games offered by Oculus. There are workarounds though that Oculus kind of turns a blind eye to. Whereas the SteamVR is an OpenVR interface, so an Oculus user can run Steam games as well, through the SteamVR application.

 

I read up a lot on both devices , before deciding on the Rift, and this was even before the big price drop on the Rift - I missed that by a month LOL just my luck.

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So I might as well Vive pretty much right away? No sense in waiting for the end of 2018? I've noticed that used Vives are already available at quite a discount .Are they the same unit as I might buy new or some earlier beta? ;)

Edited by Blitzen

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Depends what your priorities are. If you play for the immersion more than the competition I would say go for a Vive or a Rift now.

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Depends what your priorities are. If you play for the immersion more than the competition I would say go for a Vive or a Rift now.

Yes thats it :)

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I have a Pimax 4K on the way and you can get 6dof with a few different options one being track IR. Now if it will work with IL2 we will see. After updated the 3dof is getting great reviews. To say there are only 2 options is not correct. Pimax can use steam vr and the oculus equivalent. From their forums it says the 8k will have motion tracking (6dof I assume) and it would hopefully be backward compatable with the 4k. They do interact well with the community even with a bit of a language barrier.

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I have a Pimax 4K on the way and you can get 6dof with a few different options one being track IR.

 

If that works than it would be a a option too.

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Looking at the DCS forums there seem to be quite some people having trouble to get DCS started with the Pimax. Maybe there will be similar problems when it comes to IL2. The game is tested with the Vive and Rift, not with the Pimax.

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I tried the rift. But I will send it back again. Its kind of nice but I prefer my Monitor and TrackIR over it still. Tje resolutions is still way too grainy, aldo my hardware is just a notch below top notch and that is noticable, even with the rifts resolution. So I will wait for the next generation in two to three years.

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Looking at the DCS forums there seem to be quite some people having trouble to get DCS started with the Pimax. Maybe there will be similar problems when it comes to IL2. The game is tested with the Vive and Rift, not with the Pimax.

 

Yeah I would just urge caution. AFAIK the only real players for VR with positional tracking for what we do, is Oculus Rift and HTC Vive.

They both pretty much just work out of the box, as long as one has the recommended PC specs.

This Primax is very new and will certainly be interesting to hear reports from gamers going forward.

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And plenty of people report no problems with Pimax and DCS as well. Im not going to let the internet keep me from a cheaper higher resolution option. Also DCS and IL2 are completely different engines as well. Pimax and Vive and Oculus all use the same software but pimax has better hardware on paper so I will wait and see for sure...example in E.D. people much prefer the Pimax to either popular brand. This game is the gold standard for simmers at the moment. Much of my positivity comes from using my analog thumbstick to slide around the cockpit doest bother me and the Pimax can do everything else. (Actually tracks faster than the Vive or Oculus.)

Edited by II./ZG1_GrendelsDad
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I play Elite Dangerous also so this review was good to see.

 

I think Jason is getting or has a Pimax so hopefully it's testing as well.

Edited by II./ZG1_GrendelsDad

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I think Jason is getting or has a Pimax so hopefully it's testing as well.

I read that he had ordered one. Will be cool to hear what people think of it, and how it works with il2.

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Yeah I am excited to hear opinions on all the headsets...seems there are benefits and drawbacks to each of them at this point.

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Yup. Early days still, I guess. We have started developing a little for VR at work actually, so I will follow the tech closely.

 

... Glad I went for first gen though. My "sewing machine" wouldn't be able to handle anything beyond 1080p in vr I don't think:-p

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Also another consideration regarding the Rift and the Vive,

 

The Rift has built in headphones/mic, which are actually pretty darn good. I was using a Seinnheiser set that I really liked, and find the Oculus to be just as good so have not used them since.

The Vive as I understand it does not, someone please correct me if that is not accurate.

 

Oculus actually has a very decent library of games available, in fact some very good ones come for free with the purchase of the Touch Controllers. But Oculus SDK is a closed system, so for instance Vive users cannot "officially" access and play the games offered by Oculus. There are workarounds though that Oculus kind of turns a blind eye to. Whereas the SteamVR is an OpenVR interface, so an Oculus user can run Steam games as well, through the SteamVR application.

 

I read up a lot on both devices , before deciding on the Rift, and this was even before the big price drop on the Rift - I missed that by a month LOL just my luck.

Vive has a very good built in headphone/mic. I don't use it because if I'm not in VR I'd have to have the HMD on to talk to someone.

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Vive has a very good built in headphone/mic. I don't use it because if I'm not in VR I'd have to have the HMD on to talk to someone.

 

:good: 

 

Good to know, thanks for the clarification!

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It has only rotational tracking, so for me it's a no-go. Need to be able to lean to the sides/front/back.

The upcoming LG looks promising https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re7QgkoQ5Rc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg4nOAP3oXo

 

Yep, too bad.  They are coming out with an 8K but tracking is not there yet although intended I believe.

 

I hope LG goes with a 4K screen.  If Oculus and Vive wait two years to market a 4K they will miss the window IMO.  Looks like there will be many VR choices in the not too distant future.

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  If Oculus and Vive wait two years to market a 4K they will miss the window IMO.  Looks like there will be many VR choices in the not too distant future.

Only if some other companies release a product that is capable of 4k and offers as much content and equipment than they do. Also i assume that they will have something in reserve that they could release if necessary.

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Only if some other companies release a product that is capable of 4k and offers as much content and equipment than they do. Also i assume that they will have something in reserve that they could release if necessary.

 

I still struggle to imagine a company that can offer true 4K not to mention 8K in VR Headsets with today's computer technology. And not talking about viewing pictures, but a VR gaming experience.

 

Perhaps they can and that would be awesome, one would think if it could be done today Oculus and Vive would have been all over it already - and maybe they are who knows.

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I still struggle to imagine a company that can offer true 4K not to mention 8K in VR Headsets with today's computer technology. And not talking about viewing pictures, but a VR gaming experience.

 

Perhaps they can and that would be awesome, one would think if it could be done today Oculus and Vive would have been all over it already - and maybe they are who knows.

That was pretty much what I was thinking.

 

If I have a hope it will be that someone will come up with a screen upgrade kit for the Rift. Resolution is the one area that I find difficult to accept. Until something obviously better comes along then all the other aspects are perfectly acceptable that they don't impinge on my enjoyment but the low resolution does and also takes away from the overall level of immersion that I get. That's not to say I don't get immersion it's just that it would be dramatically improved..

 

From a game development standpoint, lighting I think is the feature that will need most work over the coming years to add increasingly convincing immersion levels.

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That was pretty much what I was thinking.

 

If I have a hope it will be that someone will come up with a screen upgrade kit for the Rift. Resolution is the one area that I find difficult to accept. Until something obviously better comes along then all the other aspects are perfectly acceptable that they don't impinge on my enjoyment but the low resolution does and also takes away from the overall level of immersion that I get. That's not to say I don't get immersion it's just that it would be dramatically improved..

 

From a game development standpoint, lighting I think is the feature that will need most work over the coming years to add increasingly convincing immersion levels.

These are the kinds of observations that I find most insightful concerning vr. While resolution is the biggest issue things like lighting and overall environment don't get much discussion from what I've seen. Playing on a 50 inch screen at high resolution is hard to beat. I think vr could be the quantum leap for us simmers but for me not until it can can produce graphics close to what we have now at 60+ Solid fps. Pimax seems the closest but discussion on it is very mixed. It's all incredibly interesting. Edited by TheSNAFU

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Just to make it interesting...I am getting 50 fps on the ground and 60+ in the air with three 4k monitors.  I think for sure THIS game could handle the Pimax 4k or 8k.  I am amazed at how well the game runs at 11520x2160 so I guess I am saying that performance of the game shouldn't be a limiting factor. 

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That was pretty much what I was thinking.

 

If I have a hope it will be that someone will come up with a screen upgrade kit for the Rift. Resolution is the one area that I find difficult to accept. Until something obviously better comes along then all the other aspects are perfectly acceptable that they don't impinge on my enjoyment but the low resolution does and also takes away from the overall level of immersion that I get. That's not to say I don't get immersion it's just that it would be dramatically improved..

 

From a game development standpoint, lighting I think is the feature that will need most work over the coming years to add increasingly convincing immersion levels.

 

From what I understand at least for Nvidia, it has a default color range setting of limited. There is a way in Nvidia control panel to change that setting to "full range" for the Rift, by plugging the Rift HDMI into the slot the monitor is normally plugged into - or something like that, then go in and make the change to full range, then hook the monitor back up. Not sure if I have all that correct, but has been discussed at length over on some other forums.

 

I myself have not tried it, but reports from several that have tried it have been very positive, they say it drastically improves the looks of the image.

If interested, have a look at this thread on the Oculus forums.

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Stick I ordered mine on sale at a place called Gearbest.com. this will be my first order from them. I did notice some promo codes around the web but none beat the sale so I didnt try.

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Stick I ordered mine on sale at a place called Gearbest.com. this will be my first order from them. I did notice some promo codes around the web but none beat the sale so I didnt try.

 

Cool, keep us informed of your progress.

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