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Developer Diary, Part 152 - Discussion

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Jason could you confirm whether the standalone version will support VR or should I start the process now to transfer to a steam copy to play VR on day one can't wait!

 

Looks like I was right! (And I forgive the taking away of graphics customization from early access but could still be helpful in getting the best VR experience)

 

 

Posted 26 June 2015 - 11:55 Excellent update showing the devs ARE listening (at least somewhat) I will be buying BOM premium the instant Full Graphics Controls come back but great start! Also #10 will hopefully bring some people back! Another 2 years and this could very well be the best FS ever :D

 

 

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If that means 6DOF then hell yeah I'd be in. On my watch list. :-)

They are developing the 6dof for the 8k version for May timeframe... Or so I read. It might spill back over to the 4k.

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They are developing the 6dof for the 8k version for May timeframe... Or so I read. It might spill back over to the 4k.

It would make sense. And they're seriously expecting an 8K release in May or sp? I hope they have some clever tech to make it playable; I'll be more than happy with a 4K 6DOF set up. Suddenly the VR future isn't looking quite so elongated. Here's hoping.

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Spitfire...what we can say...an aviation legend,looks really cool..and maybe a dangerous enemy in the sky of BOK.

Good job !!

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It would make sense. And they're seriously expecting an 8K release in May or sp? I hope they have some clever tech to make it playable; I'll be more than happy with a 4K 6DOF set up. Suddenly the VR future isn't looking quite so elongated. Here's hoping.

 

To go from where the VR tech is currently, to even 4K at 6dof ( on current systems)  in that short amount of time would be some very amazing tech...

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For all my skinners brothers, some stencils for future Spitfire Mk. V skins :)

attachicon.gifSpit_Stencils.jpg

 

Hi Pierre, not sure of your source for those stencils but 'Electorical' isn't an English word. It should be 'Electrical' so it makes me cautious about the accuracy of the rest of the stencils.

Cheers.

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Can't wait to spit fire with that plane^^

VR sounds cool but personally I'd rather have a bigger screen and see my stick and buttons. :)

Oh and kudos if you are doing what I think you're doing and that is releasing two planes a month.

Edited by =FEW=Hauggy

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Hi Pierre, not sure of your source for those stencils but 'Electorical' isn't an English word. It should be 'Electrical' so it makes me cautious about the accuracy of the rest of the stencils.

Cheers.

You are right. I also noticed "trestile".

The source is the "Aero Detail 8" by Shigeru Nohara & Isaku Okabe

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the BEST VR implementation when it comes to frame rate

 

Many thanks Jason for sharing with us this first impressions of an experienced VR user. You are putting the honey in our lips.

Once you enter in VR you have several weeks/months of excitement reviewing many experiences and games. This excitement decreases along the time since you get used to it.

 

What it surprises me from the tester feedback is his excitement being an experienced VR user, so the VR implementation seems to be very good indeed.

 

I assume the tester has a nice rig, can we know what CPU/GPU was the tester using? 

 

Regarding the VR API limitations, are they only related to gunner or bomber positions? (Personally I don´t use them)

Edited by chiliwili69

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The Spitfire looks excellent, the sooner it is in the game the better. :cool:

 

The inclusion of that iconic aircraft might bring in a whole new group of players once we finally get something in game that has a broader appeal, hope it is as good as it looks. :salute:

 

 

As for VR, never tried it and never will so to me resources would be better aimed at the maps and aircraft rather than the latest toy which will most likely only be used by a minority

of the community in the flight genre.

 

 

Thank you very much for the update, really appreciated, Pete.  :biggrin:

Edited by Missionbug

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Pimax looks good but sadly no translation only rotation. That is not good enough for me

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This might interest people, a Vive compatible headset with higher resolution and a lot cheaper, but no room tracking:

 

https://youtu.be/Wvl_15UNFYU

I checked out this vid that showed off Pimax 8K and immediately went to their site,where I found that they were in the development for 8K( as are others,).What difference would this make for this sim( by that I mean would developers have do another upgrade for it to work properly?)Is better resolution worth waiting for?Would it change frame rate in any way?I guess I'm asking :is it worth waiting for? For that matter should someone buy any of the VR hardware now if he or she can afford it or just wait until all the ducks are lined up for this & pehaps CloD? Oh yes :what is "room tracking?"
Edited by Blitzen

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Jason could you confirm whether the standalone version will support VR or should I start the process now to transfer to a steam copy to play VR on day one can't wait!
 

 

It's all one game with one .exe file.

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which will most likely only be used by a minority of the community in the flight genre

 

A minority yes, but a growing minority:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/27278-about-vr-and-vr-devices-used/

 

Like computers at homes in 1990, 

Like mobile phones in 1995

Like digital cameras in 2000

Like smartphones in 2005

 

Give VR five years and flight sims in monitors will be the minority   :P

 

"Never will" is a big word, specially if you have not tried it.

Edited by chiliwili69
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About the figures chiliwili69, yes I have to agree with you there, monitors a minority, could be. :o:  

 

 

 

 

"Never will" is a big word, specially if you have not tried it.

 

 

On that one I can as I have damage to my neck and nerve entrapment so flying even short missions is a problem for me, wearing a head set certainly not. ;)

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. :biggrin:

Edited by Missionbug

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Sounds as though The VR Experience in IL*2 will be very believe!! Can't wait,Thank YOu for the update.

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Somebody asked me what the specs were on the tester's rig I quoted in the DD. Here they are.

 

i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz

GTX 1080

16GB DDR5 RAM

200Gb SSD

Windows 10 (64 bit)

 

Jason

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Dear devs, since bombers don't benefit that much from VR, I think releasing the VR "early" for fighters is a good idea. As for bombersight and gunners, here's my 2 cents:

 

Bombsight: War Thunder does it just fine, by cloning the image for both eyes. This creates a flat image corresponding to looking into the bombsight with one eye. You can then overlay any clickable interface you want (the current bombsight interface). Job done. Later, if you want to get fancy, you could make a different system. Also, joining a plane into "bomberman" position at any time in the flight, as you currently join gunner position would be a good idea. 

 

Gunners: DCS Huey has an interesting aiming system for the side gunners and the copilot. Why not just use that? You could force the rotation axis to move the gun, while the translation axis will allow the player to realign his head to the iron sights. If all else fails, mouse control for the turret would suit just fine, as long as the player's virtual body would remain aligned with the gun while it moves. 

 

 

I can answer that. I think they meant "world-scale", instead of FoV (which should be 1-1 to the headset, to prevent dizziness). In War Thunder, the world scale is way off, making everything appear small. It's hard to estimate, but I'm guessing the objects feel about 70-80% of the real size. The movement is scaled too (you are also scaled down), so you don't notice anything wrong when moving. Your brain adjusts to the smaller 3d world rapidly, but if you've just put the headset on, then all the buttons and knobs around you will appear really tiny and fragile. Also, you tend to slam into the ground on landing (if looking at the cockpit), or flare too soon (if looking at the ground), as the ground is never where you think it is. DCS also has good 3d, although... maybe seems a liiiiitle bit too big, 105%. I guess.

 

Back in summer, IL-2 had a prototype for VR and while the head movement was horrible, the 3D scale was already spot on. Can't describe it. One more game which nails the 3D is Vivecraft (or just Minecraft for the Oculus). But although in that game you can scale the world up and down, it doesn't scale YOU up and down. So instead of controlling the 3D effect only, you either turn into a giant, or into an ant. 

 

 

Second generation might be a long time away. To access the keyboard, unfortunately nobody at SteamVR thought about implementing a "press a key once to show what it is, press it again fast to actually type it" solution for the keyboard. A keyboard with proximity sensor on each key or touch sensor would also do the trick (no such devices yet). So you type in blind. You can raise the HMD a bit on your face and look into the nosegap to spot your first key, then go from there. It's best to use a HOTAS anyway to map out everything you need. Writing in the chat is the only problem, so I suggest you map out macros for quick radio commands, similar to what War Thunder has by default. For weird plane controls, some keys are easy to find, such as the space bar, the arrow keys, some F buttons, Esc, etc.

 

Using the hand controllers to push those small buttons is a silly idea. I'm not mean to you, you'd only realize it if you had them. Seriously, those things are bulky. Great for holding swords and guns, great for pointing at things, but you're supposed to always hold them and never let them out of your hand. Maybe in the future(decades?) we will get some haptic gloves that you can still wear while holding the stick. 

 

If you want to choose one HMD now, probably the Oculus is more on your alley, if you can live without room experience for the next few years. 

 

Thank you for this detailed VR description. Had no idea Warthunder and DCS were like that in VR, very cool to hear. I just assumed every game has a 1:1 ratio in VR because it's VR and you're there. No surprise IL2 will be the best for VR, as right now playing on just one 27" screen I still get the best feeling of flight with IL2 over any of the others.

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Excellent work!

 

If it is possible, please release a fighter only version of VR beta first and continue to work on the more challenging bomber sight/ gunner views. I think the majority VR enthusiast are fighter pilots.

 

Many thanks to the developers!

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Very nice. The spit looks great, i cant wait to fly it. I think the vanilla VVS skins are not as exciting but i look forward to seeing more RAF skins.

 

Regarding VR, i just tried the Vive for the first time ever in a haunted house tour experience.

 

The best part was how immersive it was. Walking off the edge of a plank was scary as hell and i event felt that vertigo sensation. Also, i felt no lag at all, which is something i worried could happen with VR headsets.

 

The bad side was the screen's quality. With a white background you could see the grey area separating each pixel. You could also see the red green and blue lights of each pixel even when it was a white screen. The second con was that the headset is kind of heavy and it tends to fall forward with the weight. Granted I didn't spend too much time adjusting it but it looks like its an inherent issue with how they are designed.

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Very nice. The spit looks great, i cant wait to fly it. I think the vanilla VVS skins are not as exciting but i look forward to seeing more RAF skins.

 

Regarding VR, i just tried the Vive for the first time ever in a haunted house tour experience.

 

The best part was how immersive it was. Walking off the edge of a plank was scary as hell and i event felt that vertigo sensation. Also, i felt no lag at all, which is something i worried could happen with VR headsets.

 

The bad side was the screen's quality. With a white background you could see the grey area separating each pixel. You could also see the red green and blue lights of each pixel even when it was a white screen. The second con was that the headset is kind of heavy and it tends to fall forward with the weight. Granted I didn't spend too much time adjusting it but it looks like its an inherent issue with how they are designed.

With 4k pimax all people report you don't see the space between pixels. I would wait till June to see if they will add 6dof to their 4k set and read some reviews afterwards. Also for 8k set they only show one eye at a time at 120Hz. You get the same effect and smoothness. A new technique. And I think they call it brainwarping officially. Edited by TunaEatsLion

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The most exciting thing about VR to me at the moment is that it will attract more players - meaning more revenue, meaning continued development.

I don't see myself pulling the trigger on VR for quite some time.

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With 4k pimax all people report you don't see the space between pixels. I would wait till June to see if they will add 6dof to their 4k set and read some reviews afterwards. Also for 8k set they only show one eye at a time at 120Hz. You get the same effect and smoothness. A new technique. And I think they call it brainwarping officially.

 

That's my plan exactly. They seem like quite a creative bunch; hopefully than can pull it off without needing a bleeding edge rig.

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On that one I can as I have damage to my neck and nerve entrapment

 

My apologizes, I didn´t know that. :huh: 

 

In that case TrackIR will minimize your neck movement.

I hope that the VR fans like me will not end suffering neck damage as well, since the neck has to work much more.

 

Whishing you also the best! :salute:  

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Regarding the head movement in VR (sorry for off-topic). It is much more natural compared to the movements with an "old" head tracker. Me too had often problems with the neck when using my TrackIR, because I often had some uptight positions with the head in turning fights, flying curves or finding switches in the cockpit hidden behind the throttle or stick. Turning your head (even a bit) to one side and trying to keep your eyes on the screen caused me some pain in the neck.

Yes, with a VR HMD you have to turn your head much further to both sides to have a look around. But it feels more natural, you don`t feel that much cramped. It is much easier to see all corners of your cockpit.

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I bought and used the OR devkit extensively some years back. Of course it has 1:1 movements, so you do need to move your head more than with a TrackIR. However, if you have a swivelling office chair that helps A LOT with the movements. It made using the OR much less strenuous on the neck.

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Regarding the head movement in VR (sorry for off-topic). It is much more natural compared to the movements with an "old" head tracker. Me too had often problems with the neck when using my TrackIR, because I often had some uptight positions with the head in turning fights, flying curves or finding switches in the cockpit hidden behind the throttle or stick. Turning your head (even a bit) to one side and trying to keep your eyes on the screen caused me some pain in the neck.

Yes, with a VR HMD you have to turn your head much further to both sides to have a look around. But it feels more natural, you don`t feel that much cramped. It is much easier to see all corners of your cockpit.

Same here, while testing in the HE-111 my wife walked in the room and asked why I was looking over to the left and at the floor, I said I'm not, I'm looking at my levers and settings! It just gives that feeling of being right there!

ok sorry for OT.

 

I'm looking forward to the Spit. I was more a Hurricane guy in other games but it does look nice.

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I'm looking forward to the Spit. I was more a Hurricane guy in other games but it does look nice.

 

:good: 

 

You and me both, I absolutely love that plane!

Really looking forward to flying it in this sim in VR.

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Spit looks fantastic... can't wait!  :salute:

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The Spitfire looks excellent, the sooner it is in the game the better. :cool:

 

The inclusion of that iconic aircraft might bring in a whole new group of players once we finally get something in game that has a broader appeal, hope it is as good as it looks. :salute:

 

 

Thank you very much for the update, really appreciated, Pete. :biggrin:

This!

 

I am hoping the Spit V comes in with whatever the maximum reasonable performance can be expected and it can hold its own in experienced hands. It is among the most iconic aircraft in the west, despite its low appeal in the east, and stands to draw in new customers IF IT REVIEWS WELL. An all western themed planeset/server has real potential, even if the map below is an eastern one. Spits V 109's has a certain familiar sound about it.......

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf

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This!

 

I am hoping the Spit V comes in with whatever the maximum reasonable performance can be expected and it can hold its own in experienced hands. It is among the most iconic aircraft in the west, despite its low appeal in the east, and stands to draw in new customers IF IT REVIEWS WELL. An all western themed planeset/server has real potential, even if the map below is an eastern one. Spits V 109's has a certain familiar sound about it.......

 

If it's hobbled like the P-40 including a Spit could do more damage than good.

 

Just observing and thinking out lout.

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I cant wait to test it, im really curious to know if its like a Yak 1, if im not to far off i read somewhere that these two are pretty equal in handling and overall performance, i could be missremembering things here but something along the line.

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I suspect performance will be on par but the handling will likely be different - nuanced at least. It should be better at mid to high(er) altitudes but worse on the dec performance wise. How much remains to be seen.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf

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Does anyone know if I would be able to purchase and fly the P-40 if I only have BoS (not BoM)?

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