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Need Help with Awards and Medals


Jason_Williams
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Jason_Williams

Everyone,

 

We need help listing all the possible awards for pilots during the war for both the VVS and Luftwaffe.

 

We also need to know the general criteria for being awarded such medals and awards. Please give a BRIEF explanation.

 

Please provide any relevant info below i this thread.

 

Jason, Han and Sneaksie

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I./ZG1_Panzerbar

Dear Jason.

 

I wrote large article on russian forum about award sistem for Luftwaffe and VVS KA. It is in russian.

 

It cover needs for be awarded. Covered:

 

Luftwaffe:

-Fighters

-Level bombers

-Assault (Schlacht) aviation

-StuKa aviation

-Heavy fighters

 

VVS KA:

-fighters

-assaults

-bombers

 

Period of analisys - Stalingrad battle - july 17, '42 - febr 02, '43 

 

If You interested, I can add Battle of Moscow period (1941) and Battle of Kuban (spring 43), but there will be not much difference.

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I did read Panzerbar's post (including all the funny aspects Google Translate adds to the text  :lol: ) and he has pretty much nailed it. To summarize:

 

Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse (Iron Cross 2nd Class)

Eisernes Kreuz 1. Klasse (Iron Cross 1st Class)

Ehrenpokal für besondere Leistungen im Luftkrieg (Honor Cup for exceptional accomplishments in Aerial Warfare)

Deutsches Kreuz in Gold (German Cross in Gold)

Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes (Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross)

Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes mit Eichenlaub (Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves)

Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes mit Eichenlaub und Schwertern (Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords)

Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes mit Eichenlaub, Schwertern und Brillianten (Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds)

 

The latter two were founded by publication in the Reichsgesetzblatt of September 28 1941 (as was the German Cross in Gold). They should not really be achievable within the usual confines of a campaign unless the player does fly a pretty constant campaign ranging from Moscow 41 to Kuban 43. Without near-constant transfers in between units (which did not happen in reality and should not happen in the campaign, either) this is just not achievable.

 

Criteria-wise it is very difficult to define any general criteria. For fighters the "achievements" may be easier to count, but even then the criteria changed based upon the near-astronomic number of kills claimed by the fighters. For example a Knight's Cross went for 20 kills in 1940 while the same award in 1943/1944 was not given before the pilot had achieved 45 to 50 kills. We may try to have some kind of "average" system for fighters, though:

 

Iron Cross 2nd Class 2-3

Iron Cross 1st Class 8

Honor Cup 15

German Cross in Gold 30

Knight's Cross 45-50

Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves 100-120

Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords 200

Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds  250

 

Other branches of the Luftwaffe (bombers, Stuka, ground-attack etc) received awards for much different criteria. While there were some pilots who received high awards because of their individual claims on enemy tanks or ships (i.e. Rudel) most awards went for continued performance in combat (aka a very serious number of missions + maybe some individual achievements), as reward for outstanding leadership and good unit performance (especially relevant for bomber and Stuka unit commanders). It may be virtually impossible to translate this practice into award criteria that can be used for the campaign and in fact the player may (realistically) be challenged to achieve more than an Honor Cup or at best a German Cross in Gold in a bomber, Stuka or Ground-Attack campaign.

 

And lastly the Frontflugspangen (as Panzerbar explained in his text) were handed our purely on the number of combat missions flown by a pilot. I'll have to look up which of those he posted in his text actually existed in the timeframe we have to operate in (since I seem to remember that the one for ground-attack pilots wasn't founded until mid- to late 1944). 

Edited by csThor
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I./ZG1_Panzerbar

Also, I can add: even in Luftwaffe, high awards (RK and higher) were political-dependant. There were many "forgotten" awards.

Examples:

Aug. 1942, most RK were awarded for ~50 Abschussen. But Oblt Friedrich-Karl Müller, StaKa 8./JG 53, got RK on 14.09.42  only for 100 abschussen. Then on 23 sept 42, he got Eichen Laube for 101 abschussen.

Fw Wilhelm Crinius, pilot in 3./JG 53, got RK and RK-EL in the same time - on 23.09.42  for 100 abschussen.

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Depends, Panzerbar. For example Alfred Grislawski never joined the Hitler Youth and while that made it impossible for him to study this (and his father's communist past) didn't prevent him from getting the Knight's Cross for "just" 43 kills on July 1 1942.

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Please consider some "secondary" awards;

 

VVS

 

1) Medal "For the Defence of Moscow"

post-3713-0-24904100-1475764434_thumb.jpg

 

2) Medal "For the Defence of Stalingrad"

post-3713-0-62556100-1475764446_thumb.jpg

 

3) Medal "For the defence of Caucasus"

post-3713-0-66248800-1475764455_thumb.jpg

 

These medals were given for any kind of participating in battles (for us - BOM, BOS, BOK).

Probably you could give them for better or worse finish of each Battle (for example - if you died no more as 2-3-5 times or something like that)

 

4) "Wound stripes"

Easy wound  - red stripe

Heavy wound - yellow stripe (see below)

post-3713-0-21917600-1475766863_thumb.jpg

 

LW

 

1) So called "Оperation clasps"

They were different for fighters, bombers, ground-attack pilots and so on.

Bronze clasp = 20 combat flights

Silver  = 60

Gold = 110

post-3713-0-26314900-1475765702_thumb.jpg

 

2) Piltots badge. You could give it after some learning missions or for a first succesful mission.

 

3) Wound Badge.

1st time wound - Bronze

2nd time or 1st time but average - Silver

3rd time or 1st or 2nd time but heavy - Gold

 

4) "Kuban shield" (Ärmelschild Kuban) - this is some analog of USSR Medal "For the defence of Caucasus". Conditions could be the same or slightly harder.

 

Sorry for my english, I hope it's better then Google translate

Edited by Lofte
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I./ZG1_Panzerbar
Depends, Panzerbar.

 

I used wrong word. I mean relations with the Gruppe command e.t.c. Some pilots had good fame, some - not.

 

Example:

 

In the end of 1940, almost all Bf110 pilots with ~10 kills got RK. ZG26 and ZG76 guys got it. But not ZG2 guys. Tratt had 12 kills on Bf110 to the end of 1940. Schmidt - 15, and there were others. NO RK for ZG2 pilots. Reason?

Edited by I./ZG1_Panzerbar
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The Hero of the Soviet Union was awarded at the same time as the Order of Lenin, so I dunno how the game would simulate that. Also, I recall someone before mentioning there were specific award requirements for fighter and Sturmovik pilots.

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216th_Lucas_From_Hell

You could leave the same requirements for both so that they are both awarded at the same time automatically. Alternatively, you can list both as one medal though I don't know how that could be worked out.

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You could leave the same requirements for both so that they are both awarded at the same time automatically. 

 

That would probably be the best way to do it.

 

Other awards that are good for the Soviets for the timeframe the game covers: (source)

  • Order of the Red Banner: awarded to military personnel of the Soviet Army and Navy who display exceptional courage, self-denial, and valor during combat.
  • Order of the Red Star: awarded to ground forces or naval personnel of all ranks and collectively to units for outstanding service in defense of the Soviet Union in both peace and war.
  • Order of the Patriotic War 2nd Class: Established 20 May 1942. Awarded to officers and enlisted men of the armed forces and security troops and to partisans, irrespective of rank, for lesser personal valor in action.
  • Order of the Patriotic War 1st Class: Established 20 May 1942. Awarded to officers and enlisted men of the armed forces and security troops and to partisans, irrespective of rank, for skillful command of their units in action.

Please consider some "secondary" awards;   VVS   1) Medal "For the Defence of Moscow"   2) Medal "For the Defence of Stalingrad"   3) Medal "For the defence of Caucasus"   These medals were given for any kind of participating in battles (for us - BOM, BOS, BOK). Probably you could give them for better or worse finish of each Battle (for example - if you died no more as 2-3-5 times or something like that)

 

Yep, good idea!

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Please consider some "secondary" awards;

 

VVS

 

1) Medal "For the Defence of Moscow"

2) Medal "For the Defence of Stalingrad"

3) Medal "For the defence of Caucasus"

 

1) Date of establishment May 1, 1944

2) Among the first awardees June 1, 1943 the Party and Soviet workers were awarded Stalingrad

3) Date of establishment May 1, 1944

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1) Date of establishment May 1, 1944

2) Among the first awardees June 1, 1943 the Party and Soviet workers were awarded Stalingrad

3) Date of establishment May 1, 1944

 

A don't see any problems with that

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A don't see any problems with that

 

I don't, either. ROF has similar awards for WWI service (Victory Medal, Honour Cross of the World War, etc.) that were not created until well after the war's end. 

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A don't see any problems with that

I don't, either. ROF has similar awards for WWI service (Victory Medal, Honour Cross of the World War, etc.) that were not created until well after the war's end. 

There may be different opinions. Only this is not very good.

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I have checked my sources and as I had remembered the Frontflugspange für Schlachtflieger was founded only in 1944. Before pilots flying fighter-bombers got the one for fighters or destroyers (depending on the type they flew).

Edited by csThor
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I./ZG1_Panzerbar

I have checked my sources and as I had remembered the Frontflugspange für Schlachtflieger was founded only in 1944. Before pilots flying fighter-bombers got the one for fighters or destroyers (depending on the type they flew).

 

JG - Frontflugspange für Jäger

ZG, Schl.G. - Frontflugspange für  Zerstörer und Schlachtflieger

KG, St.G., SKG  - Frontflugspange für  Kampf- und Sturzkampfflieger

SG - Schlacht (from may 1944)

NJG - Frontflugspange für Nahnachtäger

NJG 2 - Frontflugspange für Fernnahnachtäger

Aufkl.Gr., NAGr, FAGr. - Aufklärer

TG, KGr.z.b.V., LLG - Frontflugspange für Transport- und Luftlandeflieger

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  • 3 weeks later...
=ARTOA=Bubi87

The "Frontflugspanne" was commissioned in Bronze, Silver and Gold

 

Bronze= 20 Combat Mission

Silver = 60 Missions

Gold = 110 Missions

 

In addition there was created a Tag attached to the "Goldene Frontflugspange" called "Anhänger zur goldenen Frontflug-Spange"

It was created in june 1942 and given

-for 500 combat missions (Fighters)

-for 400 combat missions (Destroyer/Divebomber) 

-for 300 combat Missions (Bomber and Rescue)

-for 250 combat Missions (Recon and Nightfighter)


I have checked my sources and as I had remembered the Frontflugspange für Schlachtflieger was founded only in 1944. Before pilots flying fighter-bombers got the one for fighters or destroyers (depending on the type they flew).

 

Are you sure about that? My source said that both Zerstörer and Schlachtgeschwader was founded 13 May 1942

 

Edit: its a bit weird, seems there are two versions of the Spange for Schlachtgeschwader. If a second german could check please :-) http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Orden/oue.html

Edited by =ARTOA=Golden_Phoenix87
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I./ZG1_Panzerbar

Frontflugspange for Zerstorer and Schlachtflieger - was awarded for ZG and Schl.G pilots.

From october 1943, Schl.G. and St.G. were merged into SG units, and from may 1944 - SG pilots got its own Frontflugspange.

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=ARTOA=Bubi87

Ah well we missed a very common medal type. THe ones for being wounded by the enemy!

 

In germany there were three types of the "Verwundetenabzeichen"

 

-Black for 1 and 2 woundings (please not that not the number of wounds count but the whole process. So if you get hit by a grenade, not every whole is counted. But if you get hit and three weeks later again= 2 times wounded!)

-Silver for 3 and 4 woundings

-Gold for more than 4 woundings

 

Its not a medal anyone would like to receive, but still one of the most often awarded ones, so it should not be missed in your Career.

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Hello, I write a very detailed algorithm for most Luftwaffe awards during the whole war (need to be extended on attack planes and bombers - need to see Rudel career to get more info), it is .NET and c# but can be adapted easily...

The criteria developed during the war and were very different from western to eastern these I wrote here are a compromise. 

Sim until now were not very accurate in these criteria so I decided to do it for myself (in 3rd party you can find my application)

 

 

Here you are these few lines of code, feel free to ask if needed or adapt:

 

public void criteria()
        {
            //fighter squad
            isFC = false;
 
            //attack squad
            isAC = false;
 
            //bomber squad
            isBC = false;
 
            //points system
            //aerei = single engine planes
            //aerei2 = 2 engines planes
            //aerei4 = 4 engines planes
            int punti = aerei + (aerei2 * 2) + (aerei4 * 3);
 
            //planes count
            //aerei = single engine planes
            //aerei2 = 2 engines planes
            //aerei4 = 4 engines planes
            int aereiTot = aerei + aerei2 + aerei4;
 
            //mission count
            //missioni caccia = fighter missions
            //missioni attacco = attack missions
            //missioni bomb = bomber missions
            int missioniTot = missioniCaccia + missioniAttacco + missioniBomb;
 
 
            //1 = feldwebel
            //2 = leutnant
            //3 = oberleutnant
            //4 = haupman
            //5 = major
            //6 = oberstleutnant
            //7 = oberst
            //8 = generalmajor
 
            //rank system - NOT HISTORICAL - need to be corrected
            int limitRank = missioniTot + (punti/2);
            int rank = (int)(Decimal.Floor(missioniTot / 15)) + 1;
 
            //alternative rank system - NOT HISTORICAL - need to be corrected
            //int rank = 1;
 
            //if (limitRank >= 1300)
            //    rank = 8;
            //else if (limitRank >= 1000)
            //    rank = 7;
            //else if (limitRank >= 800)
            //    rank = 6;
            //else if (limitRank >= 600)
            //    rank = 5;
            //else if (limitRank >= 400)
            //    rank = 4;
            //else if (limitRank >= 200)
            //    rank = 3;
            //else if (limitRank >= 100)
            //    rank = 2;
 
 
            //if (rank > 8)
            //    rank = 8;
 
            setRank(rank);
 
            //is iron cross II class           
            bool ic2 = false;
 
            //second class
            if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1939, 9, 1)) >= 0 && (punti >= 1 || aereiTot >= 3))
            {
                setIC2(false);
                ic2 = true;
            }
               
            //first classe
            if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1939, 9, 1)) >= 0 && (punti >= 3 || aereiTot >= 8))
                setIC1();
 
            //german cross gold
            if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1941, 9, 28)) >= 0 && (punti >= 20 || aereiTot >= 30))
                setGC();
 
            //abbattuto means "downed" - wound badge
            //WB1 = black
            //WB2 = silver
            //WB3 = gold
            if (abbattuto > 16){
                setWB(3);
                if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1940, 6, 1)) >= 0 && !ic2)
                    setIC2(false);
            }
                
            else if(abbattuto > 8){
                setWB(2);
                if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1940, 6, 1)) >= 0 && !ic2)
                    setIC2(false);
            }
            else if(abbattuto > 4)
                setWB(1);
 
            //Clasps
            //missioni caccia = fighter missions
            //missioni attacco = attack missions
            //missioni bomb = bomber missions
            //ADD NUMERALS PENDANTS MANGEMENT
            if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1941, 1, 30)) >= 0)
            {
                if (missioniCaccia >= 110)
                    setFC(3);
                else if (missioniCaccia >= 60)
                    setFC(2);
                else if (missioniCaccia >= 20)
                    setFC(1);
 
                if (missioniAttacco >= 110)
                    setAC(3);
                else if (missioniAttacco >= 60)
                    setAC(2);
                else if (missioniAttacco >= 20)
                    setAC(1);
 
                if (missioniBomb >= 110)
                    setBC(3);
                else if (missioniBomb >= 60)
                    setBC(2);
                else if (missioniBomb >= 20)
                    setBC(1);
            }
 
            //knight cross level
            //1 = knight cross
            //2 = with einchelaub
            //3 = with swerten
            //4 = diamanted
            //5 = golden einchelaub - just in case ;)
            int valRC = 0;
 
            //adesso means "now" - the moment to verify criteria
            if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1939, 9, 1)) >= 0 && adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1940, 7, 15)) < 0){
                if (punti >= 40 || aereiTot >= 20)
                    valRC = 1;
            }
            else if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1940, 7, 15)) >= 0 && adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1941, 6, 21)) < 0){
                if (punti >= 40 || aereiTot >= 20)
                    valRC = 1;
                if (punti >= 75 || aereiTot >= 37)
                    valRC = 2;
            }
            else if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1941, 6, 21)) >= 0 && adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1941, 9, 1)) < 0)
            {
                if (aereiTot >= 25)
                    valRC = 1;
                if (aereiTot >= 40)
                    valRC = 2;
                if (aereiTot >= 70)
                    valRC = 3;
            }
            else if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1941, 9, 1)) >= 0 && adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1941, 11, 1)) < 0){
                if (aereiTot >= 30)
                    valRC = 1;
                if (aereiTot >= 60)
                    valRC = 2;
                if (aereiTot >= 70)
                    valRC = 3;
                if (aereiTot >= 100)
                    valRC = 4;
            }
            else if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1941, 11, 1)) >= 0 && adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1942, 5, 1)) < 0){
                if (aereiTot >= 40)
                    valRC = 1;
                if (aereiTot >= 80)
                    valRC = 2;
                if (aereiTot >= 100)
                    valRC = 3;
                if (aereiTot >= 120)
                    valRC = 4;
            }
            else if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1941, 5, 1)) >= 0 && adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1943, 4, 1)) < 0){
                if (aereiTot >= 50)
                    valRC = 1;
                if (aereiTot >= 100)
                    valRC = 2;
                if (aereiTot >= 150)
                    valRC = 3;
                if (aereiTot >= 200)
                    valRC = 4;
            }
            else if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1943, 4, 1)) >= 0 && adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1943, 11, 1)) < 0){
                if (aereiTot >= 75)
                    valRC = 1;
                if (aereiTot >= 110)
                    valRC = 2;
                if (aereiTot >= 200)
                    valRC = 3;
                if (aereiTot >= 250)
                    valRC = 4;
            }
            else if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1943, 11, 1)) >= 0 && adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1944, 6, 1)) < 0){
                if (aereiTot >= 100)
                    valRC = 1;
                if (aereiTot >= 125)
                    valRC = 2;
                if (aereiTot >= 220)
                    valRC = 3;
                if (aereiTot >= 300)
                    valRC = 4;
            }
            else if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1944, 6, 1)) >= 0 && adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1944, 12, 29)) < 0)
            {
                if (aereiTot >= 75)
                    valRC = 1;
                if (aereiTot >= 125)
                    valRC = 2;
                if (aereiTot >= 250)
                    valRC = 3;
                if (aereiTot >= 300)
                    valRC = 4;
            }
            else if (adesso.CompareTo(new DateTime(1944, 12, 29)) >= 0)
            {
                if (aereiTot >= 75)
                    valRC = 1;
                if (aereiTot >= 125)
                    valRC = 2;
                if (aereiTot >= 250)
                    valRC = 3;
                if (aereiTot >= 300)
                    valRC = 4;
                if (aereiTot >= 400)
                    valRC = 5;
            }
 
            //if needed now award RC -> knight cross
            if (valRC > 0)
                setRC(valRC);
        }
Edited by Ansirial
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  • 3 months later...

I'm helping the team find information they need for the new Career. On their behalf, I'm trying to find out some sort of information about how many ground targets that bomber and ground attack pilots would need to destroy in order to earn medals and other awards. The only exact information I have right now on the German side is in relation to one Hs 129 pilot by the name of Rudolf-Heinz Ruffer, who was awarded the Knight's Cross for destroying 72 enemy tanks. For the Soviet side, bomber and ground attack pilots needed to fly a certain number of missions to earn awards, but that's about all I have. 

 

Anyone have more precise information about this?

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curiousGamblerr

Was reading Memoirs of a Stuka Pilot today and one of the author's wingmen was awarded the Iron Cross, First Class for completing 40 missions. This was in France in 1940, however, so I'm not sure how applicable it is. Sorry I'm not more helpful!

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The problem for bomber, Stuka and most ground-attack pilots on the Luftwaffe side is that "targets destroyed" feature only very little into this equation. For bombers for example that category will be simply unusable - for the most part bombers attacked area targets from a certain altitude and did not even see individual "targets". Awards like the Iron Cross (2nd and 1st Class) were usually given for a certain number of combat missions and higher awards (like the Knight's Cross) were usually reserved for commanding officers and awarded for continued display of bravery at the head of their unit and especially for continued leadership of it. As I wrote in the Medals thread here in this subforum:

 

 

 

Other branches of the Luftwaffe (bombers, Stuka, ground-attack etc) received awards for much different criteria. While there were some pilots who received high awards because of their individual claims on enemy tanks or ships (i.e. Rudel) most awards went for continued performance in combat (aka a very serious number of missions + maybe some individual achievements), as reward for outstanding leadership and good unit performance (especially relevant for bomber and Stuka unit commanders). It may be virtually impossible to translate this practice into award criteria that can be used for the campaign and in fact the player may (realistically) be challenged to achieve more than an Honor Cup or at best a German Cross in Gold in a bomber, Stuka or Ground-Attack campaign.

 

My advise would be not to use "hard criteria" such as "destroyed X number of tanks" for awards but design a points system running behind the scenes which gives the player an advancement for flying missions and for individual achievements (succeses). 

 

EDIT: Let me throw in a suggestion for points values.

 

Mission flown = 0.25 points

ground object (lorry, car, artillery etc) = 0.5 points

tank = 0.75 points

aerial kill = 1 point (not applicable in a bomber - an aerial kill would be given to the gunner, not the pilot)

 

If we assume that the Luftwaffe uses these awards

 

Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse (Iron Cross 2nd Class)

Eisernes Kreuz 1. Klasse (Iron Cross 1st Class)

Ehrenpokal für besondere Leistungen im Luftkrieg (Honor Cup for exceptional accomplishments in Aerial Warfare)

Deutsches Kreuz in Gold (German Cross in Gold)

Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes (Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross)

Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes mit Eichenlaub (Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves)

Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes mit Eichenlaub und Schwertern (Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords)

Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes mit Eichenlaub, Schwertern und Brillianten (Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds)

 

then one could use these point thresholds for awards.

 

Iron Cross 2nd Class - 5 points

Iron Cross 1st Class - 10 points

Honour Cup - 30 points

German Cross in Gold - 50 points

Knight's Cross - 75  points

Knight's Cross w Oak Leaves - 120 points

Knight's Cross w Oak Leaves & Swords - 175 points

Knight's Cross w Oak Leaves, Swords & Diamonds - 250 points

 

This way the system could work for any type of aircraft, not just fighters or dedicated tank-busters like the Hs 129 (post 1942) - even though for fighters one may add an additional variable "minimum number of kills" (I listed some potential numbers in the medals thread). Achieving high awards was very difficult and for most simply impossible, the campaign should reflect this and require a serious investment in time. I would, however, abstain from making any reference to winning or losing missions in this case, the demands are high enough already to be seriously challenging and adding yet another "gamey" hurdle would be counterproductive.

Edited by csThor
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Dont forget for VVS pilots to include financial bonus for air kills or flying fighters with bombs. Im ready to open a bank account in Gosbank ;)

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As far as I read about medals given to Russian Pilots , they usually follow promotions and conduct in face of the enemy . I read and seen pictures on IL 2 pilots mostly officers and P 39 pilots. Different kill tally and missions but same amount of medals. Some up to 3 Hero of Sovietunion. I hardly see any structure in this other than conduct and rank.

I propose promotions and medals somehow relate to survivability , efficiency and kill ratio . Staying alive is a feat in itself 

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte
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Maybe flight leaders should also get points for all the ground targets their wingmen kill(is there going to be better AI for ground attack planes?). This way, you can order your wingmen to attack targets of opportunity while you kill the actual target(but for some reason, the wingmen always forget their target and return to following you whenever an enemy is killed, please change this).

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  • 2 weeks later...
I./ZG1_Panzerbar

I'm helping the team find information they need for the new Career. On their behalf, I'm trying to find out some sort of information about how many ground targets that bomber and ground attack pilots would need to destroy in order to earn medals and other awards. The only exact information I have right now on the German side is in relation to one Hs 129 pilot by the name of Rudolf-Heinz Ruffer, who was awarded the Knight's Cross for destroying 72 enemy tanks. For the Soviet side, bomber and ground attack pilots needed to fly a certain number of missions to earn awards, but that's about all I have. 

 

Anyone have more precise information about this?

Luke, look into my article on russian forum. I posted there info for fighters, bombers and assaults for both sides for 1942.

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Luke, look into my article on russian forum. I posted there info for fighters, bombers and assaults for both sides for 1942.

 

Yep, I have used a lot of information from your article. :) Thanks for taking the time to post it!

Edited by LukeFF
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  • 2 weeks later...

This is a little off topic since it doesn't really answer the question or offer any data that you are soliciting but hopefully my perspective on the criteria for awarding decorations might be helpful to you because I think it important to understand the methods by which decorations are awarded more intelligently in order to find a better solution to how they can be awarded in a game.

 

Typically, awards for valour are not given in any branch of any military for an arbitrary number of units destroyed or missions flown. They are given for acts of valour.

 

Of course some awards are given for specific criteria like an American Purple Heart or a Wehrmacht tank destruction badge but they are exceptional in that regard. While an award may be reported as having been given for something like "The destruction of 20 enemy planes" for example, you will find that this is by no means a consistent and reliable means of establishing the criteria (even if some sources cite it as being definitive) for that particular award since it can be (and will have been) given for many different criteria during its' history. It is the case that, historically, the reason cited as being grounds for the award of a decoration only reflects the decisions that led to that particular award being given due to the individual circumstances of the combat or phase of combat during which that particular award was given.

 

Therefore it is not really accurate to award decorations in this arbitrary way and pursuing it will only lead to vague or confusing results.

 

Furthermore, valor can be ascertained as being either an individual act of conspicuous bravery or a display of cumulative and consistent bravery covering a period of time. It would be more accurate and probably much simpler to assign awards to players on the basis of what types of missions the player has completed and how consistent and successful they have been in meeting objectives. This could be achieved by assigning each mission a level of predefined difficulty and logging the players' performance before correlating that with an established criteria for any given award. This would more accurately measure the player's' ability to succeed under difficult circumstances and allows the possibility for awards to be given in line with more historically accurate criteria.

 

(Also, the award of a high level of decoration for one conspicuous act of valour should be very rare so the criteria should be extremely demanding, otherwise such awards should be earned over time)

Edited by Ace_Pilto
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  • 2 years later...
On 2/6/2017 at 9:51 PM, csThor said:

The problem for bomber, Stuka and most ground-attack pilots on the Luftwaffe side is that "targets destroyed" feature only very little into this equation. For bombers for example that category will be simply unusable - for the most part bombers attacked area targets from a certain altitude and did not even see individual "targets". Awards like the Iron Cross (2nd and 1st Class) were usually given for a certain number of combat missions and higher awards (like the Knight's Cross) were usually reserved for commanding officers and awarded for continued display of bravery at the head of their unit and especially for continued leadership of it.

 

I know this is an old topic, but I just wanted to jump in here to say this is, in general, the way not only the German awards are awarded but most of the medals for other nations as well. In other words, fighter pilots can earn awards of course by scoring X number of victories, but those same awards can also be earned by either (a) destroying a large number of soft targets (i.e., trucks, buildings, trains, and guns) or (b) completing a certain number of missions. So, bomber pilots indeed can earn the more prestigious awards, but it will typically take a bit longer than fighter pilots.

Edited by LukeFF
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