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Il-2 Battle for New Guinea

Battle for New Guinea  

184 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see this as future expansion ?

    • Yes
      159
    • No
      25


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I disagree with any pacific theatre for the time being. All it is going to do is divide the community into people with the expansion and people with BoS and BoM. Some are not able to afford paying 50 bucks for a theatre and 6 planes. The upside of continuing the eastern europe theme is the fact all aircraft from previous expansions somewhat fit and can be used on mp missions. I doubt that can apply with zeroes and the like.

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I disagree with any pacific theatre for the time being. All it is going to do is divide the community into people with the expansion and people with BoS and BoM. Some are not able to afford paying 50 bucks for a theatre and 6 planes. The upside of continuing the eastern europe theme is the fact all aircraft from previous expansions somewhat fit and can be used on mp missions. I doubt that can apply with zeroes and the like.

 

Classic zero sum game fallacy.

 

You are assuming that the community is fixed in size.

 

It is not.

 

It can grow and it can shrink.

 

Nobody can predict the future, but I rather suspect that another theater will result in the community growing. The Pacific might take some folks away from the EF maps, but it will also bring a whole lot of other folks in. And once the shininess of the Pacific wears off, folks will move back and forth regularly, both the the "old" hands and new. Everyone profits. 

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I disagree, this is not 1946 where theaters are free for all to try and experience allowing them to easily hop back and fourth, rather you must drop 50 bucks (70 for the bonus planes) for a small selection and a map. It will infact divide new and current player bases regardless if it grows.

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Again, wrong - you're a late comer.

We all payed for the "Pacific Fighters" expansion before it was all combined into "1946" later.

 

Now Hiro, I voted yes because I want this, but I still think the Slot/Henderson/Guadalcanal makes sense first.

Edited by Gambit21
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We all payed for the "Pacific Fighters" expansion before it was all combined into "1946" later.

I still got my copy. As well as CFS 2. Those things really bring great memoirs.  

 

Guadalcanal is not wrong approach either :) 

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Classic zero sum game fallacy.

 

You are assuming that the community is fixed in size.

 

It is not.

 

It can grow and it can shrink.

 

Nobody can predict the future, but I rather suspect that another theater will result in the community growing. The Pacific might take some folks away from the EF maps, but it will also bring a whole lot of other folks in. And once the shininess of the Pacific wears off, folks will move back and forth regularly, both the the "old" hands and new. Everyone profits. 

Yarp

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im confused on why the F4F shouldnt be included. VMF-212 operated out of Henderson Field on Guadalcanal using F4F's and claimed 64.5 kills including Japanese Ace Toshio Ohta, They were on and off active in the Solomons and Bismarck Sea until Rabaul fell.

 

Personally I would rather see the F4U, but if you're envisioning more early campaign, then I dont see why the F4F wouldnt work

Edited by 7./JG26_Sprite

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I'd also like to point you to Jason's response when I brought a similar issue up when they announced BoM:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/13556-thank-you-macchi-202-news/?do=findComment&comment=233777

Premium planes dont even have to have been present during the campaign (Even though F4F irrefutably was involved on New Guinea). Personally, I think more revenue would be generated from an F4F or F4U than a boomerang as a premium

Edited by 7./JG26_Sprite
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I see your point. But its a unique opportunity to add in Boomerang, while F4F can be added pretty much with any setup from 1941 to 1944 (either F4F or later FM-2), though for one I think this is solved Sprite anyway. Midway without Wildcat is unthinkable. And we are getting Midway sooner than New Guinea.

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I see your point. But its a unique opportunity to add in Boomerang, while F4F can be added pretty much with any setup from 1941 to 1944 (either F4F or later FM-2), though for one I think this is solved Sprite anyway. Midway without Wildcat is unthinkable. And we are getting Midway sooner than New Guinea.

 

I agree. Plenty of oppurtunities to have a Wildcat later (probably even sooner) than BoNG, but the Boomerang was a lot rarer.

 

Besides, look at how sexy this thing is!

 

CA-13-Boomerang.jpg

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My proposal

 

 

 

1st Release covering 1942 - Oct 1943:

 

IJN/IJA

  •  
  • A6M2-N-Mod 2
  • A6M2 Mod 11
  • Ki-43-II KAI
  • D3A2  Mod 22  (Mod 12 was only a test bed and failed range tests)
  • Ki-49-IIa
  • G4M1 Mod 11
  • Ki-45-KAIc
  • Ki-61-I HEI
  • Ki-84-I Ko  (SPECIAL A/C SET)

RNZAF/RAAF

  • P-40E-1
  • P-39D-2
  • SBD-3
  • Blenheim IV
  • Beaufighter Mk IIF
  • CAC-12
  • Hurricane Mk.II
  • A-20
  • Spitfire Mk.VC (SPECIAL A/C SET)

 

This!

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I agree. Plenty of oppurtunities to have a Wildcat later (probably even sooner) than BoNG, but the Boomerang was a lot rarer.

 

Besides, look at how sexy this thing is!

 

CA-13-Boomerang.jpg

 

Well, I know you are an Aussie, but that aircraft is not sexy... ''fugly'' but never sexy, lol!

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Well, I know you are an Aussie, but that aircraft is not sexy... ''fugly'' but never sexy, lol!

Fugly is sexy down here, mate... we are upside down, after all :lol:

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I guess this would need an update to keep it on course and valid since Midway makes it clear that there will be Val and most importantly A6M2. And it also clear the obvious problem of Boomerang vs F4F.

 

D3A could really be replaced by B6N1 since during Operation Ro Go Japanese CinC Koga sent 173 planes of the 1st Carrier Squadron, Third Fleet to reinforce the 200 aircraft that Admiral Kusaka still had in his Eleventh Air Fleet in New Britain. If not than Ki-45 Kai is a great replacement either, since there were Toryu units in New Guinea and they would be a decent addition against both bombers and ground targets. 

 

A6M2 should be replaced in rooster by Ki-44-II, while there werent any Shoki fighters in this region it makes no problem as it is a premium. 

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Planeset

Japanese                                 Allied

Nakajima Ki-43-II                 -   Lockheed P-38 F-5-LO
Kawasaki Ki-61-I                  -   Republic P-47 D-2-RE Model
Aichi D3A2 model  22           -  Bristol Beaufighter Mark Ic
Mitsubishi G4M1 model 12   -  North American B-25 C
 
Premium 
Mitsubishi A6M2 model 21    -  CAC-13 Boomerang 
 

 

Not sure about that. There were really no Wildcats in the area since ... March 1942. And to move Boomerang I would have to get rid of P-47 or P-38, either of these was a backbone of Allied air offensive. Unless we would drop Beaufighter and assume Boomerang is purely a ground attacker :/

 

 

Thanks, I really appreciate that. I just happen to like writing and doing this things, even if we cant have all of them, its still lot of fun to think what we may get :)

 

   Well, in my point i do understand all your proposition, is full historical and that is one (important) aspect but not the only to take in consideration at the time of choosing carefully what planes to put in a module of any scenario.

 And as you can see, here they are following a rule, there are a little relation between those fighters in BOM, BOS, BOK but there is not like that here in your selection.

 

 Those Jap planes are ok, but, there are no problem about, but, when you confront those against those allied ones,

 

KI43   very light fighter (empty W: 1.910 kg)

KI61   mm, lets say normal one

A6M2 very light fighter  (empty W: 1.680 kg)

 

VS

 

P38  Very heavy fighter (empty W: 5.800 kg)

P47  Very heavy fighter (empty W: 4.536 kg)

 

Beaufighter  Very heavy fighter (empty W: 7.072 kg)  This one is also another very heavy two engines fighter/trikefighter 

 

 

 So, in real live could be like was, but here will never be the same, here will be a massacre for the japos if those P fly like suppose to fly (run, attack, run). So have to (at least) be a little relation in that.

 

Zero vs Willcat  (i understand you reasons) but of course is more you know, matching, they are like Romeo and Juliet. :biggrin:  

 

 But, i am agree with this idea or something like this, any scenario of pacific i am agree, and i would buy (i want the P38 :) ) So if you understand my point, but anyway i placed agree on this proposition.

 

 Regards

Edited by E69_MigSu

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Sorry for the late reply, I was occupied recently with some stuff. 

 

I doubt it will be the case, it wasnt in old Il-2 Pacific Fighters. Yes, if they would utilize hit and run tactics they would be hard to touch, but first they would need to have altitude in which case Japanese have advantage with superior rate of climb. Second thing is ability to dodge, with extremely good rear visibility Ki-43 or A6M2 should be able to dodge all those passes. Oscar pilots claimed that as long as they were aware of presence of the enemy and that he was coming they could dodge him any time and he had no chance to turn inside of them. 

 

It is sort of asymmetrical setup, yes. But thats what makes it all more interesting, playing one side gives one type of experience and switching to the other gives completely different. Beauty of diversity :)

Edited by =LD=Hiromachi
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Sorry to necro but this particular topic has a great deal of interest for me. 

 

I disagree with any pacific theatre for the time being. All it is going to do is divide the community into people with the expansion and people with BoS and BoM. Some are not able to afford paying 50 bucks for a theatre and 6 planes. 

 

The unfortunate capitalistic reality is the developers should not be concerned with those that cannot afford something; they do not pay their bills. Moreover the idea that such an undertaking would split the community is not true. You are assuming the sim community is a zero sum game. 

 

There are those of us that prefer PTO over ETO (myself counted in that number) who would be foaming at the mouth at such an expansion. THEY are the ones that the devs should be interested in. They will be lining up shouting....

 

79af6b3bc5b23131ace1d835c402fa444ebd7cfc

 

Also I would wager the vast majority of people that have purchased BoS & BoM do not fly online & the same would be the case for a hypothetical BoNG. Sure there will be some migration from PTO to ETO so some maps may see less players for awhile but that will be offset by new blood into the community drawn by the change to fly a Zeke or Buffalo or a Wildcat. 

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I'm in all I really want is the Boomerang and Beaufighter, and New Guinea map to 1CGS standard and I'm a happy camper.

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We already have P-40 E Klaus. For the above there could be added P-40 K but I'm not entirely sure it should be a priority. At given time P-40s were already flying more ground attacks than aerial sorties, most of the job did Lightnings and Thunderbolts.

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We already have P-40 E Klaus. For the above there could be added P-40 K but I'm not entirely sure it should be a priority. At given time P-40s were already flying more ground attacks than aerial sorties, most of the job did Lightnings and Thunderbolts.

Well, the E is probably the Worst of all. A K or M would be nice, as would a B or C. Any Merlin powered onces in the Pacific as well?

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Merlin powered P-40s were never used in New Guinea, only on Guadalcanal. First unit in combat zone with P-40Fs was 68th Fighter Squadron, which arrived at Guadalcanal in December 1942.

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Nobody said they were Farky, Klaus asked if any was deployed in the Pacific and I gave an answer about the ones known to me. 

And lack of P-40 F on New Guinea is not a problem at all, thats why there are Premium machines. Though I stand behind CAC Boomerang. Too unique to be left out. 

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Very cool suggestion, Hiromachi.  I look forward to the next one you come up with, too!!

 

This seems like it would be a really interesting match up.

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Nobody said they were Farky, Klaus asked if any was deployed in the Pacific and I gave an answer about the ones known to me. 

And lack of P-40 F on New Guinea is not a problem at all, thats why there are Premium machines. Though I stand behind CAC Boomerang. Too unique to be left out. 

 

I know that nobody said anything about Merlin powered P-40s over New Guinea, I just wanted to recall it.

 

As for your proposed planeset  - is for "late 1943" New Guinea, since P-47s come to SWP in summer 1943. After very interesting and decisive battles like Gona-Buna, Wau, Bismarck Sea, Milne Bay etc. Not ideal for me, but I fully understand why do you like Thunderbolts and Lightnings.

 

CAC Boomerang was indeed unique, but as a fighter ... well, not good. Unfortunately, meaningful tactical recon is not what we will see in any simulator, therefore Boomerang will be useless. Beaufort is in my opinion better choice, because it was the only torpedo bomber in SWP, which makes them pretty unique too.

 

I think that nice counterpart to Beaufigher can be Ki-45 and counterpart to Val can be Vultee Vengeance. So, here is some idea -

 

Planeset -

Ki-43 - - - P-38

Ki-61 - - - P-47

Ki-45 - - - Beaufighter

G4M1 - - - B-25

D3A2 - - - Vengeance

One pair will be premium of course.

 

I left out Zeros, P-40s, P-39s and A-20s, just because they are or will be in game already.

 

Anyway, I don't think that we will get New Guinea anytime soon.

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CAC Boomerang was indeed unique, but as a fighter ... well, not good. Unfortunately, meaningful tactical recon is not what we will see in any simulator, therefore Boomerang will be useless.

The Boomerang was used as a ground attacker, filling the same role that the Bf-109 E-7 performs in BoM.

 

Planeset -

Ki-43 - - - P-38

Ki-61 - - - P-47

Ki-45 - - - Beaufighter

G4M1 - - - B-25

D3A2 - - - Vengeance

One pair will be premium of course.

 

I would replace the B-25 with the Beaufort, and the P-47 with the Boomerang. The RAAF should have a large presence in the game, as New Guinea was Australian territory.

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I know that nobody said anything about Merlin powered P-40s over New Guinea, I just wanted to recall it.

No worries, must have misunderstood you buddy.

 

 

 

CAC Boomerang was indeed unique, but as a fighter ... well, not good. Unfortunately, meaningful tactical recon is not what we will see in any simulator, therefore Boomerang will be useless. Beaufort is in my opinion better choice, because it was the only torpedo bomber in SWP, which makes them pretty unique too.

 

 

 

The RAAF should have a large presence in the game, as New Guinea was Australian territory.
 

 

This is precisely why I have included CAC Boomerang, to give a credit to RAAF. Boomerang is not as bad aircraft as it may seem, while it became obsolete by the time it reached front-lines in meaningful numbers in Il-2 it still can be useful, not only a a ground attacker but even as a fighter. In terms of speed and climb rate it can tackle with Ki-43, furthermore in comparative trials with P-40 E this one proved to be more maneuverable than Kittyhawk and latter ones speed advantages was not sufficient for it to dictate a type of combat desired by its pilot. 

 

 

 

I would replace the B-25 with the Beaufort, and the P-47 with the Boomerang.

Beaufort appearance was much lesser than B-25s. In 1943 skies were dominated by big numbers of B-25s and I dont think there is anything that could replace or justify removing of Mitchell.  

 

 

 

I think that nice counterpart to Beaufigher can be Ki-45 and counterpart to Val can be Vultee Vengeance.

Both Val And A6M2 should be replaced considering Midway lineup. If D4Y is not included in Midway which I highly desire, then I'd include it here. Ki-45 is not a counterpart of Beaufighter, Nick was designed as twin engine escort fighter and once it was realized that such an idea was more of a wishful thinking, they started adjusting it - changing armament to improve firepower so that Nick could attack bombers. Ki-45 could carry two bombs but overall it would be a very poor ground attacker, unlike Beaufighter which was great.

 

A6M2 could be replaced with A6M3 model 32. Those were fairly unique to this theater and would make sense. 

 

 

 

Anyway, I don't think that we will get New Guinea anytime soon.

Neither do I, but since it was released quite a while ago and speculating costs nothing ... one can speculate :)  

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Beaufort appearance was much lesser than B-25s. In 1943 skies were dominated by big numbers of B-25s and I dont think there is anything that could replace or justify removing of Mitchell.  

I see, in that case I would say keep the B-25, and have the Beaufort replace the Vengeance.

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Ki-45 is not a counterpart of Beaufighter, Nick was designed as twin engine escort fighter and [..] it was realized that such an idea was more of a wishful thinking.

 

Like the P-38? :P

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P-38 is a different kind of beast, single seat, with turbocharged engines and very good performance. Ki-45 had a decent performance but firepower was lacking, had crew of two and wasnt exactly the most successful aircraft around. It became effective once 37 mm gun was introduced and it started hunting bombers. Nick is neither a Beaufighter, nor Lightning. 

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P-38 is a different kind of beast, single seat, with turbocharged engines and very good performance. Ki-45 had a decent performance but firepower was lacking, had crew of two and wasnt exactly the most successful aircraft around. It became effective once 37 mm gun was introduced and it started hunting bombers. Nick is neither a Beaufighter, nor Lightning. 

 

I know I was just teasing :-)

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Salute All,

 

I would like to see this idea, IL-2 Battle For New Guinea.  A nice flow and change of combat theatres to support IL-2 in general.  

 

:salute: 

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