Tactical Air War

[Tuesday]

The way you talk to people is wildly insulting - grow up.

 

If you really can't handle the removal of technochat (which at this point is just an idea), clearly this server isn't the right fit for you.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I just love being Lectured by Gamers on what Real Flying feels like. 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Klaus is right. When you release the winch you pull the jack 2 times to make sure, flaps you push/pull a lever, airbrake is another jack - you pull or push those with your muscle memory after a short while. If you check you just put the hand above it, and feel where it is without looking.

 

That feedback is missing when you have buttons instead of half a dozen levers! You can't feel a button or a lever ingame. Except for throttle, only a few people have more levers, most even don't have RPM levers! Some map RPM+Throttle on one for that reason! And most don't have analogue cranks they could feel instead of buttons. We got Technochat for that.

 

Klaus' reasoning is perfectly right.

 

If you Tuesday feels that he came a cross a dick, well, welcome to German culture. We dont talkwalk around the bush. He's just being straightforward. Ignore that, and better concentrate on the facts, not feelings.

Edited March 25, 2018 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[Tuesday]

Calling people "Autistic OCD Patients" is not being "straightforward," it's being a dick.

 

Trying to put himself on a pedestal because he flies a plane and everyone else is just a "gamer" is being a dick.

 

That's not German culture, that's being a jackass.

 

Edit: so faux-German culture is fine, but US/Canadian is not?  Well, can't fight with stupid.

Edited March 25, 2018 by 19//Tuesday

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

It doesn't matter. Stop being offended, stop ignoring his points, and please leave that US/Canadian SJW culture out of this community.

Edited March 25, 2018 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

33 minutes ago, 19//Tuesday said:

Calling people "Autistic OCD Patients" is not being "straightforward," it's being a dick.

 

Trying to put himself on a pedestal because he flies a plane and everyone else is just a "gamer" is being a dick.

 

That's not German culture, that's being a jackass.

 

Edit: so faux-German culture is fine, but US/Canadian is not?  Well, can't fight with stupid.

I didn't call anybody anything. I just pointed out that Autism and OCD would disqualify someone from becoming a Pilot for the Luftwaffe or VVS. Nowadays it's possible for People with Autism to fly, and they are exceptional at Operating their Machines, yet they must always be accompanied by a Safety Pilot. 

 

And I was simply pointing out that I, and most normal Pilots don't think like Autists, as they have a completely different Method of Approaching the Problem of Flight, based on that kind of Counting and Clicking. 

I, when I'm flying visualize Problems 3D, I think and turn them differently, I Function more "Monkey-ish" while Autists go about stuff like Calculators. We are all Monkeys, with Monkey Brains and we are Monkey Flyers with all the accompanying Problems. And for Monkey like me the Technochat is the closest to Realtitty.

Edited March 25, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

"Realtitty " really Klaus? 

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

@1./JG2_Little_D I tried your suggestion about counting the neccesary clicks and even timing the secs you need to hold down the key... it isn't possible in a practical way. Because of the way the control input works in BoX if you use single clicks they not always count, and sometimes they give more or less input, about the time from 0% to 45% it advances so fast I couldn't even measure the time it took reliably... already the error in pulling out the finger from the key was too big to make a possible measurement (sometimes at 40- sometimes at 60, I couldn't nail it at 45).

 

The only way I can see it possible is if with a cockpit texture mod you could "paint" markings in these controls so you know the important positions, the two examples with Yak-7's neutral radiator and mixture control:

 

 

I am in favor of removing the engine status messages, like combat/emergency and overheating, but I don't agree with removing the inputs.

[=BES=Senor_Jefe]

On 3/24/2018 at 10:40 AM, 1./JG2_Little_D said:

1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

I just love being Lectured by Gamers on what Real Flying feels like. 

Klaus, you've piqued my interest.  When you say fly competitively, what do you mean?  I've always wanted to take my certificate further and either race or do aerobatics.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

28 minutes ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

Klaus, you've piqued my interest.  When you say fly competitively, what do you mean?  I've always wanted to take my certificate further and either race or do aerobatics.

Just not too much. I partake in Local  Gliding Competitions, don't have the Hours or Money for Aerobatics License yet. Normally DG-500-18 elan, I like having a Second Pair of Eyes and the Company of Pilots with more Competition Experience than me. I'm still quite Fresh. 

 

Euregiocup is up soon, and that means 50 Planes up at the same time in the same Thermal. It's extremely stressy. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Cpt_Siddy]

The problem with techno chat, as it is now, is that it displays warnings about engine states that did not exist at the time. 

 

There were no buzzers that started to buzz when the needle on temps went to the red. 

 

However, technochat is somewhat needed to display the leaver positions, because you have no physical feeling for them and the markings on them are poorly displayed. 

The information that is available on the readouts on measurement instruments vs the positions of leavers and stuff like that. This is the issue here. 

Too much technochat makes instrumentation panel redundant. Too little makes the plane operation too hard. 

 

I doubt that anyone in here disagree with this position. However, if you do, i would want to hear why. 

 

 

1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Just not too much. I partake in Local  Gliding Competitions, don't have the Hours or Money for Aerobatics License yet. Normally DG-500-18 elan, I like having a Second Pair of Eyes and the Company of Pilots with more Competition Experience than me. I'm still quite Fresh. 

 

Euregiocup is up soon, and that means 50 Planes up at the same time in the same Thermal. It's extremely stressy. 

 

 

As a fellow man who flown gliders, do you feel that the wing in ground effect in BoX is little off when landing? 

I always felt that the flaring part on most planes makes them drop too fast, and thus having too much velocity on touchdown. 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Not sure. Not sure how much of a Difference it would make with most Aircraft, except the 52 maybe. 

 

If you try the 202, it feels extremely floaty, others like the 111 never seem to be able to do that Ground Effect Take-Off I love the DC-4 for. I honestly don't really know and every time I try I come to a different conclusion. 

 

 

[JG7_X-Man]

4 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

It's not "Full Real", it's "Hardcore", the two are different. You basically want a more Gamey Server that Suits your "Elite" Needs. Also: Unlike you most here have active Lives besides Il-2 and can't spend 8 hours on learning how many Seconds are what and how many Clicks do What. 

 

And as someone who flies somewhat competitively in Real Life and 2Gs at a time, not a single Word you said is True. Pilots in WWII weren't Autistic OCD Patients for the most Part, and neither am I, so no, that Counting/Clicking doesn't work for me and wouldn't for anyone in his right mind, at least not at Realistic Levels. 

 

And we don't want more Complex, but more Realistic Sims, we aren't Gamers, we are Simmers.

 

We also don't have the Possibility to modify our Cockpits, as is usual for most Pilots if Markers aren't Factory Items.

 

In any Case, a Pilot going to War would have flown his own Type before Battle and Mapped the Controls in his Muscle Memory. A purely Visualied Technochat without Numbers, Percentages or Warnings is the Closest Thing to Reality. 

Or in other Words, look at RoF Technochat in "Full Real" and that is what is the Closest to Real as you will get. 

 

Il-2 does Oversimplify it's Technochat a little, but removing it fully is just Unrealistic. 

 

This is what I as a "sim pilot" with only a few hours in a real Cessna Skyhawk and 172 have been saying all along! The harder developers make an aircraft to start/taxi/takeoff/fly/fight and land doesn't make it more real. It just make the sim harder to fly - that's all!

 

I hear these people ask for complex start procedures - OMG! Why would someone want to spend 30 mins to get an aircraft in the air? This is a simulator, true - but a game none the less!

 

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by JG7_X_Man

[Cpt_Siddy]

19 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Not sure. Not sure how much of a Difference it would make with most Aircraft, except the 52 maybe. 

 

If you try the 202, it feels extremely floaty, others like the 111 never seem to be able to do that Ground Effect Take-Off I love the DC-4 for. I honestly don't really know and every time I try I come to a different conclusion. 

 

 

 

Thats my conclusion too. most, but not all, of the planes lack the floatiness when near the ground. Even with flaps at full, it feels like only the half of what it should be. 

 

Generally it is not issue but.. when landing on unprepared fields, you want to do the soft, glide landing and avoid powered landing because unprepared strips are really rough on your air frame. Perhaps we are just spoiled by the hyper light composites available now. The 3000kg air frame might feel different.

7 minutes ago, JG7_X_Man said:

 

 

I hear these people ask for complex start procedures - OMG! Why would someone want to spend 30 mins to get an aircraft in the air? This is a simulator, true - but a game none the less!

 

 

 

 

WW2 aircraft, from hangar to air, involves 99% of ground crew work and 1% of pilot anyways. Even more so in the winter. 

[Blackhawk_FR]

On 23/03/2018 at 12:58 PM, wellenbrecher said:

That's not Technochat, that's a separate Help thing that can be toggled independently.

 

 

Where please? I was flying without having all those advices (like slow down to... don't run on combat power during nav, etc etc), and one day, without changing anything, those annoying messages started to appear. 

It's possible to desactivate that, while keeping % power, pitch, mixture, flaps, etc?

 

 

EDIT: I've found it...

Edited March 26, 2018 by F/JG300_Faucon

[=LG/F=Kathon]

On 23.03.2018 at 7:00 PM, =CAF=xThrottle_Geek said:

Is there a timeframe for an update for next campaign to include 3.001?

It's really hard to say. New issue with durability of the buildings has been revealed lately so we have to devote some time to this problem: 

 

 

 

[JaffaCake]

If the simple goal of leaving technochat in is to have more VVS players - why not just lock down majority of the LW configurations and nerf their planesets? It already happened with the aircraft too - because VVS outright declined to fly against "superior" F4 when they didn't have anything to show for it (one of the older TAW campaigns).

 

And all the people claiming that we get our own "technochat" by the "feels" - well setup yourself a joystick and you can see the axis. You can use headtracking to get a quick glance at the temp gauges as well.

 

If people argue that the lack of hardware should be compensated for by technochat - why no allow mouseflying for those who do not have the joystick then?

 

 

Edit: On the topic of cold starts - I have noticed some people spending time to sit on the ramp waiting for their engine to warm up only to boost off in the air straight from the ramp. I quickly discovered that you did not need to wait for pe2 engines to get warm to be able to take off from the ramp either - its fairly easy and engines get warm very quickly running at 100%. On the exceptionally rare occasions when the engine stalls due to cold start you just get a ditched aircraft that is back in 2 missions, no big deal.

Edited March 26, 2018 by JaffaCake

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

The Cold Starts are a bit stupid for a Couple of Reasons. 

First of all, the Game's Thermodynamics on the Ground Suck, they simply don't warm up as they should, too slow and almost impossible to Overheat on the Ground.

 

The JuMo and DB Engines had 1 to 5 Minutes Maximum before Shutoff or Take-Off, no matter the Temperature. 1 Minute in Summer, 3 in Spring and Autumn, 5 in Winter.

 

That's mostly it.

[JG5_Schuck]

Quite clearly Techno chat has nothing to do with Real life flying (and yes i have flown fixed wing prop: Chipmunk, Tigermoth, Cessna and a couple of gliders!)

I think the issue is, techno chat allows you to gain the absolute max out of every plane, every time, ie you can set 87% throttle, with 15% oil rad, and 84% mixture every single time

you fly, and fly flat out with out fear of damaging you plane, which quite clearly gives you an advantage.

Even in real life you couldn't be quite that precise, and you rely on your gauges and not so much lever position for feed back.

Something you don't need to do with techno chat on.

As for not being able to fly without it on, there is not a single plane that cannot be flown in this game without it on. Use the instruments and gauges, they are beautifully modeled and work!!

In fact i think there is quite a skill to be able to manage your plane (especially with manual prop, mixture etc) and i gain quite a satisfaction from it, and would respect an opponent far more if he didn't use it either.

I'm not saying it should be mandatory, its a matter of choice,

but there should at least be an option for those who don't want it , that includes servers as well.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I quite agree that the Current Technochat is far too accurate and informative. It needs to be broken down to a purely input Levels, and those only with Low Resolution, between 5 and 10 Steps. 

 

So in my Ideal  5 Position Lever Icon would Resolve less than 12.5% Input as ( _. ) between 12.5% and 37.5% as ( \. ) between 37.5% and 62.5% as ( | )  62.5% to 87.5% as ( ./ ) and 87.5% to 100 as ( ._ ) 

 

I couldn't find any images, but I hope you get what I mean. Either this or a System somewhat similar to RoF. 

[CSW_GC3_Chroust]

maybe a stupid question ( sorry ) - removing the technochat also means removing the digital compass ?

Edited March 27, 2018 by 3.IAP/UO_Mira*

[CisTer-dB-]

10 hours ago, JG5_Schuck said:

 

As for not being able to fly without it on, there is not a single plane that cannot be flown in this game without it on. Use the instruments and gauges, they are beautifully modeled and work!!

 

Can you share how you do it on the I-16?

How will I know my water radiator position on the PE-2?

HE 111?

...

Edited March 27, 2018 by ATAG_dB

[Barnacles]

 

1 hour ago, ATAG_dB said:

Can you share how you do it on the I-16?

How will I know my water radiator position on the PE-2?

HE 111?

...

I know you asked Schuck, but for me. You cannot know exactly what radiator opening you have to the nearest 1%, but, for those planes you can see the levers or the radiator themselves and one you get used to it, you remember how long a press of the button or key opens a radiator roughly. (they all seem to move at the same rate.) Then for confirmation I monitor temperature.

I recognize that not everyone would like this, but I personally like the drill of making an adjustment, then monitoring systems, readjusting periodically etc. You do have to get away from fussing that someone else may have a more optimal setting by a couple of percent too, but once I made peace with that I found it quite Zen.

[CisTer-dB-]

2 hours ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

 

I know you asked Schuck, but for me. You cannot know exactly what radiator opening you have to the nearest 1%, but, for those planes you can see the levers or the radiator themselves and one you get used to it, you remember how long a press of the button or key opens a radiator roughly. (they all seem to move at the same rate.) Then for confirmation I monitor temperature.

I recognize that not everyone would like this, but I personally like the drill of making an adjustment, then monitoring systems, readjusting periodically etc. You do have to get away from fussing that someone else may have a more optimal setting by a couple of percent too, but once I made peace with that I found it quite Zen.

You would have to show me where are those water rad lever on the 111? or the PE2 (witch aren't levers) they are toggle type switch on PE so it is impossible to know, the next time we fly together. The beer on me

  

[Willy__]

5 minutes ago, ATAG_dB said:

You would have to show me where are those water rad lever on the 111? or the PE2 (witch aren't levers) they are toggle type switch on PE so it is impossible to know, the next time we fly together. The beer on me

 

IIRC the water rad leavers for the 111 are on the right side of the seat. You can actually see the rad shutters on the wings on the Pe2, so you can use that to adjust along with monitoring the temps.

[Bushmantw]

You can also use some external utility that can read your directx axis imput and display the exact value in a separate window or overlay on your main screen so feel free to remove them in the game 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Bushman_
typo

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

Honestly i think removing tech chat would hurt the gameplay more than it would benefit it. A lot of people don't fly with an HOTAS setup.

[Max_Damage]

Removing GPS or technochat is really stupid. Cold starting : likewise.

There are a couple of things that set real life pilots and gamers apart:

-real life pilots have training (including navigation and familiarisation with their area of operations). they prepare for every flight.

-real life pilots have G-meter which makes flight intuitive and easy.

-real life pilots dont have to look through a 30 inch monitor wirh very limited fov, buggy head tracking and low resolution.

-real life pilots have comfortable work place with good control devices such as throttle stick and rudder + an appropriate amount of auxiliary controls.

 

Trying to match gaming and IRL is really really dumb and leads to very poor games. You gamers will never be pilots so pls dont try to be one and dont make the actual game absurd. Gaming is always handicapped when compared to flight.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Max_Damage

[Blackhawk_FR]

22 minutes ago, Max_Damage said:

Trying to match gaming and IRL is really really dumb and leads to very poor games. You gamers will never be pilots so pls dont try to be one and dont make the actual game absurd. Gaming is always handicapped when compared to flight.

 

I agree with you, but I'm almost sure there are more "real pilots" than you think playing at this game 

[KingstonDE]

@ Klaus_Mann,

 

lol realy? You dont know me and insult that i have no RL? I am working hard for my mony, have a wife, my kids and friends. AS for this hobby and for others, if you want to make it right it cost you a lot of time and mony. Or what do you think how many time a modelers ( with RC or without ), will spend. Dont even talk about the mony it cost.  And 8 hours a weak is not mutch. There are hobbys out there that need mutch more time and mony. Also you need a good time management to bring RL and hobby together. Also the most impotant thing, you need a goverment that allowes you to spend the time and mony you need for your hobby .

 

Also is "Full Real" on a flight sime for me, that you try to simulate to fly your plane blind without have to look all the time into the cockpit to check your imputs or on a techchat. As they did it or as a pilot does it today, like you driveing a car. You train your muscels your sence, your brain etc. As you post it.

Hardcore is for me in a flight sim 1x life per pilot in a campaign, you would wonder how different you and your enemys are flying arround and fighting each other. As this would be to frustrating for a game, there is of course different solution for this. 1 would be, for this day/week you are out and need to start again. And this also has influense on tactics, etc.

 

@ SuperEtendard,

 

thank you for even test it and take you the time. How Box do the imputs when you push a button is mutch harder than in other sims, but has also a lot do do with your hadware. Maby it is my long training ( imput sense on my finger and my clock inside )and my hadware, but i have a constant 2% per klick. 

 

I will try it again, maby than it makes more sense. This counting seconds or clicks is only an example for guys that dont want to spend mony in hadware, but still want to fly there planes they like, blind as they did and do in RL. It is not perfect and looks maby gamy, but i prefer the pilot who tries to fly blind as they did then with the technical preconditions he has over an pilot that says i cant get the sence i need because i dont have the hardware and use techchat.

 

As i wrote in other post, i also start with 30€ stick, no rudder, tastatur and headswitch view and techchat on.

Than i went up to servers like WoP with gps for own and enemys and all other helps you can get. But over time o went to more and more realistic server till the point i got ask to fly with soemone together. Sone after this i went with them on a "full real" server, no gps no infos, fu... As i still was not sure if i should spend mony for better hardware on this flightsim i learn and trained me to fly with the hardware i had blind on this server.

And over this it comes to the second, click counting. But this was also a kinde of training and conditioning

to my sense, but only in my fingertips. It works perfect after time. Or do you realy think that i or others, that use the hardware they have to fly blind, have the time in dogfight to count seconds or clicks? Not realy as there is also a lot comunication goes on in TS and other stuff to do. But when you tain this as real pilots would train there muscels, sense,brain, etc. you dont need to cound clicks/seconds, you have this in your backminde your sense or how ever you whant to call it. This is closer to RL as techchat.

 

Of couse it is not realy satisfying, so for me the question was comeing up, fly on this server with what you have, or upgrate your hadware or leave the server. I went for the hardware ( Stick with axes, rudder pedals and Track IR) next step would be VR.

 

If the people that dont see this as there main hobby and dont want to spend monny in hardware this is fine, but than please let the peole that call this there hobby and spend they mony to fly on a server that support this with no techchat ( right hardware or training ), when you than cant fly eney more on this server, good. Learn to fly blind or buy you the hadware you need to fly blind etc. and come back or search for a other server. As we, that see this as our hobby spent mony to get the right hadware to fly blind, full real, hadcore or how ever you want to call it. And we want to fly under the same conditions against each other. And this has nothig to do with some feelings about an elite or so, no it is only a sepperation of full time flyiers ( there main hobby ) and funflyers.

 

You can have all the techachts on on servers like WoP/ Berloga, but at soon it goes to a 24/7 "full real" or "hardcore" server, or to a campaign server like TaW or soon ACG than please learn to fly your plane blind

with the hardware you have or go and search for an different server that fits to you. Or buy you the hardware you need. Same goes for peole that need the gps to know where they are or the targets, etc. Realy you want to fly online and cant even read a compas or a map? LoL.

 

And before you misunderstand this again, this has not to do with arrogance or elite, it is about the server that are online and to make a separation for the frequent flyers and occasion flyers, with different servers setups. And no it is not a removal and it will not shatter the comunity. This has been around for years in flightsims

and other computer simulations. Also for me this sepeeration makes the comunity stronger as you have different servers for different knowleg. So a better learningcurve etc.

 

So i hope now it makes more sense. If I'm not sorry, but I can not express myself so clearly on the basis of a disease, it is difficult for me to find the right words and even more in english. But at least i know enough people that know or understand what i mean. Because as me they are for years in this hobby.

 

regards

 

Little_D

Edited March 27, 2018 by 1./JG2_Little_D

[Antiguo]

For my part, I support the elimination of the technochat and the virtual compass.
I think it would help the players to know the plane they are piloting.

........ it is enough to dedicate a time to him, all those helps you will not need them again.
regards

Edited March 27, 2018 by Ala13_Antiguo

[KingstonDE]

2 hours ago, Max_Damage said:

Removing GPS or technochat is really stupid. Cold starting : likewise.

There are a couple of things that set real life pilots and gamers apart:

 

Quote

-real life pilots have training (including navigation and familiarisation with their area of operations). they prepare for every flight.

 

Right, we also have training and are familiarisation with their area of operations and prepare for flight.

 

Quote

-real life pilots have G-meter which makes flight intuitive and easy.

 

Right, but with training you can get use to it and fly without. as it is a game as you said right, but still a simualtion.

 

Quote

-real life pilots dont have to look through a 30 inch monitor wirh very limited fov, buggy head tracking and low resolution.

 

Right, but again use training to get used to it. Also when you have the mony by you a system that can handle VR.

 

Quote

-real life pilots have comfortable work place with good control devices such as throttle stick and rudder + an appropriate amount of auxiliary controls.

 

Right, but so have the simmer ot the guy that has this as main hobby

 

Quote

 

Trying to match gaming and IRL is really really dumb and leads to very poor games. You gamers will never be pilots so pls dont try to be one and dont make the actual game absurd. Gaming is always handicapped when compared to flight.

 

Ah i got it, so someone that spend his time and mony, to get the right hardware together and do the training that is needed to oppereat in this sime like in RL is dumb and make this

actual game absurd. LoL

 

A simmer can come closer to your points with this game and his hardware, than a gamer can.

 

A simmer has an virtual life he cares about. A simmer trains to get better or to fly his plane blind. A simmer know how to navigate and to locate his actual position and on with hdg he need to fly to reach a target or base A simmer do taxiing, a simmer hold fire till he is shure about the target, a simmer dont do shouldershooting a simmer would insteed climb back up and cover the other fighter that are infight with the enemy. A simmer flys till fuel is out ( 100% at start ), ammo out or battle damaged, etc. A gamer need techchat and dont care about his virtual life. A gamer has not the hardware or the time that is needed. A gamer flys like an idiot low and slow to a hard defenced target and crays that nobody want to escort him. A gamer dont care about tactics or teamwork, a gamer flys when he makes a kill back to save it for his stats insteed of still covering or patroling the target/area, etc.

 

Yes of course we dont die or even have the strees or fear inflight, but stil you can simulat to a degree the RL if you whant.

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by 1./JG2_Little_D

[=BES=Senor_Jefe]

2 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

I agree with you, but I'm almost sure there are more "real pilots" than you think playing at this game 

It seems as though the real pilots (myself included) who have expressed their opinions and experiences, are on the side of not removing every piece of TC.  We (hope I can speak collectively) see removing the warnings and hints as okay, but not the raw %'s.  

 

I'll adapt, and it really isn't a big deal to me personally - mostly because I seem to die no matter what I'm doing.  My fear is what it will do to server population and side distribution. 

[KingstonDE]

27 minutes ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

It seems as though the real pilots (myself included) who have expressed their opinions and experiences, are on the side of not removing every piece of TC.  We (hope I can speak collectively) see removing the warnings and hints as okay, but not the raw %'s.  

 

I'll adapt, and it really isn't a big deal to me personally - mostly because I seem to die no matter what I'm doing.  My fear is what it will do to server population and side distribution. 

 

Hi as you know i see it the other way arround and know also real pilots that play flightsims and hate the techchat exactly because of that that people dont want to invest time or mony to fly blind. But maby as an ex fighterpilot and trainer for new pilots in the airforce he is not good enough or has no knowleg to say techchat are trainingsweels. Of course it is clear that even with the hardware to controll all axis and switches the plane you fly in this game and RL has it is not possible to fly like a real plane,  but closer than with techchat on, as you need also training to know the positions of the axis and switches and what it does to your plane. Not only where they stand on your desk and how you reach them blind specialy in VR, no you need also training to know how you have to move my arm, hand or even only my fingers on an axis to get  axis x,   in position x,  and this brings cooler x  in position x%. Yes fu.. i dont be so exact like the techchat with his1% possibillity, but close enough to RL. 

 

Also i think we all to it right now: ailerons, elevator rudder, all this i do with my arms hands, and legs and also need training to get a feeling on how fast or far i need to pull the controls to make a clean manover at different speeds. Do we have a techchat for this? No i think and hope. The rest is about the management from the other axis and switches in the plane. So you train yourself to fly the planes ingame with a joystick throttle and rudder without looking at them to know there position and what it does to your plane ingame, but when it comes to engine, cooler, mixture oppeartion, etc. you dont want to train or learn to do it also without looking ( blind ), insteed you go for techchat.

 

regards

 

Little_D

[=BES=Senor_Jefe]

Your fighter pilot friend has the tactile feel in cockpit, and a shite load of sensors.  BTW, if s/he flew fighters in the last 30 years, then they likely had a HUD, MFD's and all sorts of audible/ visual warnings, AKA technochat.  So I'm not sure you want to use that comparison for WW2 a/c.

 

Plus, your fighter pilot friend was trained on his aircraft over A LOT of time, and money.

 

My point is not that real pilots don't need need TC.  My point is that pilots know what they can feel and sense, that one cannot feel in this sim.  

 

BTW, not a single person in here was talking about stick control needing TC, so that was irrelevant.

 

I think we're forgetting a big thing here. And that is the fact that TAW isn't really meant SOLELY to make piloting more realistic/difficult.  What sets it apart from WoL  (besides GPS) is the combat and dynamic war experience.  

Remember, I'm all for removing 95% of it.  But I have yet to see a legitimate response or conversation of the ramifications.  It makes sense to the hardcore simmers, who are the obvious audience in this forum.  But, you run the risk of ostricizing those more casual simmers (notice I didn't say gamers) who populate the server.  Do we even know what percent of players follow the forum?

 

A lot of this "get VR and a switch panel and a joystick with 43 axis" is rubbish.  That's a pay-to play mentality and a poor excuse.

 

 

[JG5_Schuck]

14 hours ago, ATAG_dB said:

Can you share how you do it on the I-16?

How will I know my water radiator position on the PE-2?

HE 111?

...

 

You watch the temp gauge and adjust as necessary, 

I mean when you're driving your car you watch the speedo and adjust your speed, but you don't have to constantly look at where your foot is!

 

7 hours ago, Max_Damage said:

 

 

Trying to match gaming and IRL is really really dumb and leads to very poor games. You gamers will never be pilots so pls dont try to be one and dont make the actual game absurd. Gaming is always handicapped when compared to flight.

 

Who's trying to match it up?

The two are quite obviously different.

Although they do use a lot of simulation to train pilots nowadays (and no technochat in sight!!)

 

Anyway, as i said its a personal choice...... but at the moment its up to the individual, and not a server setting.

Which invariable means my opponent will have a distinct advantage if he uses it.

And my respect if he doesn't.

[216th_Jordan]

Technochat with input-values: Fine! Technochat that tells you about engine limits and damage you sustained as well as fuel level should be disableable by serverside option.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I can't wait to return to flying on April 4th. The amount of heated debate's lead getting thrown around on the forums, instead of by bullets ingame, gets disturbing. I hope TAW returns in the beginning of April as well.

[xThrottle_Geek]

Going slowly insANE subjecting myself to WoL............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................f/;lhbm/.zdf,nv.,ASNM.df,A /,SF,VZSB

[Haza]

Just now, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

Says a guy who sits playing serious internet pixel planes....

 

Perhaps he is 11?