Tactical Air War

[=AD=Kap-the-head]

4 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

you just did, the passive aggressive way 

Took the words right out of my mouth....

[Norz]

2 hours ago, JG4_Karl_Gratz said:

I am missing the blue whining about balancing!

 

JG4_Karl_Gratz, as you know I play both sides.

 

Do you need some facts that it balanced wrong way? I know, it is not about the balance (this server), but everyone knows that 3,4,5,6 maps are just a nightmare for the reds.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Norz

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

On 11/22/2020 at 4:30 PM, III./ZG1_HeTzeR said:

The server should be renamed to Tactical Air Draw and the side whos drawing first, gets a draw

 

Draw

 

Every goddamn Map we get a draw...(was it like this before?) and yes, of course its not everymap, but only 3 were something else

 

 

[[GCA]T1m270]

Possible bug with Kuban logic? 

 

Anapa defences up from no attack and Temruk not spawning/being attacked?

 

 

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

1 minute ago, [GCA]T1m270 said:

Possible bug with Kuban logic? 

 

Anapa defences up from no attack and Temruk not spawning/being attacked?

Cities not under attack randomly rise defenses to yield more ground targets on the map.

[AKA_Relent]

5 hours ago, [GCA]T1m270 said:

Possible bug with Kuban logic? 

 

Anapa defences up from no attack and Temruk not spawning/being attacked?

 

 

5 hours ago, mincer said:

Cities not under attack randomly rise defenses to yield more ground targets on the map.

As mincer said... it was an added feature (this or previous TAW), not in the original.  Also, FYI it’s in the manual:

 

3.4 Defense line

During each mission, cities attacked by tanks spawn defense lines, according to respective city defense strength. Sometimes an extra city will spawn it’s defense line even without being attacked. ...

[=FA=CATFISH]

not well thought out logistics

 

P.S. Переводчик перевел mincer  как мясорубка. Какое напыщенное самомнение  у обладателя ника )))

Edited November 24, 2020 by =FA=CATFISH

[=FA=CATFISH]

a couple of pages ago the reds were laughing about N+12 and now they're getting a blue strike

how many were left without a lovely flight?))

Edited November 24, 2020 by =FA=CATFISH

[=AD=Denisik_FL]

2 hours ago, =FA=CATFISH said:

not well thought out logistics

 

P.S. Переводчик перевел mincer  как мясорубка. Какое напыщенное самомнение  у обладателя ника )))

Опускаться до обсуждения чьих то ников, ну эт уже совсем низко...))

[Johnno]

kind of sad how the blues seem to just have given up...

[=FPS=Cutlass_RL]

3 hours ago, =FA=CATFISH said:

not well thought out logistics

 

P.S. Переводчик перевел mincer  как мясорубка. Какое напыщенное самомнение  у обладателя ника )))

 по сравнению с этим "напыщенным самомнением" ...:

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name==FA=Catfish

 

mincer -  РЕАЛЬНАЯ "МЯСОРУБКА"....

 

 

[=FA=CATFISH]

 

2 часа назад, =22AMG=Denisik сказал:

Опускаться до обсуждения чьих то ников, ну эт уже совсем низко...))

 

Уж по крайней мере обсуждение ников - это выше чем летать в одной команде с пилотом, который оправдывая свои грязные  делишки,  низкопоклонски приводит цитатки  в которых подразумевают ничтожность его родной страны

21.11.2020 в 19:54, =FPS=Cutlass сказал:

.....

"Don't expect that once you take advantage of Russia's weakness, you will receive dividends forever. Russians always come for their money. And when they come, don't rely on the Jesuit agreements you signed, which are supposed to protect you. They are not worth the paper they are written on. So you should either play fair with the Russians, or not play at all. " (C) Bismarck

 

.................................................

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by =FA=CATFISH

[=AD=Denisik_FL]

42 minutes ago, =FA=CATFISH said:

 

 

Уж по крайней мере обсуждение ников - это выше чем летать в одной команде с пилотом, который оправдывая свои грязные  делишки,  низкопоклонски приводит цитатки  в которых подразумевают ничтожность его родной страны

 

 

Еще и политоту приплел, ну молодец)

[=FA=CATFISH]

28 минут назад, =22AMG=Denisik сказал:

Еще и политоту приплел, ну молодец)

Во как!

Цитата  Бисмарка (хотя еще и не известно доподлинно, говорил ли он это на самом деле) - не политота?

А если ткнешь носом в пост красного с его же собственными косяками - это политота.

Твои двойные стандарты - вообще ниже низкого

 

[=AD=Denisik_FL]

1 minute ago, =FA=CATFISH said:

Во как!

Цитата  Бисмарка (хотя еще и не известно доподлинно, говорил ли он это на самом деле) - не политота?

А если ткнешь носом в пост красного с его же собственными косяками - это политота.

Твои двойные стандарты - вообще ниже низкого

 

Где ж я, и чем тебя я так обидел, что ты увидел мои двойные стандарты?))

 

[FTC_HK]

Can we stop with the Cyrillic here? English only on this forum, translating and pasting is not difficult guys.

[=AD=Denisik_FL]

2 minutes ago, ACG_HardeKoning said:

Can we stop with the Cyrillic here? English only on this forum, translating and pasting is not difficult guys.

Household showdown, do not pay attention)

[Norz]

Great campaign. TY for your work.

[FTC_HK]

2 minutes ago, =22AMG=Denisik said:

Household showdown, do not pay attention)

Do so in PM then.

[Chivas_Regal]

The war on the server may end, but the war on the forum will never ?

[CisTerDRock]

Thank you to organizers and participants. 

 

This was fun no matter who wins. 

 

Looking forward to the next one.

[=AD=Kap-the-head]

Thank you for the great campaign! Developers, you guys make an amazing product, despite bitches and complains from both sides! Thank you, once again. The good news is that I can go back to the normal life ?

[=FSG=FRITZ]

I did not understand. The Blue has 3 airfields (two inactive),
a lot of equipment and pilots - why is the map over?
The Reds were in a much worse situation - they resisted for another two weeks

[[110]xJammer]

Well a few points after this campaign:

 

AAA defences

 

As it currently stands the AAA is basically harmless to a coordinated pair of aircraft. They are too easy to destroy, too predictable with firing pattern and do not switch targets quickly enough to be dangerous to those killing them.

 

A simple strategy of using a single "dragger" and 1 or more "AA killers" enables the group to clear up convoy, airfield or depot AAA in a matter of 60 seconds. (Its kind of silly how some groups have not figured this out yet and took heavy losses trying to raid airfields).

 

Furthermore the new DM changes mean that even if AAA manages to hit the target it rarely is fatal and most of the time the aircraft can stay on target and even make it home. This is especially true for il2/pe2 as they can soak up an incredible amount of damage (to some extent making it possible to solo AAAs in IL2 even with minimal skill)

 

Suggestion: fast flak at depots should be invulnerable / respawn in 1-5 minutes. This would guarantee that vast majority of depot attacks will be done via high altitude bombing. In turn increase the impact of destroying depots completely, as otherwise it would make them worthless targets (also please do consider the fact that destroying enemy depots results in more of your own tank spawns, and thus causes more tank losses on your side)

 

fast flak on airfields should respawn in 5-10 minutes. This would encourage large coordinated group raids that are motivated to depart quickly.  Considering that the current META of TAW is to nuke fields as soon as it is possible, almost anything to discourage it would be great. Honestly I'd go as far as to suggest spawning a wing of AI fighters if there are enough enemies over the field (just to give AAA a little bit more of a chance). In addition, add several mg positions around the field with very fast respawn time. This is a good emulation of random infantry running out to shoot at aircraft, while also being sufficiently annoying to motivate aircraft to depart quickly.

 

tank convoys need a rethink. They are too easily carpet-bombed (especially red 100kg bomb or ju88's 6x250kg bomb, A20 with 20x100kg can deal an incredible amount of damage in a single pass). And their AAA can be trivially destroyed in minimal time, while dealing not too much damage to the attacking aircraft. I think, similar to AF proposal, a few mg positions that respawn around the convoy could make sustained attack not immediately trivial, while spreading the column a bit would make it less convenient to both carpetbomb or directly strafe it. and IMO the randomness of tank columns can be very frustrating at times for both teams.

 

 

Lives

 

Too easy to grind them back, opposing team having 1 more player means your lives basically do not matter, encouraging outright suicidal behaviour especially in +1 aircraft.

 

Suggestion: Make lives similar to CM streak required to gain an aircraft. I.e. 5 CMs without death/capture would net +1 life for the pilot. Permit dead pilots to fly during team imbalance, however permit the life counter to go into the negative. After the ban time runs out, check the life counter, and if negative, increment life counter by +1 and apply another 20h ban. Such pilots can still grind out their lives by running safe/supply missions, rather than turning into a temporary kamikaze. 

 

 

Bomber missions

 

Currently you gain +1CM per 20 minutes of flight as long as you damaged at least something. Provides a straighforward way to grind +5/6CMs in a single flight. Just find random flak position, drop a bomb in their general direction, auto level your aircraft back into friendly territory and go do something else for the remaining 1h45m. Come back to 2 new aircraft and an extra life.

 

Suggestion: Maybe its worth to actually reward the bomber for the quality of the sortie, rather than the length? Consider the depot buildings destroyed, airfield bombed, tanks etc and provide equivalent CMs then. Or maybe at the very least require the bomber to hit a depot for the 20min/+1CM to be "enabled".

 

 

Kuban map

 

Tuapse airfield has only 1 strategic connection to the nearby city, and Maikop is the only airfield that is decently close to the "frontline". Please fix

 

 

Aircraft hangar

 

IMO especially for reds, the aircraft hangar is becoming a bit of a mess. We already have the combos of yak7/9t and yak1b/9. Why not organise the aircraft into 3 classes? "Basic" "Advanced" and "New arrival" ones? This could also mean that one can make the higher tier aircraft more expensive, i.e. 4/5CMs. That way the really recent additions will actually be quite rare, and require more effort to acquire. (Its quite common for some pilots to only fly the "best" aircraft, and, if lost, simply grind it back out with a quickie 3 transport missions).

 

Tank-draw

 

Basically entirely removes the consideration of pilot/aircraft losses from the game. On a few maps the pilot/ac loss disbalance was almost 2x between the teams with almost no repercussions to either side. An option is to come back to the original design which would likely extend the time the campaign would run... but is that really a bad thing?

 

Spawn-spying

 

Happens on both teams. When someone joins, hop in briefly to the opposite side and check where they are flying out from. Unsure how to fix this reliably, however.

 

 

Dead airfields

 

Are too easy to keep dead. they only get 1-2 AAA respawn per map, and destroying 2-3 buildings brings them back into the 100% damaged state. With more people being aware of the META one can almost guarantee that the only time airfield will get repaired is when it is no longer attackable. 

 

Suggestion: I would not make the supply runs directly repair the airfield. However do respawn full complement of the AAA and more than just 2-3 buildings (I'd say respawn at least half of them). Meantime indeed keep the "damage" percentage as it is now. This would make follow-up cleanup runs much more challenging.

Edited November 25, 2020 by [110]xJammer

[SCG_Syn]

Congratulations Reds! You fought really well and that team work as always was amazing to go up against!

[AKA_Relent]

35 minutes ago, =FSG=FRITZ said:

I did not understand. The Blue has 3 airfields (two inactive),
a lot of equipment and pilots - why is the map over?
The Reds were in a much worse situation - they resisted for another two weeks

 

Once the only remaining active airfield (Viselky) became inactive, that became a winning/losing condition for the map (i.e. no active airfields).  Looking at the missions' Axis events, it showed that airfield was destroyed:

• Airfield in Viselky was destroyed

 

Here's from the manual:

 

There are three ways to win a map:

• enemy loses all its cities

• enemy has no open airfields

• enemy exceeds aircraft or pilots limit

 

[=AD=AlmanAndorrano]

I will be very modest, but the Reds won when they united in a sober sky!
A sober sky will always support rivals and drink a glass to the blue side! 

[SCG_Syn]

9 minutes ago, =U2=Alman said:

I will be very modest, but the Reds won when they united in a sober sky!
A sober sky will always support rivals and drink a glass to the blue side! 

Well said Komrade

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

I think what @xJammer wrote makes a lot of sense. Two things I would like to add:

1) As was said multiple times: random tank attacks that make no sense are very frustrating. Maybe allow people with certain ranks to vote for direction of the attacks?
2) There should be a mitigation for "stack the empty server" meta. Please note that it affects both sides. A lot of pilots who "play the map" are very discouraged when what they gain while playing against well-organized and numerous opposition is wiped out next morning by folks flying in empty sky.  It is a serious issue because it really drives many away people from playing on the server. They just see no point in flying risky ground attack missions if they know it will be 100% in vain. There were numerous suggestions to address this, from my point of view the most sensible ones were about scaling down damage during lopsided times and slowing down tanks so that the front line changes are not as dramatic.  

[=FSG=FRITZ]

1 hour ago, mincer said:

I think what @xJammer wrote makes a lot of sense. Two things I would like to add:

1) As was said multiple times: random tank attacks that make no sense are very frustrating. Maybe allow people with certain ranks to vote for direction of the attacks?
2) There should be a mitigation for "stack the empty server" meta. Please note that it affects both sides. A lot of pilots who "play the map" are very discouraged when what they gain while playing against well-organized and numerous opposition is wiped out next morning by folks flying in empty sky.  It is a serious issue because it really drives many away people from playing on the server. They just see no point in flying risky ground attack missions if they know it will be 100% in vain. There were numerous suggestions to address this, from my point of view the most sensible ones were about scaling down damage during lopsided times and slowing down tanks so that the front line changes are not as dramatic.  

 

 In my opinion, it is worth introducing coefficients for pilots. Not the effectiveness of the weapon or the artificial "retention" of the front line, but the calculation of the personal results of the pilot depending on the current ratio. For example: at a ratio of 1: 1 for a downed aircraft, the pilot receives 10 points, if he flies one against three - then 30, and if he is in a team of 3 against each other - then three points. This encourages experienced pilots to fight in the minority, and most - to coordinated action, because they will be "hunted".

Edited November 25, 2020 by =FSG=FRITZ

[=FPS=Cutlass_RL]

14 hours ago, =FA=CATFISH said:

 

 

*****************

 

 

**********************.....

Edited November 25, 2020 by =FPS=Cutlass

[AKA_Relent]

1 hour ago, =FSG=FRITZ said:

 

 In my opinion, it is worth introducing coefficients for pilots. Not the effectiveness of the weapon or the artificial "retention" of the front line, but the calculation of the personal results of the pilot depending on the current ratio. For example: at a ratio of 1: 1 for a downed aircraft, the pilot receives 10 points, if he flies one against three - then 30, and if he is in a team of 3 against each other - then three points. This encourages experienced pilots to fight in the minority, and most - to coordinated action, because they will be "hunted".

 

This is a good idea, as it rewards experience points (in this case which is all about the ranking) based on the risk the outnumbered pilot took, vs the pilot on the larger team.  This can be extended towards earning CM's too...  so a 1:1 ratio earns a pilot 1.0 CMs (the "baseline"), but a pilot on a smaller team that averaged 2:1 odds gets 2.0 CMs, and a pilot on a larger team in that scenario only earns 0.5 CMs... so more risk = more reward.  Obviously in some cases the ratio is X:0 when one side has no one, so there needs to be a minimum for the larger team (e.g. 0.2 or some such CMs guaranteed).  This has been brought up before, but it has merit, especially if it's combined with the ratio affecting the experience points similarly.

[Chivas_Regal]

5 hours ago, =FSG=FRITZ said:

I did not understand. The Blue has 3 airfields (two inactive),
a lot of equipment and pilots - why is the map over?
The Reds were in a much worse situation - they resisted for another two weeks

The red team held the village of Neftyanaya for a long time and this allowed saving the Tuapse airfield from destruction. I find it difficult to say exactly how many tank columns were destroyed there. The blue team defended the settlement of Ust-Labinsk for a very short time, which covered the Vyselki airfield from destruction. As soon as it was captured, the Vyselki were immediately destroyed.

[=FSG=FRITZ]

21 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

The red team held the village of Neftyanaya for a long time and this allowed saving the Tuapse airfield from destruction. I find it difficult to say exactly how many tank columns were destroyed there. The blue team defended the settlement of Ust-Labinsk for a very short time, which covered the Vyselki airfield from destruction. As soon as it was captured, the Vyselki were immediately destroyed.

OK thank you

[Gustav_Hagel]

7 hours ago, [110]xJammer said:

Suggestion: fast flak at depots should be invulnerable / respawn in 1-5 minutes. This would guarantee that vast majority of depot attacks will be done via high altitude bombing. In turn increase the impact of destroying depots completely, as otherwise it would make them worthless targets (also please do consider the fact that destroying enemy depots results in more of your own tank spawns, and thus causes more tank losses on your side)

 

fast flak on airfields should respawn in 5-10 minutes. This would encourage large coordinated group raids that are motivated to depart quickly.  Considering that the current META of TAW is to nuke fields as soon as it is possible, almost anything to discourage it would be great. Honestly I'd go as far as to suggest spawning a wing of AI fighters if there are enough enemies over the field (just to give AAA a little bit more of a chance). In addition, add several mg positions around the field with very fast respawn time. This is a good emulation of random infantry running out to shoot at aircraft, while also being sufficiently annoying to motivate aircraft to depart quickly.

 

I don't agree with indestructible AAA, I think a good solution for these issues regarding AFs and depots would be increasing the number of both heavy and especially fast firing/low caliber AAA, maybe doubling in the frontmost airfields would be interesting, but that would need to be checked if it doesn't impact the server. However I do agree there should be maybe some sort of AAA respawn in the airfields during the mission, at least when they are still up and not disabled.

 

I would really like to see more random flak positions in larger cities, especially in the Western Campaign as cities were pretty populated and had plenty of defenses.

 

Also as I proposed before, exp reduction as punishment for chutekillers. Sorties logs register the time when a player bails out. Any pilot kill after more than 2 sec is definitely an intentional chute killing. I think it would suit for both historical reasons and those people who complain about it.

[=FSG=FRITZ]

1 hour ago, SCG_Gustav_Hagel said:

I don't agree with indestructible AAA, I think a good solution for these issues regarding AFs and depots would be increasing the number of both heavy and especially fast firing/low caliber AAA, maybe doubling in the frontmost airfields would be interesting, but that would need to be checked if it doesn't impact the server. However I do agree there should be maybe some sort of AAA respawn in the airfields during the mission, at least when they are still up and not disabled.

 

I would really like to see more random flak positions in larger cities, especially in the Western Campaign as cities were pretty populated and had plenty of defenses.

 

Also as I proposed before, exp reduction as punishment for chutekillers. Sorties logs register the time when a player bails out. Any pilot kill after more than 2 sec is definitely an intentional chute killing. I think it would suit for both historical reasons and those people who complain about it.

Both ideas are bad. The first is because a large amount of AAA will load the server. At the same time, the revived AAA will make you fly high and careful over particularly important targets. The second is because it is not true. In real life, everyone fired at paratroopers: both the Germans and the Allies. And it happened on both the Eastern and Western fronts. I myself do not shoot parachutes, but this is my personal belief, which is not an indisputable truth.

[Norz]

Dear Kathon, 

better is not to change a mechanic how it works.

 

The last campaign ended in 7 weeks and it is almost optimal (1 map=1 week). I find it more important to make it much easier for players to play instead to suffer.

 

My suggestions:

 

1. Small changes in planes.

 

a) Map No4, Map No5 Map No6 Lagg3 should be available with 23mm for all cases.

b) Map No5 Yak1 is +1 plane.

c) Map No6 Yak7b is +1 plane.

d) Map No7 La5F should be added. Only 1 Yak7b instead of 2Yak7b

e) Map No7 La5F should be added. Only 1 Yak7b instead of 2Yak7b

f) Map 3, 4 Mc202 20mm is allowed.

 

 

 

2. Lock some features on 109F4 for the map No3. (Head armor always on). 

 

3. The airfield should be repaired much quicker if the team played with a bad ratio. (x hours/y hours * basic repair).

 

4. The tank column should be re-suppled  much quicker if the team played with the bad ratio. (x hours/y hours * basic resupple).

 

P.S. See you all next campaign. I hope that next time we will see more red players.

P.S.S.2 Can someone parse the whole html pages to provide me the raw data? I want to make some small analyses to see if the ratio was so bad as I think.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Norz

[LLv44_Oke]

It was interesting campaign. Thanks for that. I can only speak one issue...I dont have enough knowledge for anything else. 

Chute killing (or shooting):

I dont care which way individual decides to do ...shoot or not to shoot. It might be common decicion of a hole squadron or not .

 

Its best if every individual think by himself which way is best

 

IF SERVER RULES KIND OF REWARD SOMEHOW THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOUR ITS  WRONG. 

One thing is sure...No matter changes...rules...or anything is that Im flying Ju-88 and lawyer is on my tail shooting me...in next one.

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

15 hours ago, Johnno said:

kind of sad how the blues seem to just have given up...

 

Every red player here told us it is unbalanced and they have a really hard time being outnumbered...while winning. So i guess people tried to "even" it out for you guys

[Norz]

18 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

Every red player here told us it is unbalanced and they have a really hard time being outnumbered...while winning. So i guess people tried to "even" it out for you guys

 

Can you explain your point..?

 

Norz (axis team) Posted April 13:

Sad to say...But seems that the last update ruined the balance for the fighters. Maybe i am wrong, will test on the WOL server.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Norz