Why not have a proper, historical, fun Tutorial instead of Tanks? (With Po-2 and SG-38) ((and maybe teach people Navigation?))

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

OK. Solution: Do a Ju-52 with dual controls, so he became useful as primary trainer, navigation trainer... and a dozen and half can fly as "transport" (of "what if"). 

 

"Two birds with one stone".

And Po-2

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I think there could be scope for single add on aircraft that bring some custom missions and a specific role such as JU52.

 

Why not...

[BraveSirRobin]

Why not...

 

Probably because the developers don't feel that it will generate enough revenue to justify the cost.

[Jade_Monkey]

I dont think the number of people with zero flight sim experience is or will ever be high enough to warrant a trainer.

Its sad but thats the reality. If thry really want to learn they will, like we all did.

 

Its realitvely easy to learn the basics in Normal settings, and then start learning in expert once you know how to take off and land.

[Brano]

Get whatever plane you want to train for in QMB,set invulnerable and unlimited ammo ON and you are ready to go.No need for trainers,for common player it would be waste of time to learn how to land biplane kukuruznik when he is supposed to fly high-speed heavy wingload monoplane.There are also plenty of Utube vids about shooting,landing,energy fighting etc.Welcome to 2015

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

If you try to see the bigger picture you might come to the conclusion hwo trainers could be usefull. I've used to train squad mates in BoS so I kind of have a picture of whats troublesome.

 

Ever tried to teach sby a sideslip or flat spin recovery in BoS? Or emergency cases like catstrophic engine failure? Or a certain manouvres they never even heared off nor know how to execute it?

 

It all comes down to what kind of players you want cater....if you aim for enthusiatic simmer (like probably most of us here) that love spending lots of hours into training and ressearch to master sth with years of expirience it's a nice gadged, but consequently useless. If you aim for a helpful and interactive comunity including new rookies that feel like they need to be taken by hand before starting to walk on their own trainers pose great potential.

 

Just ask yourself: Do you expect the average rooky to play on full expert settings in a competetive online envirounment from day 1? Or may he just think "Oh man, this is getting too complicated, I may just fly on easy settings so I don't have to worry about all that technical stuff"?

 

Take that rooky and compare him to a very ethusiatic and well knowledgeable simmer. Guess who sticks with the game on a long run. That should make you get the picture....

 

Edit: Another point to consider is that with the development of tandem controlls (like for trainers) the game gets enhenced with viable code that for example allowed bigger bombers with copilots to be implemented.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Sokol1]

... new rookies that feel like they need to be taken by hand before starting to walk on their own trainers pose great potential.

 

The new rookies want is the last model of Messerschmitt, with 30mm cannons anf 1k bombs to blow up things like he watch in THC Dogfights, not fly a 90KMH in biplanes... 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

The new rookies want is the last model of Messerschmitt, with 30mm cannons anf 1k bombs to blow up things like he watch in THC Dogfights, not fly a 90KMH in biplanes... 

Yes until they discover they can't handle it due to engine failures and say "This game is crap, going back to WT!".

 

There's still a bunch of more serious inter medium guys though that could take great profit from this feauture...

[Brano]

If both teacher and student will not have the same flying HW setup and key mapping,two seater is a moot point.

Better start with good instruction video as a first teaser and after its just practice,practice,practice.There are some nice training maps setup for MP.Formation flying,navigation,bombing,target shooting etc.

There was no two seater teacher/student tutorial in old sturm or going even backwards in AoE and such,yet we are all here,sound and healthy.It is only about the will of the new virtual pilot to learn the things in hard way.If there is no will,there is no way. 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

If both teacher and student will not have the same flying HW setup and key mapping,two seater is a moot point.

Better start with good instruction video as a first teaser and after its just practice,practice,practice.There are some nice training maps setup for MP.Formation flying,navigation,bombing,target shooting etc.

There was no two seater teacher/student tutorial in old sturm or going even backwards in AoE and such,yet we are all here,sound and healthy.It is only about the will of the new virtual pilot to learn the things in hard way.If there is no will,there is no way. 

Räusper.... CloD and Tiger Moth?

[BraveSirRobin]

Räusper.... CloD and Tiger Moth?

 

Probably not a good example of successful development.

[Brano]

Show me the crowd of thankful newbies who became aces thanks to Tiger Moth tutorial.

[johncage]

the rise of flight training sessions were well produced, charming gameplay and narrative feature combined into one. the cherry on the cake being the instructor was synthetic voiced rickenbacker.

 

sims shouldn't be afraid to do that kind of stuff. of course, back then it seems greater emphasis was placed on the single player component with a much more in depth campaign, so it was natural to have these longer sessions off-line. nowadays it seems games are more mp focus, they just want to push you directly into an on-line battle, hence the robotic nature of the presentation and menus.

Edited November 20, 2015 by johncage

[Sokol1]

Räusper.... CloD and Tiger Moth?

 

I see video of one guy piloting their Blein and other managing the bombsight, but never see one of DH-82 dual controls usage - if this is possible at all.

Fly as passenger is, I did this online one time, but as I was a "clandestine", I did not touch the controls.

[Mikey]

Well it would definitely help but tanks are obviously more important in a flight sim than training aircraft  

[indiaciki]

Maybe a slow and underpowered tank?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Maybe a slow and underpowered tank?

In Fact Yes.  The Panzer I

[indiaciki]

After mastering the basics (taxiing and ground handling ) with the Panzer I -  you can practice take-offs and Landings flying a T-90 or the Leopard 2 :D

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKlQM4AjAiU

 

[Sokol1]

Good of Panzer I is you can teach four guys at same time. 

[Fliegel]

I guess everybody knows a-40 but since this is about gliders (and tanks) it should be here...

 

 

See? They both could coexist together in (one) piece

[Jade_Monkey]

If you want a glider just ask for it but dont pretend it's for the newbies.

 

This is a selfish thread disguised as a thread to help others.

[indiaciki]

Don't get him wrong. German pilots were trained on gliders and worked their way up. It's not selfish. It worked perfectly. Do a couple of deadstick landings in a row and you'll get the benefit. I'm no way an advocate for gliders and would never fly one but it makes sense. It is proven. Energy ,managemant is essential. That's what you learn flying gliders. It' 100% about energy !

Edited November 21, 2015 by indiaciki

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

If you want a glider just ask for it but dont pretend it's for the newbies.

 

This is a selfish thread disguised as a thread to help others.

Ok, I honestly too want a gliding sim based on the Il-2/RoF engine. And I think a tutorial would be a great starter.

Don't get him wrong. German pilots were trained on gliders and worked their way up. It's not selfish. It worked perfectly. Do a couple of deadstick landings in a row and you'll get the benefit. I'm no way an advocate for gliders and would never fly one but it makes sense. It is proven. Energy ,managemant is essential. That's what you learn flying gliders. It' 100% about energy !

[indiaciki]

I'm arguing for a GA sim based on ROF, BOS; BOM physics for a year

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I'm arguing for a GA sim based on ROF, BOS; BOM physics for a year

Just imagine simulated thermals to gain 1-5m/s just by flying in the right spot in RoF and Il-2. I'd absolutely love realisitc weather simulation for RoF and Il-2.

[indiaciki]

I'd love that. But i just can't figure thermals. My meteorology is bad. I grew up with engine driven planes. There's some glider pilots on the forum. JCOMM is one of them. 

Edited November 21, 2015 by indiaciki

[=81FG=HellKitten]

I agree with this idea.
BoS needs some proper tutorial.

Plus, by looking at the optimization of the game after the few patches, im very worried about tanks

I wish devs would more focus on makinga fine flight sim rather than tanks

Edited November 21, 2015 by =81FG=HellKitten

[Trooper117]

Wait... you don't know about the ninja's yet?

[AndyJWest]

Latest I heard, 1C/777 have been bought by another franchise - the next project will be Super Mario Battle of Kursk. 

[FlatSpinMan]

Moved to "Suggestions" forum at OP's request.

[Chuck_Owl]

I'll never be against seeing new planes in a game, but in the end a developer needs to make ends meet. The investment required for gliders and trainers requires people to actually buy it in order to generate profits. It's not rocket science to figure out that fighters will sell much more than gliders and trainers.

 

DCS trainers like the L-39, Hawk and C-101 have not sold as well as other modules. Most people just don't see the point in flying a "trainer" because it often lacks weapons and it is easily outperformed by any other aircraft in the game. The example with the Tiger Moth in CloD is perfect: everyone just wants to jump in a Spitfire right away, crash a couple of times and then eventually get the plane flying properly. The majority of Red pilots on CloD never bothered with the Tiger Moth and I can't blame them.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Chuck_Owl

[indiaciki]

Maybe it would be enough port any ROF plane like the Bristol or the Breguet into BOS / BOM for those learning the basics if it is technically possible. I'm not talking about historical accuracy though I'm sure there were some Breguet flying well into the 30s. Jumping into the cockpit of any BOS airplane before being able to land any plane is like riding a racing motorcycle before knowing to ride a bicycle. 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Maybe it would be enough port any ROF plane like the Bristol or the Breguet into BOS / BOM for those learning the basics if it is technically possible. I'm not talking about historical accuracy though I'm sure there were some Breguet flying well into the 30s. Jumping into the cockpit of any BOS airplane before being able to land any plane is like riding a racing motorcycle before knowing to ride a bicycle. 

Since there will definetly be some kind of follow up Il-2: BoX the funds for that game could also be used to create said tutorial, since there will be enough stupid people like me preordering games at ridicoulously high prices.

And this tutorial would only have to be created once for all 3 games.

 

Another somewhat tricky point is that the Po-2 would actually have a place as a liason, ambulance, reconaissance, harassment etc. aircraft for the few stupid people like me who like to do such silly things as flying inferior aircraft, you know, the kind of people who don't take themselves too seriously.

The Germans use the Gotha 145 for the same purpose as both Multi Purpose Biplane and Night Harassment

 

 

 

We already have these Saboteur Missions on WoL and these two Biplanes are pretty much cut out for short, unprepared field work, picking up spies, carrying wounded officers and all the other non primary combat action.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Well, I'm just tutoring someone in the Stuka from the rear seat

[indiaciki]

Well, I'm just tutoring someone in the Stuka from the rear seat

 

Great ! Does it work? The Stuka is a great trainer aircraft. Not kidding. Can you see forward at the gunner's position? Please do a screenshot

Edited November 30, 2015 by indiaciki

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

You cant as long as the canopy is closed and the gunner can not lean outside. The IL-2 offers slightly better vision but is not great either.

 

Best option in terms of visibility are the He-111 (pretty useless for comvat training) and the Pe-2 (upper turret gunner can see right half of the cockpit).

 

Still, a dedicated trainer with the ability to be operated by 2 persons would be a vast improvement over those improvisoric training methods.

[Dakpilot]

Bf 110 could be good as trainer, even has duplicate limited instrument panel and good view out the front

 

give it a try

 

 

Cheers Dakpilot