Would you rather have a new Battle of X that follows BOM and BOS(plane capabilities) or would you like something new?

[Reagan505]

You need to fix that if you want to continue to post here.

 

 

 

I totally disagree...

 

I think that if the team could come up with a way to administer online play that is as close to what the original IL2 had.. as far as it's ease of use and simplicity goes... and kept the dedicated server setup now in place as it is.. for those who want to run a dedicated server.. it would go a long long way towards blowing up online play in this incarnation of IL2. That was one of it's strongest points.. that anyone with the sim could just give you their ip and host a mission .. DF or Coop...

 

Due to real life issues I have not flown online in a long long time so I do not know how it is now.. and frankly even my offline flying has been extremely limited.. in any sim..  but until this sim's online implementation can be done as easy and as quickly as it is in the original IL2 the numbers will not be the same.. just my two cents.

 

Agreed. The servers and hosting is kind of a bummer at the moment. I' sure it will be improved down the road. Would rather have that fixed before adding more theatres or aircraft.

[Caudron431]

It was, together with the P-38 (which suffered terrible losses in 43 over Europe), the only US fighter that was able to escort B-17s to their targets deep into Germany and back. While that for sure improved the survivability of B-17s and made them hit their targets harder I think this statement is a little overdone.

 

 

Then let's say that the p-47 was one aircraft able to escort B-17s, which thanks to its very good high altitude performance forced the Luftwaffe to fight where it was no longer having the advantage, and where it started to lose its initiative and  the possiblity to deal with the bombing problem in a safer way. That led to attrition and weakening of both the Luftwaffe and equally importantly, its prestige and reputation?

 

Furthermore, and what some (most) people tend to blend out, is that US fighter aircraft in Europe had mainly one task to perform: Escort their bombers. German aircraft on the other hand were tied to numberous of regulations and demands from the RLM. That prevented development of very specilized aircrafts (like Bv.155, Me-109H, Fw-154) effectively which in return means that compromises in desing had to be made.

That is where the US strategy was clever! It shew how limited the Luftwaffe was and that it was possible to weaken it by using aircraft having only one task to perform (but most important), while in the same time putting most of the psychological stress on the Luftwaffe pilots. That was perhaps an important shift in the morale of the Luftwaffe pilots.

 

One of the other place where something like this happened (shift in tactics, mentality and morale of air forces) was perhaps the Kuban campaign, it is why i really would like the next IL2 to be BTW!

Edited January 29, 2016 by Yak9Micha

[Lusekofte]

All these theaters everyone wish for, I have one question. Can they make mountains on the maps ? I never seen one. I have seen some small elevations , but never a mountain , neither in ROF or here. 

If they can't, well then you are stuck with low countries and Mid soviet 

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

That's why Kuban would be a very nice area, lots of mountains (and oceans). Good stepping off point for Mediterranean as well. 

[Bearcat]

The Crimea would be interesting too from a map point of view...

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

The Crimea would be interesting too from a map point of view...

The Crimea and Kuban are basically a single late 1943 installment, very interesting for those who dislike shipping so much, they want to destroy all of it, with targets such as Submarines, Freighters and so on. 

And at this point there are actually some quite interesting late western allied types as well, Spit Mk.Vb's, P-39s, A-20 Havocs and all the other fun stuff, as well as Yak-9Ts. 

 

I would absolutely love the addition of a Crimea Map, and I think even the fans of Western Allied Aircraft will be very well served. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Well, the Crimean offensive itself only started in April 1944, though there were troops in Kerch since 1943. The area of Kuban/Caucasus/Crimea operations is enormous, if they go there I wonder what will be in the map

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I'm totally fine calling the P-51 a singular focus aircraft but the P-47 was extremely well rounded and excelled in the ground attack role as well.

[bzc3lk]

What is a 109R?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_Aerospace_Me_109 

[Feathered_IV]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_Aerospace_Me_109

It looks coin operated.

[Dakpilot]

All these theaters everyone wish for, I have one question. Can they make mountains on the maps ? I never seen one. I have seen some small elevations , but never a mountain , neither in ROF or here. 

If they can't, well then you are stuck with low countries and Mid soviet 

 

There were some pretty decent mountains (hills?) on the Murmansk map thread as far as I recall, don't suppose the RoF island map really has mountains but does have some big hills with steep elevation changes

 

 

In fact with a reskin the RoF Inspiration Island map could double as pacific or Baltic, a little small tho 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

That Murmansk map would have been such a blast, all BoS and BoM aircraft fit the bill and there was fighting throughout the whole war there. Ground action, air action, ships and some more ships... Shame the creator had to withdraw, at least he's doing fine though

[wtornado]

I would like the Kuban campaign.Don't really care for the Moscow one at 112$ Cdn it my eyes it is not worth that.

 

 

Don't want the Pacific one it will take too long to develop from mostly scratch maps and planes they will probably ask 150$

Cdn.

 

I still like IL-2 Cliffs of Dover for my Western Front Battles with new patches and plenty of aircraft coming in the summer.

 

And it is free.Bought Clod 2 weeks after it came out and shelfed it for a year and a half unusable.Never forgave 1c for that..

 

Games are too expensive with the exchange and the economy is not that good here.

 

I will wait until BOM goes on sale in STEAM at 50% off and end up paying the asked price in my currency.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I'm totally fine calling the P-51 a singular focus aircraft but the P-47 was extremely well rounded and excelled in the ground attack role as well.

And it just looks a ton better than the 51, at least in my eyes. Especially the Razorback models look like a white shark pouncing on you. The Soviets never really used it, but in Western Service it simply was more destructive than the Mustang.

 

Should we get a mid 1944 Scenario, I hope (D-Day) for the rather crappy P-51Bs (gun jams, wayward fabric elevators, inescapable death-flat spins, killer flip-over stalls and no visibility), Excellent P-47Ds (hopefully both as razorback and bubbletop) with paddle blade props and HVARs and all metal elevators. 

And just think of the Merlin 66 Powered LF Mk.IX and Mk.XVI Spits (Bubble Canopies as well as traditional)

Or hope for Typhoons with RP3 rockets and 4 cannons

And of course Mosquitoes. 

All against 109G-14s, G-6s, 190A-8s, Me-410s and all the converted Bombers.

 

I would like that plane-set just like anyone else would and I I know the P-51 guys will complain that the P-51s are crappy, because they were until very late in 1944. They will be the first ones to leave the game, I promise you. 

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

For D-Day/ Western Europe P-51D/K was pretty much ubiquitos by mid 1944. P-51B and C continued to serve in Italy and especially in China.

Edited January 30, 2016 by RoflSeal

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

I would like that plane-set just like anyone else would and I I know the P-51 guys will complain that the P-51s are crappy, because they were until very late in 1944. They will be the first ones to leave the game, I promise you. 

If they don't change the engine limitation system, every P51 will be a piece of crap. Just go to DCS, set your Mustang strictly to 46hg and 2700rpm. And then try to do anything against a Dora...good luck. Against G14 or G10 it wouldn't look any different

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

For D-Day/ Western Europe P-51D/K was pretty much ubiquitos by mid 1944. P-51B and C continued to serve in Italy and especially in China.

As far as I know the first Ds rolled off the production lines in mid-late March, early April 1944, add to that shipping over the Atlantic and 'Pilot Familiarization and you have the first examples ENTERING Service in late May, early June. 

That for me is insigificant. 

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

As far as I know the first Ds rolled off the production lines in mid-late March, early April 1944, add to that shipping over the Atlantic and 'Pilot Familiarization and you have the first examples ENTERING Service in late May, early June. 

That for me is insigificant. 

Reasearching it this is what I found

 

By June 1944, P-51B Fighter Groups outfitted with P-51D

4th, 339th, 352nd, 361st

 

July 1944 

those + 20th, 55th, 355th, 357th, 359th, 364th

 

3 other FG in 8th AF which switched to the P-51D were P-47 Fighter groups.

 

Seems to have been overall a very quick switch.

Edited January 30, 2016 by RoflSeal

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Reasearching it this is what I found

 

By June 1944, P-51B Fighter Groups outfitted with P-51D

4th, 339th, 352nd, 361st

 

July 1944 

those + 20th, 55th, 355th, 357th, 359th, 364th

 

3 other FG in 8th AF which switched to the P-51D were P-47 Fighter groups.

 

Seems to have been overall a very quick switch.

What does "Outfitted" mean in the Americn/British Context? Where fully converted to one type, or mixed in slowly? I know when many British Fighter groups were "outfitted" this was mostly a process of a couple of month of transition from one type to another (Like Mk.V to Mk.IX which often took 3-6 months, while often the first months the first "outfitted" machines were used for familiarization, and didn't serve for some time until enough had arrived)

[Lusekofte]

P 51 debate? huh . I never liked to fly it. Mostly because it is always modeled in simulators in a way that its short comings never is crucial . P 51 had a wonderful K/D ratio, because of excellent trained pilots and strategy , and a opponent over stretched and had insufficient number of experienced pilots. 

This make everyone think it is a uberplane. 

I would not buy the pack containing a P 51, if there is not goodies like HS 129 , P-39 A 20 Havoc or DB3 / IL4 with it

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I think I have a different opinion than most. I think ANY theater can be interesting, however EVERY might get a bit repetitive after some time. Thing I really liked with old Il-2s was that with every next game they added something new. Forgotten Battles (and Ace Expansion Pack) added western theaters, aircraft and new types of missions. It also brought some minor countries into game thus attracting interest from there. Then came Pacific Fighters moving the things to the far east with aircraft carriers, volcanic islands and completely different feeling. Oh boy, what fun that was to fly with a few guys and coordinate the attacks in B5Ns sinking Lexington ...

 

I really enjoy BoS and BoM, they have a lot of high quality elements and gave me a new perspective on the eastern front. Flying LaGG, Il-2, 109 E or P-40 is great fun. 

 

However I think its time to move and change both the scenery and aircraft setups. And for that I would like to see Pacific. It's just something completely different. 

[Reagan505]

And it just looks a ton better than the 51, at least in my eyes. Especially the Razorback models look like a white shark pouncing on you. The Soviets never really used it, but in Western Service it simply was more destructive than the Mustang.

 

Should we get a mid 1944 Scenario, I hope (D-Day) for the rather crappy P-51Bs (gun jams, wayward fabric elevators, inescapable death-flat spins, killer flip-over stalls and no visibility), Excellent P-47Ds (hopefully both as razorback and bubbletop) with paddle blade props and HVARs and all metal elevators. 

And just think of the Merlin 66 Powered LF Mk.IX and Mk.XVI Spits (Bubble Canopies as well as traditional)

Or hope for Typhoons with RP3 rockets and 4 cannons

And of course Mosquitoes. 

All against 109G-14s, G-6s, 190A-8s, Me-410s and all the converted Bombers.

 

I would like that plane-set just like anyone else would and I I know the P-51 guys will complain that the P-51s are crappy, because they were until very late in 1944. They will be the first ones to leave the game, I promise you. 

 

Would be nice to see some British fighters like the Mossies', Typhoons, Hurricanes, Defiant, Spits, etc enter the fight before the Mustang. Hopefully the P-47's, (Early and late versions) P-38's, A-26, B-25's and B-26 hit the theatre as well. I like the Mustangs, but it's not a must for me. Early model Mustangs / A-36 Apache were under powered and had issues, but the Apache turned into a very good low level attack aircraft and never really got the credit it deserved. So many other aircraft should come before it. ME-410's and more 190's would be cool as well. Lots of options available, just going to take time.  

Edited January 30, 2016 by 4./JG53_Reagan505

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Would be nice to see some British fighters like the Mossies', Typhoons, Hurricanes, Defiant, Spits, etc enter the fight before the Mustang. Hopefully the P-47's, (Early and late versions) P-38's, A-26, B-25's and B-26 hit the theatre as well. I like the Mustangs, but it's not a must for me. Early model Mustangs / A-36 Apache were under powered and had issues, but the Apache turned into a very good low level attack aircraft and never really got the credit it deserved. So many other aircraft should come before it. ME-410's and more 190's would be cool as well. Lots of options available, just going to take time.  

I would love the A-36 in a meditarrean setting. 

[GP*]

"I'd like to discuss this sim moving to another theater...you know, at any point in the future."

 

"SHUT UP AMERICAN, NO P-51 FOR YOU."

 

"...but that's not even what I was taking about."

 

"P-51 WASNT EVEN THAT ÜBER YOU KNOW...ALL YOU'RE GONNA DO IS WHINE IF YOU GET ONE."

 

"But..."

 

"ENOUGH OF YOUR PATRIOTIC RHETORIC!"

[LukeFF]

"I'd like to discuss this sim moving to another theater...you know, at any point in the future."

 

"SHUT UP AMERICAN, NO P-51 FOR YOU."

 

"...but that's not even what I was taking about."

 

"P-51 WASNT EVEN THAT ÜBER YOU KNOW...ALL YOU'RE GONNA DO IS WHINE IF YOU GET ONE."

 

"But..."

 

"ENOUGH OF YOUR PATRIOTIC RHETORIC!"

 

That sums it up pretty well.

[Caudron431]

"I'd like to discuss this sim moving to another theater...you know, at any point in the future."

 

"SHUT UP AMERICAN, NO P-51 FOR YOU."

 

"...but that's not even what I was taking about."

 

"P-51 WASNT EVEN THAT ÜBER YOU KNOW...ALL YOU'RE GONNA DO IS WHINE IF YOU GET ONE."

 

"But..."

 

"ENOUGH OF YOUR PATRIOTIC RHETORIC!"

Hope this helps calm the fear!

[Juri_JS]

There's an easy solution to make both western and eastern front fans happy. Simply add a theatre where both the VVS and the USAAF and/or RAF operated, for example Murmansk, Romania, Hungary or Berlin.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

"I'd like to discuss this sim moving to another theater...you know, at any point in the future."

 

"SHUT UP AMERICAN, NO P-51 FOR YOU."

 

"...but that's not even what I was taking about."

 

"P-51 WASNT EVEN THAT ÜBER YOU KNOW...ALL YOU'RE GONNA DO IS WHINE IF YOU GET ONE."

 

"But..."

 

"ENOUGH OF YOUR PATRIOTIC RHETORIC!"

 

Arguing with Americans be like...........

 

 

 [Edited]

 

Speaking of Americans... The NFL has surpassed the former national sport... but .. baseball is still very popular... Are you familiar with it?

Edited January 31, 2016 by Bearcat

[wtornado]

You all know deep down in your hearts that you want Spitfires

the best Allied fighter ever built but....that is just common logic.

 

The Mustang using the Spitfire engine helps it but,ahh it ain't that good.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

You all know deep down in your hearts that you want Spitfires

the best Allied fighter ever built but....that is just common logic.

 

The Mustang using the Spitfire engine helps it but,ahh it ain't that good.

Indeed. Mustang: 4.5 tons

             Spitfire V: 3.0 tons

 

BUT: Merlin 45-55 with british fuel: ca 1500hp

                                     russian fuel: >1200hp

Because Merlin: Small engine, heavy block, hi revs, hi compression, hi manifold pressure, intercoolers, high spec race engine. 

DB605 and DB601: No difference, designed to run on everything, large displacement, low revs, lo compression, low manifold pressure, basically a tractor engine. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

There's lots of talk about "Russian Fuel" on American and British engines but by all means weren't the Soviet aviation fuel supplies for these aircraft brought in with the aircraft via Iran, Murmansk and Archangelsk?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

There's lots of talk about "Russian Fuel" on American and British engines but by all means weren't the Soviet aviation fuel supplies for these aircraft brought in with the aircraft via Iran, Murmansk and Archangelsk?

The domestic engines were never in need of high fuel grades, because Daimler Benz, BMW, Klimov and Shvetsov were smart and designed useful engines of war. 

[unreasonable]

Well, the Crimean offensive itself only started in April 1944, though there were troops in Kerch since 1943. The area of Kuban/Caucasus/Crimea operations is enormous, if they go there I wonder what will be in the map

 

You could make the Crimea include 1941 - very intense air fighting required to help the German army to get into the peninsula: then you would need to include a strip of southern Ukraine as well to serve as a starting point for LW bases. (Il2 classic Crimea map did not get this quite right).

 

Huge maps is the main problem I see for all of the general ideas people come up with for other theatres - the actual terrain covered by the full size BoS/BoM maps is tiny: how many air operations really took place within such a limited space?  Arguably the BoM map only covers about 1/4 of the relevant area of the actual BoM. 

 

If map size is a real resource constraint - as I imagine it must be - it might even be be better for other theatres to have a larger scale map (as in IL2 classic), or even "fantasy" maps that give the right feel for their target theatre.  

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

It all depends though, many of the maps proposed consist of simply water which saves some resources (both texture and research). Kuban would probably need a full-scape map of its own, and Crimea could be its own map later - big area, different aircraft and so on. I'm sure we will see an early-war expansion someday that will fit in perfectly. They could do an early Crimea and late Kiev expansion for example, because the aircraft are mostly interchangeable as the regions saw combat in different periods.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

It all depends though, many of the maps proposed consist of simply water which saves some resources (both texture and research). Kuban would probably need a full-scape map of its own, and Crimea could be its own map later - big area, different aircraft and so on. I'm sure we will see an early-war expansion someday that will fit in perfectly. They could do an early Crimea and late Kiev expansion for example, because the aircraft are mostly interchangeable as the regions saw combat in different periods.

The wonderful thing is that we have an airplane set already reflecting the early parts of the war in the east, so we can just add maps and the odd Hurricane, I-153, Hs123 and Junkers W-34. 80% of the work on aircraft has been done already. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Arguing with Americans be like [Edited]

Considering you have already been warned by Mods, you really need a temporary ban. If any Americans were to throw around the nationalist tripe or use wartime jingoism's to describe Germans, Russians, or the Japanese we'd be on the bench for a while. It has no place in a civil conversation. Has no place in a theater discussion by any stretch. You made a weak apology but then continued unabated. [Edited] There are other opinions here with as much validity as your own.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Bearcat

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Considering you have already been warned by Mods, you really need a temporary ban. If any Americans were to throw around the nationalist tripe or use wartime jingoism's to describe Germans, Russians, or the Japanese we'd be on the bench for a while. It has no place in a civil conversation. Has no place in a theater discussion by any stretch. You made a weak apology but then continued unabated. A vacation would do you some good. Stop trolling. Stop baiting. There are other opinions here with as much validity as your own.

Considering my relative Forum Reputation I also am apparently hitting a nerve. I'm not against Americans, I'm against extremists, no matter what they prefer. Yes, I'm being offensive at times, but I think I more than compensate for that with actually being constructive. 

When we are having a discussion about a theater like Kuban and the Crimea, and these people make it a whine about the Western Front, because of their overinflated patriotism that leads them to the conclusion that the East is intenly uninteresting because no Americans are involved. 

We can never just a nice chat about the anything east of Berlin anymore because that kind people comes in and ruins it with P-51 talk. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Maybe.................................

 

They just like different AC? It is a possibility.

 

 

Fink and others love the Mig-3 and I think it looks rather phallic. Wulf would beat you with an 801 cylinder head for suggesting he fly anything other than the Fw in BOS. Pre and others love the P-51. So what?

 

All of the top aircraft have very little between them at various timeframes and all have strengths and weaknesses. Fly to the strengths and win. Fly to the weaknesses and perish.

 

To get others into the AC they love INHERENTLY requires a change of VENUE as well. There is no nationalism there.

 

It's a freakin' game. There is no place for nationalism, jingoism or xenophobia here. It is a gaming community. Stop bringing that crap into the conversation.

 

For the record I love the Fw and the P-47. Bring on the bludgeons.

Edited January 31, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

Considering my relative Forum Reputation

Perhaps this is your own vision of your reputation ?

 

 

 

When we are having a discussion about a theater like Kuban and the Crimea, and these people make it a whine about the Western Front, because of their overinflated patriotism that leads them to the conclusion that the East is intenly uninteresting because no Americans are involved. 

East is not uninteresting, but a 3rd time in a row may be. It's not like you will suddenly get completely new setup of aircraft, just like some pointed here many are useful in either earlier or later campaigns. So this would be same dish served a third time, just on a new plate with new snacks around. Still 109s and 190s fighting Yaks and Lavochkins, Il-2s and Ju-87s ground pounding and so on. 

 

I can totally understand why some hope for a change, as they would like to see Spitfires, Wildcats, Zeros, Thunderbolts or whatever else you name. I personally see no reason to buy more yaks and 109s. And small hint, I got nothing against 109s and Yaks.    

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Sure, as to reputations.

 

Finkeren and I have big pretty numbers up there too but I think we'd both admit it owes as much to having big mouths as opposed to just being fabulously witty, smart AND beautiful.

 

 

*Holy cow Fink, you are almost at 2500 now!

Edited January 31, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf