Would you rather have a new Battle of X that follows BOM and BOS(plane capabilities) or would you like something new?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Ah yes, the much-hated Eastern Front... I remember how terrible it was to crash at a friend's house back in 2002 only to find a copy of the very first Il-2 Sturmovik on the table, and how we hated playing those pesky Lavochkins, Yaks, 109s, P-39s and Fw-190s for hours and hours. That was terrible.

 

Must be my memory, I thought I enjoyed that for the past decade and the interest hasn't dwindled a single bit

 

Seriously though, if the Eastern Front bored people like you say people wouldn't play Red Orchestra, the original Il-2 wouldn't have survived. And just for the record, the most popular Il-2 titles in terms of sales and critical reception were the original version and Forgotten Battles, which focused at the Soviet-Finnish engagements after 1941 using loads of old aircraft like Hurricanes, Buffalos, P-40s and so on. The Leningrad-Helsinki map gave most people countless fun hitting ground targets, hunting ships and flying long distances. The La-5FN was one of the most popular aircraft and I even knew a pilot who usually only flew the Fw-190 who would only make an exception for the Lavochkin.

 

Lastly, you clearly have bought both BoS and BoM titles. While I, you and everybody else wants to see how 1C:GS will handle all theatres, but they are experts at the Eastern Front, they have a closer relationship to it and better access to information on it too. Whatever they choose, I'm sure everybody will enjoy it, but if you say the Eastern Front and the Soviet Air Forces are 'boring' you only show that you don't understand that conflict a single bit

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Review your history, the average altitude the USAAF bomber stream flew at was beyond the best perform curve of the BMW801. The BMW801 was originally a copy of an American design, however the Germans never could figure out how to get the high altitude performance out of a radial engine as the US engineers did i.e..( the P-47 unmatched at altitude.) So, they were forced to put in a inline engine, as you are aware has a less desirable power to weight ratio compared to a radial engine. These are the facts, weather you choose to accept them does not matter to me.

Rubbish. High altitude versions of the BMW801 were planed when the production was canceled due to factory bombardments and material shortcomings.

 

If you want to go on with your tunnel visioned view on history pls refrain from stating "facts". Some readers might actually believe it's true.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Frequent_Flyer]

Ah yes, the much-hated Eastern Front... I remember how terrible it was to crash at a friend's house back in 2002 only to find a copy of the very first Il-2 Sturmovik on the table, and how we hated playing those pesky Lavochkins, Yaks, 109s, P-39s and Fw-190s for hours and hours. That was terrible.

 

Must be my memory, I thought I enjoyed that for the past decade and the interest hasn't dwindled a single bit

 

Seriously though, if the Eastern Front bored people like you say people wouldn't play Red Orchestra, the original Il-2 wouldn't have survived. And just for the record, the most popular Il-2 titles in terms of sales and critical reception were the original version and Forgotten Battles, which focused at the Soviet-Finnish engagements after 1941 using loads of old aircraft like Hurricanes, Buffalos, P-40s and so on. The Leningrad-Helsinki map gave most people countless fun hitting ground targets, hunting ships and flying long distances. The La-5FN was one of the most popular aircraft and I even knew a pilot who usually only flew the Fw-190 who would only make an exception for the Lavochkin.

 

Lastly, you clearly have bought both BoS and BoM titles. While I, you and everybody else wants to see how 1C:GS will handle all theatres, but they are experts at the Eastern Front, they have a closer relationship to it and better access to information on it too. Whatever they choose, I'm sure everybody will enjoy it, but if you say the Eastern Front and the Soviet Air Forces are 'boring' you only show that you don't understand that conflict a single bit

 Your flawed logic centers on the supposition that if I, and others only understood the conflict on the Eastern front we would enjoy it. Most do understand it, myself included, thus the reason for the sparsely populated servers. Enjoyment of anything is a subjective proposition. For many reasons,( countless obvious reasons)  far more enjoy the ETO,PTO and the Med than the Eastern front, this is indisputable. If the developers want the revenue stream to increase and be sustained, a business model that includes this audience would make economic sense. The lack of interest, demonstrated by the poor numbers on the servers is indicative of a profound understanding of how monotonous and boring the Eastern conflict was..

[LukeFF]

 

 

The lack of interest, demonstrated by the poor numbers on the servers is indicative of a profound understanding of how monotonous and boring the Eastern conflict was..

 

Going by that metric, the low numbers of people on Rise of Flight servers is indicative of a profound understanding of how monotonous and boring flying over Verdun was.   

 

Come on, you can do better than that. At this point, your posts are amounting to little more than trolling. Or, as put by another poster, rubbish. 

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Going by that metric, the low numbers of people on Rise of Flight servers is indicative of a profound understanding of how monotonous and boring flying over Verdun was.   

 

Come on, you can do better than that. At this point, your posts are amounting to little more than trolling. Or, as put by another poster, rubbish. 

Looking at the Rise of Flight servers, seeing one of them still filled every day, for a 5 year old game, with no significant updates for a long while, that's not bad at all.

Same goes for Cliffs of Dover..."broken" core game,long abandoned by the Devs, still loads of issues, and you have 2 filled servers every evening. What does that tell us about interest of the western front? Doesn't take long to estimate, how that would look for the same scenario with the BoS engine

[Frequent_Flyer]

Going by that metric, the low numbers of people on Rise of Flight servers is indicative of a profound understanding of how monotonous and boring flying over Verdun was.   

 

Come on, you can do better than that. At this point, your posts are amounting to little more than trolling. Or, as put by another poster, rubbish. 

No Need To. Read and reread if necessary JG77_ Manu's post.

[Frequent_Flyer]

Rubbish. High altitude versions of the BMW801 were planed when the production was canceled due to factory bombardments and material shortcomings.

 

If you want to go on with your tunnel visioned view on history pls refrain from stating "facts". Some readers might actually believe it's true.

Directly related to the fact that the BMW801 had poor high altitude performance and the FW-190's had difficulty intercepting the bomber stream.

[GP*]

Some of you are really making yourselves look foolish.

 

No one is claiming America won the war single handedly. All that's being said is that moving to another theater would likely bring in many more players who aren't interested in the current offerings.

 

A few of you are so strong in your anti-American sentiment that, at the slightest hint of moving to a theater that features American aircraft more prominently, you go off on this diatribe about how all Americans are so self-absorbed that all we care about is a P-51. Thanks for highlighting yourselves for what you really are. That's all you've accomplished here.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Some of you are really making yourselves look foolish.

 

No one is claiming America won the war single handedly. All that's being said is that moving to another theater would likely bring in many more players who aren't interested in the current offerings.

 

A few of you are so strong in your anti-American sentiment that, at the slightest hint of moving to a theater that features American aircraft more prominently, you go off on this diatribe about how all Americans are so self-absorbed that all we care about is a P-51. Thanks for highlighting yourselves for what you really are. That's all you've accomplished here.

Hey, only I display strong Anti-American Sentiments. I don't really have any, but I display them nonetheless. 

Problem is;

-If we voted to introduce a late 1941, early 1942 Plane Set around Pearl Harbour, the Americans wouldn't have the machines that would make them feel superior and they would loose interest quickly, killing the game. 

It takes a certain Brtishness, pluckiness maybe, that simply is not present in the American Psyche, and that is what it takes to fly a Wildcat. 

 

-Southern Asia, around the british colonies would be interesting in 1942-43 with the Army Fighters like the Ki-61, 44, 43 against Spit Vs and Hurricanes.

 

-And I guess Homeland defense in late 44-45 with Ki-84s and 100s against B-29s, F6Fs and P-51s.

 

I guess the last two could work, but please not now. 

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Hey, only I display strong Anti-American Sentiments. I don't really have any, but I display them nonetheless. 

Problem is;

-If we voted to introduce a late 1941, early 1942 Plane Set around Pearl Harbour, the Americans wouldn't have the machines that would make them feel superior and they would loose interest quickly, killing the game. 

It takes a certain Brtishness, pluckiness maybe, that simply is not present in the American Psyche, and that is what it takes to fly a Wildcat. 

 

-Southern Asia, around the british colonies would be interesting in 1942-43 with the Army Fighters like the Ki-61, 44, 43 against Spit Vs and Hurricanes.

 

-And I guess Homeland defense in late 44-45 with Ki-84s and 100s against B-29s, F6Fs and P-51s.

 

I guess the last two could work, but please not now. 

 

Or just take the same timeframe like the first Eastern installment: mid-end 1942: Guadalcanal

would look pretty similar in terms of combat performance, to the BoS theatre:

Japanese taking the Soviet spot with aircraft better performing at low alts, better, more manouverable fighters (A6M, Ki43)

US would take the German spot, with aircraft better at high alt (P38), but all restricted to pure BnZ fighting because of their highly inferior manouverability (P38, F4F, P40)..and the P39, which is manouverable, but worse then the Zero in pretty much everything (like an E7 against a Yak)

pretty similar, but the Japanese aircraft would be closer to the US ones performance-wise, then the Soviet ones to the 109 in BoS (Zero for example has a better climb rate then any US plane at that theatre)

Edited January 29, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

A few of you are so strong in your anti-American sentiment that, at the slightest hint of moving to a theater that features American aircraft more prominently, you go off on this diatribe about how all Americans are so self-absorbed that all we care about is a P-51.

 

Then exactly why by and large all Eastern Front enthusiasts are dying for a P-39 and A-20? Eastern Front, 1943, can even have a Spitfire Mk. V. The fact is, people who don't look too deeply into the Eastern Front think it's all steppes and steppes with the odd river here and there, when in reality you had all kinds of landscapes and operations including sea and ocean combat. Of course, the less-informed about the Pacific also say it's two carriers and water which is also far from the truth, but within the current context of a Russian-made game called Il-2 Sturmovik which already has twenty Eastern Front aircraft and large maps that tie into each other, it makes more sense to fully develop this area with at least one or two modules so they can create a full feeling of continuity and being there through all of it, an essential part of gameplay that matters much more than aircraft sales. The summer/autumn Stalingrad maps and Pat Wilson's Campaign Generator have brought a lot of people from the sidelines back into the field, a clear sign that this can (and will) grow to the size of its predecessor as long as they finish things instead of hopping around like frogs.

 

Now let's look at it objectively: if we get Kuban/Kursk, or Leningrad, or Khalkhin-Gol or even Spain (all examples), there are Soviet, American, British, German and Japanese aircraft that can be ported into further theatres like Pacific, Mediterranean (which today would already reuse every single German aircraft plus the C.202 and the P-40) and such. It's all part of a big fat puzzle that works itself out with focus and time

[DD_Arthur]

 

 

  or Khalkhin-Gol or even Spain 

 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............................................

[Frequent_Flyer]

Then exactly why by and large all Eastern Front enthusiasts are dying for a P-39 and A-20? Eastern Front, 1943, can even have a Spitfire Mk. V. The fact is, people who don't look too deeply into the Eastern Front think it's all steppes and steppes with the odd river here and there, when in reality you had all kinds of landscapes and operations including sea and ocean combat. Of course, the less-informed about the Pacific also say it's two carriers and water which is also far from the truth, but within the current context of a Russian-made game called Il-2 Sturmovik which already has twenty Eastern Front aircraft and large maps that tie into each other, it makes more sense to fully develop this area with at least one or two modules so they can create a full feeling of continuity and being there through all of it, an essential part of gameplay that matters much more than aircraft sales. The summer/autumn Stalingrad maps and Pat Wilson's Campaign Generator have brought a lot of people from the sidelines back into the field, a clear sign that this can (and will) grow to the size of its predecessor as long as they finish things instead of hopping around like frogs.

 

Now let's look at it objectively: if we get Kuban/Kursk, or Leningrad, or Khalkhin-Gol or even Spain (all examples), there are Soviet, American, British, German and Japanese aircraft that can be ported into further theatres like Pacific, Mediterranean (which today would already reuse every single German aircraft plus the C.202 and the P-40) and such. It's all part of a big fat puzzle that works itself out with focus and time

There is nothing puzzling or out of focus regarding the decision of the  next installment of IL-2. The decision will be driven by both the lack of revenue and resources. In your estimation is either criteria for a successful franchise evident ?- a robust on-line community supporting future installments and/or an outstanding support of the single player format ? Based on your above assessment the developers would be best served to produce just the aircraft and forgo the corresponding Eastern maps. Or just produce the relevant Med. maps and corresponding aircraft skins. There is clearly little demand for another Easter Front snoozer, however it appears demand is not what the " focus " is.

[Reagan505]

Wow, lol.... Havent been on here in a few days and looks like the discussion really took off..

 

Pretty crazy some think the Western / Pacific Theatre would be boring and cause people to leave the servers, game, etc. Honestly, looks as if that has already happening.. Wonder why??

 

Changing theatres will not scare away new or longtime IL-2 fans. Might give the Dev's even more stress to deal with on a daily basis as they create it and put it all together, etc.. But people will not leave.. Actually, the exact opposite would happen. The servers would blow up, actually that depends on if they get fixed in the future as well.

 

Klaus_Mann.. You really think the Western Front and Pacific are silly!? Those installments to the original IL-2 series helped turn it into one of the best sims of all time. After reading all your comments about the Americans, the Pacific, Western aircraft, etc.. It's pretty obvious you, as a German are still butt-hurt Germany got spanked after numerous countries stepped up ended the war. Just because you enjoy flying 100 silly variants of the 109, or whatever.. doesn't mean others enjoy the same. Just because American and British aircraft were superior to German aircraft, doesn't mean other people can't enjoy them. You think because Americans and other people like to fly the best aircraft, (American and British) produced during WWII.. that means they are involved in some, "American Circle Jerk?" Lol.. Dude, sounds like you need some time away from the computer and videos games.. after all, that's exactly what this is.... a video game. Go outside and get some fresh air dude, you're starting to do irreversible damage. The reason I suspect the damage is irreversible is due to you nutty assumption nobody would fly Japanese aircraft and the IL-2 series would die if any other theatre outside of the Eastern Front is created. Nuts..Did you really just say that?

 

You really cant imagine anything more boring then the Battle of the Pacific??? Dude, you need to read up on it or something. The Battle of the Pacific was crazy and what everybody did, (all sides good or bad) was amazing, courageous and set the standard from almost every countries Naval Forces still to this day. Pretty amusing you refer to the Japanese aircraft as, "Rice Paper." Are you serious!? The Japanese aircraft of that time were on the cutting edge. Everybody who knows anything about Military Aviation History knows that most Jap aircraft lacked armor for the pilot(s) / aircrews, the fuel cells, and other critical areas of their aircraft.. Cutting down on weight allowed the Zero to have a maximum range of almost 2,000 nautical miles. This allowed the Zero to be able to conduct Combat Air Patrols in areas way the hell out to sea, etc, etc.. 

 

Every aircraft had their own negative features.. Doesn't mean those aircraft were worthless, as it seems you're trying to say with your statement that people wont fly Jap aircraft. America, (and our allies) did not easily destroyed Jap aircraft and their war machine. The Japs had amazing aircraft, (not just talking about the Zero) and their war machine was a monster. They were very unlucky in numerous aspect of the Pacific campaign.. which doesn't mean Japs aircraft were bad. The Zeros were eventually outclassed by American tactics and technology, but later in the war Jap aircraft became even better.. they just didn't have the resources or the industry to manufacture enough to make a difference..  Zero's had very good performance characteristics and were very dangerous. However, the Zero had severe shortcomings, which cost them a big chunk of their skilled combat pilots, coupled with the fact the Japs never brought their battle hardened fighter / bomber pilots home to train their new guys. That alone killed off pretty much the rest of the experienced aircrews.

 

As for your comment about the Dev's making a P-51 to appease the American's who fly IL-2.. Don't be sassy just because the P-51, (along with many other aircraft) dominated the Luftwaffe and German airspace. If anything, you should be thanking us and our Allies for liberating Germany as well.. You're very welcome. Who knows.. Maybe we'll get yet another Me-109 to fly.. Yay

 

Numerous people asking for more aircraft, (other than the 20 different variants of the 109) isn't a bad thing

 

Also, don't be pissy because numerous other people would like to have the Western Front, Pacific, North Africa, France / Battle of Britain and other areas besides the Eastern Front , (which has already been done).  

 

IL-1946 worked extremely well, made IL-2 one of the best sims ever.. So try not to worry about everybody leaving the IL-2 servers once the Western Front and the Pacific come out. The Dev's will make a ton of money off of those theatres.

 

GO read up on the Pacific Air War, Guadalcanal, etc... You might learn something and understand how amazing that theatre really was.

 

Oh yeah.. and stop being douchey.. Peace Out - (Microphone drops)

Edited January 29, 2016 by 4./JG53_Reagan505

[LukeFF]

No Need To. Read and reread if necessary JG77_ Manu's post.

 

The point of my post was sarcasm. Read and reread if necessary.

 

BTW, Go Kings Go! :--D

Edited January 29, 2016 by LukeFF

[LukeFF]

If we voted to introduce a late 1941, early 1942 Plane Set around Pearl Harbour, the Americans wouldn't have the machines that would make them feel superior and they would loose interest quickly, killing the game.  It takes a certain Brtishness, pluckiness maybe, that simply is not present in the American Psyche, and that is what it takes to fly a Wildcat. 

 

 

Really? You are going to keep trotting out this tired old line? I seem to recall there was a certain American named Jimmy Thach who knew a thing or two about shooting down Zekes...while flying Wildcats. O'Hare? Not too shabby, either. Last I checked, he was from nowhere near Britain.

[SOLIDKREATE]

Well said sir!

 

 

Another theater of war on this game engine would be excellent! I only wish they would release MOD tools. There is no way 777/1C can do it all. I thin they need our help if this series is to survive. I myself would still like to see the Kuban with the Bf-109G-6, Bf-110G-2, Yak-7, P-39D, Hs-129B-1 ect.

 

A North Africa map alone would feed us. We already have the Bf-109F-2, F-4 and G-2, M.C.202 and the P-40E-1. All we'd need is a Spitfire Mk.Vb/Vc just to start. Shoot all they'd need to do is add the 'Trop' upgrade in the modifications list. Then they could add the B-24D-10-CO, P-38G-15-LO, Fw-190A-4, Blenhiem Mk.V, Beaufort Mk.II, Hurricane Mk.II ect.

 

Community MOD's do need to happen. I would love to do some modeling again and actually have a purpose.

[Reagan505]

 

-If we voted to introduce a late 1941, early 1942 Plane Set around Pearl Harbour, the Americans wouldn't have the machines that would make them feel superior and they would loose interest quickly, killing the game. 

It takes a certain Brtishness, pluckiness maybe, that simply is not present in the American Psyche, and that is what it takes to fly a Wildcat. 

 

 You think American's playing IL-2 need our superior American aircraft to enjoy this game??? I'm flying German aircraft as of now, so that proves you're wrong, once again. That is by far one of the stupidest comments I have yet to read on this forum. American's don't have the British Pluckiness to fly the Wild Cat? You know American flew the hell out of Wildcats all through the war and destroyed numerous Jap aircraft, etc. How the hell would you know what it takes to fly a Wildcat? Dude, you have straight lost your mind. You need to stand up slowly and walk away from you computer and the video games.. Lol.. Holy cow.. loss of words.

 

Move along guy

 

Well said sir!

 

 

Another theater of war on this game engine would be excellent! I only wish they would release MOD tools. There is no way 777/1C can do it all. I thin they need our help if this series is to survive. I myself would still like to see the Kuban with the Bf-109G-6, Bf-110G-2, Yak-7, P-39D, Hs-129B-1 ect.

 

A North Africa map alone would feed us. We already have the Bf-109F-2, F-4 and G-2, M.C.202 and the P-40E-1. All we'd need is a Spitfire Mk.Vb/Vc just to start. Shoot all they'd need to do is add the 'Trop' upgrade in the modifications list. Then they could add the B-24D-10-CO, P-38G-15-LO, Fw-190A-4, Blenhiem Mk.V, Beaufort Mk.II, Hurricane Mk.II ect.

 

Community MOD's do need to happen. I would love to do some modeling again and actually have a purpose.

 

You're right on the money Specktre76

Edited January 29, 2016 by 4./JG53_Reagan505

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Wouldn't we need trop versions of the planes we already have for Africa.

 

Just saying it might not be that easy as just a map. Although I would welcome any new maps any time

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Aero, send me a PM. I think your inbox is full.

[Reagan505]

Your flawed logic centers on the supposition that if I, and others only understood the conflict on the Eastern front we would enjoy it. Most do understand it, myself included, thus the reason for the sparsely populated servers. Enjoyment of anything is a subjective proposition. For many reasons,( countless obvious reasons) far more enjoy the ETO,PTO and the Med than the Eastern front, this is indisputable. If the developers want the revenue stream to increase and be sustained, a business model that includes this audience would make economic sense. The lack of interest, demonstrated by the poor numbers on the servers is indicative of a profound understanding of how monotonous and boring the Eastern conflict was..

 

You are a 100% on point!

Edited January 29, 2016 by 4./JG53_Reagan505

[LLv24_Zami]

I think this discussion needs some moderating ATM. It has gone to the patriotic BS and personal attacks.

 

People like different things, nothing wrong with that. I love eastern front. I would take Kuban scenario next. I don`t particularly fancy PTO. But if it is the best for the sim, bring it on. I am not saying it is, I don`t know that. But what ever it is, let`s hope it is best for the sim. I would imagine that the devs have much more data on their hands than any of us and they will make their decision based on that.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Zami

[Feathered_IV]

I think there might be a visit from the Lock Fairy soon.

[Danziger]

P-51s and B-29s yee haw.

[Caudron431]

yeah...they figured it out. they used this extremely small and efficient designed supercharger

 

I'm not sure but i read somewhere that  the P47 was one of the key elements in destroying the Luftwaffe in the West? If that's true my guess is that it was efficient enough to help beating the Luftwaffe there? Maybe this ac is not as laughable as it seems to you?

 

Size for the US was maybe of secondary importance in that they, unlike the Nazi Germany war economy, could afford to built gigantic fighters in much greater number and quality than anything Nazi Germany could build. Just as the Soviets could afford heavy losses and still win against Nazi Germany.

 

War, in my view (but i of course can be wrong ) was not about miniaturization contests, about pilots with high personal number of kills, it was not about some kind of olympic world records.

 

It was about winning it in the end, dominating, and to completely destroy the enemy if needed.

 

Nazi Germany was completly dominated and destroyed, then Germany also politically dominated (still today!!). 

 

My guess is that the rest was of relatively small importance for the Allied in charge of war at the time, and their decision was the good one it appears, since they won in the end?

Edited January 29, 2016 by Yak9Micha

[Brano]

Thunderbuddy was for sure a decision maker.Very versatile aircraft used for almost anything you can think of in terms of aerial combat and ground pounding.Always in the shadow of the mustang,but I like it very much and flew it a lot in old sturm.And not to forget, best fighter to paint a naked chick on its nose

[Willy__]

 

 

And just for the record, the most popular Il-2 titles in terms of sales and critical reception were the original version and Forgotten Battles, which focused at the Soviet-Finnish engagements after 1941 using loads of old aircraft like Hurricanes, Buffalos, P-40s and so on. The Leningrad-Helsinki map gave most people countless fun hitting ground targets, hunting ships and flying long distances.

 

I didnt play much of that soviet-finnish campaign, but oh boy I flown the crap out of that Leningrad-Helsinki campaign! I just loved that map! Lots of ground targets, almost every mission you were bound to find something, either in air or on the ground, the ship hunting and those damn little islands always made me cringe. Also those longe range fairing missions, going forth and back from rear airbases to the front. So much fun! 

[II./JG77_Manu*]

I'm not sure but i read somewhere that  the P47 was one of the key elements in destroying the Luftwaffe in the West? If that's true my guess is that it was efficient enough to help beating the Luftwaffe there? Maybe this ac is not as laughable as it seems to you?

 

Size for the US was maybe of secondary importance in that they, unlike the Nazi Germany war economy, could afford to built gigantic fighters in much greater number and quality than anything Nazi Germany could build. Just as the Soviets could afford heavy losses and still win against Nazi Germany.

 

War, in my view (but i of course can be wrong ) was not about miniaturization contests, about pilots with high personal number of kills, it was not about some kind of olympic world records.

 

It was about winning it in the end, dominating, and to completely destroy the enemy if needed.

 

Nazi Germany was completly dominated and destroyed, then Germany also politically dominated (still today!!). 

 

My guess is that the rest was of relatively small importance for the Allied in charge of war at the time, and their decision was the good one it appears, since they won in the end?

 

I think he didn't say i any means that a P47 is laughable. He just explained, why it was so good at (very) high alt. It had a turbocharger, which was a pretty unique design back then, but it didn't come without costs, which he showed in the picture.

Destroying the Luftwaffe is always such a populistic term.

"Mig3 destroyed Luftwaffe"

"Hurricane destroyed Luftwaffe"

"La5 destroyed Luftwaffe"

"P47 destroyed Luftwaffe"

"P51 destroyed Luftwaffe"...

in reality there was no single plane, not even a single country who destroyed the Luftwaffe. Germany was a small country, with little resources, which got partly solved by their captures (metal), in other cases not so much (oil). They also didn't have the manpower of Soviet Union or US, (80mio, from which a lot of have been little children). So in any means, they had way fewer resources(pilots, aircraft, fuel) to build an airforce. It's crystal clear, that over the cause of 6 years a lot of pilots will die, a lot of planes crash, and a lot of fuel will be burnt, that can't be replaced. It was the sheer numbers of losses on all fronts, that caused the constant decline of the Luftwaffe's power. It was definitely not the capability of a particular aircraft model. 

Edited January 29, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I'm not sure but i read somewhere that  the P47 was one of the key elements in destroying the Luftwaffe in the West?

It was, together with the P-38 (which suffered terrible losses in 43 over Europe), the only US fighter that was able to escort B-17s to their targets deep into Germany and back. While that for sure improved the survivability of B-17s and made them hit their targets harder I think this statement is a little overdone.

 

Furthermore, and what some (most) people tend to blend out, is that US fighter aircraft in Europe had mainly one task to perform: Escort their bombers. German aircraft on the other hand were tied to numberous of regulations and demands from the RLM. That prevented development of very specilized aircrafts (like Bv.155, Me-109H, Fw-154) effectively which in return means that compromises in desing had to be made.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

in reality there was no single plane, not even a single country who destroyed the Luftwaffe. Germany was a small country, with little resources, which got partly solved by their captures (metal), in other cases not so much (oil). They also didn't have the manpower of Soviet Union or US, (80mio, from which a lot of have been little children). So in any means, they had way fewer resources(pilots, aircraft, fuel) to build an airforce. It's crystal clear, that over the cause of 6 years a lot of pilots will die, a lot of planes crash, and a lot of fuel will be burnt, that can't be replaced. It was the sheer numbers of losses on all fronts, that caused the constant decline of the Luftwaffe's power. It was definitely not the capability of a particular aircraft model. 

Thank you! Finally a voice of reason. 

[LuftManu]

OMG this Patriotic chat is getting Phatetic,

Im sorry to say that here we are just posting ideas for new Theaters, I posted mine and saw others, no one was in the middle saying that the planeset I decided was wrong..

 

Move along [Edited], just saying that your X favourite plane won the war is like saying that you won the race because of the left tyre... People doesen`t need to relearn history, they need to make it not personal, this thing is getting viral and if this keeps goin on  we will be singing our Anthem while starting a game...

Edited January 29, 2016 by Bearcat
Name calling

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Hmm....why would they declare war on both of the nations then. They got their innocent children killed.

Just google for "birth programm in the 3rd Reich" and read for yourself. I won't teach you history in this topic.

[SOLIDKREATE]

I think there might be a visit from the Lock Fairy soon.

 

 

 

I think she is on her way too. That post by that German guy was a little too political and racist "Rice Paper".

[Reagan505]

I think she is on her way too. That post by that German guy was a little too political and racist "Rice Paper".

 

Absolutely.. Pretty unbelievable post made by that guy. This is a forum used for people to communicate with Dev's about things the individual membership would like to see. All the negative posts made by that guy are exactly why most game developers don't have forums like this, where we all can make suggestions about improving this game.

[[CPT]milopugdog]

In b4.

I'm honestly laughing at this thread though. It was a very interesting at first when people were discussing the practicalities of a new theater, and what planes would be included, but now it just seems like it's all low blows and 'MURICA.

Good job on derailing a topic I enjoyed though; 11/10

[PatrickAWlson]

Thunderbuddy was for sure a decision maker.Very versatile aircraft used for almost anything you can think of in terms of aerial combat and ground pounding.Always in the shadow of the mustang,but I like it very much and flew it a lot in old sturm.And not to forget, best fighter to paint a naked chick on its nose

 

On the jug that could be life size painting and then some.

 

Now that I have made a wondrously intelligent and relevant comment we can lock this.  Which is a shame because there were some interesting thoughts floating around.  Not sure why people can't have their opinions without trashing others. 

Edited January 29, 2016 by PatrickAWlson

[Reagan505]

On the jug that could be life size painting and then some.

 

Now that I have made a wondrously intelligent and relevant comment we can lock this.  Which is a shame because there were some interesting thoughts floating around.  Not sure why people can't have their opinions without trashing others. 

 

This thread doesn't need to locked.. Only one or two people are getting crazy and talking smack about America / Americans and other peoples ideas about what theatres / aircraft they want in this sim. Just ignore them and if they keep posting anit western, anti Japanese, etc, etc comments, they can be reported. This thread shouldn't die because a few dudes say stupid S***

[LLv24_Zami]

This thread doesn't need to locked.. Only one or two people are getting crazy and talking

smack about America / Americans and other

peoples ideas about what theatres / aircraft they want in this sim. Just ignore them and if

they keep posting anit western, anti

Japanese, etc, etc comments, they can be reported. This thread shouldn't die because a

few dudes say stupid S***

I think the

credit for derailing this thread goes to both parties, not just that one german guy.

But thats enough off topic from me at least.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Zami

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

On the jug that could be life size painting and then some.

 

Now that I have made a wondrously intelligent and relevant comment we can lock this.  Which is a shame because there were some interesting thoughts floating around.  Not sure why people can't have their opinions without trashing others. 

 

Listen Pat, I like you and I appreciate your work but these forums aren't yours to dictate how we interact with one another... Whether that is the subforum relevant to your application (not your subforum) or whether it is the GD board...

[Bearcat]

Hey, only I display strong Anti-American Sentiments. I don't really have any, but I display them nonetheless.

 

You need to fix that if you want to continue to post here.

 

 The lack of interest, demonstrated by the poor numbers on the servers is indicative of a profound understanding of how monotonous and boring the Eastern conflict was..

 

 

I totally disagree...

 

I think that if the team could come up with a way to administer online play that is as close to what the original IL2 had.. as far as it's ease of use and simplicity goes... and kept the dedicated server setup now in place as it is.. for those who want to run a dedicated server.. it would go a long long way towards blowing up online play in this incarnation of IL2. That was one of it's strongest points.. that anyone with the sim could just give you their ip and host a mission .. DF or Coop...

 

Due to real life issues I have not flown online in a long long time so I do not know how it is now.. and frankly even my offline flying has been extremely limited.. in any sim..  but until this sim's online implementation can be done as easy and as quickly as it is in the original IL2 the numbers will not be the same.. just my two cents.