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Could you add a few user controlled features to the icons?

 

Specifically, I am suggesting the icon distance, flags and opacity be user/server side controlled.

 

Currently, it is nearly impossible to set up a bounce in the Normal mode because the icon distances are fixed and too far away to be successful. If these were server side controlled there would be a bridge between arcade/new flyers in Normal and the currently more popular Expert mode. Having server side control of icons in Normal would take some of the mystery and intimidation out of the Expert mode for new flyers.  It would allow servers to have a small amount of control in how icons are utilized for the betterment of situational awareness, pilot skill development and the game overall. It could also encourage better gunnery.

 

I would like to see the admin be able to control three items in regard to icons in Normal mode.

 

Firstly: Allow the server settings to set the distance icons are visible from the current 9 km down to as little as 1 km. Make them scalable in 1 km increments from 1 to 9 km. This would allow the mission maker to set the distance and force better situational awareness within the arena by all players. It would still allow icons to be used but in a slightly, to greatly, reduced manner depending on the server side settings. It would make ground spotting available but would make the player focus on actually spotting (particularly at 1 km) and maintaining eye contact with the target. All icons should be gray at the initial contact distance. Allow the icon to fade in from gray to color at about the half way point in the distance selected.

 

Second: Allow the user to set all icon opacity to full/half/or all gray. This was my original suggestion in EA which was partially adopted. Allow the server side decision to have the icon fade in from the original distance, selected above, but also allow the opacity to be set to full or half. This would make them considerably less distracting/obvious and would allow bounces to be set up more easily and also force all players to improve their scanning in a given arena. Further, allow the server side decision to make ALL icons gray only. If selected on the server side this would force players to begin actually identifying aircraft by type rather than just chasing the first red or blue icon they see. If it is a light gray or a half tone it would improve gunnery skills because the pilot would not be able to just put the icon below the gun sight and hold for a deflection shot as easily. It would also allow the icon to blend in with airframe parts in a dogfight. Gray icons would greatly enhance scanning and situational awareness.

 

Lastly: Give the user the ability to turn off the cockpit flags entirely. This is a feature which breaks immersion even in the Normal servers. Allow them to be turned off on the server side. To be clear, I am not asking for individual pilot control of icons. I am asking only for server side control of these items.

 

This would not affect your ranked servers by making anything easier. On the contrary, it ensures the ranked status by only allowing Normal servers to be slightly more difficult and maintains their integrity within your game.

 

I think this would greatly enhance the Normal servers, increase user enjoyment for those looking for good gameplay without going full real and allow some minor server side control while ensuring the integrity of your original design.

 

Murf

Edited by [LBS]HerrMurf
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The trouble with having all these option is, although they could be used in SP, there aren't enough active servers or players to utilize this range of choices online in multiplayer. There are only two feasible choices available. Icons on or off. Given the small number of players and the fact that they will all gravitate to the one populated server, that's all which can be done.

If someday there are hundreds upon hundreds of players online it might be possible.

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That's certainly an opinion.

 

I'd like to have the option, however, of offering an alternative to what we have as normal. Bridge the gap as it were.

 

Further, I think with how the game has evolved we will see the numbers increase with the release of BOM.

 

Given the resources, I'd back a server with reduced icons. I'm looking to do just that if I can set up a server to my liking.

Edited by [LBS]HerrMurf

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those of us that do like icons would like much less of an icon. Right now it is too big and distracting. We just want a little aid for our old eyes.

  • Upvote 3

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Hope is free, but in one of the last Q&A in Russian forum is said that for changes in Icons format "have not such plans".  ;)

 

BTW - Icons custom options are perfect in il-2'46. Customizable from all the (BS) "distance, plane model, name/squad???" to distance/color only, with option to disappear at close range (what educate players recognize planes shape).

 

A good thing from BoS EA are only a dot over ground targets.

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That's certainly an opinion.

 

I'd like to have the option, however, of offering an alternative to what we have as normal. Bridge the gap as it were.

 

Further, I think with how the game has evolved we will see the numbers increase with the release of BOM.

 

Given the resources, I'd back a server with reduced icons. I'm looking to do just that if I can set up a server to my liking.

Certainly a big benefit of the series growing would be that it might be possible to have more choices in terms of multiplayer server options.

Fewer players online equals less choice. Right now it's literally a single server, Wings of Liberty that has all the attendance.

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Id like to bump this up please, Id like the devs to allow us and servers to customise icons like Il2 46.

Flying online with icons on removes any tactics of surprise and with icons off poor plane i.d. leads to multiple friendly fire.

Even a middle choice of short distance black icons would be a benifit and enhance gameplay

Edited by dd_delta7

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I've also previously suggested Icons on for own side only (emulating presence and radio coms) whilst disabling enemy icons.

 

This means surprise attacks etc can work well *and* eliminate friendly fire events.

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Its probably best not to complicate things too much, but it would be good to at least have several different levels of labels rather than just on/off.

 

In particular I would like a level where labels are on but only when I have a line of sight to the plane.

 

Arrows pointing to planes off screen really breaks the immersion and takes away so much of the tactical elements such as surprising opponents, attacking out of the sun and so on.

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Good ideas and feedback fellas.

 

Generally icons on IS way too arcade for our liking and icons totally off  seems bit too expert  my personal opinion is that reduces pilot numbers . It is bit too Extreme to suggest eye surgery to Squad members.   I hope there can be find a way to golden middle path since More servers and new groups joining to new IL 2 age.

 

334th_Virtue

334th CO

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Posted (edited)
On 11/1/2015 at 3:57 PM, Sokol1 said:

Hope is free, but in one of the last Q&A in Russian forum is said that for changes in Icons format "have not such plans".  ;)

 

Was it said in the context of icon text and detail, or was it said in the context of icons not blocked by the airframe?

 

If the first (format and detail), I don't really understand the reasons behind, as it would only require some cosmetic change.

 

If the latter (blocking by airframe), it's fully understandable from the perspective of the devs. Now the AI plays with icons on and can see through all obstacles, and the devs should completely redo the AI first, so that it cannot see you all the time.

 

In SP it doesn't make much sense to block icons for players as long as icons are not blocked for the AI.

 

MP without AI is a different matter. Blocking icons for all human players on server-side would not require a complete overhaul of the AI.

Edited by sniperton

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1 hour ago, sniperton said:

Now the AI plays with icons on and can see through all obstacles, and the devs should completely redo the AI first, so that it cannot see you all the time.

If I recall correctly, in RoF the AI could not see through clouds or darkness. I assume it’s the same in IL-2?

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I'd also like to see this too, especially for easing players into the higher realism settings. Going from other popular flight games to true no-icons is a daunting leap. 

 

I've been working on it myself, but largely because I started flight sims before icons were even a thing, so they've always been jarring from the word go. 

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23 hours ago, Voyager said:

I'd also like to see this too, especially for easing players into the higher realism settings. Going from other popular flight games to true no-icons is a daunting leap.  

IMO it’s best done by completely switching off the icons rather than a halfway step. Even small dots or whatever will glue your eyes to them and prevent you from learning to see. You’re conditioning yourself to “see” and not just follow screen graphics. 

One thing you can do in SP practice is just switch them on and off completely (press H). Doing that occasionally when you get stumped. I find that helpful in DCS more than IL-2 dealing with beyond visual range missile avoidance etc. 

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44 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

IMO it’s best done by completely switching off the icons rather than a halfway step. Even small dots or whatever will glue your eyes to them and prevent you from learning to see. You’re conditioning yourself to “see” and not just follow screen graphics. 

One thing you can do in SP practice is just switch them on and off completely (press H). Doing that occasionally when you get stumped. I find that helpful in DCS more than IL-2 dealing with beyond visual range missile avoidance etc. 

 

Was thinking more along the lines of having the icons cut in some time after the planes would be visible without them.

 

Also, having friendly names visible at a short distance can help with forming social connections with players you are flying with. 

 

I remember a community fly out we did back in the early Il-2 days, that they specifically ran on an early war full-realism server. While we had a good attendance for the first one, the fact no-one knew who they were flying with, or against, ended up putting a damper on the event. I *think* I was the Yak-1b that I *think* formed up on the wing of Oleg's Mig-3, but I honestly don't know...

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Another bump for icons.  I wish they would represent what the pilot could see, for those of us without huge monitors or trackIR.  I don't mind the slow fade in to colors but being able to see them underneath the aircraft turns them into cheat mode rather than an assist.  I would think it would also play into making AI more realistic.

I've seen other games handle them much better, with options and different schemes (using dots, lines, only showing friendlies)

I'l like an option for them to disappear once you're within close range.  They kill my gunnery for some reason, I often turn them off. 

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1
1 hour ago, CAFulcrum said:

I don't mind the slow fade in to colors but being able to see them underneath the aircraft turns them into cheat mode rather than an assist. 

 

I agree. I wish trees, buildings and parts of your aircraft would hide the icons. Icons would make it easier, but not too easy. I was just thinking about this yesterday actually.

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1 hour ago, CAFulcrum said:

being able to see them underneath the aircraft turns them into cheat mode rather than an assist.

Icons are a cheat regardless of how they’re handled so why should it matter?

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18 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Icons are a cheat regardless of how they’re handled so why should it matter?

 

They could be better. Not being about to see them through the cockpit and through clouds and terrain would make them less of a cheat and more of an assist. Since they would only help you if you could actually see the object with your eyes anyway.

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16 minutes ago, Motherbrain said:

 

They could be better. Not being about to see them through the cockpit and through clouds and terrain would make them less of a cheat and more of an assist. Since they would only help you if you could actually see the object with your eyes anyway.

If you want “realism” then just switch them off. Icons are inherently unrealistic so there’s no way to make them such. Players without 6DOF head tracking probably want them visible through the aircraft since they can’t lean to look around canopy frames etc. and this sim has no invisible cockpit mode. 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

If you want “realism” then just switch them off.

 

Im amazed people can see anything with them off to be honest. Especialy ground targets. By the time I see it its ither already shooting at me or already killed me. Having flown real planes I actually think its easier to see other planes in real life then it is in these games.

Edited by Motherbrain

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1 hour ago, Motherbrain said:

Not being about to see them through the cockpit and through clouds and terrain would make them less of a cheat and more of an assist. Since they would only help you if you could actually see the object with your eyes anyway.

The only solution known to me (it doesn't count as a mod, you can use it on any server allowing for icons):

 

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6 hours ago, Motherbrain said:

 

Im amazed people can see anything with them off to be honest. Especialy ground targets. By the time I see it its ither already shooting at me or already killed me. Having flown real planes I actually think its easier to see other planes in real life then it is in these games.

Try using the zoom view to see distant targets. Your FOV and resolution on a PC screen is much worse than real life, the zoom view is there to help with that. 

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1 minute ago, SharpeXB said:

Try using the zoom view to see distant targets. Your FOV and resolution on a PC screen is much worse than real life, the zoom view is there to help with that. 

 

Thanks. 07

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5 hours ago, sniperton said:

The only solution known to me (it doesn't count as a mod, you can use it on any server allowing for icons):

 

It would seem odd to want to handicap yourself with this online where everyone else can see through their cockpits. Just play with icons off and you’re all equal. Plus you won’t have a big red “shoot me” marker over your plane. 95% of people play icons off for this reason. Frankly if you want to play online it’s best to learn how to play without icons. 

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14 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

It would seem odd to want to handicap yourself with this online where everyone else can see through their cockpits. Just play with icons off and you’re all equal. Plus you won’t have a big red “shoot me” marker over your plane. 95% of people play icons off for this reason. Frankly if you want to play online it’s best to learn how to play without icons. 

 

Yes, we are all aware of your "there is only one way to play the game and anyone who doesn't play my way is terrible," position.

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9 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

Yes, we are all aware of your "there is only one way to play the game and anyone who doesn't play my way is terrible," position.

Well in multiplayer that’s actually true. Hardly anyone uses icons. 

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Weird, I've been playing with the same 40-60 guys for almost five years now.................and that doesn't even count Coconuts Normal Server which has it's own following.

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Posted (edited)

This is good example of how clod ax server had icons set up, at far its just some grey number, then as you come closer it gets your or enemy color, you could see frendly player name asnd so on, and server had planty of options to adjust what and when he wonts to show stuff same way you had it in il-2 1946.

 

 

That server in video was something like berloga here but with all airplanes available for both sides so you had to have some icons to know if that spit is your side or not.

 

But same could be on some servers with icons, you have only frendly icons visable from 0-2km and so on... there was planty options available and were usefull.

 

Example how it looked in files, you had option when color shows, when range numbers are displayed, when type of airplane is shown, when name of player and so on... and you could have differant settings for enemy or frendly side, 24 was max distance in km, 0.1 is off.

"mp_dotrange FOE COLOR 0.1 DOT 20 RANGE 0.1 TYPE 0.1 ID 0.1 NAME 0.1"
"mp_dotrange FRIENDLY COLOR 0.1 DOT 20 RANGE 0.1 TYPE 3.0 ID 0.1 NAME 1.5

 

and also no big sqare (that is more distracting then any help) around airplane like we have here in il-2 GB

Edited by 77.CountZero

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14 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

Weird, I've been playing with the same 40-60 guys for almost five years now.................and that doesn't even count Coconuts Normal Server which has it's own following.

I’ve never seen a server running icons in any flight sim with more than a handful of players on it. Like maybe 6-10 people. That’s not much of a game. The only regularly full servers in this game are Wings of Liberty, TAW and Berloga. All which run without icons. Play however you like but your online options are always greatly restricted in flight sims if you want icons. 

 

The problem with asking for custom icons is that there aren’t enough players online on those servers that you can afford to split them up with different choices. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

Your opening statement is patently false.

Here are the servers running right now: 100 players not using icons vs 6 players using them. This is pretty typical for this sim. 

My statement refers to flight sims not arcade flying games. Although probably games like War Thunder have servers running icons it isn't really a "sim" like this one. So what I said isn’t false for me since I’m referring to what I have seen on IL-2 GB, DCS or CloD. 

 

2019_4_19__1_38_13.jpg

 

Edited by SharpeXB

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He's got a point as of right now, even at peak hours, the amount of people playing in the normal game servers are paltry in comparison. Best not to waste time on such frivolous adventures.

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Posted (edited)

XB

 

You can cherry pick time frames all you want. I play when most of Europe, where the current majority of players are participating currently, are awake.

 

I’ve never played war thunder btw.

 

Also, 1946 AAA server was always packed it was 72 ppl, SoF was always packed it was 64, SoV was well attended it was 64, and Spit v 109 was awesome but I think it was only 48. There are plenty of people who play a style other than yours and enjoy it. Can it be improved with a couple of minor tweaks? Immeasurably so.

 

So, your opening statement is patently false.

 

Not sure why you keep popping in here. Clearly you are not the target audience for this thread and just like to troll.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf

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That the majority of mankind doesn't wear sunglasses in October is not a good argument against wearing sunglasses at any time when it's felt needed.

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11 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

So, your opening statement is patently false.

Well it’s true for me. On all the flight sims I’ve played and in the US time zones. The current crop of flight sims; RoF, IL-2GB, DCS, CloD. No doubt before widescreen HD monitors became commonplace icons were a necessity,  That’s no longer the case and the sims you’re mentioning are quite old.

True I don’t have any stake in this discussion except that I would wonder why the Devs should put work into a feature that only a small % of players use and that won’t be feasible online in any case. There are already mods for people who want these features in SP so why trouble 1CGS with this?

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Posted (edited)

In 1946 servers with icons were popular because there was no other game to offer that, now you have WarThunder for players that like icons, so even if devs improve icons in this game i dont think youll see any more numbers of players playing here on servers with icons. I played on servers with icons in 1946, so i understand that the way icons are now in game is realy bad and has a lot room for improvments, but why would they waist time on that when there is so small customer base for it. Most players who like icons from 1946 play warthunder now.

Edited by 77.CountZero

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