DD today?

[sevenless]

3 hours ago, JohanLoton said:

Two Weeks ™ folks! 

 

Yep. My bet is on 20th or 21st Nov. Tuesday or Wednesday for the next patch. Can´t wait.

[Finkeren]

Oh well, time to start speculating on next week’s DD...

[Diggun]

Turbo Supercharger technical chat. Bet you 20p

[Blooddawn1942]

Kurfürst skins. 

[Finkeren]

Shots of the external model of the Panzer IV and the T-34 model 43 on the Prokhorovka map.

[Danziger]

3d model of the Stang

[[N.O.G.F]_Cathal_Brugha]

On 11/9/2018 at 9:01 AM, Luftschiff said:

Stop posting these tantalizing picture of the gorgeous razorback we won't be getting ?

What he said.

[Bajzon20]

I`am still waiting when they said: 
,,B-25 Mitchel will be flyable'' 

 


I know, i will be hated now, because i like bombers xD.

[ROCKET_KNUT]

4 hours ago, Diggun said:

Turbo Supercharger technical chat. Bet you 20p

I bet, .... hmmmm,... 85DD 

[Taxman]

19 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Yep. My bet is on 20th or 21st Nov. Tuesday or Wednesday for the next patch. Can´t wait.

I'm thinking the same, a few days ago before the latest DD I predicted the 20th,  the 21st will work also. 

[LuftManu]

Well now that we've got some kind of date we can speculate about what comes in the next DD.

I would like to see some info on the supercharger but some Dora content would also do

[sevenless]

58 minutes ago, LF_Gallahad said:

Well now that we've got some kind of date we can speculate about what comes in the next DD.
 

 

My guess is on Dora cockpit and skins and a first 3D Model of Mustang and perhaps P-38.

[Danziger]

Yes. I vote for the Stang.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

On 11/10/2018 at 5:21 PM, GTursonA523 said:

I`am still waiting when they said: 
,,B-25 Mitchel will be flyable'' 

 


I know, i will be hated now, because i like bombers xD.

This please, can'T be emphasized enough.

 

[sevenless]

While we are all in anticipation of the P-47 and the K4 I found this little book, which gives a good overview about both machines and how they were used 1942-45 in the ETO.

 

https://ospreypublishing.com/p-47-thunderbolt-vs-bf-109g-k-pb

 

 

[CountZero]

its so calm here now when they said when to expect update ? no wolowlwollolo 

[Finkeren]

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

While we are all in anticipation of the P-47 and the K4 I found this little book, which gives a good overview about both machines and how they were used 1942-45 in the ETO.

 

https://ospreypublishing.com/p-47-thunderbolt-vs-bf-109g-k-pb

 

 

 

Wow, that was a bit surprising! The P-51 beats the P-47 for both air and ground kills for just over half as many sorties and with 25% fewer losses? Granted, the P-47 had to bear the brunt of the fighting at a time when the enemy was stronger, but still, those are not really great numbers.

[Garven]

11 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

 

Wow, that was a bit surprising! The P-51 beats the P-47 for both air and ground kills for just over half as many sorties and with 25% fewer losses? Granted, the P-47 had to bear the brunt of the fighting at a time when the enemy was stronger, but still, those are not really great numbers.

I'm guessing the ground victories are for aircraft destroyed on the ground and not for all other types of ground targets.  The 8th air-force P-51 groups strafed a lot of airfields and probably didn't hit as many other types of ground targets as the 9th air force P-47 groups. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Garven_Dreis

[unreasonable]

Presumably "Victories - Ground"  relates to aircraft destroyed on the ground. If so it might make sense that P-51s got a lot of these as they did the furthest penetration escort missions and were encouraged to attack airfields on the way back. Once the GAF had pulled its fighters back it got progressively harder for the shorter range P-47s to reach airfields with ground targets until late in the war when everything was in range.

 

edit:  removed nonsensical comment.  But add: reading James Holland's book "Big Week" recently he mentions that the GAF learned to time their attacks on the USAAF bomber raids in 1943-44 so that they would attack just after the P-47s had turned back.  The P-51s went all the way to the targets so the Germans had to fight through the escorts. Hence P-51s would have had more fights, victories and losses in escort sorties at least.

 

This is just my speculation.

Edited November 14, 2018 by unreasonable

[sevenless]

6 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

 

Wow, that was a bit surprising! The P-51 beats the P-47 for both air and ground kills for just over half as many sorties and with 25% fewer losses? Granted, the P-47 had to bear the brunt of the fighting at a time when the enemy was stronger, but still, those are not really great numbers.

 

I think, the better Kill/Loss ratio of the P-51 is due to the fact, that it started to operate in the ETO when the quality of new Luftwaffe pilots was already in decline. I was personally surprised to see that the loss per sortie ratio of the P47 was that significantly better than the P51 and P38. Suggests to me that the jug really is a very sturdy plane which made it back home when other planes failed to do so.

[unreasonable]

I think that table is best read when interpreted as per thousand sorties:

 

 

[LuftManu]

P-47 also were in a more dangerous enviorement in the last part of the war, ground attacks are always tough, even debris can take you down.

[76IAP-Black]

Dont forget the different counting for destroyed ground targets in the usaaf 

[unreasonable]

20 minutes ago, LF_Gallahad said:

P-47 also were in a more dangerous enviorement in the last part of the war, ground attacks are always tough, even debris can take you down.

 

True, hence I was a little surprised to see that per sortie they had much lower loss rates than the P-51s.  I interpret that as two thing: firstly as I said earlier the German fighters could often avoid escorting P-47s but not P-51s, so they would have had many escort sorties without contact.  Secondly, if you are over Berlin or a similar distant target and anything goes wrong: battle damage, mechanical malfunction or just getting lost, the you have a much lower chance of getting back to base than if you are close to home. 

[Legioneod]

1 hour ago, Finkeren said:

 

Wow, that was a bit surprising! The P-51 beats the P-47 for both air and ground kills for just over half as many sorties and with 25% fewer losses? Granted, the P-47 had to bear the brunt of the fighting at a time when the enemy was stronger, but still, those are not really great numbers.

If the P-47s would have stayed escorting bombers their victories may  have been higher. I think the main reason their victories were lower is to to them being relegated to ground duties.

One thing is for certain though, the P-47s loss per sortie beats nearly every US fighter hands down.

Another thing to look at is the cause of the losses (ground fire vs aircraft.)

I know the majority of P-47 losses were due to ground fire and not enemy aircraft, and I'm sure the same can be said for the P-51 but I'm curious to see how they stack up against each other.

 

The 56th FG lost around 128 to combat causes, only 40 or so to enemy fighters, but they shot down over 650 aircraft in combat.

 

Imo this is just a testament to the P-47s survivability in combat, even though they may not have faced fighters they still faced the most dangerous thing to aircraft which is ground fire.

 

EDIT: Also, the ground targets destroyed is just for aircraft.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Legioneod

[EAF19_Marsh]

Ignoring the victories (as a thorny subject), the P-47 survival rate is very good given they were in the teeth of the RVG duting its strong period. Wonder if the longer range of the P-51s contributed to higher losses, or possibly higher accident rates as the fighter force expanded in 1944?

[[N.O.G.F]_Cathal_Brugha]

According to one P-47 pilots account, ground targets other than aircraft destroyed on the ground were not officially counted, so ground attack squadrons were overlooked on the awards, time off, ect, for kills/success, since they had hardly any "counted" i.e. aircraft kills. It was a sore point for many of the P-47 ground attack squadrons. This was not addressed by HQ until the war was nearly over, so that chart probably does not show the great amount of ground targets the P-47s destroyed, only the 'official' aircraft kills.

[sevenless]

15 hours ago, Finkeren said:

 

Wow, that was a bit surprising! The P-51 beats the P-47 for both air and ground kills for just over half as many sorties and with 25% fewer losses? Granted, the P-47 had to bear the brunt of the fighting at a time when the enemy was stronger, but still, those are not really great numbers.

 

I just found another table in this Osprey book:

 

https://ospreypublishing.com/p-51-mustang-vs-fw-190-pb?___store=osprey_rst&___from_store=osprey_usa

 

 

[Diggun]

So, do you chaps think there might be a DD today?? 

 

Hype level = maximum safe containment. 

[sevenless]

Just now, Diggun said:

So, do you chaps think there might be a DD today?? 

 

Hype level = maximum safe containment. 

 

Nope, too early. I expect them to give us a DD tomorrow. Maybe with some good news about the U2 collector plane?

[Legioneod]

Aren't we supposed to see the Jug next week? Will we even get a DD this week with the update around the corner?

[Finkeren]

10 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Aren't we supposed to see the Jug next week? Will we even get a DD this week with the update around the corner?

 

Han said “two weeks - be sure” in Friday’s DD, so I wouldn’t expect it next week but rather the middle of the week after that.

We are looking at 27th-29th of November.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Finkeren

[Uufflakke]

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

 

Maybe with some good news about the U2 collector plane?

 

Let's hope for some good news about the Po-2.

I have some money in the pocket. Otherwise I have to spend it on alcohol coming weekend.

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Uufflakke

[sevenless]

 

10 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

 

Han said “two weeks - be sure” in Friday’s DD, so I wouldn’t expect it next week but rather the middle of the week after that.

We are looking at 27th-29th of November.

 

Thanksgiving in 2018 is on Thursday, the 22nd of November(22/11/2018).

 

Because of that, my bet is on either 21st or 22nd for patch release. WOLOLO!

[Finkeren]

7 minutes ago, sevenless said:

Thanksgiving in 2018 is on Thursday, the 22nd of November(22/11/2018).

 

Because of that, my bet is on either 21st or 22nd for patch release. WOLOLO!

 

I’d love for you to be right.

 

As for the upcoming DD: I think we are likely to get the skins for the K4, but honestly I’d much prefer something looking a bit more ahead. Maybe some good shots of the Prokhorovka map? It sounded like it was pretty far along.

[sevenless]

11 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

 

. Maybe some good shots of the Prokhorovka map? It sounded like it was pretty far along.

 

Oh yes. I am also interested to learn if we possibly get a flight career coupled with this 1943 module, so that we not only can fight in tanks over the map but also might be able to go tank hunting in IL-2s, FW 190s and Ju 87 Gs.

[kissklas]

37 minutes ago, Uufflakke said:

 

...Otherwise I have to spend it on alcohol coming weekend.

Oh come on, you know that will happen anyways??

[Major_Hero]

17 hours ago, unreasonable said:

Presumably "Victories - Ground"  relates to aircraft destroyed on the ground. If so it might make sense that P-51s got a lot of these as they did the furthest penetration escort missions and were encouraged to attack airfields on the way back. Once the GAF had pulled its fighters back it got progressively harder for the shorter range P-47s to reach airfields with ground targets until late in the war when everything was in range.

 

edit:  removed nonsensical comment.  But add: reading James Holland's book "Big Week" recently he mentions that the GAF learned to time their attacks on the USAAF bomber raids in 1943-44 so that they would attack just after the P-47s had turned back.  The P-51s went all the way to the targets so the Germans had to fight through the escorts. Hence P-51s would have had more fights, victories and losses in escort sorties at least.

 

This is just my speculation.

 

I have really enjoyed James Holland's work immensely. I just wanted to mention, whilst I have not yet read "Big Week" his "Fortress Malta" has been one of my favourite reads from this writer. An excellent composition.

 

Just sharing

[BlackSix]

36 minutes ago, sevenless said:

Oh yes. I am also interested to learn if we possibly get a flight career coupled with this 1943 module, so that we not only can fight in tanks over the map but also might be able to go tank hunting in IL-2s, FW 190s and Ju 87 Gs.

At present we've no such plans, there will be 2 tank scripted campaigns only.

[sevenless]

6 minutes ago, BlackSix said:

At present we've no such plans, there will be 2 tank scripted campaigns only.

 

Thanks Blacksix for setting this straight. I think it is a missed opportunity.