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Flight and damage models physics

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Brief description: Junkers 52 can not fly straight above 150km/h unless we apply Left trim Rudder.

 

Detailed description, conditions:

Above 180 km/h, The Junkers 52 has a strong tendency to Yaw right, we need a lot of LEFT rudder trim to keep her flying straight.

Above 240km/h, we have to put 100% LEFT rudder trim to compensate and even with that, she is turning RIGHT and can not fly straight unless we apply LEFT rudder constantly.

Happens always with all Junkers 52 pilots.

 

Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):

post-467-0-56377600-1491603101_thumb.jpg

Edited by 1./TG1_Nil

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Brief description: La5, Lagg3 and Yak1 damage models

Detailed description, conditions:

 

I have trained against La5, Lagg3 and Yak1 more than hunred times in a offline. When I hit to wing of the La5 the wing started to fire almost every time. But if I hit Lagg3's or Yak's wing they never started to fire.

Only fuel leaks out from tank.

Because the wing and fuel tanks are similar to all these fighters Lagg's and Yak's damage models have bug because hit to fuel tanks by 20 mm  shell ignites tanks almost every time.

Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):

 

This video shows (time 2.50) how the wing tank start to fire.

 

Along it I checked many books from Luftfaffe and FAF and according these descriptions wing tanks started to fire very easily

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general description: tail wheel collapses when unlocking

 

detailed description: This maybe similar to those report in #5 for stuka and #12 for he111.

In game supplied Stalingrad campaigns both the il2 mod 1942 and yak 1 tailwheels collapsed when selecting lock/unlock tailwheel prior to takeoff. This is without any movement at all. Its always locked when spawning so no need to actually use it, but did not realise this at time. However have repeated this a couple of times with same result.

Also after landing il2 I unlocked tailwheel to assist turning, the tailwheel collapsed soon after. Taxi speed slow.

Curiously unlocking the tailwheel in the take off and landing mission with the yak 1 works fine. Multiple lock and unlocks to taxi to runway, no damage occurs.

 

specs:

AMD phenom 965 black edition quad core

8Gb RAM

HSI 6970 graphics

win 7 pro 64bit

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Further edit: please ignore this post - it's a load of rubbish! There's nothing wrong with the trim tab.

Cheers.

 

Brief description:[/b] Visual error with Spitfire Rudder trim tab

Detailed description, conditions:

Depiction of rudder trim tab movement reversed.

Applying full right rudder trim causes the trim tab to move full LEFT yet the plane still turns to the RIGHT

Applying full left rudder trim causes the trim tab to move full RIGHT yet the plane still turns to the LEFT

 

The rudder trim tab control gives the desired effect; this is purely a visual error.

 

Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs): n/a

Your PC config data (OS, drivers, specific software): n/a

Edited by 216th_Cat

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Brief description:

Bf109 loose its entire tail

 

Detailed description, conditions:

Bf109 regularly looses its entire tail only after a few (one?) hit(s). Recently I practised a longer time on Berloga server and recognised that I got regularly shot off my complete tail (rudder and elevator), although I was only hit a very short time. I cannot say how often the tail was hit exaclty, as I have no track files recorded, but I can provide short video sequences recorded with Nvidia ShadowPlay. I try to record some track files in the near future and provide it to you as soon as I have a bit spare time.

 

Additional information:

- Server: Berloga dogfight server

- Plane: BF109 F-4 (don't know yet if other 109s are also affected)

- Causing weapon: Unsure

 

Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):

https://youtu.be/r3s7E-v7ZkM

 

Your PC config data (OS, drivers, specific software):

Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit (1703)

I7 4790k 4.00 Ghz

16 GB Ram

Nvidia GTX 970

Nvidia drivers 382.05

Edited by StG2_Manfred

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Hello. I'd like to post a report.

 

Brief description: He-111 modeled too heavy or underpowered
 

Detailed description, conditions: At takeoff, the plane barely reaches 160 to 170km/h at the end of the runway with full throttle, even when I push the elevator to keep the tail wheel off the ground. When I have fellow planes, the other planes under auto control fails to take off or crash shortly after takeoff.

After takeoff, it is very hard to keep a flight speed above 250km/h while climbing. It is impossible to reach the altitude for target approach suggested in the briefing. I am guessing that some parameters in the model is currently out of balance. Please check.
 

Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):
 

Your PC config data (OS, drivers, specific software): Windows 10, Core i7/6700, nVidia GTX1070. Battle of Stalingrad.

 

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https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/31138-tank-problem/

 

Hello ;-)

 

Tank gunner problem........

 

 
During the shooting of grenades from my tank  in a enemy tank, there is no inpact to see.
 
Sometimes I have a reaction or a blast, but often not.

It seems like I'm shooting through and there is no response to an explosion of the enemy tank.

 

 

 

Even when I shoot the ground, there is no blast to see .

 

 

This phenomenon has come after the last update .

 

 

Is there a solution to this, or have more players suffered from this?

Edited by 1.JaVA_KEBEN

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Brief description: Bf-109G unrealistic left steer on ground

Detailed description, conditions:

Taxiing the Bf-109 with tail wheel locked, wind 2 kts either from behind or facing it, less than 1500 RPMs. Short grass, flat and almost bumpless terrain.

The airplane steers to the left and it's almost impossible to keep it on a straight line, even by braking right all the time. Not much better with unlocked tail wheel.

Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs): none

Your PC config data (OS, drivers, specific software):

Win7 Pro x64

IL2 version 2.012

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Brief description: JU52 Passengers Parachute bug.

Detailed description: Upon the ju52 reaching its drop zone and the 12 passengers bailing out, their chutes detach from their body and fall the ground very fast leaving just their bodies descending as if their chutes were still attached. Parachutes lay rested on the ground.

Additional assets: I have a flight recorded but I think I have described the situation well enough but can upload if needed!

PC data: Win 10, iL2 2.012  and specs in signature

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Brief description: ​Self sealing tanks of 109 & 190


Detailed description:​ If Me 109 or Fw 190 get hit to fuel tank the tank starts to leaks fuel immidiattely and leaking continues as long as tanks has fuel. Both planes have self sealing tank which resists rifle calibre or 12.7 mm bullets without leaking. Sometimes even 20  mm shels can hit to self sealing tanks without fire or leaking. 


Additional assets:​ Every player has seen this bug that 109 or 190 fuel tanks continue leaking.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 4

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Brief description: Hs-129 normal engine startup causes engine shutdown

 

Detailed description: During engine startup of the Hs-129, if the mixture is not manually advanced to 100% before starting engines, the automatic startup procedure will set the mixture to 0% after completing startup, causing the engines to turn off. You either have to set it to 100% before starting your engines, or hold the mixture advance button during startup so that it comes off 0% right away and the engines don't quit because of this. 

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Brief description: Bf-110 engine stalls during auto-start

 

ConfigIL-2 version 2.012, Win7 x64

 

Detailed description:

 

Cold conditions, I took the Stalingrad winter map and a quick mission to easily illustrate the problem with a track. For me it's happening 1 times out of 2, or 2/3.

 

Two different ways to auto-start, since there are several engines. Assume standard control mapping.

1) Auto-start both engines with 'E'

2) Auto-start engine 1 with 'CtrlD-1', then 2 with 'CtrlD-2'

 

Both have the same outcome:

- engine 1 is started and running

- throttle 1 is set on idle

- engine 2 is started

- throttle 2 is set on idle

 

=> engine 1 stalls quickly after it is set on idle and engine 2 is being primed. There is a coughing sound a little before.

 

This seems pretty much plausible to me, so the system modelling is fine, but the auto-procedure is not, we just don't set an engine on idle just after it started, especially under winter conditions.

 

Word-around:

 

Depending on the method:

1) with 'E' - select engine 1 after it is started, and move the throttle to set an acceptable RPM (800-1000) to give the engine a chance to warm up. Do the same for engine 2 when you're in control again.

2) With 'CtrlD-1', after the engine 1 has started and before doing 'CtrlD-2' for engine 2, adjust the throttle as in 1) above. Do the same for engine 2 when you're in control again.

 

CAUTION, if you move the throttle while the 'auto-start' procedure is engaged, the throttle tends to move in big quantas, it directly jumps from 0 to 20% or so. Not good for the engine, and you'll probably draw some doughnuts on the ground. This seems like a bug #2 for this report.

 

Additional assets: track file with short start-up sequence that fails on engine 1

 

Track.engine_stall.zip

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Brief description: Yak 7b has insufficient up elevator trim.

Detailed description, conditions: The Yak 7b cannot be trimmed for a reasonable landing approach speed, due to insufficient up elevator trim. 

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Brief Description:    Spitfire IXe Damage model bug

Detailed Description:  Upon receiving slight damage to the air frame, (even just 1 or 2 small calibre fire which doesn't leave any visible damage to the aircraft) the aircraft exhibits strange flight characteristics. Upon level flight the aircraft "wobbles" on all axis's as if one of the control surfaces has been lost control of, this "damage" also severely increases drag which decreases top speed massively. I could understand this behaviour if Large portions of a wing were missing and several control surfaces were damaged but at the moment it it is so ridiculous my only conclusion is that it must be a bug! 😕

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Brief Description: Inefficient cooling on FW190A5 and FW190A8 / FW190F8

 

Detailed Description: 

AFAIK shutters in the 190 should be operated like this:

- on the ground: open

- in extended climbs: half open

- everything else: closed.

The rest was done by the engineers back home.

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like this in game, and the Fw does overheat.


Please also see:

 

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Brief Description: Very different temperatures on FW190A8 and FW190A5

 

Detailed Description: 

In every identical situation with identical circumstances the temperature of FW190A-8 is 10-20 degrees higher than is case of FW190A-5 with identical engine and cooling system.

Autopilot, Moscow, winter, low alt

FW109A-5, cowl flaps 1/5 open, 1.42ata = oil intake temperature 52 deg

FW109A-8, cowl flaps 1/5 open, 1.42ata = oil intake temperature 72 deg

 

Additional assets:

 

 

  • Upvote 2

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Brief description: Blocks contain buildings that can't be destroyed
Detailed description, conditions: The following building blocks contain buildings that can't be destroyed:

  • industrial_block_zavodcement
  • industrial_block_zavodoktyabr
  • industrial_object_zavodkorpys70m

The long "hall" like subentity and the "pipe" type subentity in them do not get destroyed even after multiple 1800 kg bomb direct hits. I had originally set the durability 50000, lowered it to 25000 for testing purposes, and still those subentities didn't get destroyed.

Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs): Logs zip file attached.
 

KubanUndestroyeableBuildings.zip

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Brief description:  Liquid cooled engines have much lower safe temperatures at high altitudes.
Detailed description, conditions:  With increasing altitude boiling point of coolant drops significantly, resulting in coolant leaks and engine malfunctions at much lower temperatures compared to flying at sea level. For example, at sea level Bf109E can safely operate until coolant temperature exceeds 115 degrees - then radiators start to leak and after short amount of time, overheating causes engine damage. However, at 10km altitude, coolant starts boiling just above 80 degrees, resulting in the same damage to engine happening much faster. As far as I know, every type of aircraft with a liquid cooled engine present in game, had it's cooling installation pressurized - that means the boiling point of coolant should be constant at any altitude. Currently, all of the liquid cooled engines act as if the installation was unpressurized, and the critical temperature quickly drops with altitude. Testing was done on Kuban spring map, at standard atmospheric conditions - 760 mmHG, 15 degrees at sea level.

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19 hours ago, =/Hospiz/=MetalHead89250 said:

As far as I know, every type of aircraft with a liquid cooled engine present in game, had it's cooling installation pressurized - that means the boiling point of coolant should be constant at any altitude. Currently, all of the liquid cooled engines act as if the installation was unpressurized, and the critical temperature quickly drops with altitude.

You are wrong.Devs have explained this already.

Look in the orginal 109 G2 Manual, Page 16:

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Me 109/Bf 109 G-2.pdf

109 Emil Page 8

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Me 109e/Bf109 e Handbuch.pdf

 

  • Upvote 1

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1 hour ago, L3Pl4K said:

 Okay, my mistake indeed.

Thanks for those detailed manuals, those I've seen earlier gave only a single never exceed temperature.

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Brief description:

Po-2 (U-2VS) has a DM problem on the ground, its too sensitive


Detailed description, conditions:

Please check this topic about this issue (many noticed this problem):

 

The DM on the ground is too sensitive.

 

It's a STOL/Bush capable plane. Every take off off road = CRASH. 

Please correct DM on the ground for U-2:

"I tried myself, and same problem, could not do anything off runway. Even worse, as soon as the tip of the wing touch the ground, it breaks despite some lower wing surface protection. I believe it needs to be fixed. As far as I know, this plane has off road capabilities."


Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):

Example video:

 


Your PC config data (OS, drivers, specific software):

Signature

Edited by YoYo
  • Like 1

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В 21.12.2018 в 20:35, YoYo сказал:

Brief description:

Po-2 (U-2VS) has a DM problem on the ground, its too sensitive

 

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Posted (edited)

1)Brief description:

P-47D-28 Flight Model issue
I calculated the required lift according to the bank angle from the performance data of P - 47D - 28.
As a result, the flight model may be incorrect.


2)Detailed description:

First, without using a flap, we continued turning horizontally at a bank angle of 60 degrees and verified the minimum speed at which altitude can be maintained.
The result was 152 mph.
In order to support the weight of 6577 kg, the speed is 174 mph when calculated under the following conditions, but I think that it is impossible to continue turning at 152 mph with 2 G turning.
Next, as a result of using the full flap according to the decrease in speed under the same condition, the altitude could be maintained at the speed of 110 mph.
I do not know what is calculating how the lift / drag calculation due to the effect of the flap at the BOS.
According to historical documents, the horizontal stall speed with full flaps of the P-47D had become about 100mph.
From this data, I do not think that the turning altitude can be maintained at 110 mph at a bank angle of 60 degrees.

 

3.Conditions:

P-47D-28

Loaded weight:6577kg(wiki)

Power:2300hp(wiki)

Wing area:27.87m2(wiki)

Flap area:3.68m2(wiki)

Coefficient of lift(CL):1.18( Reynolds 500,000 α=11.0)

http://airfoiltools.com/polar/details?polar=xf-s3-il-500000

wing section :Republic S-3

http://airfoiltools.com/airfoil/details?airfoil=s3-il

Air density:1.293

Armed: 50 cal × 8
Fuel: 100%
Throttle: 100%
Boost: OFF
Start Alt: 4000 ft ~

 

4)Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):

  4-1 No Flap

       This video continued the turn without using the flap and verified how low speed it can turn at 60 degrees bank angle.

 

4-2 Use Flap

     This video is a verification of how low speed you can turn at 60 degrees bank angle, keeping turning using the flap.

Thank you.

Edited by flare_alfred

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Brief description: In Tank Crew now (07.01.2019) "Tiger"'s damage model is unrelistic. Or unrealistic T-34's gun armor piercing ability..

 

Detailed description, conditions:

In multiplayer game T-34 can now destroy "Tiger" at 700-800 (or even at 1500!) m with frontal armor hit, or side armor hit (45 deg angle).

This is totally unrealistic because T-34's 76 mm gun could not pierce 110 mm armor at any range with any shell.

 

tigerarmor.jpg.39352bc13ed5baa18aec43a0fb76c5e7.jpg

tigerarmor2.thumb.jpg.cb9ed537f788b784f9cec940f6844ba1.jpg

 

 

 

Additional information:

Just watch these multiplayer examples

Spoiler


 

 

 

 

 


 

Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):

see above

 

  • Thanks 2

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1)Brief description:

Spit9 Flight Model issue (Flap effect)

2)Detailed description:

The flap was down, the throttle was zeroed, and the control stick was raised and tested not to lower the nose in response to the decrease in speed.

As a result, I did not stop the wingtip until the end and lowered the altitude while maintaining the level.
Is this flight model correct?

I think that can not be aerodynamically.

 

3.Conditions:

Spit 9

Throttle: 0%

Flap fll down
Boost: OFF
Start Alt: 4000 ft ~

 

4)Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, flare_alfred said:

I think that can not be aerodynamically.

 

I am not sure exactly which part you are saying is wrong.   The aircraft in real life & in-game is supposed to be landed at around 90mph nose up with full flaps and in RL this was often done while in a continuous turn.   You appear to be saying that you think it should drop a wing in those conditions even when being held level.

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5 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

I am not sure exactly which part you are saying is wrong.   The aircraft in real life & in-game is supposed to be landed at around 90mph nose up with full flaps and in RL this was often done while in a continuous turn.   You appear to be saying that you think it should drop a wing in those conditions even when being held level. 

 

Hi,

Aerodynamically, the lower the speed, the lower the lift.
When this happens, the nose drops because the Aerodynamic center is ahead of the center of gravity.
As the nose drops, the pilot raises the elevator and tries to keep it level.
In the case of the Spitfire, the airfoil starts at about the center of the wing and then spreads towards the wing tip.
In that sense, it is an airfoil that is less prone to tip stall than other aircraft.
However, eventually the elevator will be fully up and it will be impossible to continue raising the nose any further.
When that happens, the lift will not support the aircraft and the nose will either go down significantly or roll completely in either direction and will stall completely.

However, the game's spit will not lower the nose much, even if the elevator is fully up. I will descend while keeping the nose slightly lowered.

As a result, the speed does not fall below a certain speed.
In other words, it is possible to keep lowering the altitude without completely stalling.

With few exceptions, I do not know an aircraft that can go down from 4000 feet to ground level with the elevator fully up.

I checked some of the other planes in the game.
However, only Spitfire did not stall completely even if it continued pulling the elevator to the limit.

 

thank you.

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Posted (edited)

 In your video you always kept enough power on to avoid going anywhere near the stall speed and you were using your ailerons to stop the wings dropping.  

 

Here is what the National Advisory Commision for Aeronautic said after testing in 1942

 

 "In the gliding condition with the gun ports covered, the airplane showed no tendency to roll off. "

 

"At approximately 6 miles per hour above the minimum. speed, the tufts (NOTE: They attached tufts to the wings to see the airflow)  fluctuated above the entire left side of the center section and some right aileron motion was needed to maintain trim. A mild pitching and yawing oscillation developed, but no tendency to roll was observed. In no case did the flow ahead of the ailerons separate from the wing surface. . The shaking of the airplane caused some movement of the controls, in spite of the efforts of the pilot to hold them fixed.

 

"Stalling characteristics in the landing condition of flight.- ........... The motion beyond the stall was not violent and an unusual amount of lateral control was available in many flight conditions, even when full up elevator was applied. "

 

Stalling characteristics in the landing  approach condition of flight.- During actual landing-glide approaches with the Spitfire, control of the angle of attack was more difficult than in some other pursuit airplanes because of its lack of longitudinal stability. The unmistakable warning in the form of buffeting and the extremely mild stall itself, however, permitted the pilot to make tail-first landings without difficulty.

 

So they seem to be saying that it stall behaviour is very mild.   They mention that the elevator control becomes very poor at the stall but even with full up elevator it has no tendency to drop a wing and if it does it is easily stopped (as you were doing in the video).  There should be heavy buffeting which we do not see in game and it mentioned a mild rolling oscillation which we seem to see in the video..   

 

The report also said   " The Spitfire did not exhibit any marked rolling or yawing tendencies either at contact or in the landing run."    also " The airplane exhibited no dangerous ground-looping tendencies in landing. "     I wish Jason could read that 🙂

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex

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On 3/22/2019 at 6:54 AM, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 In your video you always kept enough power on to avoid going anywhere near the stall speed and you were using your ailerons to stop the wings dropping.  

 

Here is what the National Advisory Commision for Aeronautic said after testing in 1942

 

 "In the gliding condition with the gun ports covered, the airplane showed no tendency to roll off. "

 

"At approximately 6 miles per hour above the minimum. speed, the tufts (NOTE: They attached tufts to the wings to see the airflow)  fluctuated above the entire left side of the center section and some right aileron motion was needed to maintain trim. A mild pitching and yawing oscillation developed, but no tendency to roll was observed. In no case did the flow ahead of the ailerons separate from the wing surface. . The shaking of the airplane caused some movement of the controls, in spite of the efforts of the pilot to hold them fixed.

 

"Stalling characteristics in the landing condition of flight.- ........... The motion beyond the stall was not violent and an unusual amount of lateral control was available in many flight conditions, even when full up elevator was applied. "

 

Stalling characteristics in the landing  approach condition of flight.- During actual landing-glide approaches with the Spitfire, control of the angle of attack was more difficult than in some other pursuit airplanes because of its lack of longitudinal stability. The unmistakable warning in the form of buffeting and the extremely mild stall itself, however, permitted the pilot to make tail-first landings without difficulty.

 

So they seem to be saying that it stall behaviour is very mild.   They mention that the elevator control becomes very poor at the stall but even with full up elevator it has no tendency to drop a wing and if it does it is easily stopped (as you were doing in the video).  There should be heavy buffeting which we do not see in game and it mentioned a mild rolling oscillation which we seem to see in the video..   

 

The report also said   " The Spitfire did not exhibit any marked rolling or yawing tendencies either at contact or in the landing run."    also " The airplane exhibited no dangerous ground-looping tendencies in landing. "     I wish Jason could read that 🙂

 

Thanks for the response.

i think you miss understood.
The throttle is off.

The videos I made maybe confuse you.
So I took a video again.

 

The Spitfire is very stable even at low speeds.

There is no problem with easy control at a speed of about 6 miles from the minimum speed.
I problem that turning the throttle off and pitch up does not reach the minimum speed.

thank you.

 

 

 

 

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Guys, this isn't the topic to discuss bug reports.

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Brief description: Engine damage no longer emit black smoke

Detailed description, conditions: so back in the day, sometimes when your engine got shot, you will trail black smoke coming from the engine(similar to that FW190 black smoke when it goes full power but thicker), another way to make this is when you are flying HE111 and put emergency power long enough, the engine will get damage and trail black smokes, now it doesn't do that anymore. Now the plane will only emit black smoke when the engine is about to quit. this isn't coolant or oil leak since you can a fluid leak while having a healthy engine(until you ran out of fluid).

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11 hours ago, KroatJG52 said:

I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts, if any, on the FM issues raised in this video. 

 

It's been beat to death by the usual suspects in other topics already.

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The biggest bug in Spit9 is the "invincible flap"
you never stall with flap down. full pull back on the stick take off with flap down is safety. 
but it's early access, patient....patient....

Edited by Oyster_KAI

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6 hours ago, Oyster_KAI said:

The biggest bug in Spit9 is the "invincible flap"
you never stall with flap down. full pull back on the stick take off with flap down is safety. 
but it's early access, patient....patient....

 

Yes, I tested that; it is fun. Hopefully issues such as that, the sideslip modeling, and dive modeling are FM issues that are prioritized.

7 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

It's been beat to death by the usual suspects in other topics already.

Already!? I'll have to track down these topics and resuscitate this dead conversation. Now I'm curious about these 'usual' suspects too.

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