The Bomber Pilot's Bar

[Emgy]

Meanwhile, the ground crew is running for its life....

[Freycinet]

I'm calling this one "OneEyedDog and Chuck Land in a Blaze of Glory".

 

You guys may want to check your radiator settings... ;-)

[ACG_KaiLae]

Wondering if Snarglepuss has a copy yet, would like to see some snarglesnacks given out lol.

[Chuck_Owl]

You guys may want to check your radiator settings... ;-)

Oh no... radiators were all right. We were returning from a bombing run on Pitomnik and we had to land at the closest airfield because we were getting short on fuel. We then had to fly through a swarm of 109s to be able to land. We got shot at quite a few times and lost JimTM unfortunately. Only dog and I made it.

[pilotpierre]

Very professional and immersive, thanks for posting.

[MarcoRossolini]

When ever I see this thread I always imagine a bunch of depressed and inebriated guys at a bar who have to every day face swarms of fighters for little gain... 

 

Salute to you.

[Pharoah]

I finally figured out where/how to map the radiators (oil, water, etc). finally. For some reason my controls kept getting reversed so I was closing when I thought I was opening. Anyway, all good now *whew*. 

[Chuck_Owl]

Dearest fellow bomber boys (and girls?),

 

I am struggling to master the art of dive bombing with both the Pe-2 and the Ju-87. Would a kind soul give me tips for accurate dive-bombing procedures so I can implement them in the aircraft guides?

[Sim]

I am struggling to master the art of dive bombing with both the Pe-2 and the Ju-87. Would a kind soul give me tips for accurate dive-bombing procedures so I can implement them in the aircraft guides?

 

From what I have read, the official by-the-book "Stuka attack" procedure was:

 

- fly in 4000-5000 km height

- extend hydraulic speed brakes just before the target

- let the target move into the bottom window in the cockpit below your feet

- wait for the target to disappear in the back edge of the window

- optionally turn on sirens

- pull forward the stick, shut the throttle and enter the dive

- note that it was not uncommon to enter the initial dive into 90-100 angle and then adjust for the normal 70 dive angle

- the speed brakes should keep your speed at a steady 450 km/h

- check your right lead angles on the window

- track your target with a crosshair (keep it centered)

- check your dive altimeter (it had an adjustable altitude marker you could set for a desired bomb release altitude)

- when the altitude marker had passed - a loud and clear horn signal was sounded

- once the signal was sounded - the pilot was supposed to release the bombs and level up

- by pressing the bomb release button - automatic hydraulic recovery device was activated to help the pilot with heavy G-load and pull out of the dive

- the bombs should be released at ~700 meters (500 meters were used by very experienced Stuka pilots)

- retract dive brakes and escape in a level flight (don't pull up, usually only flight leader would pull up to observe the impact)

 

Stuka pilots were trained and able to drop their bombs using this procedure in a 10 meter radius from the target. Some procedures are not modelled in BoS yet (auto-recovery and dive altimeter signal).

[Chuck_Owl]

From what I have read, the official by-the-book "Stuka attack" procedure was:

 

- fly in 4000-5000 km height

- extend hydraulic speed brakes just before the target

- let the target move into the bottom window in the cockpit below your feet

- wait for the target to disappear in the back edge of the window

- optionally turn on sirens

- pull forward the stick, shut the throttle and enter the dive

- note that it was not uncommon to enter the initial dive into 90-100 angle and then adjust for the normal 70 dive angle

- the speed brakes should keep your speed at a steady 450 km/h

- check your right lead angles on the window

- track your target with a crosshair (keep it centered)

- check your dive altimeter (it had an adjustable altitude marker you could set for a desired bomb release altitude)

- when the altitude marker had passed - a loud and clear horn signal was sounded

- once the signal was sounded - the pilot was supposed to release the bombs and level up

- by pressing the bomb release button - automatic hydraulic recovery device was activated to help the pilot with heavy G-load and pull out of the dive

- the bombs should be released at ~700 meters (500 meters were used by very experienced Stuka pilots)

- retract dive brakes and escape in a level flight (don't pull up, usually only flight leader would pull up to observe the impact)

 

Stuka pilots were trained and able to drop their bombs using this procedure in a 10 meter radius from the target. Some procedures are not modelled in BoS yet (auto-recovery and dive altimeter signal).

 

I heard about the floor window for the Ju-87... but is there a key to open it? I haven't found it yet.

 

What interests me more is how pilots would line up and know exactly where their bomb would land. What did they use as a reference? What dive angle did they use? How did they know what dive angle they were at?

 

The same can be asked for the Pe-2.

[Sim]

I heard about the floor window for the Ju-87... but is there a key to open it? I haven't found it yet.

 

It's the "open bomb bay doors" key.

 

 

What interests me more is how pilots would line up and know exactly where their bomb would land. What did they use as a reference? What dive angle did they use? How did they know what dive angle they were at?

 

The dive angle was 70 degrees. If you look on the Stuka window (can't remember which one exactly, if it's right or left) - there is a helper for establishing the dive angle.

[VR-DriftaholiC]

I read the proper dive angle was 80 deg starting from 4500m and release at 1000m.  

[Chuck_Owl]

 there is a helper for establishing the dive angle.

 

You need to align the red line parallel with the horizon I suppose. Isn't it a bit hard? Seems like the wing hides the horizon line...

[Plurp]

Dearest fellow bomber boys (and girls?),

 

I am struggling to master the art of dive bombing with both the Pe-2 and the Ju-87. Would a kind soul give me tips for accurate dive-bombing procedures so I can implement them in the aircraft guides?

 

For the Pe-2.  It seems very similar to the 88, so I figured I would test it out to see what I could come up with. I have only started testing so consider this a WIP.  I started at 5k. 

 

1. Find the target in the bombsight by manually changing the view to look farther forward and line it up with the crosshairs.

2. Go back to the cockpit and you should find the target in the left side on the bottom windows.

3. When the target reaches the bar at the bottom of the middle window, hit the airbrake, disengage AP if on, chop throttle.  Apply forward pressure on the yoke until the target is lined up with the crosshairs.  Close the water rads and watch your trim by stepping on the ball.  The plane should be in a 70 to 80 deg dive. (Guesstimate)  You will reach around 700 km/h doing this.

4. Keep the target in the crosshairs until you reach 1000m and then hit the bomb drop bottom for however many bombs you want to drop.  ( Changing to all in the bombsight has no affect.  I changed to 2 500 kg bombs so you only have to hit the button twice.)

5.  Pullout to level fight, close the airbrake, apply throttle and open the water rads.

 

I hope this helps.

[Chuck_Owl]

Some more action on the Syndicate server.

[kestrel79]

Awesome video Chuck! Large bomber formations rule.

 

For your default view it looks like you are zoomed out a bit more than my stock one. Also it looks like your zoom is set to a slider of some sorts when you zoom your head in. Care to share your settings?

[KG200_Volker]

Chuck, if it's ok with you I m translating your guides to Greek, when I finish with one I will send it to you in order to upload/add to your collection, with your permission of course. (He 111 is first obviously!)

[KG200_Volker]

Oh, another thing, dunno who is close to devs please pass the request to add a little dispersion to the bombs as they fall, I know they have a milion things in their mind right now, I m just saying if possible in the future. Right now they seem to linear and to close together.

 

Check this to get an idea:

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675023582_Heinkel-HE-111-bombers_bombs-away_Soviet-fighter-plane_machine-gun

Edited September 19, 2014 by KG200_Volker

[MarcoRossolini]

 

The same can be asked for the Pe-2.

 

I don't know, I've not had a procedure for divebombing, but I've had great results.

 

My suggestions are a) know your target (duh), if you have the chance, circle the target to identify the most juicy spot.

 

I'm generally almost directly over my target and I dive at an extremely steep angle with the throttle fully back. I line up my sights directly at it, air brakes fully extended, generally I get up to 600km/h at the final stage of the dive. At about 6-700 metres I drop my bombs (with the smaller ones remember to open the bomb bay doors) and then I scoot away, retracting the airbrake immediately applying full throttle as I do so. 

 

It's more instinct for me though I'm afraid. That's not much help.

 

The speed and angle I'm at means my bombs are going the same way as my aircraft (which is good, because my cross hair will be right over the target) and so far I've recorded pretty accurate bomb strikes. Best moment so far was on syndicate where I caught a Heinkel on the ground with 2 500s (yeah, overkill, but I wasn't sure of my bombs back then) which annihilated him and, as he made clear in chat, he wasn't very pleased. 

I topped it off by strafing another Heinkel on the runway, setting fire to him. It was glorious.

 

I like my Pe-2 alot.

[[JG2]Surf]

Just curious...how are everyone's navigational skills progressing? VFR is fun...but most challenging in BoS. Love the He111 and this software.

[Pharoah]

its hard. There aren't that many landmarks, and they look relatively similar. Its only when you see squiggly rivers, or something distinctive like that, that you can do proper ground-to-map navigation. Otherwise, good luck

[Dakpilot]

Time speed and distance  for those not interested in maths a simple guide here

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/10727-speed-time/

 

A little bit of flight planning goes a long way

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/10769-please-could-you-fix-map/?p=164848

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[MarcoRossolini]

its hard. There aren't that many landmarks, and they look relatively similar. Its only when you see squiggly rivers, or something distinctive like that, that you can do proper ground-to-map navigation. Otherwise, good luck

Dead reckoning for me.

[=KG76=flyus747]

On 8/31/2014 at 9:19 PM, Chuck_Owl said:

 

Chuck, I've been learning how to bomb recently and saw your guides except none of the links work anymore, can you PM them over?

 

I mostly fly the 111, almost religiously haha

[Chuck_Owl]

https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-il2-battle-of-stalingrad/ for the BoS He-111 H-6

 

https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-il-2-cliffs-of-dover/ for the CloD He-111 H-2

[=KG76=flyus747]

15 hours ago, Chuck_Owl said:

https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-il2-battle-of-stalingrad/ for the BoS He-111 H-6

 

https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-il-2-cliffs-of-dover/ for the CloD He-111 H-2

Thanks Chuck!