TFS - Mid-year update 2025

[Buffo002]

It's been said here many times and for a long time. TFS said that they won't release patches one by one (like 4K, True Sky, sounds, VR, better vegetation graphics, etc.) but that they will release them when everything is ready... 

[Mysticpuma]

48 minutes ago, Buffo002 said:

It's been said here many times and for a long time. TFS said that they won't release patches one by one (like 4K, True Sky, sounds, VR, better vegetation graphics, etc.) but that they will release them when everything is ready... 

Which, based at on the speed they are building V6, means we are unlikely to see anything until probably 2028 if they absolutely won't a split them apart 

[BladeMeister]

1 hour ago, Buffo002 said:

It's been said here many times and for a long time. TFS said that they won't release patches one by one (like 4K, True Sky, sounds, VR, better vegetation graphics, etc.) but that they will release them when everything is ready... 

And this idea is "cutting your own nose off to spite your face". I am starting to wonder what Fulgrum? thinks of the whole situation? I mean they had to shell out a pretty penny for COD I feel sure, and to just endlessly wait for the first product release? Somebody somewhere must be getting a little hot under the collar about their return on investment, which so far is zero $.

 

S!Blade<><

[paul_leonard]

8 hours ago, Semor76 said:

Dont want to be the show stopper here, but look at the screenshot. (which was taken a few minutes ago) 10 People are left. In Words: Ten....

 

We have a German saying for this: Der Zug ist längst abgefahren. Or in English: Elvis has left the building (long time ago)

 

 

Careful how you interpret these charts.  My read is that if you look at the 3 month chart it indicates an hourly average of 35 players in-game across each the 24 hours of the day which would imply 850 players per day if they each played for an hour.  Depending on what you assume about how many hours a person plays per week, say 2 hours per week, then there would be about 3,000 regular players any given week.  That is more than the 10 in your time zone when you took the above image.

[marcost]

Maybe not helpful that it was broadcast early on that the VU and associated non-VR improvements would be free. If that hadn't happened, there might have been a commercial argument for releasing them on their own i.e. for a fee. 

 

Personally, I would have thought that keeping the community alive would be sufficient reason alone.

 

Perhaps they're in a vicious circle where projected future sales are used to determine funding for development. Looking at the server stats, I hope none of them need a new mousemat anytime soon.

[Buffo002]

5 minutes ago, marcost said:

Maybe not helpful that it was broadcast early on that the VU and associated non-VR improvements would be free. If that hadn't happened, there might have been a commercial argument for releasing them on their own i.e. for a fee. 

 

Personally, I would have thought that keeping the community alive would be sufficient reason alone.

 

Perhaps they're in a vicious circle where projected future sales are used to determine funding for development. Looking at the server stats, I hope none of them need a new mousemat anytime soon.

Of course, when it comes to VR, 4K, True Sky, sounds and other adjustments and effects should be free.

[Mysticpuma]

6 minutes ago, Buffo002 said:

Of course, when it comes to VR, 4K, True Sky, sounds and other adjustments and effects should be free.

Which they already said would be free to all users even if they don't buy V6, which begs the question, why are they so desperate to keep the two fused together?

Get the community back, then sell your V6 to them.

[Dagwoodyt]

4 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

They need to get the VU out and then release V6 when they can. Doing anything other than that would seem to be the highest level of narcissistic behaviour.

 

There is a secondary gain enjoyed by insisting on releasing the VR/VU as a package. By insisting on that stipulation the decision maker does not ever have to show the current condition of the proposed VR/VU "freebie". Since no info is allowed out, given protection thru various NDA's and/or non-disparagement agreements, top echelon staff could even be working for another developer without anyone's knowledge. No matter the real explanation for the silence, it is a self-defeating practice.😉

[DD_Arthur]

2 hours ago, paul_leonard said:

Careful how you interpret these charts.  My read is that if you look at the 3 month chart it indicates an hourly average of 35 players in-game across each the 24 hours of the day which would imply 850 players per day if they each played for an hour.  Depending on what you assume about how many hours a person plays per week, say 2 hours per week, then there would be about 3,000 regular players any given week.  That is more than the 10 in your time zone when you took the above image.

 

That's a very 'Team Fusion' interpretation of Steam's figures and a complete misreading of them.

Semor obviously took his snapshot around midday euro time.  Ten players globally is now an average figure for this time of day. Yes, these are global figures, not by timezone.

 

Try these for size;

https://steamcharts.com/app/754530

 

If you look down through the years you can see how TFS 'leadership' destroyed the player base by consistently over promising and under delivering.

We have the much heralded TFS 4.5 'Blitz Edition' update released at the end of 2017 after an enormous wait and enormous hype. Such was the communities reaction "Is that it?" the player base had more than halved within two months and the steady decline set in.

Onto August 2020 and the release of Tobruk. At last, after seven years of 'it's just around the corner!' some actual new content was produced. 

As you can see, the euphoria lasted around a month before the steady decline set in again....

 

....and here we are, on very familiar ground. No news is...no news and the dead hand of TFS leadership steers the boat onwards to oblivion.

 

[Aapje]

4 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

And this idea is "cutting your own nose off to spite your face". I am starting to wonder what Fulgrum? thinks of the whole situation? I mean they had to shell out a pretty penny for COD I feel sure, and to just endlessly wait for the first product release? Somebody somewhere must be getting a little hot under the collar about their return on investment, which so far is zero $.

 

Why do you think that they paid a lot for it? Sales tend to be heavily front-loaded, the game never did well in the first place and the game was not sold with up-to-date source code or tooling. So the expected further income would be low and 1C probably was happy to get rid of it, so they don't have to deal with support requests, complaints, etc.

 

I bet that the calculated value assumed no TFS releases, so that there were any at all, with an increase in sales due to it, probably means that they made a decent profit already. Any new releases would just be icing on the cake for them.

 

Since TFS has a profit-sharing contract, the one big victim of delays is the TFS team themselves, since they are actually putting in the work, and the more hours they spend without a release, the less they get per hour worked.

[paul_leonard]

Everything has a half-life. Everything. 

 

I have been a participant in the VRbeta since the beginning.  It is certainly clear to me that the team thought they were making available a beta version of the VR back then, and that it was close.  It was not and the solution has been elusive for a long time.  Not for lack of trying from what I have seen.  It's clear what you all crave is a newsfeed.  But it's also clear that you are not going to get it  until there is news to share.  Frustrating?  I'm sure.  To me too.  But I just have to wait, like you do.  Blame whomever you want.  But your complaints of overpromising and underdelivering, for whatever reason, have been heard.  Now you get crickets.

[Mysticpuma]

7 minutes ago, paul_leonard said:

Everything has a half-life. Everything. 

 

I have been a participant in the VRbeta since the beginning.  It is certainly clear to me that the team thought they were making available a beta version of the VR back then, and that it was close.  It was not and the solution has been elusive for a long time.  Not for lack of trying from what I have seen.  It's clear what you all crave is a newsfeed.  But it's also clear that you are not going to get it  until there is news to share.  Frustrating?  I'm sure.  To me too.  But I just have to wait, like you do.  Blame whomever you want.  But your complaints of overpromising and underdelivering, for whatever reason, have been heard.  Now you get crickets.

I guess they'll be joining the dead crickets we already have.

 

But, it's no surprise that we get blamed for the lack of news from TFS. How dare we ask for information on the current state of work.

[Dagwoodyt]

5 minutes ago, paul_leonard said:

Everything has a half-life. Everything. 

 

I have been a participant in the VRbeta since the beginning.  It is certainly clear to me that the team thought they were making available a beta version of the VR back then, and that it was close.  It was not and the solution has been elusive for a long time.  Not for lack of trying from what I have seen.  It's clear what you all crave is a newsfeed.  But it's also clear that you are not going to get it  until there is news to share.  Frustrating?  I'm sure.  To me too.  But I just have to wait, like you do.  Blame whomever you want.  But your complaints of overpromising and underdelivering, for whatever reason, have been heard.  Now you get crickets.

"Crickets" is better than misleading statements regarding current status of the VR/VU upgrade. Also, testimonials from a "muzzled" staff aren't in any way reassuring.

17 minutes ago, paul_leonard said:

Now you get crickets.

So blame customers for asking "what's up?"🤣

[DD_Arthur]

4 minutes ago, paul_leonard said:

 But your complaints of overpromising and underdelivering, for whatever reason, have been heard.  Now you get crickets.

 

Almost true. The reality is now revealed for what it has been for a long time now; there's simply nothing going on that's actually worth talking about....

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

39 minutes ago, Aapje said:

Since TFS has a profit-sharing contract, the one big victim of delays is the TFS team themselves, since they are actually putting in the work, and the more hours they spend without a release, the less they get per hour worked.

My understanding is that distributions to Team members are only made when and if funds are available. Who makes that determination?🤔

[No.54_Reddog]

8 hours ago, 354thFG_Leifr said:

Not to worry folks, Buzzsaw will be along soon and give us another yearly update on next year's update. 😚

I'm only interested if it uses the word "hope". That word has been doing some heavy lifting for about 10 years now...

1 minute ago, Dagwoodyt said:

My understanding is that distributions to Team members are only made when and if funds are available. Who makes that determination?🤔

Presumably the owner of Team Fusion Simulations, it's sole director,  and as of recent times, resident scarlet pimpernel - they seek him here, they seek him there, but Buzzsaw cannot be found anywhere!

[Mysticpuma]

 

[No.54_Reddog]

Guys. Let's not all pile on @paul_leonard. He has had the good good grace to engage with the community and he should not be targetted or maligned for what is someone elses decisions and actions just because he is brave enough to put his head above the parapet.

 

I will say this though Paul, nobody appears to be asking for "promises" as you appear to think, we have had more than enough of those. What we would like is the truth. Something a professional group, who allegedly are working for the benefit of the community in the first place, should be able to provide in relative comfort, without breaching any NDA, confidentiality or commercial agreement. If by trying to hold the person/ people making decisions that affect the community, who have so far been entirely unforthcoming to account is somehow wrong, then I guess you're right it is all our fault. But having put in my own thousands of hours, and not inconsiderable funds to developing and running a server I do find it slightly odd I have no ability to pass judgement or comment on what has been the greatest squandering of opportunity I think I personally have ever witnessed... 

 

I say community, but i mean what is left of it - the demise of the playerbase is not a new topic and has been widely discussed and noted over the years and routinely rubbished as "if we build.it they will come back". In investing it is called a dead cat bounce, but here it will absolutely not be that. We just need a little more patience...(I jest of course.)

[paul_leonard]

4 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

 

I'm Canadian not British.  So I don't get the joke.  But... I have a coat just like that!  Too funny.

[Dagwoodyt]

WRT the Enigma video, I recall Mike and Oly(?) stating that VR is "hard". What I don't recall is any mention of mechanisms that might make VR more playable for mid and lower level hardware. Specifically those techniques should include eye-tracking with QVFR, DFR and DLSS. I wonder if the VR/VU upgrade would include those options. I'd not like to think that, should the VR/VU package become available in 2027, that it might reflect state-of-the art for year 2017.🤔

[paul_leonard]

4 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

Guys. Let's not all pile on @paul_leonard. He has had the good good grace to engage with the community and he should not be targetted or maligned for what is someone elses decisions and actions just because he is brave enough to put his head above the parapet.

 

I will say this though Paul, nobody appears to be asking for "promises" as you appear to think, we have had more than enough of those. What we would like is the truth. Something a professional group, who allegedly are working for the benefit of the community in the first place, should be able to provide in relative comfort, without breaching any NDA, confidentiality or commercial agreement. If by trying to hold the person/ people making decisions that affect the community, who have so far been entirely unforthcoming to account is somehow wrong, then I guess you're right it is all our fault. But having put in my own thousands of hours, and not inconsiderable funds to developing and running a server I do find it slightly odd I have no ability to pass judgement or comment on what has been the greatest squandering of opportunity I think I personally have ever witnessed... 

 

I say community, but i mean what is left of it - the demise of the playerbase is not a new topic and has been widely discussed and noted over the years and routinely rubbished as "if we build.it they will come back". In investing it is called a dead cat bounce, but here it will absolutely not be that. We just need a little more patience...(I jest of course.)

No.54_Reddog, thank you for coming to my defence.  But I took not offence to any of the comments.  I think they are all made with honest intent.  

 

As someone who has run a business, I don't really think Team Fusion owes you, or the community anything.  You purchased the product a long time ago, likely as I did on the first day the CD box was released to the local computer game store in 2011 (in my case the local Electronics Boutique) and I suspect you have extracted full value out of the gameplay you have already experienced (today when on sale, the game is practically given away for a pittance to new purchasers and if I recall the Blitz edition was also free for those of us who owned the original version).  Rest assured Team Fusion members are not earning even said mousepad for their work.  No business has an obligation to its customer base to communicate anything if it doesn't so wish, and yes, that can come with negative outcomes, as you all legitimately point out.  Corporate communication is marketing, designed ultimately to support sales.  If there are no sale revenues forthcoming, in today's case because Team Fusion actually committed to provide the VR and visual improvements for free, what incentive is there for any communication whatsoever?  The free product will arrive when it arrives.  Whether it rejuvenates the player base will have to be seen.  I was born 20 years after the Battle of Britain but in 15 years it will be a century since (I really meant it when I said we all have a half-life, and I'm past that).  I'm not sure what the measure of success will be, or needs to be, although interestingly in the past several years there has seemed to be a renewed interest in at least publishing books on the subject.

 

I made the decision to volunteer my time, and a considerable amount, to continue to improve the product.  As a volunteer I do not have insight, or influence, on the priorities and work being done, outside of my direct contribution.  But I have had the opportunity to work within the VR visual update environment and I have to say, it is an extraordinary place to fly and virtually dogfight in (so much better than the flat screen world) ... and then it CTD's.  Sigh.  

 

The people working on the product are not doing it for money, far from it.  There is no cat to bounce.  In my personal case it is more like my white whale.  From my own discussions with other Team Fusion contributors, they do it because they are simply passionate about the sim.  I'm pretty sure most of you who will read this are also passionate about the sim... and also I've found myself learning a lot from you lot.  So here I am.

 

I agree, there may have been some missed opportunities, but I also remember what a piece of shite the original game was... but it was, and is, also sooooo gooood.   That certainly was a missed opportunity.  I came back in 2020 because I told myself that this game needed 10 years of PC performance improvement before it could even have a chance of running properly.  I was close, maybe a few more.  My gap years included those Storm of War years, now inaccessible.  My loss.

 

 

 

[Mysticpuma]

3 hours ago, paul_leonard said:

I'm Canadian not British.  So I don't get the joke.  But... I have a coat just like that!  Too funny.

I assume it's Buzzsaw, as he is the person who doesn't want to be found.

[Mysticpuma]

8 hours ago, paul_leonard said:

Corporate communication is marketing, designed ultimately to support sales.  If there are no sale revenues forthcoming, in today's case because Team Fusion actually committed to provide the VR and visual improvements for free, what incentive is there for any communication whatsoever? 

Hi Paul. Similar to Reddog, I absolutely want no targeting of you. You have been another ray of light in the TFS chasm, and it is obvious from your posts, you really want to make the Single Player experience something to be proud of. I know, as I have mentioned previously, just how invested you are and have been in trying to fix myriad of issues with the Ai and take onboard suggestions, feed them back, and 'we hope' something can be done about it. Having tested barely a few of the missions you have worked on, I know players will be delighted to see what can actually be done with airfields and missions, finally bringing them to life.

 

I have to say though that the text I quote isn't as it seems though. Yes, 'we' are an inquisitive bunch, but due to TFS reticence to release V6 UNLESS all the features of the VU (TS/ST/VR) work with it, then those features being a 'free' upgrade are intrinsically tied to the progress of V6. So when questions get asked about the progress of V6, these are to try and gauge the progress of the overall package. However there is little to no information being passed about V6 progress, and therefore no information on if we'll ever see the VU. 

 

I posted this 6-months ago:

 

"The reality is, the aircraft list for "Fortresses and Focke Wulfs" is as follows:

 

New Aircraft

 

Focke-Wulf 190A-1

Focke-Wulf 190A-2

Focke-Wulf 190A-3

Messerschmitt Bf-109G-2

Messerschmitt Bf-110F-1

Messerschmitt Bf-110F-2

Junkers Ju-88C-6

Junkers Ju-88A-4

Spitfire Mk VC

Spitfire Mk VC 'Clipped Wing'

Spitfire Mk IXA

P-51A-83

P-51A-91

B-17E

Wellington III

Beaufighter VIC

Typhoon Mk IA

Typhoon Mk IB

 

At the very end of December (31st), we got this status update regarding WiP:

Aircraft for TF 6.0

Active in production:

- Typhoon Mk IA/IB (complete and in game).
- Fw 190A-1/A-2/A-3 (externals complete awaiting import, cockpit WIP).
- B-17E (external complete awaiting import, cockpits WIP).
- Morane MS.406 AI (externals complete, awaiting import).
- P-51A (externals and cockpit WIP, two modellers working simultaneously).
- Spitfire Mk IX (externals have begun).
- Ju 88A and C (externals and cockpit have begun).
- Spitfire Mk Vc (adaptation of Spitfire Vb is WIP).
- Swordfish Mk I AI (externals WIP)

 

In February we got an update showing "KMS Scharnhorst".

 

As it stands at the moment, from all the reported content due for V6...and which was due for the end of December 2024...only images of the Typhoon have been shown in game and that was September 2023! So the current status as it stands for V6 being released (as VR, Truesky and Speedtree are still not in the Beta), has to be a long way off. There are still no images of any aircraft for V6 in game, and once they are in game, they still have to be tested.

Realistically, there months of work ahead yet before V6 sees the light of day.

VR beta testing, Speedtree beta testing, Truesky beta testing, Speedtree+VR+Truesky beta testing.

Speedtree+VR+Truesky+All new aircraft individual and collective beta testing including FM+DM.

Then Release Candidate 1, then fixes.

Then Release Candidate 2, then fixes

Then Release candidate 3.... hopefully as good as it will be.

Then Gold and release.

 

Anyone think that will be in the next few months?"

 

 

----------------------------------

 

So now we are 6-months further on from that post, 9-months since the last update on models being imported....and 9-months later, do we see any images of the models other than the Typhoon (shown 2-years ago) in-game? How many people are working on importing the models?

 

This update, at the end of 2024 (when V6 was supposed to be released), indicates just how much work still needed to be done:

 

So, has there been any progress since then, 9-months later?

 

The attitude appears to be, "you don't need to know, you are just the community, the customers, the revenue stream.....just leave us alone and go away, we're ignoring you because you ask questions!"

 

I think it's pretty fair to say, Soto_Cinematics (now Air War Chronicles @AWC), came in, took the bull by the horns and started getting involved with the community, sharing news, passing updates......and now....it appears more than obvious work has again gone to the Glacial, next ice-Age stage, and there is no news to share. If there was, he certainly would be on top of it.

 

This then leaves us with yet another year heading to an end, no further progress on V6 announced (apart from the map work and missions which aren't what is holding V6 back now as is clear from your updated Paul) and (what's left of) the community in limbo...again! 

 

This is why information on V6 is so important, because until that's completed, we'll never see any of the VU and as it stands now, and based on what I said above......

 

"Realistically, there months of work ahead yet before V6 sees the light of day.

VR beta testing, Speedtree beta testing, Truesky beta testing, Speedtree+VR+Truesky beta testing.

Speedtree+VR+Truesky+All new aircraft individual and collective beta testing including FM+DM.

Then Release Candidate 1, then fixes.

Then Release Candidate 2, then fixes

Then Release candidate 3.... hopefully as good as it will be.

Then Gold and release."

 

.....then keeping the community engaged and involved should be a priority, because in another year's time (or another, or another), even those of us who are seen as antagonists will have lost all faith that it can be pushed over the finish line.

 

So back where I started, tying V6 to the VU means we ask questions about V6, because without V6, we get no ST/TS/VR or VU.

Edited September 18 by Mysticpuma

[Mysticpuma]

And when the team lead doesn't even visit the forums any more....is there any wonder why questions are asked?

 

Even on the ATAG forums he last visited over a month ago, and his last post was on May 25th

Edited September 18 by Mysticpuma

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Who knows what happened, he might be sick or something, real life can be a bitch.

[No.54_Reddog]

8 hours ago, paul_leonard said:

 

 

As someone who has run a business, I don't really think Team Fusion owes you, or the community anything.

 

 

 

You see I disagree quite heavily and I would argue that TFS differs from your business in a number of key ways.

 

TFS the legal incorporation as a commercial entity grew from Team Fusion the mod team. I suspect that your business did not grow from a volunteer group.

 

TF was initially aimed at furthering the game for the "community". I suspect your business was aimed at filling a gap in the market and making you and it's shareholders if applicable money.

 

Why I would argue that we are "owed" is that through a series of decisions never opened to the "community", leadership, direction and scope were set by TF. They took ownership of something that was "ours" and have directed its growth, development and subsequent monetisation since. 

 

Whether or not you chose to volunteer time, that was your choice. But please don't pretend that as customers we have not paid for anything. Despite me pre-owning CLOD and running 4.312, I bought Blitz once (to upgrade the server which was not eligible to upgrade due to original owner complications) and then subsequently bought Sand CLOD twice, once for me and once for the server. There are countless players who bought Sand CLOD on the vague promise of future VR. Your assertion that they are owed nothing disenfranchises them entirely which I think grossly unfair.

 

TLDR TFS is not an outright commercial entity and should not be treated like one.

[Dauntless]

2 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

"Sand CLOD"  

 

[Dagwoodyt]

9 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

There are countless players who bought Sand CLOD on the vague promise of future VR.

DWT was actually marketed by enticing users to join the VR "beta" in a YT video from November 2021. Said Sand CloD was a requirement for "beta" access. At one point or other Buzz stated that "anyone" who wanted to could join the VR "beta". 

      So what condition was that "beta" in when those VR recruits ultimately received access in February 2022? Was there any point in time prior to release when the so-called "beta" was actually crash-free or did those recruits get access to an alpha that was already known to be unplayable?

[paul_leonard]

21 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

You see I disagree quite heavily and I would argue that TFS differs from your business in a number of key ways.

 

TFS the legal incorporation as a commercial entity grew from Team Fusion the mod team. I suspect that your business did not grow from a volunteer group.

 

TF was initially aimed at furthering the game for the "community". I suspect your business was aimed at filling a gap in the market and making you and it's shareholders if applicable money.

 

Why I would argue that we are "owed" is that through a series of decisions never opened to the "community", leadership, direction and scope were set by TF. They took ownership of something that was "ours" and have directed its growth, development and subsequent monetisation since. 

 

Whether or not you chose to volunteer time, that was your choice. But please don't pretend that as customers we have not paid for anything. Despite me pre-owning CLOD and running 4.312, I bought Blitz once (to upgrade the server which was not eligible to upgrade due to original owner complications) and then subsequently bought Sand CLOD twice, once for me and once for the server. There are countless players who bought Sand CLOD on the vague promise of future VR. Your assertion that they are owed nothing disenfranchises them entirely which I think grossly unfair.

 

TLDR TFS is not an outright commercial entity and should not be treated like one.

Fair enough.  You are quite right, my business was a purely commercial enterprise.  You are also quite right, I do not have the historical context for this game, as I took a nearly 10-year hiatus.  

 

We may continue to argue about how Team Fusion discharges its future commitments to the community, but I better understand your perspective.

[paul_leonard]

9 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

DWT was actually marketed by enticing users to join the VR "beta" in a YT video from November 2021. Said Sand CloD was a requirement for "beta" access. At one point or other Buzz stated that "anyone" who wanted to could join the VR "beta". 

      So what condition was that "beta" in when those VR recruits ultimately received access in February 2022? Was there any point in time prior to release when the so-called "beta" was actually crash-free or did those recruits get access to an alpha that was already known to be unplayable?

I am one of those original beta testers.  The requirement was both maps, Channel and Tobruk (I presume that is Sand CLoD), and proof you possessed a VR headset.  I don't recall any other limitations at that time.  While I have no insight into the pre-beta release, in the first beta Truesky had been implemented and it looked gorgeous and worked very well in VR..... and then it would CTD, seemingly randomly but persistently, kind of like the original game.  Nothing is random, but I believe that finding the reason(s) has presented the real challenge for the coders.  I also believe the team thought they were much closer than the passage of time indicates.  I also know that a lot of work has, and is currently being done, to isolate the issues and resolve.  The beta tester group is pretty active right now.

[Dagwoodyt]

2 hours ago, paul_leonard said:

While I have no insight into the pre-beta release, in the first beta Truesky had been implemented and it looked gorgeous and worked very well in VR..... and then it would CTD, seemingly randomly but persistently, kind of like the original game.

The fact remains that the promise of VR has been employed as a tool to market DWT/Sand CloD since at least May 2021. The YT marketing video dates from November 2021 and was still available when last I checked. Per the Enigma YT video of this past April 2025 TFS is still using VR to market DWT by claiming, without any supporting evidence, that VR is now working "essentially flawlessly" in the original Blitz/DWT game. 

       In effect, TFS has been using the promise of VR to sell DWT for the past four years, non-stop. That they owe nothing to those customers seems an odd posture to adopt.

[major_setback]

As not everybody has access to the VR beta tester threads it's worth pointing out that a lot of progress has been made there. There was a big bug (in VR) a while ago that was taking an age to fix. That took a lot of time to do, and has kept the coders busy. There are still VR bugs, and these are being worked through by the coders. There are regular releases of new VR beta versions that are tested and any faults assessed. It has been stated - by those doing this work - that once they are happy with the bug-crushing work they are doing they will start to introduce the landscape, objects, TrueSky, SpeedTree trees, grass etc. checking for bugs along the way. That is when progress will become more evident. It will be more visible.

TrueSky - as has been shown in videos earlier - it is pretty much complete. Landscape and objects have come on a long way (none of the above is my section of work, so I can't comment on finer details). So there should be more to see in future updates. Just now there is nothing to show, as the work is all in coding and bug crushing. It's boring. For everyone.

I understand the frustration. It is frustrating that the bug crushing has to take such a lot of time. But it has to be done, and the worst is over, and hopefully, before long, will begin the steady re- introduction of those other elements into the game (again, I'm no expert in that field). 

 

So what can be expected in the near future?

- Continued/final bug crushing regarding VR (involving beta testing along the way).

- Introduction of other elements a bit at a time, in order to see if they cause any issues (beta testing along the way).

 

This isn't an update. All of the above has been stated in the beta forums.

 

.

 

Edited September 23 by major_setback

[Dagwoodyt]

21 hours ago, paul_leonard said:

Rest assured Team Fusion members are not earning even said mousepad for their work.

What of those TFS members who contributed to DWT?

[Blitzen]

20 hours ago, major_setback said:

As not everybody has access to the VR beta tester threads it's worth pointing out that a lot of progress has been made there. There was a big bug (in VR) a while ago that was taking an age to fix. That took a lot of time to do, and has kept the coders busy. There are still VR bugs, and these are being worked through by the coders. There are regular releases of new VR beta versions that are tested and any faults assessed. It has been stated - by those doing this work - that once they are happy with the bug-crushing work they are doing they will start to introduce the landscape, objects, TrueSky, SpeedTree trees, grass etc. checking for bugs along the way. That is when progress will become more evident. It will be more visible.

TrueSky - as has been shown in videos earlier - it is pretty much complete. Landscape and objects have come on a long way (none of the above is my section of work, so I can't comment on finer details). So there should be more to see in future updates. Just now there is nothing to show, as the work is all in coding and bug crushing. It's boring. For everyone.

I understand the frustration. It is frustrating that the bug crushing has to take such a lot of time. But it has to be done, and the worst is over, and hopefully, before long, will begin the steady re- introduction of those other elements into the game (again, I'm no expert in that field). 

 

So what can be expected in the near future?

- Continued/final bug crushing regarding VR (involving beta testing along the way).

- Introduction of other elements a bit at a time, in order to see if they cause any issues (beta testing along the way).

 

This isn't an update. All of the above has been stated in the beta forums.

 

I'd be happy if they would simply get landscaping up and working with VR-it would make flying the de-bugging beta test so much more interesting .I'mgetting more than tired flying over the same old route over southwest England !

[Dagwoodyt]

28 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

I'd be happy if they would simply get landscaping up and working with VR-it would make flying the de-bugging beta test so much more interesting .I'mgetting more than tired flying over the same old route over southwest England !

If us "outsider" customers could at least see the instructions given "beta" testers for each build, that alone would represent a huge step forward in transparency. Otherwise there are simply valueless representations that there is meaningful progress being made on VR. Obviously the current state of the so-called "beta" is at odds with the Enigma video's representation that VR is performing "essentially flawlessly" in the original game. I have a nagging fear that testers will still be seeing the current test environment "essentially" forever.🤔

[No.54_Reddog]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

If us "outsider" customers could at least see the instructions given "beta" testers for each build, that alone would represent a huge step forward in transparency. Otherwise there are simply valueless representations that there is meaningful progress being made on VR. Obviously the current state of the so-called "beta" is at odds with the Enigma video's representation that VR is performing "essentially flawlessly" in the original game. I have a nagging fear that testers will still be seeing the current test environment "essentially" forever.🤔

If you want to know, why not join the Beta? You've been offered often enough?

[Dagwoodyt]

4 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

If you want to know, why not join the Beta? You've been offered often enough?

Who wouldn't jump thru fire to sign a TFS NDA? I don't ever remember seeing a report from an ex-tester describing their test experiences so I guess the message that sends is pretty clear. Thus, you first🤣

[No.54_Reddog]

5 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Who wouldn't jump thru fire to sign a TFS NDA? I don't ever remember seeing a report from an ex-tester describing their test experiences so I guess the message that sends is pretty clear. Thus, you first🤣

I already am a member of the test group. And I had zero issue signing an NDA.

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, No.54_Reddog said:

I already am a member of the test group. And I had zero issue signing an NDA.

I read all the stipulated requirements when the so-called "beta" was first announced and decided "no thank you". When there is a public beta 😉 I definitely will be among the first to try it out and provide comment. No one who had access to the first release build of the "beta" has answered the question of how long it took them to recognize the CDT tendency. 

Edited September 20 by Dagwoodyt

[jdu]

On 9/17/2025 at 2:54 PM, Mysticpuma said:

Yeah, any team member who talks about progress will be in breach of their contract. Ridiculous

You were member of TFS, you should remember that!
Selective memory?