How and why does anyone even enjoy this game without being naturally gifted or having played since the dawn of the genre?

[Lens7]

Because at this point it seems even communication with other people isn't helping. 

 

I seem to have made the mistake of coming back to this game and play on WoL and CB together, with SRS enabled where possible. It seems that the fundamental problem that plagued me before is still there. An absolute skill difference that makes it not even enjoyable to try and improve. 

Try to play defensive and fly patrols over objectives at a safe altitude? An hour passes and no one seems to have showed up while *every* other objective will get blasted, as well as yours the moment you decide to turn and help with the other one. 

Decide to ground pound? Better hope to every god in existence there wasn't someone in a 20 mile radius because otherwise even a 'one pass haul ass' will end with you having 2-3 planes pouncing on your 6 who are all piloted by Adolf Galland reincarnated. And if its not a player, its AAA that will shoot you right in the canopy. 

And somehow they *know* I'm the one to bounce because even when I'm with a group, I'll be the one shot down while the others more than manage to make it out fine. It's not even fun *trying* to improve when there is no opportunity to. It feels like being a lamb to the slaughter for more experienced players just getting kicks off of trying to inflate their feeling of competence.

Unless you've somehow been at this since the time the genre began and you weren't getting dunked on by people who have decades of experience on you, I fail to see how anyone enjoys this. 

[Zooropa_Fly]

Hey lens,

 

Naturally any game can be frustrating if you're getting beaten up quite a bit.

But since it is just a game, you can choose to either chuck your joystick out of the window.. or you can choose to take it on the chin, laugh about it, then hopefully learn from it.

 

The reality is there are lots of top class virtual pilots out there who you'll never get close to.. same goes for me.

I've done most of my time in ww1 crates, and when I got into ww2 fell way down the pecking order.

So I started doing mostly ground attack in 110's, or sometimes defending a friendly target hoping for a lone 2 seater / bomber to appear.

 

I've not flown for some time, but in ww2 I was mostly on WoL.

Some quick advice..

Ground pounding :-

• Before you take off for a ground attack mission - ask for a fighter escort. If the server is fairly busy you've a good chance of getting one.
• I like to exhaust all my bombs and bullets on the target - but if you linger like that you have to accept there's a chance you get sprung.
• So if you are determined to get home - one pass drop and off. Despite what you say about your experience with that you should get home most times if you're careful.
• Either approach at 3k and drop from a decent altitude so you are escaping at maximum speed hugging the ground (and facing back to friendly territory). or..
• Come in hugging the ground so you're not so easy to spot if there's bandits around.
•  Pick the right camouflage and exit low over terrain that best suits that camouflage.
• I normally go with 110's because they're tough and give you a chance of getting home when they're badly beaten up.

Target defence :-

• Pick the fastest fighter plane available.
• Be patient - I know the feeling of waiting and waiting.. but when a target eventually appears, use all that waiting to focus yourself.
• If there's 30 or less on the server there's a good chance you'll be waiting for nobody to show up - so maybe ground pound instead.
• If the server is full, chances are you'll get into some action fairly quickly.

 

You can get lots of advice, you can practice lots, but at the end of the day you have to be prepared to accept getting whipped a lot of the time.

If you can't, try SP and see if you can get into that.

 

The biggest change needs to come from within - loosen up a bit and don't get so frustrated.

Use defeat as motivation, and maybe record some track files to review what you could have done differently.

 

S!

ZF.

[Raptorattacker]

@Zooropa_Fly That's about as good an answer as a chap could give is that.

 

 

Rap

[Lens7]

9 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Hey lens,

 

Naturally any game can be frustrating if you're getting beaten up quite a bit.

But since it is just a game, you can choose to either chuck your joystick out of the window.. or you can choose to take it on the chin, laugh about it, then hopefully learn from it.

Trust me when I say I'm more than used to doing the latter elsewhere, instances where me and my entire flight got blasted by SAMs before we were even halfway to the target, laughed it off, and learned to expect pop up threats for the future.

As for the other bits, I've tried amply to use twin engine fighter-bombers where I can, but the issue with those is even once you bring in enough speed and altitude, either AAA will be guided by some Apollo himself or something or what not, and you will get hit in a way that will induce drag to nullify that speed (leading to getting jumped on the turn around) or will have you get just off target in a way that leaves the attack being worth a pittance in the grand scheme of things.

 

It's not that I don't expect to not get wolloped, I'm under no delusion of being some sort of ace. What I assume I'd have after this being my second most played title in my steam library is not me depending on flying *specifically* in off hours to have a chance to not feel like I'm merely flying as a point pinata.

 

As for: 

16 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

If the server is full, chances are you'll get into some action fairly quickly.

 The action tends to be tracers by my wing. Where was he? God knows, he certainly wasn't there while you were checking your 6 all of about 30 seconds ago. Seems I should be just flying the plane ass-backwards, more like.

[MDzmitry]

27 минут назад, Lens7 сказал:

The action tends to be tracers by my wing. Where was he? God knows, he certainly wasn't there while you were checking your 6 all of about 30 seconds ago. Seems I should be just flying the plane ass-backwards, more like.

I'll quote Adolph "Sailor" Malan here, or more precisely point 7 of his Ten Rules for Air Fighting:

"Never fly straight and level for more than 30 seconds in the combat area."

 

That's about flying straight, so checking your six should happen more like once every 10 seconds.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

Why work hard when you can work smart? It's not just about the quantity of hours you put in, it's also about the quality of those hours. If you're spending your time getting into 0-2 fights per hour you're not gonna learn as much as the guy getting into ~30 fights per hour in a faster paced setting like Berloga, or whatever else is available, maybe even something with icons? Yeah you'll die a lot, and yeah there's maybe some goofs using external views, but it can help to view your progress in a more nuanced way than just live/die. If you see yourself lasting longer in a fight, and making the other guys work harder to kill you, be happy with that progress for now, and keep grinding.

[JG27*PapaFly]

4 hours ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

Why work hard when you can work smart? It's not just about the quantity of hours you put in, it's also about the quality of those hours. If you're spending your time getting into 0-2 fights per hour you're not gonna learn as much as the guy getting into ~30 fights per hour in a faster paced setting like Berloga, or whatever else is available, maybe even something with icons? Yeah you'll die a lot, and yeah there's maybe some goofs using external views, but it can help to view your progress in a more nuanced way than just live/die. If you see yourself lasting longer in a fight, and making the other guys work harder to kill you, be happy with that progress for now, and keep grinding.

THIS!

I fly sims since 1993, and MP since 2004. By the time I started my MP career, I had 11 years of uninterrupted, serious flight sinking under my belt. I thought that should suffice for one of the full real servers. I joined and got wasted by the pros who flew 40+ hours per week. So I approached this like I'd approach competitive sports: I set goals and increased the training volume, to maximize the time I spent  fighting. That happened on fast paced servers. If you suck at dogfighting, why waste time on a full real server, where you get very few dogfight opportunities per hour. Training must be specific to your needs/deficits. Same goes for shooting: if your average hit rate against human-piloted planes is below 5 percent, you want that fast-paced environment.

 

Some skills you build through the years are there for life, others degrade really fast. Shooting belongs to the later category. That's why I and many other veterans actually warm up before a session on the full real servers. 

 

Once you've built skills to the point where you're able to bag one opponent for each time you go down, I'd consider joining a squad. If you're competitive, there's no way around it IMO. Don't try to become an ace before joining a squad though. You'll just have a lot of stuff to unlearn in the new environment to become an effective team player.

[Lens7]

4 hours ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

Why work hard when you can work smart? It's not just about the quantity of hours you put in, it's also about the quality of those hours. If you're spending your time getting into 0-2 fights per hour you're not gonna learn as much as the guy getting into ~30 fights per hour in a faster paced setting like Berloga, or whatever else is available, maybe even something with icons? Yeah you'll die a lot, and yeah there's maybe some goofs using external views, but it can help to view your progress in a more nuanced way than just live/die. If you see yourself lasting longer in a fight, and making the other guys work harder to kill you, be happy with that progress for now, and keep grinding.

Would you believe me if I said my decision to try the CAP role for once in mission servers was only *after* seeing I could rather reliably get a good kill or two with a bounce in Berloga every time I dropped in for a good while? Because that's what it was, otherwise, I'm on record already mentioning I had enough with it and was going purely ground attack before, much to the chagrin of some people who said I was throwing in the towel and missing out.

I thought I'd gotten somewhere, but it seems that's not the case. Least of all because you can actually see things in Berloga. Elsewhere the first time you'll see anyone is when the tracers fly. And if you're lucky you'll see them before you hear them. 

 

42 minutes ago, JG27*PapaFly said:

I fly sims since 1993, and MP since 2004. By the time I started my MP career, I had 11 years of uninterrupted, serious flight sinking under my belt. I thought that should suffice for one of the full real servers. I joined and got wasted by the pros who flew 40+ hours per week. So I approached this like I'd approach competitive sports: I set goals and increased the training volume, to maximize the time I spent  fighting. That happened on fast paced servers. If you suck at dogfighting, why waste time on a full real server

As mentioned above, I'm doing half decent if its something like berloga, not so much any 'mission server' because clearly it seems that dogfighting is *not* what this game is actually. It's either AirQuake or someone with more years in this genre bouncing people and nothing else than years I have used a computer. I'm not asking to be an ace. I've said this before. I'm asking to not feel like I should be joining some sort of S/M club just because I keep coming in to play multiplayer.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

Spottings a dark art. I don't know what the current guides to follow would be, but it takes going down a tedious rabbit hole of trying different settings to get the magic combo that works for you. Some people never find that magic combo though, or just don't have eyes suited to seeing tiny moving objects. I don't know the exact details, but I think there's also something in the game that makes planes not render at longer ranges if the server/your computer has a lot going on. So that might explain why you can spot on a simpler server like Berloga, but not on a more complex one. 

[J37_Spyboy]

@Lens7 This may help in addition to the sage advice you have received so far!"

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pursuit-Pilots-Guide-Online-Combat/dp/9197607703/ref=sr_1_5?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.0sQI75A6lA6BtXdqtBtZ7VRUc2g74alqfPBsxO3v7MAkWEjrggN3H6vUKeEzzKB_VePaclXcGPjGcLzu4derCOAP6F8yfJGh-XGjBQPyg7g.cj0g-gMKVqGYzxaFOrpglZpmQV-5ygjAZA2DWaSMWV4&dib_tag=se&qid=1750616918&refinements=p_27%3AJohan+Kylander&s=books&sr=1-5

 

Johan has written other titles dealing with aspects of Combat Flight Sims. Ground attack, Leadership, how to be an effective wingman, are all covered in dedicated volumes.

 

Marshal Zhukov said 'Train Hard, Fight Easy'

 

Persevere always remember it is meant to be fun.

 

Good luck

PS: Maybe join an online squad, that is always a good way to improve fun and skill levels exponentially.

 

Edited June 22 by J37_Spyboy

[Lens7]

54 minutes ago, J37_Spyboy said:

@Lens7 This may help in addition to the sage advice you have received so far!"

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pursuit-Pilots-Guide-Online-Combat/dp/9197607703/ref=sr_1_5?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.0sQI75A6lA6BtXdqtBtZ7VRUc2g74alqfPBsxO3v7MAkWEjrggN3H6vUKeEzzKB_VePaclXcGPjGcLzu4derCOAP6F8yfJGh-XGjBQPyg7g.cj0g-gMKVqGYzxaFOrpglZpmQV-5ygjAZA2DWaSMWV4&dib_tag=se&qid=1750616918&refinements=p_27%3AJohan+Kylander&s=books&sr=1-5

 

Johan has written other titles dealing with aspects of Combat Flight Sims. Ground attack, Leadership, how to be an effective wingman, are all covered in dedicated volumes.

 

Marshal Zhukov said 'Train Hard, Fight Easy'

 

Persevere always remember it is meant to be fun.

 

Good luck

PS: Maybe join an online squad, that is always a good way to improve fun and skill levels exponentially.

 

 Oh this book, I've got it alright. 

There's some good things in it, sure, but few seem to actually help in the thick of it, least of all because it seems whoever has the fortune of pouncing upon me has already read it on top of whatever thousands upon thousands of hours he has because he makes sure there's no room for the aggressive approach Johan asks of the player. 90% of the time for me the question is do you turn and certainly die or try and run and hope you can maybe eject over friendly lines because you're already forfeit. 

I remember taking his words to heart early after I finished it and tried tangling with some 109s and 190s that singly ambushed me while I was ground pounding in a 47. 

It is left as a very easy exercise to the reader to count how many times that actually worked compared to the 'cowardly' option I was taking before that.

Furthermore, to quote from that book, 

Quote

When you grow confident enough to go on the offensive you should attack only such enemy as are low, slow and non manoeuvring. These fellows are invariably found enroute to particularly active map areas. Kill them from above and behind when they're napping, with a single devastating high-speed attack

 

How often do you actually find such targets, because I have yet to have found more than one such case in my many hours on this sim? More often than not its someone who's acutely aware of the exact number of nose hairs on every pilot on the map and will execute a textbook turn, whip around, follow and shoot faster than you can zoom climb, if you can find them *at all*.

Edited June 22 by Lens7

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

A question for you @Lens7:  what piece of information have you learned from any of the above posts from others? List it below.  Not talking about your refutatation of anything.  Only interested to see if there wad any piece of information above where you reflected on it and learned anything?

[Lusekofte]

With all the good advices you got here and bear in mind one thing. 
People wrecking you constantly is probably very faithful to their plane and as we all know, this is a game , not reality. They learned all the glitches and advantages this simulation offers to exploit. 
In time you will too. This is like the same in all simulators. Not just in this. 
 

[[CPT]Crunch]

You need the fastest attacker you can accurately bomb with.  Pretty much means single engine fighter.

 

Three axis of motion will always get you on target without a flak hit, descending, moving forward, and in a slight curve with roll, add some slip and your definitely invulnerable.  Its game coding and anyone can beat it doing this.

 

Never climb in a flak environment off a target, not even a little, never reverse your roll off a target the shells following are about to explode there.  Even a computer has difficulty making a flat shot on a target extending the gap away in a slight course changing bank, it's the fastest possible separation, never go wings perfectly level your making it easy for the computer to calculate the hit.  This is also one of the hardest shots for a real marksman to make, it's a physics thing.  Easiest shot in the world is straight up or at a steep angle climbing target, both are slowing down fast, or straight path is easy for both computer and man.  

 

Alone, do one pass and out every time, don't carry ord that'll slow you down or you can't get off in one pass.  Don't carry any rack or rail that'll keep you slow post drop.

 

Never turn off target directly for home, be unpredictable.  Don't continue to hit the same target all mission long without help.  Don't keep using the same approach and exit, change up the attack profile.  Do your reconnaissance of targets for the next run while on target.  Learn and pay attention to where the guns are, they'll be there the next fifty times you play the map.  Exploit blockers on the AAA guns, cities are great for making a low lawn mower escape or approach.   Have an obvious Initial Point besides the target to avoid any navigation mistake.  Never plan a direct route going alone.

 

Attack targets of lower value, less defended, attack those furthest away from your enemies airfields, closest to yours.  Avoid the map area where most of your side is launching out of, biggest airfield numbers, because you know that's where the enemy is hunting unless you are looking for trouble.

 

Keep hitting targets with fighter bombers and the action always comes to you.

 

Learn to fly as a lawnmower with your prop, lowest man always sees first, max speed your fighter can do without blowing the engine at all times, no tight turning to keep the speed, no slow climbs.  If you do climb your not safe from someone doing the low level shark until your above 5000 feet.  Never cruise between 100 feet and 5000.  A slow climb is death, never at or below 250 mph.

 

Every time you cross a ridge dip in the valley and immediately check six, you'll see them following at very long range topping the ridge line, where a mirror is worth gold.

 

If your surviving 2 out of 3 sorties and hitting targets consistently you've just made the top 10%. 

 

Pay attention around the horizons because the map is loaded with guys doing the same, many on the opposite side. 

 

Edited June 23 by [CPT]Crunch

[OG_NickNack68]

Man there's gold in this forum post!

I've been flying since Microprose's Knight's of the Sky(on a cga monitor no less) and I still get whooped consistently in MP. 

 

I did notice yesterday on Flugpark that I did real well if I was patient in getting up above everyone else (Alt is life) and keeping my head on a swivel and not getting target fixated (a common problem for me). I noticed after a couple hours, which I normally don't have the time for, that I was on top of the kill list because I was practicing good situational awareness. It takes a long time in those kites to get to 8k feet, and after I while I got fatigued and lazy with checking my six and next things you know... Shot down in flames.

 

I think it was Zooropa that said above to loosen up and have some fun. Once I'm fatigued and frustrated it's a waste of what little time I have to spend on this wonderful hobby!

 

I often think about how lucky we are to be able to taste the thrill of early air combat without all the horrible conditions that go along with the real thing. Immerse yourself in that fear of making it back alive and maybe it'll give you more incentive to keep your six clear. 

See you in the skies! 

Nick

[R33GZ]

On 6/22/2025 at 8:38 PM, Lens7 said:

Because at this point it seems even communication with other people isn't helping. 

 

I seem to have made the mistake of coming back to this game and play on WoL and CB together, with SRS enabled where possible. It seems that the fundamental problem that plagued me before is still there. An absolute skill difference that makes it not even enjoyable to try and improve. 

Try to play defensive and fly patrols over objectives at a safe altitude? An hour passes and no one seems to have showed up while *every* other objective will get blasted, as well as yours the moment you decide to turn and help with the other one. 

Decide to ground pound? Better hope to every god in existence there wasn't someone in a 20 mile radius because otherwise even a 'one pass haul ass' will end with you having 2-3 planes pouncing on your 6 who are all piloted by Adolf Galland reincarnated. And if its not a player, its AAA that will shoot you right in the canopy. 

And somehow they *know* I'm the one to bounce because even when I'm with a group, I'll be the one shot down while the others more than manage to make it out fine. It's not even fun *trying* to improve when there is no opportunity to. It feels like being a lamb to the slaughter for more experienced players just getting kicks off of trying to inflate their feeling of competence.

Unless you've somehow been at this since the time the genre began and you weren't getting dunked on by people who have decades of experience on you, I fail to see how anyone enjoys this. 

I've been playing combat flightsims since the 80s and after 30 something years, I still suck, relatively speaking 😆

 

In multiplayer, Personally, I find dogfighting the hardest action to survive. Partly, my old setup with a hat switch adds micro seconds to my ability to follow a target through aerobatics and check six and partly because some of the people here have more 'current hours' than any WWII fighter pilot ever had.

 

I prefer to play the attack role more often than not and if surviving is the ultimate goal, versus destruction of target, then I believe it is best to take a fast single engine fighter. For example, if playing allied, take the Mustang, take only as much fuel as you need (400l should be plenty) plan a route to target that takes you way out of likely interception. Begin a long target run at approx 15k ft. Make sure youre hitting the target in the direction of your egress and run for home on the deck with the throttle firewalled. You should be able to outrun anything that is trying to chase, Me 262 perhaps being an exception.

 You can sustain those throttle settings for about 5min, which is a long time at 450mph.... and when I say on the deck, I mean you should be hoping tree lines. This will make you much harder to spot for anyone attempting to run you down

 

Flying and communicating with a coordinated group can make survivability much more achievable, but also more complicated, especially if you're the flight lead.

 

Good luck mate. I hope you get some satisfying flights in the future 😉

Edited June 23 by R33GZ

[Hoss]

I bought the very first interation of IL2 about two weeks.. no pun intended after it was released in 2001. Then Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad came out from the new team and I bought that too. I also had LockOn Modern Air Combat when it first came out... still have the discs from all of them. 

It's been one hell of an expensive endeavor since day one..... 

[69th_Panp]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

 

It's been one hell of an expensive endeavor since day one..... 

True  !!!  oh so true   lol

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

 

@Lens7

Question 1:  Not answered. Perhaps you know everything (that mindset can be the biggest limitation to any players progress or enjoyment with others in the community)

Question 2: Where do you feel you are on this learning curve .... we are all on it or some variation of it.  After 20+ years I am probably backsliding into "I know nothing" gulch. 

Don't spend a lot of money but like any other sport, don't spend any until you get solidly proficient and the equipment is empirically the thing holding you back (and not your own personal limitations - attitude or skills - some people just don't have the coordination, reflexes, eyesight, aiming (which is 50%+ what the game is about).   Spend money later if you want to be at the peak ; but I have known people who beat everyone who flew with no track IR/ VR and just a hatswitch and keyboards/mouse, so...

where are you at.... and look forward... there should be hope!  Find fun along the way and learn what you are good at. Few are good at being fighters/aces....which when you think about it held true in real life when you look at two weeks life expectancy as a fighter pilot.  As a few others mentioned, theres a lot else to do, from escorting bombers/recons to being a high altitude bomber or ground attacker to performing harrowing two seater missions as a reconnaissance or artillery spotter or similar.  Find your niche and build on it.  Don't take the player name Richthoften or Brown and expect to live up to those names.  

 

 

Edited June 25 by JGr2/J5_Baeumer

[Gambit21]

Flying alone in an air-quake room is a recipe for getting shot down a lot unless you're very experienced.

 

I won't repeat what's been said above, but add that you're better off with a group of friend flying Co Ops....but unfortunately we don't have Hyperlobby anymore to facilitate this.  I had good success "Lone Wolfing" it back in the day, but I flew smart. I stayed either very very high, waited...waited...then pounced from a high perch at 850 kph.

Or, I went in very very low. I personally had more success going high, and wouldn't hesitate to fly around for 45 before picking a target.

 

Really the primary thing that allowed me to achieve around a 13-1 kill ratio online was mind-set. I stopped caring about getting kills, and instead flew more like my actual life was on the line. This facilitated better decision making, and then once I didn't care, I got more kills! My kill ratio shot through the roof. It didn't bother me to take off, fly around for an hour, then land with no engagements if that's how it shook out. I found that just as satisfying. I rarely entered a fair fight, but if I did I had enough experience behind me to win much of the time.

What made me that much better was evaluating what went wrong each time I was shot down...there was always a mistake. I logged that mistake, and did my best not to repeat it. I got cocky and entered a fight I shouldn't have, I didn't check 6, I turned in a fight that I should have stayed fast in, I lost too much energy in the vertical and became a kite hanging there, I reversed with a guy following me in a circle...etc etc.

You'll get there.

 

Edit: I should add that I flew co ops 90% of the time. This is a an easier environment to be successful in because you have guys working with you usually. Being mission focused rather than “glory” or kill focused helps. Complete your task as assigned, take kills as they come.

 

Edited June 25 by Gambit21

[Lens7]

On 6/23/2025 at 1:39 AM, JGr2/J5_Baeumer said:

A question for you @Lens7:  what piece of information have you learned from any of the above posts from others? List it below.  Not talking about your refutatation of anything.  Only interested to see if there wad any piece of information above where you reflected on it and learned anything?

MDzmitry's words on keeping movement and repeatedly checking six, for one, I think I've managed to knock off at least one pursuer knowingly that way who was dealing with someone else but I got out before he noticed me there. Other than that, been rereading In Pursuit to see if I can glean something now that I missed prior. 
Though I must say I gained the most from [CPT]Crunch's post in its entirety after this one and is primarily why there was the delay to this reply, apologies for that, I'd been putting it to work with great effect in the Jug, though not quite perfectly. I can probably chalk that up to inexperience, spotting them maybe just too late, or not bringing enough friends. 

That said I might try bringing a 150 octane Mustang next time for a ground pound attempt (though I feel that may be a bit of a disservice to what's meant to be a high speed fighter), if only because the extra speed might allow me to put in a bit more distance before the 109 closes in with a 108 burst. 

1 hour ago, JGr2/J5_Baeumer said:

 

@Lens7

Question 1:  Not answered. Perhaps you know everything (that mindset can be the biggest limitation to any players progress or enjoyment with others in the community)

Question 2: Where do you feel you are on this learning curve .... we are all on it or some variation of it.  After 20+ years I am probably backsliding into "I know nothing" gulch. 

Don't spend a lot of money but like any other sport, don't spend any until you get solidly proficient and the equipment is empirically the thing holding you back (and not your own personal limitations - attitude or skills - some people just don't have the coordination, reflexes, eyesight, aiming (which is 50%+ what the game is about).   Spend money later if you want to be at the peak ; but I have known people who beat everyone who flew with no track IR/ VR and just a hatswitch and keyboards/mouse, so...

where are you at.... and look forward... there should be hope!  Find fun along the way and learn what you are good at. Few are good at being fighters/aces....which when you think about it held true in real life when you look at two weeks life expectancy as a fighter pilot.  As a few others mentioned, theres a lot else to do, from escorting bombers/recons to being a high altitude bomber or ground attacker to performing harrowing two seater missions as a reconnaissance or artillery spotter or similar.  Find your niche and build on it.  Don't take the player name Richthoften or Brown and expect to live up to those names.  

 

 

On this curve? Probably the first dip, but I don't know if I ever had that initial climb in the first place. As far as I'm aware it's a matter of playing some stealth game as a ground pounder, hitting when/where no one else is bothering to check because if anyone sees me I'm a sitting duck with little to do but flapping about and making it a bit more interesting, but not quite annoying for a would be assailant. As for money, I haven't really spent a whole lot, barring the laptop used for other things too, and maybe a flight stick.

 

 

[MDzmitry]

Nice to see that this topic hasn't been made in vain and actually bears fruit for you @Lens7

[Razorback]

Dont get bummed out, get determined...     Im  just now returning to  flying after a looooong hiatus..    I will wing with you , and share your fate..  and I will help you with anything I can help you with as far as flying the plane goes...   There are several reasons you are having this experience I would imagine...   The best remedy for this situation is a buddy  to fly with, and to help eachother improve..   Im just now getting my Pimax all setup, and will be flying in the CB servers by this evening , if all goes well...  when I do...   look for Razorback.   I'm rusty as hell right now...   but I haven't forgotten how to fly !  I prefer to fly  JABO in an Anton over about everything else..     Besides, when they  come down to get us, and they will,    Its always fun to  T&B  while flying an Anton.., or  it  used to be.      I have yet to fly the New IL2's Anton's       I haven't flown online combat since  Warclouds server and IL2 46. 

 

 I know im in for a BUTT kicking supreme, and I look forward to it.   I enjoy  working my way back up .       I have been flying the New IL2's  solo missions, and im enjoying  wonderful  flight models, and graphics..?   Floored me..   I built this Machine  so I could  fly in VR, and  I never DREAMED of an IL2 World like this one...   The only thing that sucks  compared to IL2/46?? I'm not 30  anymore !

 

  As for when I started  flying online?  LOL    Warbirds II & III  long time monthly subscriber..  IL2 came out, and it was   ADIOS  Warbirds..  I've been with IL2 series  ever since .. I flew a lil Cliffs of Dover, once they fixed it up, but my career  got in the way of my free  time back then..