Is it normal for the planes to fly like this?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

I've been getting more into the FC content lately and trying different planes to see which ones I like the best. 

That said, I've noticed all the planes seem to need to constantly have the nose pushed down to stay level.  Cutting back on the throttle seems to help this but, it doesn't seem right to pull back to 30% or less to make the plane(s) slow enough to fly level with the stick centered.  

If I leave the throttle up most of the planes I've tried just pitch up until they stall.  What am I missing?

[czech693]

Yes, and the worst one was the Fokker Dr.I.  In your control settings you can now adjust the pitch on the controls for each aircraft to compensate.  It's a bandaid fix because it just deflects the control, it doesn't fix the problem.  I went through them one by one and got the aircraft up to speed on autolevel, then turn off autolevel to see what the pitch does.  Then I adjust the pitch setting for that particular aircraft.  Takes a while to do all of them.  If you want I can post a download with my settings to save you some time.

[ST_Catchov]

Well, it is debatable I suppose.

[AtomicP]

AFAIK, trim tabs were not much of a thing in WW1 aircraft so pitching up with increasing speed is something you have to deal with as a basic consequence of aerodynamics, i.e. more speed = more lift.

 

Have a browse of the following for more.

 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

1 hour ago, AtomicP said:

AFAIK, trim tabs were not much of a thing in WW1 aircraft so pitching up with increasing speed is something you have to deal with as a basic consequence of aerodynamics, i.e. more speed = more lift.

 

Have a browse of the following for more.

 

While in flight trim was not a common option for most aircraft, I'd imagine the mechanics adjusted the aircraft trim to either the pilot's individual preference,  and/or somewhat level flight.

Would also believe that each aircraft produced had slight differences in control surface tuning.  Modern production techniques were still evolving at the time.

[Trooper117]

If I remember correctly, most aeroplanes of that time had to be hands on flying from take off to landing... trimming hands off straight and level wasn't a thing then, unlike aircraft today.

[czech693]

Even without trim I doubt the pilots of that time would have put up with a radical pitch requiring constant stick pressure.  Slight relaxation of your control input in a tight turn would have resulted in a stall/spin.  The mechanic would just adjust the elevator cables to get a setting that didn't require stick force.  Lengthen the top cable and shorten the bottom cable to get some downward pitch.  That's why pilots were assign to test flight an aircraft after the mechanics had worked on it.  Wouldn't necessarily be perfect and would still require hands on flying, but you wouldn't be fighting the controls.  But I think that's a moot point as the pilots would have complained to the factory to get the aircraft in a state of somewhat neutral trim before you send it to us.  Look at the videos of the Dr.I doing low fly-bys.  His elevator is near level and not pitched down.

[AndyJWest]

1 hour ago, czech693 said:

Even without trim I doubt the pilots of that time would have put up with a radical pitch requiring constant stick pressure.  Slight relaxation of your control input in a tight turn would have resulted in a stall/spin.  The mechanic would just adjust the elevator cables to get a setting that didn't require stick force.  Lengthen the top cable and shorten the bottom cable to get some downward pitch.  That's why pilots were assign to test flight an aircraft after the mechanics had worked on it.  Wouldn't necessarily be perfect and would still require hands on flying, but you wouldn't be fighting the controls.  But I think that's a moot point as the pilots would have complained to the factory to get the aircraft in a state of somewhat neutral trim before you send it to us.  Look at the videos of the Dr.I doing low fly-bys.  His elevator is near level and not pitched down.

 Changing the elevator cable lengths won't do anything except move the stick forward or back. The hands-off elevator position in flight is going to be determined by aerodynamic forces.

 

There is definitely something off with the flight modelling though, since the extreme elevator deflections needed for level flight in FC aren't there in the real aircraft.

[Varibraun]

5 hours ago, czech693 said:

Even without trim I doubt the pilots of that time would have put up with a radical pitch requiring constant stick pressure. 

 

There was a long discussion of this from "back in the day" with input from @Chill31 who actually flies one.  If I recall correctly, forward pressure is required, but it may be exaggerated on a desktop joystick setup. 

 

On 3/20/2025 at 2:26 PM, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

I've noticed all the planes seem to need to constantly have the nose pushed down to stay level. 

 

A couple of relevant links to @Chill31's thoughts in threads below:

 

 

[AtomicP]

21 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

If I remember correctly, most aeroplanes of that time had to be hands on flying from take off to landing... trimming hands off straight and level wasn't a thing then, unlike aircraft today.

Ya, an on that note, the fly-by-wire systems were designed in part to ease pilot workload so the flying part has become relatively trivial and pilots can focus on the plethora of other stuff vying for their attention.

 

I occasionally play DCS and have the F-5 and F/A-18 as 'proper' modules. The former is easy enough to fly but needs constant trimming. The Hornet is a breeze and the only time you need to trim is when you lose a store from one side or the other and need to level out. I'm sure that's not even a thing in more modern aircraft.

[LufberyJAA]

Yes, it was a thing with the actual WWI aircraft. The Nieuport 28 is a great example with both contemporary pilot reports and pilots like Frank Talkan flying surplus N 28s into the 1960s mentioning the constant forward pressure needed on the stick for level flight. The game feels about right to me, but I'm using a spring loaded joystick and I have never flown a real Nieuport 28. 🙂

 

The Dr.1 mentioned above is another great example.

 

Some planes in real life as well as the game had adjustable horizontal stabilizers to provide a measure of trim. The Snipe definitely has it in the game, and there is a great video of Kermit Weeks flying a snipe where he points out the trim control. I the the Breguet does too, and I think the SE5a and Sopwith Triplane do too. There may be others.

 

For what it's worth, the Sopwith Triplane is a sheer joy to fly! It seems to be trimmed nicely by default, is light, balanced, and nimble. 

 

Which brings me to another quirk of a lot of these first warplanes -- many did not have well harmonized controls. I've read of the Camel that its elevators were very sensitive and the ailerons were sluggish in comparison -- with a lot of rudder needed to initiate turns and rolls. The DH-4 is also called out for similar issues 

 

In my opinion, this game captures a lot of those features/quirks pretty well.

[Ace_Pilto]

On 3/21/2025 at 4:56 AM, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

What am I missing?

Nothing. Aircraft in those days had no trim controls. You have intuitively discovered that engine settings allow for stable flight. Congratulations, you made it further than many pilots of the day ever did. Your aircraft would have been rigged to fly at a certain pre-configured speed by the ground crew, usually the speed that maximised range/endurance. Configurable rigging is not part of the game unfortunately so we're stuck with whatever arbitrary settings are simulated.

Edited April 2 by Ace_Pilto

[artao]

Remember too that precession can help along with throttle to fly hands-off level. A bit of right rudder will help pitch the nose down, ESPECIALLY on rotary engine planes. Then throttle to suit. Or vice versa, either works.

The action happens 90 degrees from where you apply force, in the direction of spin. So for a prop/engine spinng CW from pilot's perspective, pitch up also causes yaw right, yaw right causes pitch down, pitch down causes yaw left, and yaw left causes pitch up. Confusing and frustrating and irritating at first, but it can really help, especially in the WW1 kites in my experience. And then roll of course, the plane wants to roll in the opposite direction the prop/engine is spinning, so you need to counter that just a bit, and you can quickly adjust it with throttle or blip switch in some planes.

Incidentally, this works with frisbees as well

Edited April 22 by artao