Naval units and attack area MCUs

[Stonehouse]

After observing in game behaviour and rereading the mission editor manual I believe the attack area MCU has two bugs currently.

 

The issues are to do with handling of low priority in respect to close (in range and direct line of sight) enemy units and how the tick boxes (attack ground, attack ground units and attack air units) are currently affecting the MCU and linked unit's behaviour.

 

I've mainly observed the issue when the MCU is linked to a naval unit. I think it probably also impacts air and ground units but is simply less noticeable as the Attack Area MCU is likely not often used just to attack a ground area only for either air or ground units (except perhaps artillery). IE if an aircraft is linked to an attack area MCU then likely the attack air or attack ground units check boxes are ticked on the MCU and so the mishandling of low priority won't be noticed. Likewise for a ground unit it is likely that the attack ground units check box is ticked and so the issue with low priority won't be noticed.

 

From the manual:

• The attack area MCU tick boxes are described as follows:
  • Attack Targets
    The type of targets to attack
    Attack Air Targets–Attack enemy planes.
    Attack Ground–Attack the general area defined by the attack command.
    Attack Ground Targets–Attack objects in area defined by the attack command
• MCU priority impacts are described as follows:
  • Priority
    The priority of the attack.
    Low–The attacking objects can also attack nearby enemies.
    Medium–The attacking objects can maneuver to defend themselves from attacks.
    High–The attacking objects do nothing except attack the target.

 

The current in game behaviour does not match the above descriptions. 

• For example: 
  • The initial situation
    • I have the attack area MCU placed about 8km inland from a Gleaves DD placed close inshore. The MCU has a low priority and a 200m radius area defined and a 10 min timer and is linked to the Gleaves. Within the area are a few enemy vehicles. The Gleaves has a low priority move point some distance down the coast. There is a small group of enemy vehicles placed on the shoreline, initially out of LOS of the Gleaves but well within range. There is a small armed enemy vessel a short distance ahead of the Gleaves. There is an enemy aircraft circling within 2000m of the Gleaves overhead.
  • If only the attack ground tick box on the MCU is checked then the in-game behaviour is:
    • The Gleaves will fire at the MCU defined area 8km away and ignores all other targets. This is the case even when the enemy units are at point blank range and firing and hitting the Gleaves.
      • The issue here is that the waypoint and the MCU linked to the Gleaves are low priority and therefore according to the manual each weapon on the Gleaves should prioritise the close enemy before firing at the MCU defined area if the weapon is in range and LOS and able to bear on the close target. If the weapon cannot fire at a close enemy for some reason but can fire at the MCU defined area then it should do so. EG main gun cannot aim at close vehicle due to rotation limits but can aim at the MCU area.
  • If the attack ground tick box and the attack ground units tick box are ticked then the in-game behaviour is:
    • The Gleaves will fire at close enemy ground and naval units if they are in range and direct line of sight and the weapon is able to bear on the target. It does this in preference to firing at the MCU defined area. Once the close enemy units are destroyed or the weapon in question cannot be brought to bear on a close enemy unit but can fire at the MCU area it does so. The Gleaves ignores the close enemy aircraft.
      • The issues here are:
        • once again that the waypoint and MCU are low priority. Therefore, all close enemies should be engaged in preference to the MCU defined area and ground units within it. Instead, the close enemy ground units are engaged until destroyed and then the MCU area. The close enemy aircraft are not attacked.
        • Ticking the attack ground units tick box should not make any difference to how close enemies are handled. According to the manual it should just mean that when the Gleaves fires at the MCU defined area that the ground units in the area are targeted presumably first and then once destroyed the Gleaves continues to fire at the area until the MCU attack time expires. Instead, this tick box impacts what close enemies are engaged but still leaves close enemy aircraft unengaged. 
  • If the attack ground tick box and the attack air units are ticked then the in-game behaviour is:
    • The Gleaves will first fire at the close enemy aircraft and ignore close ground and naval units. Once the aircraft is destroyed the Gleaves will fire at the MCU defined area. Ground/naval enemies are ignored even when the enemy unit is at point blank range and firing and hitting the Gleaves.
      • The issues here are:
        • once more the waypoint and MCU priority are low. The Gleaves should attack close enemies that can be attacked in preference to the MCU defined area. Only when these are destroyed or out of range or LOS should the MCU defined area be fired at.
        • Ticking the attack air units tick box should not make any difference to how close enemies are handled. It should just mean that air units in the MCU defined area are targeted presumably first and then once destroyed or the aircraft are not viable targets then the Gleaves continues to fire at the area until the MCU attack time expires. Instead, this tick box impacts what close enemies are engaged but still leaves close enemy ground and naval units unengaged. 
  • If all three tick boxes are ticked on the MCU then the in-game behaviour is:
    • The Gleaves will fire at close enemies in preference to the MCU defined area. It fires each weapon according to the bot defined targeting priority (eg Gleaves main gun prioritises air targets over ground/naval targets). If a weapon cannot fire at a close enemy for some reason and can fire at the MCU defined area it does so.
      • The issue here is that only by ticking all three MCU boxes does the Gleaves act as it should for low priority as described in the manual. If the Gleaves move waypoint is low priority and the MCU is also low priority then according to the manual the Gleaves should defend itself against close enemies before carrying out the MCU instructions
      • The tick boxes are acting like a filter for types of close enemies instead of a filter for type of targets within the MCU defined area.

 

Attached are tracks for each of the situations described above as well as the missions that generated the tracks. Note that in these missions the player starts in an A20 a long way from the action. Before unpausing the mission do a shift F5 to get the camera onto the Gleaves and then you can zoom out or use F11 as needed to observe what happens. No mods were being used during these missions.

 

I know some people have trouble with 7zip file attachments so LukeFF/devs please let me know if that is the case and I will set up a zip outside the forum to download. My first attempt to zip up the tracks to a zip file created a file larger than I could upload here, hence the 7zip which has better compression.

 

Note that the tests highlight an unassociated issue, naval main guns currently prioritise land units over naval units due to the reuse of land unit AI definitions. It should be that naval targets are fired on prior to land units as in the majority of cases an enemy naval unit is more of a threat to a ship than a land unit. This is graphically shown in the second video where the Gleaves main guns will continue to fire at the MCU area rather than the small enemy ship even though the AAA weapons on the Gleaves are already firing at it. Once the small group of close enemy trucks get into line of sight the main guns fire at them, destroying them and then fire at the enemy ship. If the ship had been more dangerous the Gleaves would have been sunk or badly damaged before it bothered to fire at the enemy ship.

 

Videos of each situation as well:

Only attack ground tickbox checked 

 

Attack ground and attack ground units checkbox ticked.

 

Attack ground and attack air units ticked

 

 

All MCU checkboxes (attack ground, attack ground units and attack air units) ticked

 

 

 

Tracks.7zip test missions.zip

Edited January 17 by Stonehouse

[Stonehouse]

@LukeFF I wasn't sure if this belonged under the Autopilot and AI thread or not - to me it didn't seem to fit but if you prefer it there, please move the post above.

[KFX1]

I appreciate your detailed trouble shooting steps and included videos.  Have you discovered any solutions since you've posted?  Just spitballing here, but can you associate the attack prioritization to the waypoints themselves, instead of a global unit setting?

[KFX1]

Ok, I solved your issue:

 

I enlarged the Primary Area Attack to 1500m, then set to Air Attack and Ground Targets to cover Enemy Boat 1, Enemy Air 1 and Enemy Ground Group1.  Success!!

 

Your Ground Group 2 was out of range.  I create an additional Ground Group and moved them closer (about half the distance as the previous).

Set Area Attack to Ground Targets and reduced the area. 

All attack areas have their Find Object to the Allied Ship.

Both waypoints=Find Target -> Attack Area (for Ground Groups 2 and 3).

Success!!

[Stonehouse]

Thanks for looking at it but based on my understanding of your post I don't think you have addressed the issue. Maybe I am missing something but:

 

8 hours ago, KFX1 said:

Your Ground Group 2 was out of range.  I create an additional Ground Group and moved them closer (about half the distance as the previous).

The ground attack range for a stock Gleaves destroyer is 15km. Neither group of ground vehicles in my examples was outside that range.

 

8 hours ago, KFX1 said:

then set to Air Attack and Ground Targets to cover Enemy Boat 1, Enemy Air 1 and Enemy Ground Group1.  Success!!

This is the point. You should not have to do this. With a low priority on the MCU and the waypoint the ship should defend itself against close range threats without needing to tick the attack air and ground units on the MCU. The tick boxes on the MCU should only reference targets within the area defined by the MCU. I should also not have to specifically order the ship to attack a close-range group if the priorities are low. Based on the manual the ship should defend itself and fire on air or ground/naval units in direct LOS and within range with a low priority waypoint. Part of the problem may well lie with the fact that naval gun turrets are using the tank gunner AI with a targeting distance of 1000m.  Regardless the MCU targeting boxes should only impact targeting within the MCU defined area. Currently for ships this is not the case.

Edited May 25 by Stonehouse

[KFX1]

I agree with you, I even placed the Target Area for the deep land group at 500meters to see if that would help.  Coming from IL-2 1946, the ai unit would attack everything within range without having to manually acknowledge a target.  But I suppose there must be some limitations with their expanded wayoint options, timers etc.