Support DLSS3 and DLSS4

[YoYo]

In fact, it occurred to me now after the information about DLSS4 coming in January. Will the new IL-2 finally support DLSS, DLAA and other modes? Will DLSS4 (+ Frame Generations for RTX 40xx - 3v. and 50xx 4v.) be implemented for Korea title and will DLSS also work in VR?

[Aapje]

With the new engine this should be technically possible, since they are using DirectX 12, but actually implementing it takes extra time. It's probably not their priority for the first release.

 

Most people seem to have rather negative experiences when using DLSS in VR, also in flight sims. The performance gain is often disappointing and they get a lot of blurriness.

 

I personally think that native OpenXR is way more important for VR users.

[Aapje]

And frame gen introduces input lag, which is bad for games where you either move quickly or look around a lot. I'd rather see them implement Reflex, which would reduce the input lag.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Several VR users report ghosting, input lag etc. in DCS when using any FSR/DLSS/XeSS. VR is just such a heavy hitter on performance in flight sims where the CPU/GPU are hammered more already. 

[86Cheese]

DLSS is really bad in VR honestly. Dcs and MSFS both have it and it is unusable. Into the Radius used to have it as well and they actually removed it. We're much better off having a game that is optimized well, which i trust 1C to do more than any other Sim Dev at the moment. DLSS feels like looking through Vaseline smeared on the lenses, everything has trails and ghosting. Considering this is visible in flat screen games with Frame Gen, I can only imagine it would just make it worse.

 

These tools also just aren't really built to handle the high speeds we see in combat sims, even regular motion smoothing/frame interpolation tech in vr just can't really handle this well and has been a problem for years, despite working fine enough in other VR games.

[YoYo]

Let's not focus only on VR. In VR, that's right, I don't use it in DCS, there is an increase in FPS but it doesn't look good for me in VR, but DLSS4 is supposed to bring - practically no blurring and better smoothing, so we'll see how it goes. A lot of people in DCS or MSFS use DLSS, so the question is whether it will also be in IL-2. However, it is always the user who should decide whether they prefer MSAA, TAA, DLAA or DLSS.

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/news/dlss4-multi-frame-generation-ai-innovations/

 

From 4:45, look at 5:13 too:

 

 

"but I can't look at this guy in the picture" 😜

Edited January 8 by YoYo

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Hi. DLSS is getting better and better. Game must support newer releases to benefit, most games do support deprecated versions like 2.0.

Rrealising game without this tech is bad decision. Look at RTX 5000 series especially affordable ones - they,  not got much raw power (raster) but actually double or triple AI TOPS (DLSS)

8 hours ago, Aapje said:

Most people seem to have rather negative experiences when using DLSS in VR, also in flight sims. The performance gain is often disappointing and they get a lot of blurriness.

I disagree, DLSS on some game engine do look sharp and performance uplift is huge on most games. Latency is reduced.

 

 

Edited January 8 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[86Cheese]

No one is saying DLSS doesn't do what it's supposed to. It is great, on flat screen games, that aren't flight sims. 

 

Also deprecated versions aren't really a problem, you can just swap the DLSS.dll to get the newest version. That doesn't remove inherent flaws in the tech though.

 

Check out this video (obligatory sorry about Linus). There is still pretty obvious ghosting and blurring in DLSS 4. It definitely is an improvement, but this literally npcs walking and camera movement.

 

 

This will be more pronounced when you see planes cross your view at trans-sonic speeds. Or any time you see tracers, or explosions, or missiles firing, or smoke trails. Or try to read gauges at a quick glance. 

 

I get that some people aren't bothered by this, but DLSS and upscaling is frequently used as an excuse to avoid doing the legwork and make necessary performance improvements. And to some folks, like myself, this sort of visual artifacting is gamebreaking, causes headaches and nausea, makes existing visiton problems worse. This is both in and out of VR. 

 

My point is that upscaler should not, and do not need to be, considered a "necessary evil." Especially when they do actually make the experience significantly worse for some players.

 

I'm all for including it, my concern is using it as a crutch 

[Aapje]

4 hours ago, YoYo said:

but DLSS4 is supposed to bring - practically no blurring and better smoothing, so we'll see how it goes.

 

Nvidia does not do honest advertising, so I'll believe it when an impartial third party says so, not before.

 

[YoYo]

47 minutes ago, Aapje said:

 

Nvidia does not do honest advertising, so I'll believe it when an impartial third party says so, not before.

 

I know it very well 😅, however we will see soon. This options will be available for all RTX cards.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

11 hours ago, 86Cheese said:

Also deprecated versions aren't really a problem

If this is a multiplayer game , anti cheat or files check do not allow to play.

[YoYo]

Dont forget about new function DLSS Overwrite in NVIDIA App, even if the game uses the old DLSS version you can upgrade it by overwrite function to DLSS4 with FG too: 

 

 

However the game needs support of DLSS! So not IL-2 till now … what about Korea title?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

We asked about DLSS support in many places, devs read it for sure, but not answered yet. Maybe in upcoming DD about new futures they do.

Edited January 9 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[YoYo]

4 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

We asked about DLSS support in many places, devs read it for sure, but not answered yet. Maybe in upcoming DD about new futures they do.

 

+1.

[blitze]

Yeah - I would prefer a cross platform tech like FSR4.  Seems to be quite a good alternative as well to DLSS4 and supported over a larger collection of cards Nvidia and AMD unlike the latest and gratest of Nvidia which is usually restricted to the most recent hardware release.

[Aapje]

5 hours ago, blitze said:

Yeah - I would prefer a cross platform tech like FSR4.

 

So far they've only said that it would work on the new generation.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

While looking at those DLSS videos the frametime was like 50ms. How come is that better than my current  4-7ms on a native resolution...hmmm. While these upscalers and whatnot have their use it also lets game devs get lazy in optimization etc. Why bother when you can use DLSS/FSR/XeSS ?!  People are so raving about the 5070 being the new 4090..with AI gimmicks yes(per Jensen himself), but in raw rasterization it will get thrashed by it. As in one of videos by nVidia  the 5090 could do 29fps in Cyberpunk 2077 in 4K with max graphics and with all the DLSS/AI shenanigans over 200fps except are those real fps or just AI generated fakes? 1 frame + 3 AI generated. I am very interested in how the RTX 5070 vs 9070XT will play out and then decide which upgrade route to take. I do not care about RT at all or upscaling etc. as I always play at native resolution in fullscreen. Rasterization is the key for me as an avid DCS player. Interesting times though.

[YoYo]

5 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

While looking at those DLSS videos the frametime was like 50ms. How come is that better than my current  4-7ms on a native resolution...hmmm. While these upscalers and whatnot have their use it also lets game devs get lazy in optimization etc. Why bother when you can use DLSS/FSR/XeSS ?!  People are so raving about the 5070 being the new 4090..with AI gimmicks yes(per Jensen himself), but in raw rasterization it will get thrashed by it. As in one of videos by nVidia  the 5090 could do 29fps in Cyberpunk 2077 in 4K with max graphics and with all the DLSS/AI shenanigans over 200fps except are those real fps or just AI generated fakes? 1 frame + 3 AI generated. I am very interested in how the RTX 5070 vs 9070XT will play out and then decide which upgrade route to take. I do not care about RT at all or upscaling etc. as I always play at native resolution in fullscreen. Rasterization is the key for me as an avid DCS player. Interesting times though.

Korea will have greater requirements than the old IL-2, I'm sure of that. What you have in IL-2 may turn out to be 27 ms, not 7 ;), remember about it.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

@YoYo Who says I am ever gonna fly Korea? Have not flown this franchise in ages and propably never will again. At the moment I get excellent performance in sim I play currently. So no, I do not need gimmicks to boost my fps. Every and each one of them cause higher frametimes, tested it. 

[blitze]

On 1/11/2025 at 2:25 AM, Aapje said:

 

So far they've only said that it would work on the new generation.

My bad, didn't get the memo - seems they are continuing development of FSR 3 along side of FSR 4 but mah computational woes limiting FSR 4 to RDNA Gen 4 Cards.  hmmmmm

Be interesting to see raw performance of both teams cards.  Not buying Nvidia AI tweaks to make a 5070 trounce a 4090.

[Aapje]

I expect that the top AMD card will be a bit below a 4080. I get the feeling that they are going to overprice it, at first, though. But perhaps they learned their lesson.

[Angry_Russian]

DLSS is now amazing in VR thanks to DLSS 4 new upscaling model. I've tried swapping the dll in DCS today and the result is mindblowing... So yeah, we definitely do need DLSS now in IL-2.

[FuriousMeow]

Please no DLSS, it has obvious ghosting, artifacting and repeating visuals in FPS games with short draw distances and if built around upscaling then native suffers. It is not a good feature and especially not for air combat games/sims.

 

And thats not even touching the added latency. Native is best.

Edited January 31 by FuriousMeow

[BladeMeister]

44 minutes ago, FuriousMeow said:

Please no DLSS, it has obvious ghosting, artifacting and repeating visuals in FPS games with short draw distances and if built around upscaling then native suffers. It is not a good feature and especially not for air combat games/sims.

 

And thats not even touching the added latency. Native is best.

This. I tried it in DCS and have come to the same conclusion. Native is best.

 

S!Blade<><

[YoYo]

4 hours ago, FuriousMeow said:

Please no DLSS, it has obvious ghosting, artifacting and repeating visuals in FPS games with short draw distances and if built around upscaling then native suffers. It is not a good feature and especially not for air combat games/sims.

 

And thats not even touching the added latency. Native is best.

 

What are you talking about? Have you tested DLSS 4? If not, why are you writing about ghosting in the first place for DLSS 4 + Reflex 2? Secondly, no game has ONLY DLSS as its native display level. It is ALWAYS one of the options. You don't want it, you don't use it, it's that simple.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

5 hours ago, FuriousMeow said:

Please no DLSS, [...] It is not a good feature and [...] Native is best.

No-one in his right mind will argue that DLSS is better in visual quality than native. Or that DLSS comes without artifacts.

 

But it'd in any case be implemented as a choice, meaning that if you don't like it, you don't have to use it. Not everyone feels the same about how annoying certain artifacts or ghosting are, or how important the latency penalty is. If you play, for example, a bomber pilot in singleplayer on a 2000-series GPU, there likely won't be much artifacting since there's not much special going on in the scene and latency won't be a problem at all, while the extra visual quality your PC will able to handle is a huge improvement. On the other hand, if you're a fighter pilot flying low-level in a multiplayer environment on an RTX 5090, then yes, DLSS is probably a very bad choice.

 

There's a lot of nuance between these two extremes, but there are certainly cases where DLSS *is* useful and *is* a "good feature." Both of which are very subjective opinions, I might add. If DLSS doesn't suit your personal playing style, then that's fine, but the fact that you personally don't like it doesn't make it useless in general.

[[CPT]Crunch]

I've had tremendous success with it in DCS, it's never looked as good or ran as smooth, for me it was like trying VR for the first time all over again.  The clarity at distances is now remarkable, never could see all those towers and construction cranes at any sort of distance before, and no jaggies at all.  If Korea looks that good I may pitch a tent there.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

What's needed is foveated rendering, not DLSS/FSR.

[FuriousMeow]

On 1/31/2025 at 4:15 PM, YoYo said:

 

What are you talking about? Have you tested DLSS 4? If not, why are you writing about ghosting in the first place for DLSS 4 + Reflex 2? Secondly, no game has ONLY DLSS as its native display level. It is ALWAYS one of the options. You don't want it, you don't use it, it's that simple.

 

That's false, if you disable upscaling and run native in UE5 it looks terrible. You can even Google that, example STALKER2.

Yes, I've played DLSS4. Its better than 3 but still artifacts and ghosting even DLAA. And that's in shooters, it's going to be worse in air combat sims.

 

DCS needs all the performance help it can get. BoS doesn't for graphics. The only performance impact is the AI unit physics calculations in high density environments. DLSS won't do squat for that.

 

There's plenty of YT videos showcasing why upscale sucks vs native. Upscaling is a crutch for developers to not optimize.

 

 

 

On 1/31/2025 at 4:51 PM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

No-one in his right mind will argue that DLSS is better in visual quality than native. Or that DLSS comes without artifacts.

 

But it'd in any case be implemented as a choice, meaning that if you don't like it, you don't have to use it. Not everyone feels the same about how annoying certain artifacts or ghosting are, or how important the latency penalty is. If you play, for example, a bomber pilot in singleplayer on a 2000-series GPU, there likely won't be much artifacting since there's not much special going on in the scene and latency won't be a problem at all, while the extra visual quality your PC will able to handle is a huge improvement. On the other hand, if you're a fighter pilot flying low-level in a multiplayer environment on an RTX 5090, then yes, DLSS is probably a very bad choice.

 

There's a lot of nuance between these two extremes, but there are certainly cases where DLSS *is* useful and *is* a "good feature." Both of which are very subjective opinions, I might add. If DLSS doesn't suit your personal playing style, then that's fine, but the fact that you personally don't like it doesn't make it useless in general.

 

I order to get the best implementation of DLSS, native suffers. That's why.

 

Also I was using a 1080ti until last November at 3440x1440 everything max except FXAA instead of MSAA getting consistent framerates over 100. In the 80s flying over the Prokhorvka map. I really doubt the new graphics are going to be so much more demanding that DLSS is going to be needed.

Edited February 6 by FuriousMeow

[YoYo]

1 hour ago, FuriousMeow said:

That's false, if you disable upscaling and run native in UE5 it looks terrible. You can even Google that, example STALKER2.

Yes, I've played DLSS4. Its better than 3 but still artifacts and ghosting even DLAA. And that's in shooters, it's going to be worse in air combat sims.

 

DCS needs all the performance help it can get. BoS doesn't for graphics. The only performance impact is the AI unit physics calculations in high density environments. DLSS won't do squat for that.

 

But what is false? That DLSS 4 has less ghosting than DLSS3? Have you tested it? If you disagree, well, too bad you can't see the difference. Also I'm guessing you haven't tested the Reflex 2 because you'd be lucky (do you have 50xx GPU?).

 

There is no indication here that DLSS 4 or any other version is a Holy grail devoid of all irregularities and artifacts. DLSS 4 also has its drawbacks, but it is currently the best option of all upscaling methods and we don't know what the future holds. The DLSS path was second, and each version of 3 was better than the previous one usually. You'll have the same here. DLSS 4 will also develop and it's very possible that in a year it will be better by an additional 50% than today's version. We're talking about the future here, not standing still in the same place. If someone wants to use native resolution, that's fine. I fly in DCS without any boosters myself, because DLSS 3 was still too blurry for me. Now I see a lot of advantages.

 

Btw. If you don't want to, don't use it. It's that simple, very simple. This is another post of yours in which you try to mix something up and which simply shows a lack of understanding of the subject.

 

Since we're talking about performance, something has to happen with the new IL-2 Korea, without this it is not a step into the future, but walking in place:

 

- Multiple thread support for CPU

- Multi Frame Generations and Frame Generations for GPU

- Support of DLSS 3 and 4 for GPU

 

Edited February 6 by YoYo

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Native image is bad because you always have jagged lines, you need something to make them disappear. 

Games do look worse without DLSS because DLSS help with jagged lines. FXAA is fast but make you image blurry,  without any details. It's like no AA. MSAA is adding details to a image , but is demanding to GPU  plus it misses some edges (for example textures with transparency). The best way to have perfect image is to use  DLDSR but this cost to much for modern game. 

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

2 hours ago, FuriousMeow said:

DCS needs all the performance help it can get. BoS doesn't for graphics. The only performance impact is the AI unit physics calculations in high density environments. DLSS won't do squat for that.

 

56 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Since we're talking about performance, something has to happen with the new IL-2 Korea, without this it is not a step into the future, but walking in place:

 

- Multiple thread support for CPU

- Multi Frame Generations and Frame Generations for GPU

- Support of DLSS 3 and 4 for GPU

 

 

This was easy to miss because it was a facebook link in the transport thread, but we got some good news on the AI units being optimized recently:

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

3 hours ago, FuriousMeow said:

There's plenty of YT videos showcasing why upscale sucks vs native.

Native sucks without AA. 

[T24_Martin]

Pro DLSS! Since DLSS 4 release DCS is a whole new game! I can't believe how sharp everything is, even fast moving objects. Sure, not perfect, but better then stuttering FPS. I can play DCS almost maxed with DFR (quality) and DLSS 4 (balanced) in fluid 90Hz. 

 

So definitely get DLSS into every VR game. Who doesn't like it, turn it off. Use TAA or DLAA. Hopefully we will get all the major AA options included, so that everyone can use what he likes.

[Charger_]

DLSS 4 has increased clarity and increased FPS in every game ive used it in.

 

Magic stuff

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

There are  DLSS presets and some are better  with elemination of TAA ghosting in moving objects but they add some artifacts, you can pick and check which gives most clean motion image.

[=SRS=SLaXOR]

+1 for support of DLSS4 in IL-2. It has completely transformed my experience in DCS. Interestingly, that DCS used to be on lower settings and less FPS than IL-2 (before DLSS support in DCS). Now DCS is running faster and giving much better picture on the same hardware (13600k+4080). Support for DLSS in DCS makes it give more FPS, then DLSS4 has made the picture stunning. To get approx similar picture quality I need to set MSA x4 or more in IL-2 which my hardware cannot provide 72PFS for my VR but give around 65 instead or less.

 

There is some ghosting in DCS with DLSS but I can forgive it and get used to it having the picture quality

Edited March 1 by =SRS=SLaXOR

[MucheokMr_Sukebe]

It's worth remembering that DLSS is now used to cover several elements of functionality, i.e.

• Upsampling
• Anti-aliasing (using DLAA)
• Frame gen (two types)

Prior to DLSS4, I found the upsampling to be awful in VR.  However, DLAA has always been awesome (at least in DCS).

DLSS4 has now made it really difficult in quality mode to spot that it's actually in use, even in VR, and I now happily use it

As I understand it, Frame Gen (neither type) works in VR.

 

So back to the initial request, yes please.  Give DLSS4 support to everything!

[YoYo]

17 hours ago, MucheokMr_Sukebe said:

As I understand it, Frame Gen (neither type) works in VR.

 

Correct.

[mazex]

On 2/6/2025 at 10:08 PM, T24_Martin said:

Pro DLSS! Since DLSS 4 release DCS is a whole new game! I can't believe how sharp everything is, even fast moving objects. Sure, not perfect, but better then stuttering FPS. I can play DCS almost maxed with DFR (quality) and DLSS 4 (balanced) in fluid 90Hz. 

 

So definitely get DLSS into every VR game. Who doesn't like it, turn it off. Use TAA or DLAA. Hopefully we will get all the major AA options included, so that everyone can use what he likes.

 

I completely agree. With DLSS 4 and preset K via Nvidia NPI it is mind blowing now in DCS. I have been doing VR since the first HTC Vive and now with a Pimax Crystal Light and it is finally possible to run VR with high settings, the Pimax render quality to high (big difference in finer details but lowers the FPS from 110 to 60-70 that is OK) and it is so sharp you get blown away... You can see individual trees along a road miles away and the ghosting is minimal. I had a neighbor over who is a fellow nerd with a bit older hardware and we concluded that this really is what we have been waiting for. There is actually not any need for higher resolution or details. You can read every small text in the cockpit better than IRL actually

 

But running IL2 on ultra settings and 70-90 fps with the crystal is really good as well. No need to lean forward to read the oil temp. It is sharper than a flat screen. As it is less demanding DLSS is actually not needed. But for Korea DLSS will probably be needed.

 

And yes - I am a lucky bastard that got hold of a 5080 that runs rock solid with a 300 Mhz overclock so the GPU runs at 3000 Mhz. And an AMD 9800X3D probably helps as well. 

 

Edited March 7 by mazex